The title should say "Compiled list of stated possible upcoming WOL unit changes" but it didn't fit. Sorted by race. Feel free to propose possible solutions.
I included a link to any sources I can find. Tell me if I missed something.
Thor
I agree. That [250mm strike] cannon is not awesome. We will put some effort towards new ideas for that ability.
Second example is Thor's 250mm Cannons, very few players use it. So HOTS is a good chance for us, and we may redesign it to make more players use 250mm cannon.
We'll take a look at the Raven. I agree, it would be cool to see more of them and there might be some balance or design changes we could do to improve the unit.
I can't promise what is going to be changed. In next few weeks we will go through the units in WOL and decide either just adjust them or redesign them. For example, raven's seeker missile.
Another way we are currently thinking is to change the medviac so that it can heal both bio AND mechanic through different healing mechanism. Also we are thinking of preventing hellbats to change back to hellions. The change in armor types during transformation is an issue that needs more research.
We are seeing great improvement in the beta. Reapers will be much more viable in TvT or TvZ early game. If we believe the units are still being underused, we are willing to make it stronger. We are trying to make them more viable units for harassment.
There is no doubt that Carriers need to be buffed. We are still afraid that carriers being used as "a-move" units in pro level play. Therefore we are only considering to add minor buffs to it. We are thinking of making interceptors immune to Infestor's fungal growth.
However, we are focusing on the general metagame trend of the game so I believe it is too early for us decide how they will be changed. We saw a video posted by a foreign progamer comparing the Carriers from BW and WoL. We believe that we could use some of the suggestions provided in this video.
Currently not as worried about Carrier as much as the new HotS units, but extra special thanks to Nony's video, we're thinking on 2 possibilities in the future:
leashing thing Interceptor launching thing
But let's try to focus on HotS if we can. -Dayvie, from the pro forum (I think we're aloud to post this stuff?)
We will be looking some at the Void Ray soonish. I don't know what if anything we will decide to do with him but your feedback on this unit has certainly been heard.
For void ray, do you mean it's too weak? However many people complains it's too strong before last patch. I want to do something crazy to void ray, but we know nothing about how to do it now. We may try something before Christmas.
We ran out of time, but after the interview, he told us there were changes planned for Void Ray, Phoenix, and Mutalisk. It’s unclear if these will be for WoL or HotS, but most likely will be HotS only.
Our goal with this unit is described well by Phantom. The main purpose for this unit is definitely to deal with mass colossi in PvP as well as to force an engagement vs. Zerg who is sitting back being on the defensive with mass Infestors/Broodlords. We eventually want to phase out Vortex a bit once we are sure Tempests are working well.
I want to be as clear as I can on our current position of the Infestor in Wings of Liberty.
- We are not going to make any changes before BWC. - We are going to continue to watch games and gather data. - We will discuss changes. - We may try a balance map sometime after BWC. - We may try some changes in Swarm Beta, using that as a test-bed for stuff we could bring back into Wings of Liberty.
At this time I could see these as possible outcomes: - We nerf Infested Terrans, Fungal Growth or both. - We make a change to the Infestor (hit points, movement speed, etc.). - We do a change to how the unit is designed (add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, increase the visibility of burrowed units while they are moving, etc.). - We buff some of the potential counters (EMP, Feedback). - We do a combination of any of the above. - We see something that makes us decide that doing nothing is the right answer. Obviously if this occurs we would share this data or reasoning.
For those of you who believe that this is too slow a response, I am sorry.
Currently the most widely discussed unit is BL - Infestor combination.If the dominance is present in both ZvP and ZvT, we are willing to reduce the range the fungal growth or reduce the radius. If this is only applicable to ZvP, we are willing to buff carriers by making interceptors immune to fungal growth. However, we still think that BL-Infestor composition isn't a big deal.
-David Kim Note: Browder's quote is more recent than Kim's quote.
We are going to make a balance test map on WOL realms. On this map, Psionic units will be immune to [Fungal Growth]. On HOTS BETA, we are going to add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, just like we did in patch 1.3 PTR.
[What about infested terrans?] That's really troublesome, and really hard to balance. We'll have to think about it somemore.
For Zerg though, we're currently thinking it would be cool if core tier 2 tech options are Hydralisks (with speed upgrade at lair), Mutalisks (with buffs possible speed and/or acceleration). Core tier 3 options will still be same Broods/Ultras. And we can phase out Infestors a bit by nerfing them.
For Zerg though, we're currently thinking it would be cool if core tier 2 tech options are Hydralisks (with speed upgrade at lair), Mutalisks (with buffs possible speed and/or acceleration). Core tier 3 options will still be same Broods/Ultras. And we can phase out Infestors a bit by nerfing them.
There are some easy things we can do and there are some hard things. If we study the game, for example, you would say that the corruptor is lame. Don't get us wrong; they're useful. If there are a lot of colossi, you need corruptors. If there are dark templars, you need overseers. They have a battle function for a situation, but what new battle strategies and tactics do they add in the game? Compare the [corruptors and overseers] to the mutalisks; a player can raid, harass. They can get board control; they can decimate opponents without antiair. Party, right? Having those guys around changes the match. Corruptors? Meh. You build colossi, I build corruptors; end of story.
There are some units we can upgrade wholesale or remove and replace with something better. That's one easy way to give better gameplay without giving so many options you don't know what's going on while also not compromising balance.
We have decided to keep the overseer and make the viper a pure caster. We will be taking a look at the overseer to see what we can do to make his abilities more interesting.
On November 14 2012 05:20 People_0f_Color wrote: Weren't there conversations about them changing nydus canals? Possibly by introducing more types of worms. What ever happened to that?
I wonder if an option to buff hard/soft counters to Infestors should be a pick in the poll for infestor changes. For example, since Carriers could be an infestor/BL counter a change to them would also affect my answer to "should the infestor be changed?". Just a thought.
Nice post. If Blizzard doesn't fix Thor and Raven there really is no point to be buying HOTS or playing Terran anymore. Our late game needs serious help.
On November 14 2012 05:34 K_osss wrote: I wonder if an option to buff hard/soft counters to Infestors should be a pick in the poll for infestor changes. For example, since Carriers could be an infestor/BL counter a change to them would also affect my answer to "should the infestor be changed?". Just a thought.
I would like to see the mothership changed but if they "phase out" vortex I'm curious what effect that will have on it. I would think they'd need to give it some more utility. I don't know would people build it if it lost vortex or vortex wasn't as useful without some buff to compensate? Yeah I realize it's got cloaking field and mass recall and yes those are sweet but vortex is WHY it's built primarily in PvZ and I don't see alot of them in PvP.
i´m gonna switch to T for sure if T and P get more units than Z in the Z expansion AND they get all their units fixed while infestor gets nerfed and most other zerg units keep sucking. i wouldnt be surprised if hydras, ultras, nydus, burrowmovement, dropplay, SHs, corruptor, overseer arent buffed/changed any more.
was there anything they mentioned about the above units/mechanics being fixed from blizzards side?
I hope they try some more interesting ways to nerf FG than just lowering its range or radius.
I suggest allowing "movement" abilities to be used while fungalled. For instance, blink, burrow, unsiege, load transport, etc...
I'd also suggest making burrowed units impervious to FG, which might make for more interesting Roach-Infestor engagements, since you could burrow-move away, or burrow-move towards the enemy.
I think raven, VR and infestor revamps are the most important ones. The first two are just silly and awkward to use and the infestor is way too massable for a caster.
The rest of the units listed don't need to change in a fundamental manner imo, maybe slight buffs are in order but not much else.
On November 14 2012 06:26 cnaphan wrote: I hope they try some more interesting ways to nerf FG than just lowering its range or radius.
I suggest allowing "movement" abilities to be used while fungalled. For instance, blink, burrow, unsiege, load transport, etc...
I'd also suggest making burrowed units impervious to FG, which might make for more interesting Roach-Infestor engagements, since you could burrow-move away, or burrow-move towards the enemy.
Yeah here's hoping its not just a straight-up nerf and something more creative. I'd really hate to see infestors stop getting utilized.
I'm surprised how lopsided most of the polls are towards changing WoL units. I knew people weren't that happy with WoL... but wow.
One thing though, where the heck is the talk of the Colossus from Blizzard? That has to be the single most hated unit in WoL, both from a gameplay and spectator standpoint. They don't even seem like they're aware it's an issue. Perhaps it's just not one of the big issues with all the recent Infestor talk.
On November 14 2012 05:53 Decendos wrote: i´m gonna switch to T for sure if T and P get more units than Z in the Z expansion AND they get all their units fixed while infestor gets nerfed and most other zerg units keep sucking. i wouldnt be surprised if hydras, ultras, nydus, burrowmovement, dropplay, SHs, corruptor, overseer arent buffed/changed any more.
was there anything they mentioned about the above units/mechanics being fixed from blizzards side?
On November 14 2012 06:48 TrickyGilligan wrote: I'm surprised how lopsided most of the polls are towards changing WoL units. I knew people weren't that happy with WoL... but wow.
One thing though, where the heck is the talk of the Colossus from Blizzard? That has to be the single most hated unit in WoL, both from a gameplay and spectator standpoint. They don't even seem like they're aware it's an issue. Perhaps it's just not one of the big issues with all the recent Infestor talk.
I can't find any statements about the Colossus. They were the most hated unit until recently
Poll: The official most hated unit by TL is...
Infestor (313)
74%
Colossus (111)
26%
424 total votes
Your vote: The official most hated unit by TL is...
On November 14 2012 09:23 GARcher wrote: Brood War Zerg AA is much more interesting because of the Devourer Mutaslisk combo.
I don't recall a single pro game where the went Devourers. It's always Mutalisk-Scourage.
Once you hit a critical mass of around 12 BCs or Corsairs, Scourge are useless.
But still, Devourers are extremely rare in pro BW. BCs in TvZ are extremely rare. I've almost never seen Devourers used in a pro PvZ aside from Stork vs GGplay.
I personally see the sentry + FF as more damaging than the colossus, but if the colossus is nerfed that may uncover the stupidity that is FF and th weak ness of the gateway unit so that may turn out well...
On November 14 2012 09:23 GARcher wrote: Brood War Zerg AA is much more interesting because of the Devourer Mutaslisk combo.
I don't recall a single pro game where the went Devourers. It's always Mutalisk-Scourage.
Once you hit a critical mass of around 12 BCs or Corsairs, Scourge are useless.
But still, Devourers are extremely rare in pro BW. BCs in TvZ are extremely rare. I've almost never seen Devourers used in a pro PvZ aside from Stork vs GGplay.
The community didn't have a chance to ask for change in original SC. In fact there were many bad units in BW that were rarely used.
Wow, i did not know about that at all... what the heck do we need the tempest for if we change the carrier back? XD
This would also keep viking vs carrier from being boring, since there is micro involved with trying to mess up the carrier's leash and such. Right now viking vs tempest is pretty boring, just kiting or chasing.
And tempest and carrier seem to overlap... so if this tempest stays as this unit that deals with infestor/BL, then what will they do with the carrier? Remove it? They said they're considering changing the carriers but want to focus on HotS units (or does he mean he wants the players to focus on giving feedback on the HotS units, since they've already shared their thoughts on the Carrier) I hope it's the latter, because if they make the tempest a boring unit but deals with infestor/BL, that would suck, cus then carrier isn't really needed.
On November 14 2012 13:03 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: I finally watched Nony's carrier video.
Wow, i did not know about that at all... what the heck do we need the tempest for if we change the carrier back? XD
This would also keep viking vs carrier from being boring, since there is micro involved with trying to mess up the carrier's leash and such. Right now viking vs tempest is pretty boring, just kiting or chasing.
And tempest and carrier seem to overlap... so if this tempest stays as this unit that deals with infestor/BL, then what will they do with the carrier? Remove it? They said they're considering changing the carriers but want to focus on HotS units (or does he mean he wants the players to focus on giving feedback on the HotS units, since they've already shared their thoughts on the Carrier) I hope it's the latter, because if they make the tempest a boring unit but deals with infestor/BL, that would suck, cus then carrier isn't really needed.
Protoss right now lacks an air superiority unit that is not a capital ship. Tempest and Voidrays are probably a poor attempt at filling that gap.
Medivac changes would be great depending on the mechanic and how efficient the healing is. Mech is already starved for supply so this healing must be efficient to justify medivac's 2 supply. Probably will cost resources to repair.
It sounds very exciting though and will allow for better hellbats (with no bio tag) and better bio-mech mix compositions!
Personally I would like something to be done to Battlecruisers so that they can be more viable as a late game tech switch in cases other than for breaking siege lines...
Updated OP with new statements regarding Thor, Raven, Void Ray, and Infestors.
Q: You said the new units in HOTS are pretty good now, and you are going to make some change to some old units. Do you have any plans about changing the old units in WOL? I'm interested about raven, void ray, carrier, especially infestor.
A: I can't promise what is going to be changed. In next few weeks we will go through the units in WOL and decide either just adjust them or redesign them. For example, raven's seeker missile.
Second example is Thor's 250mm Cannons, very few players use it. So HOTS is a good chance for us, and we may redesign it to make more players use 250mm cannon.
For void ray, do you mean it's too weak? However many people complains it's too strong before last patch. I want to do something crazy to void ray, but we know nothing about how to do it now. We may try something before Christmas.
From my personal point of view, I expect redesign. So I would encourage my team to do some revolutionary change to increase the diversity of strategies.
Q : You forgot the infestor(LOL).
A: Oh, I forgot it. But no matter, I will tell you. We are going to make a balance test map on WOL realms. On this map, Psionic units will be immune to Neural Parasite. On HOTS BETA, we are going to add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, just like we did in patch 1.3 PTR.
(Psionic units, include mothership, high templar, ghost, infestor, queen and archon. MC used to complain about mothership can be mind controled by infestors, and this problem may be solved as he wish.)
love it. now they can fix archon toilet since no more neural on MS + tempest + timewarp are more than enough to fight BL infestor. only thing i disagree is making fungal a projectile again:
if its as slow as in the video the already borderline OP blinkstalker will be broken, if its superfast nothing will change. they should change fungal to a slow and nerf IT damage.
and no buff to hydras and ultras mentioned and nothing to make SHs and viper less expensive? also BC, carrier, FF, vortex changes? hope they give some info about those units also in the next weeks.
On November 18 2012 01:40 SarcasmMonster wrote: A: I can't promise what is going to be changed. In next few weeks we will go through the units in WOL and decide either just adjust them or redesign them. For example, raven's seeker missile.
Second example is Thor's 250mm Cannons, very few players use it. So HOTS is a good chance for us, and we may redesign it to make more players use 250mm cannon.
That's a little worrisome. If this isn't just a small preview then the whole 'redesign' may turn out to be just a few stat tweaks to abilities.
We are going to make a balance test map on WOL realms. On this map, Psionic units will be immune to Neural Parasite. On HOTS BETA, we are going to add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, just like we did in patch 1.3 PTR.
Meh. Im strongly against nerfing neural parasite at all. Its already been nerfed to shit apart from neuraling the mothership occasionally. So I really dont understand this idea.
We are going to make a balance test map on WOL realms. On this map, Psionic units will be immune to Neural Parasite. On HOTS BETA, we are going to add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, just like we did in patch 1.3 PTR.
Meh. Im strongly against nerfing neural parasite at all. Its already been nerfed to shit apart from neuraling the mothership occasionally. So I really dont understand this idea.
yeah it would be much easier to just give MS frenzy.
Still disappointed that they aren't even talking about the collosi, i mean It's obvious the community as a whole doesn't like it they way it is now. I just feels it's getting sidestepped and forgotten because of other issues, i guess that's alright but i want to see something change before HOTS comes out!
On November 18 2012 03:11 Zorgaz wrote: Still disappointed that they aren't even talking about the collosi, i mean It's obvious the community as a whole doesn't like it they way it is now. I just feels it's getting sidestepped and forgotten because of other issues, i guess that's alright but i want to see something change before HOTS comes out!
Blizz seem more concerned fixing underused units/abilites than the boring but useful units.
I'm really not sure the thor change needs to be done, becasue if the Terran gets just a whole shitload of them with tanks, they are a fucking pain to kill and giving them energy means at least with FB you can half there health... though I'm really not sure they need to be made in TvP mech anyway :/
On November 18 2012 04:40 baldgye wrote: I'm really not sure the thor change needs to be done
Mech TvP changes need to be done as otherwise Blizzard will have failed at the only job they set for themselves with terran. 250mm cannon alone can't make mech viable (at least not without making it massively overpowered) but may be a step in the right direction. The real question is weather they are actually trying to make new strategies and compositions work or just buff rarely used abilities and call it a redesign.
Dustin Browder said Also we are thinking of preventing hellbats to change back to hellions. The change in armor types during transformation is an issue that needs more research.
Wait, what? Is he saying, "fuck this whole 'battle hellion' concept. Let's just have hellions and firebats seperately"?
For void ray, do you mean it's too weak? However many people complains it's too strong before last patch. I want to do something crazy to void ray, but we know nothing about how to do it now. We may try something before Christmas.
From my personal point of view, I expect redesign. So I would encourage my team to do some revolutionary change to increase the diversity of strategies.
The Void Ray is just a poorly and lazily designed unit and its problems stem from that, however this wasn't always the case. It's development history really shows what happened to it. It was originally a Khalai Protoss unit, a big bruiser that replaced the Carrier as the Protoss T3 endgame air unit. The DT contribution to Stargate was the original Tempest (the mini-Carrier). When fans got Blizzard to bring the Carrier back, the Tempest had to leave and Blizzard needed to have a new DT unit in SG, and that became the Void Ray, which got a color change, model size reduction, and various stat alterations (mostly less health, food and cost), although the lore comment about it eventually replacing the Carrier in the Toss fleet is a backhanded way of referencing its former position.
Since the damage of the Void Ray is backended with its charge mechanic it becomes incredibly better the longer its in the fight. There is another type of unit like that, AOE units. The longer an AOE unit can stay in a fight, the more units it can splash letting it deal exponentially more damage. However, unlike a VR, an AOE unit has front loaded damage, meaning they improve the more of them you have and the more upgrades you have on them. For VRs, this is actually the opposite, the more there are the harder it becomes to charge, and the more upgrades you have the less likely they are to charge up as well.
For the charge up mechanic to work, the VR needs to be an endurance unit rather than a "surgical strike craft" as designated by Blizzard. When the VR was a Khalai unit, and a T3 Carrier replacement at that, it could be a unit with a ton of health so that it could endure a battle, but as a DT unit, the VR is not supposed to be an endurance unit capable of eating tons of damage, so Blizzard has worked on evening out its damage to try and make it more useful and even took away its former base 1 armor. If Blizzard doesn't want to give the VR some ability to allow it to out last most opposition then they're going to need to further increase its damage, which will make it trend towards being OP. It's not a happy position. The other option would be to change the way charging works to make the VR front loaded damage, however this would then conflict with the new Oracle.
In the spirit of the thread, I'm leaving my suggestions in spoilers so those would would care to read can, and those who don't can just skip over them.
I'd suggest making the Prismatic Beams ability a cooldown instead of a passive. Like Toss shields the VR needs to not have been attacking anything for a certain amount of time for the ability to start coming off cooldown (charging up), however unlike regular cooldown abilities, as long as there is any amount of time available on the VR it can use the charged beam for that amount of time. An example with numbers would be like, if the VR doesn't attack something for 10 seconds Prismatic Beams begins charging. Prismatic Beams can have a maximum charge of 30 seconds. For each second the ability has charged, the VR can use Prismatic Beams for 2 seconds (1 min max of continuous charged damage).
The simplest thing would be to give the VR more health or a researchable ability that allows it to reduce damage, however this runs the risk of making the VR too similar to a flying Immortal. Instead I'd suggest a damage reflection skill. The ability would reflect all damage done to the VR back to the unit that dealt that damage, leaving the VR unharmed. This would give the VR a faux-AOE ability letting it be useful against swarms of units (i.e. Marines) and counter spellcasters by reflecting their abilities (i.e. Infestors).
monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely.
monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely.
That makes even less sense. Maybe it was supposed to say that massive units are not to be affected by fungal?
On November 18 2012 14:56 SarcasmMonster wrote: IMPORTANT: About that last update
monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely.
That makes even less sense. Maybe it was supposed to say that massive units are not to be affected by fungal?
Yeah, but I'm excited about more changes to the Infestor. Neural is rarely used, it deserves to be looked at or replaced.
On November 18 2012 14:56 SarcasmMonster wrote: IMPORTANT: About that last update
monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely.
That makes even less sense. Maybe it was supposed to say that massive units are not to be affected by fungal?
Psionic units are the Sentry, High Templar, Dark Templar, Archon, Warp Prism, Mothership, Ghost, Queen, Infestor. So maybe their reasoning is so that Z can still fungal Colossi, but not Archons and Mothership? This would also buff WP harassment a little.
On November 18 2012 14:56 SarcasmMonster wrote: IMPORTANT: About that last update
monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely.
That makes even less sense. Maybe it was supposed to say that massive units are not to be affected by fungal?
No, psionic units will not be affected by fungal making it so that it actually has a counter.
On November 18 2012 14:56 SarcasmMonster wrote: IMPORTANT: About that last update
monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely.
That makes even less sense. Maybe it was supposed to say that massive units are not to be affected by fungal?
Psionic units are the Sentry, High Templar, Dark Templar, Archon, Warp Prism, Mothership, Ghost, Queen, Infestor. So maybe their reasoning is so that Z can still fungal Colossi, but not Archons and Mothership? This would also buff WP harassment a little.
How much difference unfungable archons can make? If anything it's the sentries that will be most affected making sniping with chain-fungals impossible. And all that will do is make immortal/sentry more powerful.
On November 18 2012 14:56 SarcasmMonster wrote: IMPORTANT: About that last update
monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely.
That makes even less sense. Maybe it was supposed to say that massive units are not to be affected by fungal?
Psionic units are the Sentry, High Templar, Dark Templar, Archon, Warp Prism, Mothership, Ghost, Queen, Infestor. So maybe their reasoning is so that Z can still fungal Colossi, but not Archons and Mothership? This would also buff WP harassment a little.
How much difference unfungable archons can make? If anything it's the sentries that will be most affected making sniping with chain-fungals impossible. And all that will do is make immortal/sentry more powerful.
A lot, since counters to Archons are Roaches with Infestors, Roaches have 1 more range than Archons, and with Fungal you just destroy them. With them being unaffected by Fungal, we might see again Zealots with Archons and HTs in PvZ. And everything that can't be affected by Fungal anymore will get serious buff.
Fungal not hitting psionic sounds like a lame joke to me. This effectively means that zerg can't touch protoss army before broodlords are out. Warp prism will need corruptors or mutalisks and this really hurts (warp prism harrass can come way before the usual spire timing so zergs are compelled to painfully spend 200 200 only to counter a low cost unit). Sentries will be even stronger (maybe they thought they weren't important enough?) since z won't be able to kill them until they are out of force fields. Also it is to note that all this comes while Browder says that sentry-immortal all-in does not require any fixes (while , in reality, it's exactly like in morrow's thread).
I do agree a small nerf should hit infestors but surely not the one that would make already borderline op units stronger nor cheap units very cost effective.
I think it would be better to give Fungal diminishing returns then to just up and make a unit type immune (although I'm fine with Interceptors being rendered immune to Fungal). Make it so that units affected by Fungal gain a Spore marker, like the Acid Spores the Devourer had. Each Spore (max of 2) reduces the amount of time that Fungal roots the target by 1 second (damage will still occur over the entire spell time). The Spores expire 2 seconds after the Fungal that granted them does. Chain Fungaling can still be done, but at greater cost to the Zerg. If instead the Zerg player wants to let the Spores expire, then the opposing player has gained a small window to do something to mitigate the incoming Fungal.
On November 21 2012 01:02 Karpfen wrote: Fungal not hitting psionic sounds like a lame joke to me. This effectively means that zerg can't touch protoss army before broodlords are out. Warp prism will need corruptors or mutalisks and this really hurts (warp prism harrass can come way before the usual spire timing so zergs are compelled to painfully spend 200 200 only to counter a low cost unit). Sentries will be even stronger (maybe they thought they weren't important enough?) since z won't be able to kill them until they are out of force fields. Also it is to note that all this comes while Browder says that sentry-immortal all-in does not require any fixes (while , in reality, it's exactly like in morrow's thread).
I do agree a small nerf should hit infestors but surely not the one that would make already borderline op units stronger nor cheap units very cost effective.
Seems like an ugly way to try to balance it to me...just too brute force of a method.
On November 21 2012 11:47 xPrimuSx wrote: I think it would be better to give Fungal diminishing returns then to just up and make a unit type immune (although I'm fine with Interceptors being rendered immune to Fungal). Make it so that units affected by Fungal gain a Spore marker, like the Acid Spores the Devourer had. Each Spore (max of 2) reduces the amount of time that Fungal roots the target by 1 second (damage will still occur over the entire spell time). The Spores expire 2 seconds after the Fungal that granted them does. Chain Fungaling can still be done, but at greater cost to the Zerg. If instead the Zerg player wants to let the Spores expire, then the opposing player has gained a small window to do something to mitigate the incoming Fungal.
That solves chain fungaling, but that's only half the problem. Imo it would be better just to have fungal start out as root and have the effect wear off as the spell goes on.
IMO colossus and siege tanks should be next in line to get some good looks by the balance team. Doubt it happens though. Also, couldnt they have just made fungal a projectile and reduced the strength of infested terrans? I could see the psionic change zerg even worse in mid-game.
I don't think "immunity" will be the final balance decision, I think "immunity" will be just to test how much Fungal Growth plays a roll in the ZvP and ZvT match ups and whether or not Zerg can live without it. It's more likely they'll experiment with increasing the range of Feedback and EMP or decreasing the range of Fungal Growth so the counters to Infestors, High Templars and Ghosts, don't have to A-move into Fungal Growth range before they can cast their equivalent spells.
If they decreased the range of Fungal Growth, made fungal growth a projectile and replaced the snare with a slow it'd be a much more micro intensive ability with a clear counter. Making Psionic immune to Fungal Growth is just really shitty game design, I just shook my head when Dustin Browder said they'd make Psionic immune to Fungal Growth but it'd be "weird" if they made Interceptors immune to Fungal Growth, they have some pretty ass backwards standards at Blizzard.
On November 18 2012 14:56 SarcasmMonster wrote: IMPORTANT: About that last update
monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely.
That makes even less sense. Maybe it was supposed to say that massive units are not to be affected by fungal?
Psionic units are the Sentry, High Templar, Dark Templar, Archon, Warp Prism, Mothership, Ghost, Queen, Infestor. So maybe their reasoning is so that Z can still fungal Colossi, but not Archons and Mothership? This would also buff WP harassment a little.
It´s not going to be just a little. Warp prisms cannot be caught with infestor anymore, but more importantly Dark Templar will likely not get revealed by Fungal. I have no idea how strong this is going to be, but it sounds strong to me.
On November 21 2012 11:47 xPrimuSx wrote: I think it would be better to give Fungal diminishing returns then to just up and make a unit type immune (although I'm fine with Interceptors being rendered immune to Fungal). Make it so that units affected by Fungal gain a Spore marker, like the Acid Spores the Devourer had. Each Spore (max of 2) reduces the amount of time that Fungal roots the target by 1 second (damage will still occur over the entire spell time). The Spores expire 2 seconds after the Fungal that granted them does. Chain Fungaling can still be done, but at greater cost to the Zerg. If instead the Zerg player wants to let the Spores expire, then the opposing player has gained a small window to do something to mitigate the incoming Fungal.
That solves chain fungaling, but that's only half the problem. Imo it would be better just to have fungal start out as root and have the effect wear off as the spell goes on.
Well chain fungaling is the main problem. A skill like Fungal that roots a target for 4 seconds and does half the damage of Storm isn't anything major, its strong certainly, but not game breaking. The issue with Fungal is that you can use it to lock units in place permanently, or at least until the Zerg runs out of energy/the units die. Without chain fungals, the opposing player actually has the chance to respond, which is really all I think needs to happen.
Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
On November 23 2012 23:38 XxJuicexX wrote: Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
Burrow Charge is nothing like the Zealot Charge, which is mindless ability that has auto-cast. They also had the speed upgrade, then they removed it and gave it speed upgrade by default, don't see how is this a problem.
On November 23 2012 23:38 XxJuicexX wrote: Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
Burrow Charge is nothing like the Zealot Charge, which is mindless ability that has auto-cast. They also had the speed upgrade, then they removed it and gave it speed upgrade by default, don't see how is this a problem.
Speed upgrade by default? The ultralisk moves the same as it did in WOL. The charge ability is the same crap as burrow charge; just that you go under ground. Stop trying to wish that HOTS is something else.
On November 23 2012 23:38 XxJuicexX wrote: Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
Burrow Charge is nothing like the Zealot Charge, which is mindless ability that has auto-cast. They also had the speed upgrade, then they removed it and gave it speed upgrade by default, don't see how is this a problem.
Speed upgrade by default? The ultralisk moves the same as it did in WOL. The charge ability is the same crap as burrow charge; just that you go under ground. Stop trying to wish that HOTS is something else.
Zealot Charge: -Auto cast ability -Attacks nearest enemy -Blocked by friendly unit collision
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I'm sorry, but you really couldn't be more wrong lol.
On November 23 2012 23:38 XxJuicexX wrote: Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
Burrow Charge is nothing like the Zealot Charge, which is mindless ability that has auto-cast. They also had the speed upgrade, then they removed it and gave it speed upgrade by default, don't see how is this a problem.
Speed upgrade by default? The ultralisk moves the same as it did in WOL. The charge ability is the same crap as burrow charge; just that you go under ground. Stop trying to wish that HOTS is something else.
Zealot Charge: -Auto cast ability -Attacks nearest enemy -Blocked by friendly unit collision
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I'm sorry, but you really couldn't be more wrong lol.
On November 23 2012 23:38 XxJuicexX wrote: Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
Burrow Charge is nothing like the Zealot Charge, which is mindless ability that has auto-cast. They also had the speed upgrade, then they removed it and gave it speed upgrade by default, don't see how is this a problem.
Speed upgrade by default? The ultralisk moves the same as it did in WOL. The charge ability is the same crap as burrow charge; just that you go under ground. Stop trying to wish that HOTS is something else.
Zealot Charge: -Auto cast ability -Attacks nearest enemy -Blocked by friendly unit collision
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I'm sorry, but you really couldn't be more wrong lol.
Its still the same concept
Please, is that really all you have to say? Marines and stalkers both go "pew pew." Same concept, completely different role. Try again.
On November 23 2012 23:38 XxJuicexX wrote: Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
Burrow Charge is nothing like the Zealot Charge, which is mindless ability that has auto-cast. They also had the speed upgrade, then they removed it and gave it speed upgrade by default, don't see how is this a problem.
Speed upgrade by default? The ultralisk moves the same as it did in WOL. The charge ability is the same crap as burrow charge; just that you go under ground. Stop trying to wish that HOTS is something else.
Zealot Charge: -Auto cast ability -Attacks nearest enemy -Blocked by friendly unit collision
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I'm sorry, but you really couldn't be more wrong lol.
Its still the same concept
Please, is that really all you have to say? Marines and stalkers both go "pew pew." Same concept, completely different role. Try again.
Why you mad though? The charge ability is used to get close to your enemy. But again, why are you mad?
On November 23 2012 23:38 XxJuicexX wrote: Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
Burrow Charge is nothing like the Zealot Charge, which is mindless ability that has auto-cast. They also had the speed upgrade, then they removed it and gave it speed upgrade by default, don't see how is this a problem.
Speed upgrade by default? The ultralisk moves the same as it did in WOL. The charge ability is the same crap as burrow charge; just that you go under ground. Stop trying to wish that HOTS is something else.
Zealot Charge: -Auto cast ability -Attacks nearest enemy -Blocked by friendly unit collision
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I'm sorry, but you really couldn't be more wrong lol.
Its still the same concept
Please, is that really all you have to say? Marines and stalkers both go "pew pew." Same concept, completely different role. Try again.
Why you mad though? The charge ability is used to get close to your enemy. But again, why are you mad?
Ah, so I see you've finally realized how retarded you are and now you're trying to sound like you've been trolling all along to cover it up. Such a pity, I expected more of an effort to come from you .
On November 23 2012 23:38 XxJuicexX wrote: Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
Burrow Charge is nothing like the Zealot Charge, which is mindless ability that has auto-cast. They also had the speed upgrade, then they removed it and gave it speed upgrade by default, don't see how is this a problem.
Speed upgrade by default? The ultralisk moves the same as it did in WOL. The charge ability is the same crap as burrow charge; just that you go under ground. Stop trying to wish that HOTS is something else.
Zealot Charge: -Auto cast ability -Attacks nearest enemy -Blocked by friendly unit collision
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I'm sorry, but you really couldn't be more wrong lol.
Its still the same concept
Please, is that really all you have to say? Marines and stalkers both go "pew pew." Same concept, completely different role. Try again.
Why you mad though? The charge ability is used to get close to your enemy. But again, why are you mad?
Ah, so I see you've finally realized how retarded you are and now you're trying to sound like you've been trolling all along to cover it up. Such a pity, I expected more of an effort to come from you .
What is a troll? Anyways no need to be depressed. This is just a forum. I'll give you time to think about it, but don't be mad if you respond.
Personally, there's really only one buff to Terran that I would really, really like to see and that's to the Siege tank. At first I thought a damage buff would've been suitable but I reckon a lower supply cost and slightly lower resource cost would make for a more interesting change. The reason being that more units = more fun so rather than having strong single tanks I'd rather see more of them, spread out across the board, defending expansions etc.
Against Protoss, this would just simply make mech stronger as it is a direct buff to a core mech unit and perhaps more viable.
In TvZ zerg now has the viper with blinding cloud, which is just another hard counter to the tank like so many before, so not only does zerg have a good response to the siege tank, even if it were to be stronger/buffed, but also quite necessary for tank viability in the matchup.
im ready to see some existing unit changes already, when is the next patch supposed to hit..........we need more balance testings asap, march is right around the corner.
On November 24 2012 01:54 Murkury wrote: Zealot Charge: -Auto cast ability -Attacks nearest enemy -Blocked by friendly unit collision
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I'm sorry, but you really couldn't be more wrong lol.
Question, does the burrow charge attack deal the same damage as normal? Or does it do full damage in a wider radius?
Is anyone else as worried about TvT as I am? Reapers are butchering any sort of build diversity, and it's a tad frightening to see the Devs. talking about Reapers like they're "successful" or that they may even need buffs.
From my experience you either go Reapers or you metagame and go blind marauders + sim city to defend vs Reapers. Basically any other build is an instant loss and an FE is suicide. That, and they're still useless in TvP and TvZ due to MSC and Queens. Are others having the same issues?
On November 26 2012 10:10 ForwardUntoDawn wrote: Is anyone else as worried about TvT as I am? Reapers are butchering any sort of build diversity, and it's a tad frightening to see the Devs. talking about Reapers like they're "successful" or that they may even need buffs.
Actually, they do need buffs, because it's ridiculous for a unit to be useful only in early game TvT.
Hey, I didn't see you mention anything about the Phoenix or Mutalisk. After my interview with Dustin Browder, he told us that they were looking into changes with these units plus the Void Ray. The most official comment on this is in the following link, but I actually wrote that OP anyways, so.... =P
Dayvie also talks more about buffing underused units in a recent post.
That comparison with BW and HotS new unit adds are pretty interesting.
On top of that, the next thing on our list for the beta is to take a pass at units that have been phased out as well as units that aren't being used that much. Both of these areas we feel can change up the game. For example, if a unit that's almost never used in Wings is changed to be useful in HotS, we feel it's just as big of a win.
We're looking at potentially changing up units like Voidray or Raven. And also looking at bringing back things like heavy Mutalisk usage, heavy medivac drop based play, or stronger Banshee/DT viability.
Please let us know if you guys have suggestions on this area.
Thanks monk and Descendos! Added Hydralisk, Phoenix and Mutalisk to the op.
Lair tech hydra speed is a good step, not sure if enough though if they are going ahead and make fungal projectile.
Edit: @eviltomahawk wow, that's really ambitious. Looks like they are trying to promote agressive styles (in their examples anyways) and that caters to my tastes so I'm happy
yeah they shouldnt buff mutaspeed. take away hitting air and cloaked from mine finally (while removing spore change and MsC detection change) and buff the muta in another way. not the unit itself needs a buff but it needs to be possible to build only 8-10 mutas if you want and be effective with it. maybe let mutas morph into corruptors or vipers so going mutatech is less "all or nothing".
david kim talking about giving hydras lairtechspeed and increase mutaspeed + acceleration.
awesome news! :D
that feel when flock of mutas gets nuked by 2 widow mines
You should avoid those or send one muta in first if you think its a trap. Then those widowmines are extra dumb and easy to kill.
lol so 1 mine for 25 gas only kills 1 muta for 100 gas..."great" exchange lol. they dont need to buff mutas but nerf mine hitting air and cloaked. thats just completely stupid and since everybody in the community says that and blizzard seems to listen a lot in the last weeks i think there is a very realistic chance that mines hitting air and cloaked will be removed and their supply buffed to 0,5 or 1.
On November 23 2012 23:38 XxJuicexX wrote: Seriously, blizzard should change the ultralisk to what it was in broodwar. Reduce it's scale size, and add a speed upgrade. Burrow charge is a lame copy of zealot charge. WTF is wrong with blizzard.
Burrow Charge is nothing like the Zealot Charge, which is mindless ability that has auto-cast. They also had the speed upgrade, then they removed it and gave it speed upgrade by default, don't see how is this a problem.
Speed upgrade by default? The ultralisk moves the same as it did in WOL. The charge ability is the same crap as burrow charge; just that you go under ground. Stop trying to wish that HOTS is something else.
Zealot Charge: -Auto cast ability -Attacks nearest enemy -Blocked by friendly unit collision
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I'm sorry, but you really couldn't be more wrong lol.
Its still the same concept
Please, is that really all you have to say? Marines and stalkers both go "pew pew." Same concept, completely different role. Try again.
Why you mad though? The charge ability is used to get close to your enemy. But again, why are you mad?
Ah, so I see you've finally realized how retarded you are and now you're trying to sound like you've been trolling all along to cover it up. Such a pity, I expected more of an effort to come from you .
User was warned for this post
Murkury was warned for this? Um okay. Whatever. Murkury is 100% right. He made a complete comparison between the 2 abilities pointing out the differences, which are many. Then juice boy goes all "why you mad why you mad?" mode, and then... Actually I can understand how pointless it is trying to explain. I'm downright mind fucked by the warning.
ANYWAY, Yeah, Charge and Burrow Charge are similar in name and role (closing the distance). However, the steps taken and the way they achieve said role are very different.
Im just curious, has blizzard said anything about changing up the units more? specifically the raven and thor cause im a terran and nothing will change that, and tbh it seems like those are the two units that need the most work right now.
In terms of the corruptor changes I feel like the corruption ability is underused but yet it could be removed. The boring counter analogy could be extended to vikings only difference is vikings can land and do a bit of harass that way. Also, the overseer has some cool abilities in my opinion(like contaminate) but zergs just don't seem to use it a lot in pro play, Ravens also aren't used a lot in pro play unless you're IM_MVP going up against IM_NesTea I think it was and he mass ravened and seeker missiled vs bl infestor. Raven auto turret harass is underused too i think. I use raven pretty frequently and successfully on ladder no problem.
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I didn't know ultralisk charge was a manual cast. It's coolness level just went up by over 9000. Hope blizz doesn't remove it (I heard they were thinking about it recently)
We don't have anything [specific] yet [for the Void Ray]. We tried some stuff today that didn't really work. We will post if and when we get something that seems OK.
Wow, thanks so much for making this and keeping it updated. Looking through the forums for blue posts can be a pain in the ass. This work is very much appreciated.
Regarding void rays... you *never* see them PvT because Terrans are forced to make the counter to VR's (mass marines) EVERY single game. You make mech viable vs Protoss (whack BC's and Thor's energy bars and put same/new abilities on a cooldown) and you make VR's viable vs Terran instantly overnight.
Honestly guys, if Ultras and BL's had an energy bar, do you think that *might* change the PvZ metagame... um... instantly? I think it's an easy decision.
Ultralisk Charge: -Manual Cast -Selective use, can be used to dodge enemy attacks (you don't have to focus on an enemy to use it, it can be used with micro similar to blink micro or used as an escape mechanism.) -Allows for Ultralisk to negate friendly collision -Ultralisk is now guaranteed to do some damage by negating initial engagement damage -Allows for Ultralisk to get behind enemy forces and focus down important units such as thors/tanks/collosi/immortals -Scatters enemy units upon contact when unburrowed, allowing for more surface area of attack by zerg units
I didn't know ultralisk charge was a manual cast. It's coolness level just went up by over 9000. Hope blizz doesn't remove it (I heard they were thinking about it recently)
Nah, they were thinking about nerfing it, not removing it entirely.
I like the concept of Burrow Charge, it needs some tweaks, the animation isn't actually pleasant to the eye, but it definitely makes Ultras more viable.
they really should add sh to hydra den coz when i throw that inf pit i always find myself making infestors anyways. plus they can synergize well with hydras. apply pressure with hydra dps behind locust waves till you break them apart...
Thanks for taking the time to put this together. It's really informative.
I think Blizzard is generally on the right track with just about all of the changes (where they actually hinted where they might change a unit) and things they're thinking about changing. Good job DB and DK.
On November 21 2012 11:47 xPrimuSx wrote: I think it would be better to give Fungal diminishing returns then to just up and make a unit type immune (although I'm fine with Interceptors being rendered immune to Fungal). Make it so that units affected by Fungal gain a Spore marker, like the Acid Spores the Devourer had. Each Spore (max of 2) reduces the amount of time that Fungal roots the target by 1 second (damage will still occur over the entire spell time). The Spores expire 2 seconds after the Fungal that granted them does. Chain Fungaling can still be done, but at greater cost to the Zerg. If instead the Zerg player wants to let the Spores expire, then the opposing player has gained a small window to do something to mitigate the incoming Fungal.
That solves chain fungaling, but that's only half the problem. Imo it would be better just to have fungal start out as root and have the effect wear off as the spell goes on.
I like that type of solution the best. It will allow players to micro out of it (a bit depending on how fast the effects wear off) and it will still allow for chain fungals, except that the zerg will have to spend a lot more energy to make it happen. I'd also be OK if they simply made the ghost and HT immune to the spell; I think you would see a big difference if that were the case especially in tvz.
Hydras really dont need changes in HOTS. Speed at lair would be fine I think, but in terms of DPS they definitely dont. In combination with Vipers, I have seen Hydras tear apart tank lines, bio balls and Battlecruisers on LZgamers stream. I think they just need the movement speed upgrade sooner.
On November 30 2012 01:30 Darpa wrote: Hydras really dont need changes in HOTS. Speed at lair would be fine I think, but in terms of DPS they definitely dont. In combination with Vipers, I have seen Hydras tear apart tank lines, bio balls and Battlecruisers on LZgamers stream. I think they just need the movement speed upgrade sooner.
You also need to take into account that Infestors are getting nerfs, Fungal is nerfed, Neural is on the chopping blocks, Infested Terrans might change as well. So Hydralisks need to fill in new roles in Lair tech.
EPT
went Devourers. It's always Mutalisk-Scourage.
