Vortex is honestly a bad ability, because it creates dumb game ending situations either way.
However the way Zerg works with Larva (instant re-max with whatever units you want), with the units they have, Protoss is going to need something as powerful as Ghosts with 45 damage Snipe to even have a chance late game without Vortex.
And no friends, the Tempest is not the solution. Even if they are out front, if multiple Vipers are rushing the Mothership they'll focus down one Viper and overkill it, while the rest are able to Abduct the Mothership.
As I've posted in the other PvZ thread, the best way to avoid this is to remove Vortex from the game and balance HotS around that. Vortex is a spell that hasn't improved any matchup, all it's done is allow Protoss to survive in PvZ in WoL, and of course decide who wins in PvP. Now that they're trying to fix the holes in the matchup, Vortex has to be addressed or PvZ will always rely on it and the balance of units like Tempest/Viper will suffer for it.
Vortex is honestly a bad ability, because it creates dumb game ending situations either way.
However the way Zerg works with Larva (instant re-max with whatever units you want), with the units they have, Protoss is going to need something as powerful as Ghosts with 45 damage Snipe to even have a chance late game without Vortex.
And no friends, the Tempest is not the solution. Even if they are out front, if multiple Vipers are rushing the Mothership they'll focus down one Viper and overkill it, while the rest are able to Abduct the Mothership.
Yea great! Always make sure to lead with your mothership. :/
On October 09 2012 05:34 ledarsi wrote: This whole thread is simply an outgrowth of the fact that SC2 is quite unstable compared to BW, in that just a few large units will determine the outcome of battles. Colossi are the paradigm case for protoss- their existence is a huge problem for the opponent, much more so than other protoss assets. And because the protoss army is dependent on a few colossi, then if the other player can neutralize or mitigate the colossi, then suddenly protoss is in a bind.
Check back in 10 years and see how its doing.
Anyway, this thread is an outgrowth of peoples impatience rather than instability. If something doesn't seem perfect at first sight, people automatically say "NERF/BUFF IT!".... No, that is not the answer and this thread (and many other threads on TL), courtesy of the OP, is taking the wrong approach to the problem. Try to think of CURRENT solutions to the problem instead of wanting immediate changes. Wait for it to play out and then make changes if it won't work out.
On October 12 2012 03:19 ClanRH.TV wrote: Check back in 10 years and see how its doing.
Anyway, this thread is an outgrowth of peoples impatience rather than instability. If something doesn't seem perfect at first sight, people automatically say "NERF/BUFF IT!".... No, that is not the answer and this thread (and many other threads on TL), courtesy of the OP, is taking the wrong approach to the problem. Try to think of CURRENT solutions to the problem instead of wanting immediate changes. Wait for it to play out and then make changes if it won't work out.
I agree, but that doesnt change the fact that abduct is a mechanic that limits the opponent rather than enable your own play. I am against that sort of ability on a conceptual level (force fields, fungal etc.). I also fail to see how this doesnt also help maintain the already stale late game of zvp when protoss already sit around waiting for a perfect vortex. This kind of situation is probably not going to change anytime soon, with or without hots units as they currently are.
Viper abduct is not too strong. Why do people keep saying stuff is too strong. Let it play out before blizzard nerfs every new thing in the game till it sucks and then we'll have wings of liberty all over again.
Things should be incredibly strong for each race - it will balance over time like brood war. Give it time.
Anyway, this thread is an outgrowth of peoples impatience rather than instability. If something doesn't seem perfect at first sight, people automatically say "NERF/BUFF IT!".... No, that is not the answer and this thread (and many other threads on TL), courtesy of the OP, is taking the wrong approach to the problem. Try to think of CURRENT solutions to the problem instead of wanting immediate changes. Wait for it to play out and then make changes if it won't work out.
I'm not suggesting any changes when I say that there are actually very few units on the board in SC2 compared to BW. And each one of those units is considerably more powerful, and more significant, than in BW. There was no such thing as a 6 supply ground unit in BW, and most units used were 1-2 supply, rather than 2-3 supply. The limit is still 200 though, which means fewer total units, and those units are bigger. This is one source of instability. It is no accident that people are complaining extensively about Colossi and Motherships and how Carriers are terrible. Few, big units --> Instability.
If you want to talk changes, I would say that supply costs across the board should be reduced. Roaches and hydras and ultralisks (oh my!), as well as colossi, thors, siege tanks, swarm hosts, widow mines, oracles... So many units in the game would benefit from it being possible to actually have more quantity, even if that would require lowering stats. These units are made interesting by how they play, not by how big their numbers are.
EPT
