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On October 06 2012 13:24 Jehct wrote:
Don't know why they don't expand their whole 'field bubble' idea - if the Void Siphon casted a 200hp bubble-stasis on a building that disabled it and siphoned money until destroyed it would be a lot more interesting to me. Like a weird mix between contaminate, disruption web and entomb.
Even if it was like a 5 energy 'attack' that only lasted a few seconds (with a 50hp bubble or something), leading it to be spam-casted or constantly re-casted, it'd be a lot more interesting. Something that makes the opponent actually want to stop the harass beyond "der they're getting 3 minerals/second =("
I thought they were on the right path with Phase shield as well. It's incredibly one dimensional to decide which type of (quite lame) harass you want to do, instead of deciding if you want your Oracle out on it's OWN to harass, or to supplement your army as a caster. I know it's only beta, but this is definitely the wrong way to go, in my opinion.
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On October 06 2012 13:40 Thorrissey wrote:
I thought they were on the right path with Phase shield as well. It's incredibly one dimensional to decide which type of (quite lame) harass you want to do, instead of deciding if you want your Oracle out on it's OWN to harass, or to supplement your army as a caster. I know it's only beta, but this is definitely the wrong way to go, in my opinion.
Agreed, I expected them to give it a better defensive spell. Because god knows the Stargate units need support. Seeing a harassment spell replace a defensive spell, instead of the harassment spell we already had, makes me scratch my head. I wouldn't mind if we got the cloaking field back, honestly.
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If they reduced Phoenix Graviton beam energy to 25, I'd be happy with that as a "harass unit" out of SG.
I'm not really sure what they want to achieve with the Oracle, but I guess you could say that about a lot of HotS, thus far.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On October 06 2012 14:05 aZealot wrote:
If they reduced Phoenix Graviton beam energy to 25, I'd be happy with that as a "harass unit" out of SG.
I'm not really sure what they want to achieve with the Oracle, but I guess you could say that about a lot of HotS, thus far.
Exactly, Phoenix harass is rather potent, but limited by the energy you can stockpile. It's always a kick in the teeth to get a bunch of unscouted phoenix up, hit a Zerg with no spores and run out of gravitons.
Even without such a tweak, Phoenixes are pretty good harassment units as they are now, and the Oracle could have a dual harassment/support caster role.
I for one liked the possibilities of phase shield, apparently nobody really played around with it in Beta but it at least gave the Oracle a bit of utility. This change pissed me off because it appeared that Blizzard were actually on the right track with something, and they just went back to making the Oracle a gimmicky, boring unit.
Widow mine seems potentially potent, don't like that it bypasses detection though but I guess it can be tweaked.
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The 40 sec build time for mines is a LOT, don't like that.
Everything else sounds nice.
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Widowmine is gonna get nerfed. That's way too strong.
Oracle change is also nuts.
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They don't get it anymore. What's wrong with Blizzard these days?
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On October 06 2012 14:13 TigerKarl wrote:
They don't get it anymore. What's wrong with Blizzard these days?
Almost all of their changes are on point with the community's suggestions. They really can't win.
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On October 06 2012 13:15 Thorrissey wrote:
Let me get this straight...The widow mine kills cloaked units without detection. Protoss flies observer in to reveal Widow Mine. Observer dies? That sounds realllllly dumb. I'm all for drastic changes, but all of these are real head-scratchers.
gues what happened to ravens and overseers all along?
you have to keep them back.
Now it's easier to deal with them since you can send in decoy units that trigger the mines first.
On October 06 2012 13:18 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 13:15 Thorrissey wrote:
Let me get this straight...The widow mine kills cloaked units without detection. Protoss flies observer in to reveal Widow Mine. Observer dies? That sounds realllllly dumb. I'm all for drastic changes, but all of these are real head-scratchers. The sight range of the obs is more than the Widow Mine range. But yeah, you will have to babysit your obs a lot more now, which may or may not be a bad thing. I'm wondering if maybe hitting cloaked ground units, but not air units would be something worth changing. If you need a lore excuse, just say they use seismic sensors or whatever to detect cloaked ground units. However, I suppose we should wait until this has been played around with before we start suggesting changes again haha
I feel like the "seismic sensor" might be the way to go, nice idea.
I'm having a lot of fun with peopl going 4gate against me by the way, they can't warp on the highground and the widow mines just troll them to death.
but I actually feel like this is more balanced than it was before, silly all ins were just too good and greedy, macro oriented play too weak, especially in lower leagues.
once people start to play more greedy early aggression and "all ins" will be better again.
just think of the times were terran could go barracks before depot and when they removed that I thought "terran can never do early pressure again", yet we se 11 11 rax owning every zerg.
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On October 06 2012 14:19 Crawdad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 14:13 TigerKarl wrote:
They don't get it anymore. What's wrong with Blizzard these days? Almost all of their changes are on point with the community's suggestions. They really can't win.
Well you can design these units that they work somehow ok like WoL Units, but they don't seem to be able to see the fundamental flaws in this game. If they don't realize what way they're going, there'll be another game in 2 years and Starcraft just dies miserably, like Diablo3 did, where they didn't get it either.
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I'm having trouble understanding how you people let your Observers die...
Obs have 11 sight range... Which means that, from the edge of your sight range to the edge of the mine's attack range, is actually greater than the mine's attack range. What the hell were you doing with your Observers?
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It will auto attack cloaked units without having detection
Whats the point of this. Terran already have ample detection, they don't need to be anymore impervious to cloaked units.
..
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On October 06 2012 14:32 Crawdad wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding how you people let your Observers die...
Obs have 11 sight range... Which means that, from the edge of your sight range to the edge of the mine's attack range, is actually greater than the mine's attack range. What the hell were you doing with your Observers?
When you queue up a few move commands to send it towards an enemy base or check possible army movement/drop paths. w/e, it will just mean you have to babysit the observers a bit more, which I think is fine. Hell, maybe even get Protoss players to make a second robo earlier so they don't waste Colossus/Immortal time by remaking observers
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I really like new changes to orackle but its just way too weak. From zerg you not gonna get any minerals at all becoz of building placement. Terran just can build viking... and protoss just blinks. ITS WAY TOO WEAK. BUFF IT
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On October 06 2012 14:32 Crawdad wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding how you people let your Observers die...
Obs have 11 sight range... Which means that, from the edge of your sight range to the edge of the mine's attack range, is actually greater than the mine's attack range. What the hell were you doing with your Observers?
Waypoint on the minimap to opponents base. Godspeed observer!
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great changes to the widow mine but i have a few concerns on the units cost for the amount of damage it produces. as i understand it the mine costs 75/25 the same as a baneling(or close enough) and it is cloacked (without the need to research anything) and has splash and can re-arm itself while still being cloaked and can shoot cloaked units and can be reactored out and doesnt die after shooting its almost un avoidable exploding splash dealing missile..... a great idea but waaaaay to cost effective. kinda like a burrowed raven seeker missile. hope they keep the idea and balance it up. on a smaller note gotta agree with everyone on the oracle. seems pointless when entomb can instantly deny mining time rather then sitting there in plain sight taking 3 minerals a second lol
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Well the oracle could be used in some sort of goofy zealot builds where you have more minerals than normal, but I have serious doubts about how often it can sit there channeling.
Make siphon something like it builds up a shield battery power that can only be used on other units. Similar to how shields regenerate, this would have an inverse effect of depleting at the same rate that shields regen if not used after a delay.
I like that the widow mine can spend itself on hallucinations, which would make for some gosu Seed plays.
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seems to me they are trying to make cool things instead of viable things.
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If you can lift a factory into someone's base, they're in a bad way.
Until they get detection, your mine will be getting 2 - 4 free worker kills every missile refresh. Terran can just press C and be done with it, but everybody else has to evacuate their mineral line every few moments and offer a sacrifice to David Kim before mining again.
If you have a lot of shooting stuff at the front of your base, mines are probably easier to deal with than before, due to the lack of control terrans have over what and when they shoot...just remember where they were planted.
I guarantee you this will get dragged into a back alley and beaten to near-death with a nerf bat by the end of the week.
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I am fairly certain they should just remove all detection from terran units and just give them global detection.
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EPT
