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TelecoM
United States10671 Posts
already done it several times. I don't know but to me this just seems way to strong, what do you guys think? I just think that the Abduct ability maybe shouldn't work on massive units, but then you wouldn't be able to abduct colossi, so maybe Blizzard should change it so you just cannot abduct the mothership? Discuss. | ||
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
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ant-1
Canada149 Posts
We need to not have to rely on the Mothership for lategame PvZ, that's all. They're trying to fix that with tempest, hopefully they'll succeed. I sure hope I do not have to rely on a money vortex anymore... | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Hopefully some P pro will figure out how to combat late game zerg without the mothership and that can become the metagame standard. | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On October 06 2012 05:03 Promethelax wrote: Hopefully some P pro will figure out how to combat late game zerg without the mothership and that can become the metagame standard. HotS Stargate, probably. | ||
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rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
As it stands right now, the tempest is too slow to counter broodlords as they can be chased down by corrupters or mutas quite easy. Oracle isnt that effective vs zerg as they can afford to put spines in their mineral lines and voids are easily countered by fungal. Maybe if the tempest has some change, or perhaps if the carrier was somehow made better this might be the case. But as of right now, I don't think the Stargate is the answer. | ||
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KevoStream
Peru20 Posts
they should change it | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 06 2012 05:27 gedatsu wrote: Use phase shield. They will change the phase shield probably, or maybe even remove it, at least that is what Dustin Browder said. On the other hand, I really think that Vortex should be about Control, and not about Archon Toilet. It could make units invulnerable to all damage for 5 seconds after the Vortex finished, but they are also frozen for those 5 seconds. And on the other hand, I think that Mothership shouldn't be able to get Neural'd or Abducted. | ||
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Siracuz
United States15 Posts
Fungal is enough to stop an army, so why do Broodlings also prevent movement of units? It's pretty crazy how units like the Archon and maybe even the Stalker get caught up on little Broodlings they could step over. I mean, the Archon floats, and it get's stuck on a few Broodlings that it could fly right over? The problem with Broodlord/Infestor is that you cannot move towards it. Eliminate Broodlings locking down certain units, and I don't think the Vortex will be absolutely necessary. Archons are etheral, and maybe for that matter should not even have unit collision with any unit. I hope I didn't overlook something important about my point but I don't really have time to sit here and contemplate every unit vs the Broodlord in terms of balance. | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On October 06 2012 05:55 Siracuz wrote: What about this: Fungal is enough to stop an army, so why do Broodlings also prevent movement of units? It's pretty crazy how units like the Archon and maybe even the Stalker get caught up on little Broodlings they could step over. I mean, the Archon floats, and it get's stuck on a few Broodlings that it could fly right over? The problem with Broodlord/Infestor is that you cannot move towards it. Eliminate Broodlings locking down certain units, and I don't think the Vortex will be absolutely necessary. Archons are etheral, and maybe for that matter should not even have unit collision with any unit. I hope I didn't overlook something important about my point but I don't really have time to sit here and contemplate every unit vs the Broodlord in terms of balance. Having no collision with any unit? Imagine now archon colossi with some void ray army, it'll be stacked into 1 single point. That's not a solution. Back on topic, I think mothership should also some kind of immunity against this maybe like ultralisk have immunity to slow. Mothership could have immunity to abduct. If not we can always use hts to feedback those vipers. | ||
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Siracuz
United States15 Posts
On October 06 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote: Having no collision with any unit? Imagine now archon colossi with some void ray army, it'll be stacked into 1 single point. That's not a solution. Back on topic, I think mothership should also some kind of immunity against this maybe like ultralisk have immunity to slow. Mothership could have immunity to abduct. If not we can always use hts to feedback those vipers. Don't be so quick to blow the OP whistle, esp about the biggest "maybe" I wrote. a) Zerg deals with Colossi just fine right now, and they don't stack b) 1 Infestor will kill all of those Voids stacked up on one point c) I didn't specify but I didn't mean that Archons wouldn't collide with themselves d) That army which wouldn't be effective in the first place would never see the light of day in a match due to build times and gas intensity. I'm going to just go ahead and post on Blizzard forums, as I think it may be a good fix, but here's the jist: 1-Archons don't collide with Broodlings and Zerglings. 2-Debatable but Fungal does not lock them down. They are made of gasses and Massive. Not colliding with Broodlings alone may not be enough, but this might be too much in certain situations. Example: if they're chain fungaled, the fix does nothing, but if Zerg doesn't have something to deal with them quick like Roaches or enough Broodlord dps, it becomes too much. 3-Neural Parasite would be the go to ability to deal with Archons (which works great mid-game but rarely seen); right now all 3 Infestor abilities are very good against them. They can't kill Infested Terran if they can't move. With these changes tested, Mothership Vortex can be adjusted or downright removed for all I care. It's the most dependent ability in the matchup and something needs to be done with it. | ||
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MasterCynical
505 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On October 08 2012 14:01 MasterCynical wrote: the only thing im worried about is abduct vs motherships and mothership cores since being a hero unit, it would cripple the protoss deathball too much. Wait... isn't that a good thing? If you're a Zerg player and you want to win 100% of your games, of course it is! Fact is Abduct will kill Mech late game by tearing apart Siege Tank positions and do the same to Protoss by pulling in the Mothership. Abduct + Neural is better than having a Replicant who can Replicate massive units. It has to go, late game Zerg deathballs are difficult enough to stop, but doing it with Bio and Gateway units alone is too much to ask. Not to mention it waters down the game. If Abduct is useful then people simply won't build units that are worth Abducting, so we'll see Mass Blink Stalker armies or Marine/Marauder balls. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On October 08 2012 14:15 BronzeKnee wrote: If you're a Zerg player and you want to win 100% of your games, of course it is! Fact is Abduct will kill Mech late game by tearing apart Siege Tank positions and do the same to Protoss by pulling in the Mothership. Abduct + Neural is better than having a Replicant who can Replicate massive units. It has to go, late game Zerg deathballs are difficult enough to stop, but doing it with Bio and Gateway units alone is too much to ask. I'm going to stop you right there. Fix the infestor before touching with the viper.. which is balanced. This is how you fix the infestor. Make fungul a 65% slowing spell Increase NP range to 8 Ok? Now if zergs AA is weaker or they have deathball problems..... YOU BUFF the hydra and ultralisk for compensation. For the hydralisk Bring it back to WOL beta stats( look up the hydralisks patch history, those 2 nerfs it got need to be un-nerfed) For the ultralisk Increase the damage to 20(+20 vs armored) and increase the splash damage to 50%(Because the ultralisk has alot of problems, doing these changes would help it greatly) | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On October 08 2012 14:20 Zergrusher wrote: I'm going to stop you right there. Fix the infestor before touching with the viper.. which is balanced. This is how you fix the infestor. Make fungul a 65% slowing spell Increase NP range to 8 Ok? Now if zergs AA is weaker or they have deathball problems..... YOU BUFF the hydra and ultralisk for compensation. For the hydralisk Bring it back to WOL beta stats( look up the hydralisks patch history, those 2 nerfs it got need to be un-nerfed) For the ultralisk Increase the damage to 20(+20 vs armored) and increase the splash damage to 50%(Because the ultralisk has alot of problems, doing these changes would help it greatly) If you increase NP range and leave Abduct in the game it doesn't change the fact that Terran and Protoss can't build any unit worth Abducting and NPing. No Thors, Colossus, Immortals, Siege Tanks, Motherships, Battle Cruisers, ect... because if they did build them they would just add to the Swarm. And if Fungal doesn't root units, then Blink Stalkers will walk all over Zerg. There is going to be a huge increase in pre-Hive all-ins if Abduct isn't removed in PvZ. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On October 08 2012 14:34 BronzeKnee wrote: If you increase NP range and leave Abduct in the game it doesn't change the fact that Terran and Protoss can't build any unit worth Abducting and NPing. No Thors, Colossus, Immortals, Siege Tanks, Motherships, Battle Cruisers, ect... because if they did build them they would just add to the Swarm. And if Fungal doesn't root units, then Blink Stalkers will walk all over Zerg. There is going to be a huge increase in pre-Hive all-ins if Abduct isn't removed in PvZ. Think about this for a second, just think. NP went from 7 to 9 and now back to 7 8 is the perfect middle range, and is balanced. Also You can still build those units, you act like THERES NO ARMIES(or other units) IN BETWEEN. And about the blink stalkers.......... Remember that patch? well blink stalkers would still get rooted by fungul. And lol in HOTS, theres actaully less early all ins going on. So look PVZ and TVZ with abduct and NP is fine. Both viable options, and both that are shut down by high templars... and ghosts. The main problem in PVZ is the mother ship. it should be removed, and the oracle should have the cloaking field. I already told How to fix zerg, and now I just explain how to make the oracle better and remove the stupid mothership gimmic. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On October 08 2012 14:46 Zergrusher wrote: Think about this for a second, just think. NP went from 7 to 9 and now back to 7 8 is the perfect middle range, and is balanced. Also You can still build those units, you act like THERES NO ARMIES(or other units) IN BETWEEN. And about the blink stalkers.......... Remember that patch? well blink stalkers would still get rooted by fungul. And lol in HOTS, theres actaully less early all ins going on. So look PVZ with abduct and NP is fine. Both viable options, and both that are shut down by high templars... The main problem in PVZ is the mother ship. it should be removed, and the oracle should have the cloaking field. I already told How to fix zerg, and now I just explain how to make the oracle better and remove the stupid mothership gimmic. You don't need to put your posts in the form of a poem with giant spacing. Nor do you need to be condescending telling me to think. I also didn't say early all-ins, I'm talking about three base PvZ timings that hit before Hive, there are plenty of them. So why don't you stay on topic regarding Abduct rather than talking about all your wonderful balance changes that "fix" the game. | ||
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