EPTWhy not in WoL? D:
The next major balance patch - David Kim - Page 12
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BoB_KiLLeR
Spain620 Posts
Why not in WoL? D: | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 04 2012 09:54 BoB_KiLLeR wrote: "4. Nerf Infestor quite heavily" Why not in WoL? D: They said they were going to test infestor changes in HOTS first and then add them to WoL potentially if they were satisfied. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On December 04 2012 09:44 Blackfeather wrote: Lots of good thoughts, i like especially the starport-army, mechanic upgrade change and the hydra buff. I wished they would tweak sentry+gateway+colossus/ht a bit to something more balanced out and buff the carrier a bit (although buffing vr and nerfing infestor might make the carrier either viable or outclassed by the vr or tempest), but apart from that these thoughts are really promising. I hope they dont overdo it and the time will be enough. According to his ideas vr gets essentially 2 buffs (infestor change/nerf +buff), bio by the looks of it will get 2 buffs (medivac + not yet described) ultras will possibly get two buffs (all around-damage and tempest change/nerf) and while these are currently underused in the meta, taking care of not overbuffing them will take quite some time. i would prefer giving this to a unit that is not supposed to be countered by the immortal. Stripping armored from vikings and giving this to them might be interesting. Nah I dont think immortals are the big problem in tvp mech. The problem is that mech just cant kill stuff quickly enough to diminish the very high dps of the protoss army (zealots, immortals, feedback, storms, colossus, blink stalkers). So the protoss army has time to deal its deadly damage, roflstomping the mech army. Tanks fire slowly and do rubbish damage, vs archons + immortals they are almost worthless. Hellbats deal with the zealots yes, but get roflstomped by everything else. Thors get feedbacked to oblivion and get roflstomped by zealots and immortals. Plus they take a while to do the "lift weapon and fire" animation which allows even more dps from the protoss. So essentially terran needs a way of killing stuff faster with the above units. Archons and immortals can get dealt with EMP, athough mass Archon is a huge pain. So if the siege tanks deal with the armored units much better, it allows the hellbats to have some worthwhile backup and they can both work in synergy. Of course backed by a handful of ghosts with emp for the immortals. Which is why i think haywire missiles on tanks would be a good option to look into. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On December 04 2012 03:49 Grapefruit wrote: Lol, I wish he didn't take me so seriously.Sorry, but you are the kind of person that drags the community down. This is the first time EVER Blizzard is really trying to change something really HUGE. What we're looking at here is a potential flip of the entire meta-game. This shit is exiting as fuck and all you have to say is some fucking preemptive balance whine. When I see a new idea, I always look at things that might not work. I guess that's my bad. Anyway those aren't exactly surprising changes and "potential flip in the entire meta-game"?, hell even +2 range queen do that. No reason to get that excited, blizzard tries a lot of different stuff and might not implement everything, like we saw in the last balance test map. Mine questions stands. I wish people wouldn't see balance whining everywhere. There is still long way ahead and I'm pretty sure blizz won't mess up big time. It's a concern and why do I post it? Because maybe some people know where blizz is heading and maybe there are already things that make it different from WoL, but I just don't play beta so I don't see it. | ||
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Scila
Canada1849 Posts
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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On December 04 2012 09:54 BoB_KiLLeR wrote: "4. Nerf Infestor quite heavily" Why not in WoL? D: Starcraft II: Balance sold separately. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
"I will stop world hunger! I will fix the Economy! I will make eveyone live forever! I will ensure every children around the world get a free copy of starcraft 2!" He just saying that is the plan which is good but he probably isnt 100% sure how to accomplish this. The only one that interests me heavily is the vechicle and air upgrade but that one wont go through and the infestor nerf was obvious. | ||
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DeathPengu
Taiwan137 Posts
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Crawdad
614 Posts
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Twilight Sparkle
Australia235 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:59 Big G wrote: - don't know why they never considered to make the Reaper a T3 bio unit. Balancing it for the early game has always been a nightmare, so just redesign it to buff bio late game. I'm interested in this idea. How would you personally make reapers a T3 unit? On December 04 2012 10:11 SheaR619 wrote: Honestly it good to hear that we all are looking eye to eye here but he didnt go details, it like a politician saying- "I will stop world hunger! I will fix the Economy! I will make eveyone live forever! I will ensure every children around the world get a free copy of starcraft 2!" He just saying that is the plan which is good but he probably isnt 100% sure how to accomplish this. The only one that interests me heavily is the vechicle and air upgrade but that one wont go through and the infestor nerf was obvious. Problem is, prior to this point Blizzard hasn't even been doing that. They've oh-so-conservatively considered a couple of weird infestor changes and admitted that maybe, just maybe, there might be some teeeeensy-weensy issues with game balance but winrates are 50/50 guys so stop complaining. This is the first time I can remember that Blizz have come out and said that yes, balance is wickedy-wack, we're going to make a whole bunch of changes to fix it. Not only that, but most of the changes, in concept at least, seem pretty good. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:11 SheaR619 wrote: Honestly it good to hear that we all are looking eye to eye here but he didnt go details, it like a politician saying- "I will stop world hunger! I will fix the Economy! I will make eveyone live forever! I will ensure every children around the world get a free copy of starcraft 2!" He just saying that is the plan which is good but he probably isnt 100% sure how to accomplish this. The only one that interests me heavily is the vechicle and air upgrade but that one wont go through and the infestor nerf was obvious. I think your analogy is pretty unfair...the proper analogy would be David Kim saying "we're going to balance all the races, we're going to make PvT more varied and interesting, and we're going to make micro challenging but rewarding, as well as adding in a bunch of really new, groundbreaking units with great spells". *That's* vague. Maybe you'd be justified with comparing *that* to your "everyone will live forever" quote. Here David Kim is specifically mentioning what units he wants to change, what abilities he wants to remove, and what upgrades he wants to have altered or even combined. Its as specific as is reasonably possible at this point. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
This upsets the lore and cultural balance of the races. Terran was the race that HAS to specialize. Air-mechs-infantry simulating the RL branches of any country's military. The equipment needs for an Air Force are radically different with Army Rangers, for example. The Terran player was well rewarded for 3/3 for in any two branches. 3/3 marine+tank, 3/3 Viking+siege tank, Thor+banshee, etc They nerfed all these comps and now need to merge the major cultural backbone of the Terran race? Well-played DK, well played. Now we are playing Protoss with different skins (upgrade wise) What's next, zealots that stim? | ||
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Extenz
Italy822 Posts
On December 04 2012 08:49 KovuTalli wrote: If this happens, this makes me so so happy as a Terran player, especially the Armory buff, altho I feel they will up the cost, hopefully not the research time tho. Also been crying out for a medivac speed boost since it got nerfed. I could understand the accelleration nerf so you cant just fly out super fast at the first sign of trouble, but the fact stalkers can amove moving medivacs down across the map has always annoyed me. stalkers don't chase down medivacs on a move, you need to stop and insta move again micro, and the medivac will eventually outrun them. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25090 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:20 radscorpion9 wrote: I think your analogy is pretty unfair...the proper analogy would be David Kim saying "we're going to balance all the races, we're going to make PvT more varied and interesting, and we're going to make micro challenging but rewarding, as well as adding in a bunch of really new, groundbreaking units with great spells". *That's* vague. Maybe you'd be justified with comparing *that* to your "everyone will live forever" quote. Here David Kim is specifically mentioning what units he wants to change, what abilities he wants to remove, and what upgrades he wants to have altered or even combined. Its as specific as is reasonably possible at this point. Yeah I mean, in the case of Terran changes it's all about 'buffs'. At least with the Protoss ones you can kind of see a theme, and I think making air play better will allow more flexibility in Protoss transitions which can only be good (if there's not some broken build that's possible now) | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25090 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:29 Extenz wrote: stalkers don't chase down medivacs on a move, you need to stop and insta move again micro, and the medivac will eventually outrun them. Nono, 'Protoss A-move' is what I get on ladder when I do that lol | ||
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Onlinejaguar
Australia2823 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:07 Scila wrote: Good changes but Zerg gets to continue winning everything until Hots. So much undeserved money going to Patchzergs over this past year, really feel bad for those Terran and Protoss pro players. Yeh it feels a little like zergs are just building up to the same late game army in all 3 matchups. If blizz can stop this being the case in HOTS it would be great. | ||
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Riquiz
Netherlands402 Posts
More buffing, less nerfing ! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25090 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:24 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: I'm miffed that air and ground upgrades are merged. This upsets the lore and cultural balance of the races. Terran was the race that HAS to specialize. Air-mechs-infantry simulating the RL branches of any country's military. The equipment needs for an Air Force are radically different with Army Rangers, for example. The Terran player was well rewarded for 3/3 for in any two branches. 3/3 marine+tank, 3/3 Viking+siege tank, Thor+banshee, etc They nerfed all these comps and now need to merge the major cultural backbone of the Terran race? Well-played DK, well played. Now we are playing Protoss with different skins (upgrade wise) What's next, zealots that stim? You can't keep the specialisation, which I like, but make certain Terran transitions smooth enough to make styles viable. Apparently according to others this is one of the issues with mech. It's not that you can't work out a really sick build with it all worked in, but you can't do some of this stuff reactively, on the fly in an efficient manner. I mean Marine/Tank is a basic style, but has advantages inherent in its flow. Going Dual Engis for Bio upgrades, timing your armory for 2/2, and using the armoury just for tank attack kind of suits the overall style and gameplan. Yeah you can refine all of this to a really high level, but there's a kind of basic pattern too that it's easy for a scrub to follow. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:32 Onlinejaguar wrote: Yeh it feels a little like zergs are just building up to the same late game army in all 3 matchups. If blizz can stop this being the case in HOTS it would be great. lol guess you guys missed the first 1.5+ years of domination by terran. Poo hoo don't dominate for 6 months and worst thing ever. Again though blizzard did say they would mess with infestors first in hots and then put it in WoL. So WoL will get it eventually just not till blizzard is satisfied with how they feel in HoTs or w/e since nobody tests balance changes very much in WoL hots is the best thing for them. | ||
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
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