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Active: 643 users

Compiled list of stated upcoming WOL unit changes

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-27 19:03:07
November 13 2012 20:17 GMT
#1
The title should say "Compiled list of stated possible upcoming WOL unit changes" but it didn't fit. Sorted by race. Feel free to propose possible solutions.

I included a link to any sources I can find. Tell me if I missed something.


Thor
I agree. That [250mm strike] cannon is not awesome. We will put some effort towards new ideas for that ability.

-Dustin Browder
Second example is Thor's 250mm Cannons, very few players use it. So HOTS is a good chance for us, and we may redesign it to make more players use 250mm cannon.

-Dustin Browder
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should 250mm Strike Cannon be changed?

Yes (495)
 
98%

No (12)
 
2%

507 total votes

Your vote: Should 250mm Strike Cannon be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Ravens
We are almost done designing the new units. Now we are considering to completely re-design several units such as Void-ray and Raven.

-David Kim
We'll take a look at the Raven. I agree, it would be cool to see more of them and there might be some balance or design changes we could do to improve the unit.

Thanks for the discussion! =)

-Dustin Browder
I can't promise what is going to be changed. In next few weeks we will go through the units in WOL and decide either just adjust them or redesign them. For example, raven's seeker missile.

-Dustin Browder
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should the Raven be changed?

Yes (353)
 
91%

No (36)
 
9%

389 total votes

Your vote: Should the Raven be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Medivacs
Another way we are currently thinking is to change the medviac so that it can heal both bio AND mechanic through different healing mechanism. Also we are thinking of preventing hellbats to change back to hellions. The change in armor types during transformation is an issue that needs more research.

-David Kim
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should the Medivac healing be changed?

No (341)
 
76%

Yes (106)
 
24%

447 total votes

Your vote: Should the Medivac healing be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Reaper
We are seeing great improvement in the beta. Reapers will be much more viable in TvT or TvZ early game. If we believe the units are still being underused, we are willing to make it stronger. We are trying to make them more viable units for harassment.

-David Kim
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should the Reaper be changed?

Yes (280)
 
83%

No (56)
 
17%

336 total votes

Your vote: Should the Reaper be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Carrier
There is no doubt that Carriers need to be buffed. We are still afraid that carriers being used as "a-move" units in pro level play. Therefore we are only considering to add minor buffs to it. We are thinking of making interceptors immune to Infestor's fungal growth.

However, we are focusing on the general metagame trend of the game so I believe it is too early for us decide how they will be changed. We saw a video posted by a foreign progamer comparing the Carriers from BW and WoL. We believe that we could use some of the suggestions provided in this video.

-David Kim
Currently not as worried about Carrier as much as the new HotS units, but extra special thanks to Nony's video, we're thinking on 2 possibilities in the future:

leashing thing
Interceptor launching thing

But let's try to focus on HotS if we can. -Dayvie, from the pro forum (I think we're aloud to post this stuff?)

-David Kim (according to goswser)
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should the Carrier be changed?

Yes (350)
 
96%

No (16)
 
4%

366 total votes

Your vote: Should the Carrier be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Void rays
We are almost done designing the new units. Now we are considering to completely re-design several units such as Void-ray and Raven.

-David Kim
We will be looking some at the Void Ray soonish. I don't know what if anything we will decide to do with him but your feedback on this unit has certainly been heard.

-Dustin Browder
For void ray, do you mean it's too weak? However many people complains it's too strong before last patch. I want to do something crazy to void ray, but we know nothing about how to do it now. We may try something before Christmas.

-Dustin Browder
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should the Void Ray be changed?

Yes (282)
 
88%

No (39)
 
12%

321 total votes

Your vote: Should the Void Ray be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Phoenix
We ran out of time, but after the interview, he told us there were changes planned for Void Ray, Phoenix, and Mutalisk. It’s unclear if these will be for WoL or HotS, but most likely will be HotS only.

-TL
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should Phoenixes be changed?

No (69)
 
64%

Yes (38)
 
36%

107 total votes

Your vote: Should Phoenixes be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Mothership
Our goal with this unit is described well by Phantom. The main purpose for this unit is definitely to deal with mass colossi in PvP as well as to force an engagement vs. Zerg who is sitting back being on the defensive with mass Infestors/Broodlords. We eventually want to phase out Vortex a bit once we are sure Tempests are working well.

-David Kim
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should Mothership Vortex be changed?

Yes (248)
 
87%

No (37)
 
13%

285 total votes

Your vote: Should Mothership Vortex be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Infestors
I want to be as clear as I can on our current position of the Infestor in Wings of Liberty.

- We are not going to make any changes before BWC.
- We are going to continue to watch games and gather data.
- We will discuss changes.
- We may try a balance map sometime after BWC.
- We may try some changes in Swarm Beta, using that as a test-bed for stuff we could bring back into Wings of Liberty.

At this time I could see these as possible outcomes:
- We nerf Infested Terrans, Fungal Growth or both.
- We make a change to the Infestor (hit points, movement speed, etc.).
- We do a change to how the unit is designed (add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, increase the visibility of burrowed units while they are moving, etc.).
- We buff some of the potential counters (EMP, Feedback).
- We do a combination of any of the above.
- We see something that makes us decide that doing nothing is the right answer. Obviously if this occurs we would share this data or reasoning.

For those of you who believe that this is too slow a response, I am sorry.

-Dustin Browder
Currently the most widely discussed unit is BL - Infestor combination.If the dominance is present in both ZvP and ZvT, we are willing to reduce the range the fungal growth or reduce the radius. If this is only applicable to ZvP, we are willing to buff carriers by making interceptors immune to fungal growth. However, we still think that BL-Infestor composition isn't a big deal.

-David Kim
Note: Browder's quote is more recent than Kim's quote.
We are going to make a balance test map on WOL realms. On this map, Psionic units will be immune to [Fungal Growth]. On HOTS BETA, we are going to add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, just like we did in patch 1.3 PTR.

[What about infested terrans?]
That's really troublesome, and really hard to balance. We'll have to think about it somemore.

-Dustin Browder
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should the Infestor be changed?

Yes (310)
 
86%

No (49)
 
14%

359 total votes

Your vote: Should the Infestor be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Hydralisk
For Zerg though, we're currently thinking it would be cool if core tier 2 tech options are Hydralisks (with speed upgrade at lair), Mutalisks (with buffs possible speed and/or acceleration). Core tier 3 options will still be same Broods/Ultras. And we can phase out Infestors a bit by nerfing them.

-David Kim
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should Hydralisks be changed?

Yes (89)
 
93%

No (7)
 
7%

96 total votes

Your vote: Should Hydralisks be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Mutalisk
For Zerg though, we're currently thinking it would be cool if core tier 2 tech options are Hydralisks (with speed upgrade at lair), Mutalisks (with buffs possible speed and/or acceleration). Core tier 3 options will still be same Broods/Ultras. And we can phase out Infestors a bit by nerfing them.

-David Kim
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should Mutalisks be changed?

No (72)
 
56%

Yes (56)
 
44%

128 total votes

Your vote: Should Mutalisks be changed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No




Corruptors and Overseers???
There are some easy things we can do and there are some hard things. If we study the game, for example, you would say that the corruptor is lame. Don't get us wrong; they're useful. If there are a lot of colossi, you need corruptors. If there are dark templars, you need overseers. They have a battle function for a situation, but what new battle strategies and tactics do they add in the game? Compare the [corruptors and overseers] to the mutalisks; a player can raid, harass. They can get board control; they can decimate opponents without antiair. Party, right? Having those guys around changes the match. Corruptors? Meh. You build colossi, I build corruptors; end of story.

There are some units we can upgrade wholesale or remove and replace with something better. That's one easy way to give better gameplay without giving so many options you don't know what's going on while also not compromising balance.

-Dustin Browder
We have decided to keep the overseer and make the viper a pure caster. We will be taking a look at the overseer to see what we can do to make his abilities more interesting.

-Dustin Browder
+ Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Should Blizzard change the Corruptor?

Yes, I agree with Browder that its current form is lame (589)
 
86%

No, I want it to stay as is (92)
 
14%

681 total votes

Your vote: Should Blizzard change the Corruptor?

(Vote): Yes, I agree with Browder that its current form is lame
(Vote): No, I want it to stay as is


Poll: Should Blizzard change the Overseer?

Yes, "make his abilities more interesting" (377)
 
61%

No, I want it to stay as is (243)
 
39%

620 total votes

Your vote: Should Blizzard change the Overseer?

(Vote): Yes, "make his abilities more interesting"
(Vote): No, I want it to stay as is





I'll update this post when new information becomes available.

+ Show Spoiler [Bonus poll courtesy of LockeTazeline] +
Poll: What other unit should Blizzard change?

Colossus (159)
 
53%

Battlecruiser (40)
 
13%

Sentry (17)
 
6%

Siege Tank (16)
 
5%

Ghost (15)
 
5%

Immortal (13)
 
4%

Hydralisk (11)
 
4%

Brood Lord (8)
 
3%

Roach (6)
 
2%

Viking (5)
 
2%

Other (5)
 
2%

Marauder (3)
 
1%

298 total votes

Your vote: What other unit should Blizzard change?

(Vote): Marauder
(Vote): Ghost
(Vote): Siege Tank
(Vote): Viking
(Vote): Battlecruiser
(Vote): Sentry
(Vote): Immortal
(Vote): Colossus
(Vote): Roach
(Vote): Hydralisk
(Vote): Brood Lord
(Vote): Other

MMA: The true King of Wings
People_0f_Color
Profile Joined August 2010
177 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 20:26:23
November 13 2012 20:20 GMT
#2
Weren't there conversations about them changing nydus canals? Possibly by introducing more types of worms. What ever happened to that?

EDIT:

Apparently they got canned.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366718&currentpage=2

Too bad too. The creep one would have been AWESOME.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3364 Posts
November 13 2012 20:24 GMT
#3
Nice compilation, will help people to suggest things that Blizzard is actually focusing on at the given moment.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
November 13 2012 20:26 GMT
#4
On November 14 2012 05:20 People_0f_Color wrote:
Weren't there conversations about them changing nydus canals? Possibly by introducing more types of worms. What ever happened to that?


The new Nyduses are campaign only.
MMA: The true King of Wings
K_osss
Profile Joined June 2010
United States113 Posts
November 13 2012 20:34 GMT
#5
I wonder if an option to buff hard/soft counters to Infestors should be a pick in the poll for infestor changes. For example, since Carriers could be an infestor/BL counter a change to them would also affect my answer to "should the infestor be changed?". Just a thought.
Scila
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1849 Posts
November 13 2012 20:40 GMT
#6
Nice post. If Blizzard doesn't fix Thor and Raven there really is no point to be buying HOTS or playing Terran anymore. Our late game needs serious help.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
November 13 2012 20:44 GMT
#7
On November 14 2012 05:34 K_osss wrote:
I wonder if an option to buff hard/soft counters to Infestors should be a pick in the poll for infestor changes. For example, since Carriers could be an infestor/BL counter a change to them would also affect my answer to "should the infestor be changed?". Just a thought.


Too late

Discussion about the Infestor should probably go to one of these threads:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381388
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=380798

They are very active with many posters.


P.S. I just added the Mothership to the list
MMA: The true King of Wings
K_osss
Profile Joined June 2010
United States113 Posts
November 13 2012 20:53 GMT
#8
I would like to see the mothership changed but if they "phase out" vortex I'm curious what effect that will have on it. I would think they'd need to give it some more utility. I don't know would people build it if it lost vortex or vortex wasn't as useful without some buff to compensate? Yeah I realize it's got cloaking field and mass recall and yes those are sweet but vortex is WHY it's built primarily in PvZ and I don't see alot of them in PvP.
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
November 13 2012 20:53 GMT
#9
i´m gonna switch to T for sure if T and P get more units than Z in the Z expansion AND they get all their units fixed while infestor gets nerfed and most other zerg units keep sucking. i wouldnt be surprised if hydras, ultras, nydus, burrowmovement, dropplay, SHs, corruptor, overseer arent buffed/changed any more.

was there anything they mentioned about the above units/mechanics being fixed from blizzards side?
cnaphan
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada8 Posts
November 13 2012 21:26 GMT
#10
I hope they try some more interesting ways to nerf FG than just lowering its range or radius.

I suggest allowing "movement" abilities to be used while fungalled. For instance, blink, burrow, unsiege, load transport, etc...

I'd also suggest making burrowed units impervious to FG, which might make for more interesting Roach-Infestor engagements, since you could burrow-move away, or burrow-move towards the enemy.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
November 13 2012 21:35 GMT
#11
I think raven, VR and infestor revamps are the most important ones. The first two are just silly and awkward to use and the infestor is way too massable for a caster.

The rest of the units listed don't need to change in a fundamental manner imo, maybe slight buffs are in order but not much else.
ieatoreos
Profile Joined November 2012
United States6 Posts
November 13 2012 21:38 GMT
#12
On November 14 2012 06:26 cnaphan wrote:
I hope they try some more interesting ways to nerf FG than just lowering its range or radius.

I suggest allowing "movement" abilities to be used while fungalled. For instance, blink, burrow, unsiege, load transport, etc...

I'd also suggest making burrowed units impervious to FG, which might make for more interesting Roach-Infestor engagements, since you could burrow-move away, or burrow-move towards the enemy.

Yeah here's hoping its not just a straight-up nerf and something more creative. I'd really hate to see infestors stop getting utilized.
And then there were none
Warpath
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1242 Posts
November 13 2012 21:39 GMT
#13
Also we are thinking of preventing hellbats to change back to hellions.


Are you kidding? How long ago was this said? I'd be so mad if this happened.
TrickyGilligan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States641 Posts
November 13 2012 21:48 GMT
#14
I'm surprised how lopsided most of the polls are towards changing WoL units. I knew people weren't that happy with WoL... but wow.

One thing though, where the heck is the talk of the Colossus from Blizzard? That has to be the single most hated unit in WoL, both from a gameplay and spectator standpoint. They don't even seem like they're aware it's an issue. Perhaps it's just not one of the big issues with all the recent Infestor talk.
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -Groucho Marx
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
November 13 2012 21:53 GMT
#15
On November 14 2012 05:53 Decendos wrote:
i´m gonna switch to T for sure if T and P get more units than Z in the Z expansion AND they get all their units fixed while infestor gets nerfed and most other zerg units keep sucking. i wouldnt be surprised if hydras, ultras, nydus, burrowmovement, dropplay, SHs, corruptor, overseer arent buffed/changed any more.

was there anything they mentioned about the above units/mechanics being fixed from blizzards side?


We can always use more Terrans on the ladder.
MMA: The true King of Wings
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
November 13 2012 21:55 GMT
#16
On November 14 2012 06:39 Warpath wrote:
Show nested quote +
Also we are thinking of preventing hellbats to change back to hellions.


Are you kidding? How long ago was this said? I'd be so mad if this happened.


I've included the sources for all my work so you can check for yourself. The article was published November 6, exactly one week ago.
MMA: The true King of Wings
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
November 13 2012 21:57 GMT
#17
On November 14 2012 06:48 TrickyGilligan wrote:
I'm surprised how lopsided most of the polls are towards changing WoL units. I knew people weren't that happy with WoL... but wow.

One thing though, where the heck is the talk of the Colossus from Blizzard? That has to be the single most hated unit in WoL, both from a gameplay and spectator standpoint. They don't even seem like they're aware it's an issue. Perhaps it's just not one of the big issues with all the recent Infestor talk.


I can't find any statements about the Colossus. They were the most hated unit until recently

Poll: The official most hated unit by TL is...

Infestor (313)
 
74%

Colossus (111)
 
26%

424 total votes

Your vote: The official most hated unit by TL is...

(Vote): Infestor
(Vote): Colossus

MMA: The true King of Wings
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
November 13 2012 22:05 GMT
#18
I really doubt that whether they can done all those changes in a good way before March 2013.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10325 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 22:10:51
November 13 2012 22:06 GMT
#19
aw man, thought these were new comments ;O

Oh well, still a nice compilation


Darn forgot there is a pro forum... so that's where they do the serious stuff eh ;O


Damn they canned the nydus worms? =/
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
captainwaffles
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1050 Posts
November 13 2012 22:08 GMT
#20
Dood, massive props for putting all this stuff in one place, seriously thank you very much
https://x.com/CaptainWaffless
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