TvP Mech still not viable? - Page 48

On December 20 2012 02:00 Hider wrote:


You haven't read his post? Look at what he actually wrote instead of what you think he wrote. Its just one sentence.
Also there is no need to argue. Read some of the previous posts in this thread and then you might learn a thing or three. Right now your just someone who doesn't know what your talking about, and sees one game where something you mistakenly call mech "works":

On December 20 2012 03:47 Breach_hu wrote:
Please anyone show a lategame TvP with mech, when P has tempest carrier HT and T actually wins. Just one replay.

On December 20 2012 04:18 Everlong wrote:


Wow, you are completely wrong, you even don't know.. How can you judge me? Who are you? I've played a lot of games in beta for the past 2 weeks. I play mech in all three matchups in WoL and I always watch and discuss with people playing mech. I've watched so many mech replays both in WoL and in HotS that I'm at least sure I know, what I'm talking about. Seriously, you should really think more before judging someone you know nothing about..

Also, what the hell? He wrote he can win vs Bronze league player using mech indirectly implying that the guy who played against Supernova was from Bronze league. I told him that since Supernova is 1st on in GM, there is little to no chance he could be matched against a player from Bronze league.. ???

On December 20 2012 04:40 RanDomFox wrote:
this thread is 'when i try mech, it doesnt work so mech doesnt work!'

but when somebody else makes mech work it's 'their opponent was bad and didnt know how to play against it!'

everything is impossible until someone actually does it, and its been done. its not the easiest thing to do so people get mad. I suggest that instead of coming on a forum site to whine about it, perhaps energy and time would be better spent actually trying to make it work.

On December 20 2012 04:32 Vindicare605 wrote:



I agree that deathball vs deathball shouldn't be how the match up is designed except I'm of the opinion that Mech vs Protoss should work a lot like Bio Vs Protoss does only in reverse.

The fact that Protoss ground armies are capable of destroying Mech in a straight up ground engagement is what's currently forcing the deathball vs deathball dynamic we're currently seeing. Were Mech not hard countered by Immortals and more effective vs Protoss ground armies in general like they are vs Zerg or Terran ground armies what you'd eventually see is a change in the dynamic to a more mobile style from the Protoss as well as an increased emphasis on air units in the late game.

But as long as Protoss has the option of just continuing to build normal deathballs like they do in the other two match ups and winning with it vs Mech there's no need for them to ever explore any other options.

Mech can't ever have the kind of mobility that Bio has, the style isn't made for that and will NEVER be made for that. Even if the Siege Tank was replaced the Thor is still one of the most immobile units in the game, even if the Thor was replaced or changed the Siege Tank IS the most immobile unit in the game. The style is built around being powerful in straight up engagements. If we want to change the deathball vs deathball dynamic for Mech TvP it has to be on the Protoss side of things.

On December 20 2012 04:43 awesomoecalypse wrote:


The thing is, pure mech winning decisively against a straight up engagement with a Protoss ground army shouldn't be some rare occurance that one has to hunt for, it should be the norm.

On December 20 2012 04:18 Everlong wrote:


Wow, you are completely wrong, you even don't know.. How can you judge me? Who are you? I've played a lot of games in beta for the past 2 weeks. I play mech in all three matchups in WoL and I always watch and discuss with people playing mech. I've watched so many mech replays both in WoL and in HotS that I'm at least sure I know, what I'm talking about. Seriously, you should really think more before judging someone you know nothing about..

Also, what the hell? He wrote he can win vs Bronze league player using mech indirectly implying that the guy who played against Supernova was from Bronze league. I told him that since Supernova is 1st on in GM, there is little to no chance he could be matched against a player from Bronze league.. ???

On December 20 2012 05:33 Hider wrote:


No that was not what he implied. He implied that the relative skill level between supernova and the guy he played was similar between him (the poster) and a bronze league guy.

Also I am judging you becasue its obvious you haven't read most of the previous posts in this thread, and this is why i despite your attempt at irony. If you had read the previous posts you wouldn't point to this game as a "proof".

You could just have stated: "Here is a game of Supernova winning with mech. Seems pretty okay?", or something like that. Instead you chose to use irnoy which indirectly humiliated everyone who has been arguing about mech in the previous pages (which you obvious) haven't read. I think that demonstrates a lot of ignorance.

On December 20 2012 05:58 Everlong wrote:


No, you missed my point. I was aware Supernova was way better then his Protoss opponent. I wasn't posting it as "proof" that mech works. It's just to show people you are more then fine dealing with Tempests and how current TvP "mech" play is supposed to look like. It is quite obvious I'm not judging viability of mech here with this mech. I see everywhere people complaining that Tempest absolutely hard-counters mech play. I think it's not the case and this Vod is showing how it's done if nothing. Of course this is not a "guide" how to play mech TvP. I just want to show the bigger picture.

On December 20 2012 07:01 SheaR619 wrote:



Well I still dont understand how the hell he was able to get his tempest attacked by thors. Why the hell didnt he ever micro them back into his base instead of staying on the outskirt and getting shot by thors. It was terribly micro by the protoss player. He lost so many tempest carelessly. Tempest power increase exponentially as well so losing like 3-4 carelessly really was bad play. Also it was close position starstation, couldnt ask for a better map to mech imo. Try that on cloud kingdom and day break and it would be much harder.

On December 20 2012 08:16 Qikz wrote:


I think a lot of people just want a buff to positional play, because arguably the only positional play unit in the game is the siege tank as it literally cannot move when it wants to attack with real damage and is one of the slowest units in the game elsewhat.

Siege tank usage rewards really clever play, slow pushes and good decision making. Getting caught unsieged in Broodwar meant you lost to every single army in the game.

The issue people have is that sure we have the mine now, but everything "positional" about mech including the widowmine and the tank completely sucks against protoss.

On December 20 2012 08:27 ZjiublingZ wrote:


Yeah the Widow Mine is positional, there's no doubt about that. It's positional against Terran and Zerg in different uses and in different ways. Against Protoss though, with the removing of it's ability to hit cloak, the removing of turning off auto-cast, and now the single target nerf, it's really quite a bad unit to have positioned out on the map to slow down protoss army movements, or to deal with small gateway unit runby's. It's not even particularly good for buffering your siege line, because unless the Zealots are REALLY clumped up, between the overkill and the fact that it takes 2 widow mines to kill 1 Zealot, it's not a supply efficient trade at all.

The best use I have found vs Protoss for the Mine is 1) as a slightly different form of probe harass than the Hellion or 2) to flank the Protoss army as they attack you, getting the Widow Mines underneath their Immortals/Colossus/Void Rays/Archons etc.

Yeah, you the meching player are flanking the enemy...