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United Kingdom12052 Posts
On October 13 2012 18:34 Zvenn3n wrote:
"Spore Crawler
This unit no longer requires an Evolution Chamber."
The death of DT strats T_T I feel bad for InCa.
How is it the death of DT builds?
DT builds worked in SC1 and zergs could detect with normal overlords :p
On October 13 2012 20:29 Tomasy wrote:
cloaked banshees or DTs are big commitment and serve high risk - high reward mechanism.
Adding more detection ONLY becouse of widow mines is utterly stupid, nerf widow mines instead of changing whole game to make them fit...
I think it's better to leave the widow mines as they are and buff everything else. Makes it more exciting and doesn't lead to boring games.
WOL, as much as I love it, was ruined by the fact stuff was over nerfed in the beta, meaning nothing was super powerful and it ruined certain units, like the tank.
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On October 13 2012 20:20 Kevoras wrote:
Protoss loses its non-robo detection method....
so in other words, must build Robo first is back..
hmmm.. feel like a backward step.
It's ok, purify gives us detection,..........
zzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz
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On October 13 2012 18:54 rename wrote:
They should remove all the detection buffs, and just find a way to nerf the early game widow-mine like:
Regular widow-mine = nerfed version
Widow-mine with armory/techlab upgrade = its current form.
Regular Widow mine= doesnt have Unstable Payload upgrade and is a one time use mine only.
Widow mine with armory/techlab upgrade= upgrade gives Unstable Payload giving the mine abillity to rebuild itself after use.
Makes sense.
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Viper
Viper acceleration has been increased from 2.125 to 3.
The radius of Blinding Cloud has increased from 1.5 to 2.
The only changes I see as good. I really don't like any of the others.
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On October 13 2012 05:55 Lactomar wrote:
Terran now has no cost efficient answer to the tempest. 300/150 for two vikings, 300/200 for a tempest. 1 tempest can take 2 vikings. What does does terran make to answer Tempest / Zealot now (assuming the protoss is clever enough to keep the tempests near cliffs and ridges)?
Cloaked Banshees.
Air base race ftw.
Also, you can produce 4 vikings well before that 2nd tempest every reaches you... it's dead in the water after it does minimal damage.
I'm sure pro players will be able to spot a tempest rush a mile away as well.
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On October 13 2012 19:56 memcpy wrote:
Played a friend ZvP and he did proxy stargate tempest rush behind my mineral line. If you don't go 2 base spire vs that it's pretty much game over.
Or scouting it, perhaps? Proxy-all ins usually kill you unless you scouted or got lucky.
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I'd love to see something more outside the box with the oracle, give it a small AoE ability that when it hits a unit, allows hallucinations to do damage to them or something new
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The thing that is scaring me the most is that I no longer have trust in Blizzard. I used to believe that this game would be better than WoL, by the time of release. But if some of these changes go through at the end of beta, this game is going to be seriously flawed.
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Did they just remove energize for sentries, hts and nexii just for another pathetic attempt to balance entomb....
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Free Hallucinations are gonna be mighty broken. They should have just decreased the cost / and or time for the upgrade.
Imagine all the troll strats you could do with this. 4 gate with mass hallucinations. 1 base colossus allin with 5 hallucinated colossi. Show an hallucinated void ray , then a hallucinate colossus and then attack with an tempest ...
Protoss scouting just got a lot better and this opens up yet another way to abuse blink stalkers in the early game.
It is even more hilarious that this was in response to "low level feedback".
They never cared that terran was severly underrepresented in WoLs lower leagues...
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Remove evo chamber requirement for spore crawler .....
Really Blizzard? Really? Pulled another "barracks requires a depot" change because you can't help yourself but give terran the most op fuckin openings in the game. In fact they are so broken you have to change something so fundamental as spore crawlers?
And wtf am I to do with spore crawlers versus mines anyways? You gave me nothing to fight back with, im still contained. All you did was make it so I don't just die to the first 2 mines. Thanks, I guess ...
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One-one-one...on hallucation being broken, I don't that will be the case. You still need to scout protoss and know timings. If you are depending on seeing the army makeup to determine what they are doing that is too late and too ineffective.
A colossi has a build time of 75 seconds, robo bay has a build time of 65 seconds and robo facility costs 65 seconds. Any player worth his salt, knows 4gate + mass colossi is not a real army.
Plus...for all the cases in which hallucinations would be effective...quite often what the case is that forcefield is MORE effective so ironically enough a protoss player who masses sentries for fake battle units, will end up using forcefield STILL instead.
I do hope there are creative uses for this. Especially vs ranged units like siege tanks, colossi, spines, etc...forcefield loses its effectiveness and creating a bunch of fake zealots or stalkers to soak up damage might be a great strategy.
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Well I just realised that the new spore crawler stuff (ie. no need an evo) also almost killed any stargate opening in PvZ, because imo zerg players will start to automatically build some spores without even knowing what's coming (I mean, it's not a huge investment for them)
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On October 13 2012 22:03 Figgy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 05:55 Lactomar wrote:
Terran now has no cost efficient answer to the tempest. 300/150 for two vikings, 300/200 for a tempest. 1 tempest can take 2 vikings. What does does terran make to answer Tempest / Zealot now (assuming the protoss is clever enough to keep the tempests near cliffs and ridges)? Cloaked Banshees. Air base race ftw. Also, you can produce 4 vikings well before that 2nd tempest every reaches you... it's dead in the water after it does minimal damage. I'm sure pro players will be able to spot a tempest rush a mile away as well.
I have the super awesome answer and it's called PDD. Yes ravens pdd will negate tempest shots.
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This entire expansion has just become laughably horrific. Words just cannot express my disappointment in Blizzard at this point.
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no hallu research fuck yeah
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Tempest changes are hugely interesting. A true harassment unit? Or a new defensive unit? Not being obvious gives me hope. Can they be used like a siege tank to defend random pressure while defending and expanding? And if no pressure, harass?
Hallucination change sounds great. The more scouting is available, the worse map hackers will lose. And games become less coin-flippy. And does it make sentries not useless against widow mines (mines have always gone through forcefields even when they weren't missles)?
Losing reveal on Oracle is really really sad though. Gaining reveal on MSC's purify is good vs mines, but useless vs. super fast swarmhost rush. So still have to go observer vs swarmhosts... but maybe that rush has counters enough now due to MSC's normal attack.
Terribly sad about losing energize. I just wanted to see it used in clutch situations with sentries or high templar. Would much rather the old entomb with energize in the game... gives Protoss more things to do.
3 second burrow time on window mine seems reasonable. They actually die on offense sometimes now... wasn't the case before (stalker and queen low dps). Still, how is Protoss going to walk across the map with mines hitting observers? Seems like a major problem still. Is Blizzard telling P to rush Tempests for harass vs. Terran and avoid ground? Maybe with MSC early poke you see mines and adjust to robo immediately. Seems like twilight tech PvT [EDIT: for early game] is at it's weakest unless Halluc can somehow do enough vs mines.
Spore crawler change all because of the widow mine... if it wasn't for the new tempest I'd be crying fowl in a big way. As if air opening PvZ wasn't hard enough. But with the new tempest... 1 tempest + 4 phoenix harass good? All about the timing. Makes TvZ banshee all-ins harder. Not sure if that was necessary, but if widow mines stay the way they are I bet it will be.
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I love the halluc change; now that it isn't an upgrade, it can be used as a staple in Protoss play as opposed to a gimmick, as it was before.
Hellbat is an hilarious name, they are admitting that they are bringing back the firebat, which is cool.
I also think that now Protoss have hallucination that a LOT of the problems they once had with early-game pressure will be solved, and we'll be seeing a lot more interesting micro choices (generally if the enemy is rushing the Protoss they skip detection, which makes hallucination even stronger.
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On October 13 2012 20:52 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 18:34 Zvenn3n wrote:
"Spore Crawler
This unit no longer requires an Evolution Chamber."
The death of DT strats T_T I feel bad for InCa. How is it the death of DT builds? DT builds worked in SC1 and zergs could detect with normal overlords :p Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 20:29 Tomasy wrote:
cloaked banshees or DTs are big commitment and serve high risk - high reward mechanism.
Adding more detection ONLY becouse of widow mines is utterly stupid, nerf widow mines instead of changing whole game to make them fit... I think it's better to leave the widow mines as they are and buff everything else. Makes it more exciting and doesn't lead to boring games. WOL, as much as I love it, was ruined by the fact stuff was over nerfed in the beta, meaning nothing was super powerful and it ruined certain units, like the tank.
Did you watch BW PvZ? Do you know how slow overlord were and Toss can dominate air in the early game. Things are totally different now.
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EPT
