|
On October 26 2012 02:00 Jmanthedragonguy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:26 rpgalon wrote:Ok What about: Time Warp - Increase Protoss Units Movement Speed and Negates root/slow effectsVERY SMALL Radius (1.0),
6-15s duration, 50-75 energyCan be used on ground/air unitswhy? -can be used to retreat key units like a colossus or a small group of sentries/HT, but can't be used to save your army from a bad engagement. -can be used in warp prism with zealots(let's say the skill affects units inside the prism) making the drop far deadlier for worker harass. -is not really good in making the ground protoss deathball faster and deadlier since the radius is really small, you can only affect few units, so you can't really catch a retreating army (unless you have lot's of oracles, but then your army will be far weaker since oracles are 3 supply and can't attack). -can be used to Help Void-rays a lot, making them able to retreat from a bad situation (2 viking), or able to catch retreating units a little longer. -Makes air units far more resilient but not stronger, the biggest problem of protoss air is they are a One-engagement unit, you can never retreat(except phoenix), they can be easily snipped or get caught out of position because of the opponent AA range and strength. -Unlike ground units you can micro and stack your air units to get the buff on a lot of them. it gives more micro to the A-move late game protoss air, makes the air more reliable since it's no longer a Do-or-Die situation without giving them more power. -Helps deal with infestor lock, you can use air without being afraid of one fungal=dead air and help the templars reaching the infestors. -It does not negate the opponent micro, or make storm OP -I can see so many uses for this skill I hope you guys can back me up on this idea EDIT: On October 26 2012 01:23 GattAttack wrote:
Good post, and I do agree that time warp is a much more exciting and dynamic spell than what the oracle had before. However I don't really understand why it has to slow movement speed like so many spells before it (fungal, concessive shells, and forcefields to an extent). Debuffs are always fun, but why not some buffing for the aiur force? Personally I think that instead of -50% movement speed why not (numbers not exact) +50% movement speed?
Suddenly with +50% movement speed zealot archon oracle…would just be awesome. Also since the spell affects an area (I read that right, right?) then good time warp usage would be so much more important, unless you want to deal with super stimmed marines (omfg!), or speedy speedlings. This kind of dynamic would also be more interesting with blizzards other suggestion: the decrease to locust/broodling/infested terran life, since if you want to decrease the time that they exist you would also increase their movement speed! You could also play around then with like +shield/health regen and other factors to make the spell more of a late game field control kind of spell, rather than just a simple movement speed buff/defuff. looks like you had almost the same Idea as I did and posted it before me while I was writing =P I hope blizzard goes this Buff style instead of the Debuff one... lol you could probe stack though to get crazy fast mining ...
hahaha, but you can not, the only thing you would get is probes awaiting more in the line before they can finally start harvesting... you could put 2 probes on gas and use the skill on then, but that would be a little stupid =P.... it just help to show how many ideas we could get from this change.
|
i'm finally starting to love that unit.
|
Uses i can think beyond simply.... cast on choke to slow incoming units.
- Chargelots vs roaches on creep
- Support for void rays chasing stuff (although this would be minimal)
- Setting a path of these on the ramps leading to high ground mains on 4 player maps while warping inside with prism. Hard to tell how useful this would be on larger ramps without knowing the radius of the spell
- Cast on top of infested terrans recently hatched to turn them in turtles, they are already slow as hell off creep.
- Cast on hydras to troll zerg players thinking they were finally useful 
- Cast on the attack path of swarm hosts.
- Used in combination with forcefields vs zerg on small/medium chokes to slice a piece of the army and kite the rest taking almost no damage.
- Used in conjunction with storm drops to maximize kills.
I'm sure there's a lot more but overall id say its mostly just a tool to give protoss some control over zerg, Could be useful vs terran but its hard to theorize much when EMP basically kills this in any real battle beyond laying a slow highway between bases you are harassing.
edit: removed some stuff involving air, dint realize this was ground only
|
Meh I don't like it that much.
First of all as a harassment spell it seems pretty silly unless they change some of it's workings on workers. Considering movement is only a part of the gathering minerals mechanisms this will only slow mining by ~25%, in fact it will probably not even slow mining much if a base is fully saturated (3 workers per mineral, 3 on gas). Perhaps if they make the actual mining slower as well it could do something. (it would be cool if it actually slowed every enemy thing, like making units, building buildings, researching techs etc).
I also disagree how it may not synergize with FF. Sure casting both at the same time won't do anything but time warp seems like an ideal spell to chase an army with so you can box them afterwards. For example zerg prods at the third with roaches, you fly in and time warp them and they can't escape before your sentry mix arrives and boxes them.
In that way i'm afraid the spell will deter players from attacking protoss even more nor help protoss attack themselves very much which actually encourages the "15 mins no rush" type of games we often see now.
Finally I fail to see how this can replace FF for defending the third. In PvT i can understand as this potentially let's your zealots get hits in for which you'd otherwise use a FF box but in PvZ i don't trust it. PvZ is the only matchup that restricts map building imo, ie all maps have a fairly closed third because of this matchup otherwise being broken on it. Yet I don't see how you can hold roaches or multi-prong ling attacks with timewarp instead of FF yet unless it has some HUGE area of effect. Stalker/sentry/immortal is the only combo that deals with both lings and roaches early on because it's all ranged, can abuse ff and does good bonus damage against roaches. Zealots still do poorly against roaches even if their speed is down to 50% because zealots can't focus and don't do bonus damage vs armored.
Maybe that in combination with purify this time warp will be enough to play sentryless against Z which would open up the map pool to allow maps with tough thirds etc. Still without any things that really benefit terran/protoss on open maps, maps like that will remain zerg maps probably.
Either way I think I really have to play with it first to really judge it. Still the idea that there is another spell restricting movement in the game soon scares me to think we will see even less back and forth action. Games like Ryung vs Flash today are awesome because there was constant movement and back and forth action over the map. Spells that severely restrict movement (fungal, concussive, graviton beam, ff and now time warp) stop that 'dancing' game back and forth because one or both parties can no longer escape with minimal losses. Soon anytime you move out on the map as zerg against protoss you have to afraid: "what if he was just preparing a big attack? he will timewarp my roaches and crush them before i can retreat!". When prodding is no longer safe harassment dies out and the game resorts to camping or going all-in. Much like protoss is forced to play in WoL because they can never retreat safely (because of concussive shell and speedlings).
On the other hand, blizzard has a very difficult job to do trying to fix all problems with protoss in the oracle:
- protoss overreliance on sentries => oracle must enable sentryless play and make third base play possible on maps with an open third
- protoss lack of harassment options => must be good harass unit (ignoring the fact that protoss already had harass options on the stargate but dustin browder is so stupid to force the oracle as a stargate unit..)
- protoss deathball syndrome => must not reinforce the deathball but it must have some small combat use or be utterly boring like the previous oracle
It's very hard to come up with an ability set that fulfills these three requirements, time warp might be close but i'm afraid it will turn out terrible by promoting boring gameplay as the spell punishes attractive gameplay too much (harassment)
|
This is a cool spell in concept. Hopefully the numbers can be balanced correctly.
|
I like the idea lets wait to see it in play before we go crazy about it though
|
On October 26 2012 02:48 Markwerf wrote:
On the other hand, blizzard has a very difficult job to do trying to fix all problems with protoss in the oracle:
- protoss overreliance on sentries => oracle must enable sentryless play and make third base play possible on maps with an open third
- protoss lack of harassment options => must be good harass unit (ignoring the fact that protoss already had harass options on the stargate but dustin browder is so stupid to force the oracle as a stargate unit..)
- protoss deathball syndrome => must not reinforce the deathball but it must have some small combat use or be utterly boring like the previous oracle
It's very hard to come up with an ability set that fulfills these three requirements, time warp might be close but i'm afraid it will turn out terrible by promoting boring gameplay as the spell punishes attractive gameplay too much (harassment)
I think the idea of making the skill a movement speed buff in a really small AoE, instead of an enemy movement speed debuff, does fulfill your 3 points:
-can be used to retreat key units making them faster and able to run away, also the oracle damage skill will probably delay the 3rd zerg base allowing protoss to also delay their 3rd base if they go air play.
-using the speed buff on a Zealot drop squad will make those zealots able to chase scvs making the harass far strong, not only that you will also be able to harass with void-ray/tempest and get away with the speed buff once corruptors/viking appear.
-since the radius would be really small, you can only use the skill on small group of units like a group of HT or 2 colossus... except if it's a protoss air deathball since you can micro and stack the air units to buff them, but that would not make the air fleet stronger, just more resilient since you could use the skill for a fast retreat, it would also give some micro potential to the A-move that is the current protoss air fleet.
-and it does not negate the opponent micro.
|
Just a bad version of fungal, the spell that is making infestors broken.
|
United States4883 Posts
It needs to affect all units, not just enemy units.
My take on it.
|
it is completely useless. not worth the price of the oracle (and stargate). not worth the micro required. people will favor using force fields.
there's a reason why no one used Ensnare in BW
|
On October 26 2012 03:25 blabber wrote:
it is completely useless. not worth the price of the oracle (and stargate). not worth the micro required. people will favor using force fields.
there's a reason why no one used Ensnare in BW
lol, don't even compare the tvp of now to the tvp of BW, we use bio now ...
time warp can:
- hold units in place for longer so storms are extra devastating
- stop units from retreating so the protoss can kill everything
- stop units from chasing so the protoss can retreat
- negate a stim
- make kiting and splitting impossible
It can be an amazing addition to the lategame protoss army, and as a terran player I don't think protoss needs this.
The oracle was meant to be used for harassment, I believe with time warp it will mainly be used in battles.
|
On October 26 2012 03:18 Laurens wrote:
Just a bad version of fungal, the spell that is making infestors broken.
correction: Just a bad version of fungal on one of the fastest flying units in the game
so if you are not chasing zerglings/mutalisks you should be able to 100% catch them units while retreating. You know how every moveout vs marauders with stim and concussive results and no blink done is an all in, as in if you lose the battle there is no retreat and you straight up lose? Well, this awesome spell does just that.
Will make for interesting games, as i will never leave my base ever again, instead turtle it out until i get my Brood Lord cloud going. Enjoy the game!
|
I can't believe it! They finally got rid of entomb which I've been complaining about in one line posts since it's introduction. I might actually play starcraft 2 again.
|
Bisutopia19239 Posts
This is definitely not a useless ability but I'm not sure I'm crazy about it. It will prevent marauder micro and and I can seeit being used with worker slow + zealot harassment. Lots of potential and lots of issues. I'm up for anything that's better than entomb though.
|
On October 26 2012 03:33 Cirqueenflex wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 03:18 Laurens wrote:
Just a bad version of fungal, the spell that is making infestors broken. correction: Just a bad version of fungal on one of the fastest flying units in the gameso if you are not chasing zerglings/mutalisks you should be able to 100% catch them units while retreating. You know how every moveout vs marauders with stim and concussive results and no blink done is an all in, as in if you lose the battle there is no retreat and you straight up lose? Well, this awesome spell does just that. Will make for interesting games, as i will never leave my base ever again, instead turtle it out until i get my Brood Lord cloud going. Enjoy the game!
So what you're saying is it allows toss to punish foolish attacks like the other two races do? But less powerfully than Fungal?
|
Man I really starting to like where Blizzard is going right now
Pulsar Beam is like on of the coolest harass styles...
Even though it needs some buffs I guess (maybe)
Makes me wanna play HotS Protoss :D
|
hmmm, sounds a lot like ensnare to me? And that spell hardly ever saw the light of day. Might as well give P the corsair back with disruption web. O wait, Z has that with the viper and blinding cloud....in all seriousness we will just have to wait and see what happens
|
On October 26 2012 03:29 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 03:25 blabber wrote:
it is completely useless. not worth the price of the oracle (and stargate). not worth the micro required. people will favor using force fields.
there's a reason why no one used Ensnare in BW lol, don't even compare the tvp of now to the tvp of BW, we use bio now ... time warp can: - hold units in place for longer so storms are extra devastating - stop units from retreating so the protoss can kill everything - stop units from chasing so the protoss can retreat - negate a stim - make kiting and splitting impossible It can be an amazing addition to the lategame protoss army, and as a terran player I don't think protoss needs this. The oracle was meant to be used for harassment, I believe with time warp it will mainly be used in battles.
first off, Ensnare in BW was a Zerg ability, and force fields do all this except BETTER
|
So much discussion and yet its not even in the beta yet. I admit I do like the concept, but it scary how many people have already made up their minds and no one has any hands on experience with it yet....
|
I haven't been so excited since the launch of the beta!!
When I played Toss it felt exactly the same, Mothership core helps but you still have the same army, some people mass Tempests but I only make a few late game when they're viable, so it didn't come in to play much, and I never used the Oracle before because I hated it and I new entombed would for sure be removed, it was just too ridiculous.
Now it really feels like Toss has an epic new unit, with multiple uses, that requires micro and good decisions. Can't wait to try it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
