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HotS Balance Update #6 10/12/12 - Page 15

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
551 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 28 Next All
Nisyax
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Netherlands756 Posts
October 13 2012 08:17 GMT
#281
Spores without evo chamber? Does zerg have that much trouble against cloaked units? Are mines an issue?
Leru
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Romania257 Posts
October 13 2012 08:18 GMT
#282
It seems like they just keep making changes for the sake of it. They didn't make the new units to be in sinergy with the rest of the units, so now they just try to change everything else until hopefully balance is achieved. I'm really thinking to stick to WoL for a while until this crazy loop ends ( I said this assuming they want to launch HotS this year )
Less e$ports, more fun
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-13 09:13:40
October 13 2012 08:27 GMT
#283
On October 13 2012 07:53 IPA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 06:08 aZealot wrote:
No energize? I am a sad Zealot.

Man, this Beta is going to be long with this, as far as I can see, scattergun approach to HotS. I already find these frequent updates exhausting. Although, from another point of view, it's also a regular dose for the many SC2 'junkies' on TL. Too long between balance patches, and there will be withdrawal symptoms for many on TL. LOL.


WoL beta updates were just as frequent and just as drastic. I like Blizz's approach and I think it creates interesting data and perspective.


I was not on TL and did not participate or observe the WOL beta process. Other feedback I have heard around these parts tends to suggest that the HotS beta, while similar to the WOL beta, is actually worse in terms of scale and speed of change.

In any case, I thought about my post later and thought I might be too hard on the Blizzard team. My concern is that it is hard to know where the game is being directed or to make out the shape of the final destination. But, to be fair to Blizzard it is early days yet of an admittedly long Beta process. Secondly, it may be that the Dev team have a general idea of what the final game will be like, but are unsure of the elements making up that final product. Rather like assembling a jigsaw from an incomplete picture while also not being confident you have all the pieces. If it works, so be it. I guess we will have to wait and see.

My other concern, and this, I think, was borne out of the somewhat haphazard WOL beta process, is what happens after release of HotS?. The first year of WOL was full of continued patches, some quite substantive. We've really only had a settled game, more or less, for about a year or so. If this current HotS beta approach continues, I foresee a similar process soon after release. I do, hope, however, that the Balance team learned from the first time around, and that they ignore their own best intentions and community whining and leave the game alone as much as possible after release.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
October 13 2012 08:34 GMT
#284
On October 13 2012 17:00 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 16:15 p14c wrote:
At this pace Blizzard will make Widow Mines completely useless..I knew from the start that it is a stupid designed unit.


What do you mean at this pace. Right now the widow rocket is incredibly powerful and this 1 second delay to burrow is far from making it completely useless lol.

I mean look at the swarmhost for example, that unit has been nerfed quiet a bit since day 1 and they were doing a lot more severe changes to that unit then the widow rocket so far (with only 1 nerf, it's not longer a widow mine either imo).

Quit arguing with biased people. They think that it was balanced that you can go in enemy base, burrow before Mines even died, and kill his whole army. And the whole point of the Mines were to be defensive, area control units, not offensive units.

And now, a nerf to 1 second burrow time is TOO MUCH! Just wow...
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Telenil
Profile Joined September 2010
France484 Posts
October 13 2012 08:37 GMT
#285
On October 13 2012 13:00 734pot wrote:
To the firebatmobile!
<3

I don't think a fast tempest rush is as scary as it sounds. It has 15 range, but not 15 sight, you can destroy whatever unit spots for it. Fast tempest + observer could be scary for a zerg, but that's too much tech and gas to be really "fast".
Mass Recall: Brood War campaigns on SC2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303166
Evangelist
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1246 Posts
October 13 2012 09:05 GMT
#286
In my opinion, what we're seeing now is the dying stages of a number of design ideas, namely:

- Entomb
- Purify
- Revelation

Entomb will be gone within a patch or two. Revelation will go as well and they will redesign the Oracle entirely to be a proper air support caster ala the Raven. As the beta gets bigger they will realize just how messy Entomb is.

Purify is in that awkward position of being either too weak or too strong. They'll eventually normalise it to range 9 and remove the detection. It'll be linked to the Nexus rather than the MSc.

Widow Mines just need an extra 1-2s on their burrow time and to be linked to the Armory. Rushing for Widow Mines to deny a third should be a viable strategy, but not so viable that it instantly wins no matter when the Factory goes down. Spore Crawler will go back on the evo chamber. I don't think they will kill off early banshee/DT builds entirely. It will still hit air and cloaked units.

Tempest will continue to get smaller. 2 of them (8 supply) one shot a worker from relative safety. That's actually pretty cool tbh. They have a mid game role of harassment from range which forces a specific response, hard counter the units they are supposed to hard counter and so on. Void Ray will lose its bonus to massive and be readjusted as a straight up engagement unit.

Grummler
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany743 Posts
October 13 2012 09:06 GMT
#287
On October 13 2012 13:00 734pot wrote:
To the firebatmobile!

na na na na na na na na ... firebatman!
workers, supply, money, workers, supply, money, workers, ...
Roth
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany165 Posts
October 13 2012 09:25 GMT
#288
MsC somehow becomes an uberunit.
Day[9] - "That stupid ice cream truck representing happiness!"
Zvenn3n
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Sweden1196 Posts
October 13 2012 09:34 GMT
#289
"Spore Crawler
This unit no longer requires an Evolution Chamber."

The death of DT strats T_T I feel bad for InCa.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
October 13 2012 09:43 GMT
#290
On October 13 2012 17:27 aZealot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 07:53 IPA wrote:
On October 13 2012 06:08 aZealot wrote:
No energize? I am a sad Zealot.

Man, this Beta is going to be long with this, as far as I can see, scattergun approach to HotS. I already find these frequent updates exhausting. Although, from another point of view, it's also a regular dose for the many SC2 'junkies' on TL. Too long between balance patches, and there will be withdrawal symptoms for many on TL. LOL.


WoL beta updates were just as frequent and just as drastic. I like Blizz's approach and I think it creates interesting data and perspective.


I was not on TL and did not participate or observe the WOL beta process. Other feedback I have heard around these parts tends to suggest that the HotS beta, while similar to the WOL beta, is actually worse in terms of scale and speed of change.

In any case, I thought about my post later and thought I might be too hard on the Blizzard team. My concern is that it is hard to know where the game is being directed or to make out the shape of the final destination. But, to be fair to Blizzard it is early days yet of an admittedly long Beta process. Secondly, it may be that the Dev team have a general idea of what the final game will be like, but are unsure of the elements making up that final product. Rather like assembling a jigsaw from an incomplete picture while also not being confident you have all the pieces. If it works, so be it. I guess we will have to wait and see.

My other concern, and this, I think, was borne out of the somewhat haphazard WOL beta process, is what happens after release of HotS?. The first year of WOL was full of continued patches, some quite substantive. We've really only had a settled game, more or less, for about a year or so. If this current HotS beta approach continues, I foresee a similar process soon after release. I do, hope, however, that the Balance team learned from the first time around, and that they ignore their own best intentions and community whining and leave the game alone as much as possible after release.

There is nothing"worse"with having big and frequent changes in a beta.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
MoonCricket
Profile Joined September 2011
222 Posts
October 13 2012 09:45 GMT
#291
I can't believe Widow Mine 2.0 is actually being taken seriously, when a unit causes you to literally add detection to Purify and remove the Evolotion Chamber requirement for Spore Crawler then you clearly have a game warping unit, and the search for a new core unit for Terran is going to ruin the game ... again

At least the Tempest is moving in the right direction, Oracle is still pointless.
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-13 09:54:02
October 13 2012 09:53 GMT
#292
On October 13 2012 18:45 MoonCricket wrote:
I can't believe Widow Mine 2.0 is actually being taken seriously, when a unit causes you to literally add detection to Purify and remove the Evolotion Chamber requirement for Spore Crawler then you clearly have a game warping unit, and the search for a new core unit for Terran is going to ruin the game ... again

At least the Tempest is moving in the right direction, Oracle is still pointless.


Why the big fuss, they already did that with the Marauder and Roach.
I still remember being salty...

At least they're taking *some* player feedback into consideration. e.g. Widow Mine 2.0, portable mini-missile silo!
Cauterize the area
rename
Profile Joined February 2012
Estonia329 Posts
October 13 2012 09:54 GMT
#293
They should remove all the detection buffs, and just find a way to nerf the early game widow-mine like:
Regular widow-mine = nerfed version
Widow-mine with armory/techlab upgrade = its current form.
Startyr
Profile Joined November 2011
Scotland188 Posts
October 13 2012 10:05 GMT
#294
I can not help feeling that they are making things overly complicated.

The widow mine coming so early has meant the other races need earlier detection which breaks the way other openers work. Why not just make the widow mine come later, require a tech building or it is initially visible when burrowed, until some research is done.

I like the change for hallucination and think some are overestimating how powerful it could be. Of course earlier hallucination meant they had to remove energise, which is a shame as that ability had a lot of interesting potential.

It feels like they are just trying to make the mothership core cover too many things. Why not remove the mothership core and oracle and just give protoss the arbiter already, with slightly altered abilities/research upgrades. Some version of stasis field would serve the same purpose as entomb on workers and has other uses(I don't actually know if it was ever really used for that?)

Perhaps add an ability to the nexus to turn it into a temporary cannon, it could require a cyber core, then there are interesting choices between saving energy for defence or chrono boost, opponents can try and force nexus cannons or hit times when protoss have used all of the energy on chrono. Banshees and Dts have their place vs Terran even though they have scan.
BuffaloSoldier
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy11 Posts
October 13 2012 10:07 GMT
#295
This patch it's really awful. Cloacked strategies are now totally useless cause every race has free detection... really bad. At least tempest changes seem nice, but i still believe that tempest will remove voidrays from this game.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-13 10:31:23
October 13 2012 10:30 GMT
#296
haha after the first shock over this patch, I actually like the name hellbat. As if some marines on seeing this this unit said: "This looks like a super firebat dood".
As for the better detection, it actually means they can reduce the timings on everything, faster shrine, cheaper cloak etc. they can nerf the anti air ability of the queen >:3. Burrow on t1 is probably to early since its only defensive for toss.

Overall I think they listened way to much to the community on these changes :3
Jotoco
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil1342 Posts
October 13 2012 10:52 GMT
#297
make it so that, without research, all hallucinations are killed in 1hit.
memcpy
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States459 Posts
October 13 2012 10:56 GMT
#298
Played a friend ZvP and he did proxy stargate tempest rush behind my mineral line. If you don't go 2 base spire vs that it's pretty much game over.
Kevoras
Profile Joined October 2011
United States105 Posts
October 13 2012 11:20 GMT
#299

Protoss loses its non-robo detection method....

so in other words, must build Robo first is back..

hmmm.. feel like a backward step.
For the People!
Tomasy
Profile Joined October 2010
Poland80 Posts
October 13 2012 11:29 GMT
#300
cloaked banshees or DTs are big commitment and serve high risk - high reward mechanism.
Adding more detection ONLY becouse of widow mines is utterly stupid, nerf widow mines instead of changing whole game to make them fit...
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