The cybercore req. is a good delay it gives enough time to prepare for 3gate pressure w/ MC.

Based on the above changes, beta players SHOULD expect blink stalker + MC / 3gate + MC harass as the new 4gate.

Good news is, destroying the MC will put a P player behind compared to a standard blink stalker w/ Obs.
As seen in some of the HOTS streams.

JKM

Denmark419 Posts

September 30 2012 12:56 GMT

#402

On September 30 2012 21:43 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 30 2012 21:28 JKM wrote:

On September 30 2012 17:32 sVnteen wrote:

On September 30 2012 17:14 Psychobabas wrote:
Protoss now freely scouts with mothership core without robo and observer.

It is completely broken...

? why?

The speed of the Mothership Core (MC) means it can reach the opponent very early alongside a gateway army. The core gives vision uphill so the protoss can pick off walling structures and units without ever getting close to the ramp at a stage in the game where the terran will have few units if he went for early CC. Furthermore it forces the terran into getting a fast viking or produce many marines (low marinenumbers gets picked off too easily leaving no AA against the core).

Overall I think speed of the MC is problematic for PvT where the mere possiblity of MC+GW pressure removes 50% of the potential terran openings, because they simply can't deal with the core. This is amplified on certain maps where the ramp is placed kind of unfortunate from a defensive standpoint.

It's too early to determine whether it is truly an imbalance or if terran has 10 viable openings that deals with the MC pressure in a reliable fashion, but from the looks of it protosses have been given a very easy PvT opening and if we know terrans their response to hardship will be going back to 1/1/1 that would probably deal well with MC.

edit:

On September 30 2012 21:26 GinDo wrote:
Also you have to remember that HOTs will play a valuable role regarding the longevity of HOTS. If HOTS does not manage to respark interest in SC2 as an Esport, SC2 might not have a huge fan base once LOTV come out. Ehh, but that's just my opinion on the subject.

We might look back at this 3 years down the pipeline and look at how crappy WOL and HOTS were once LOTV is established, asking our selves how the heck did we put up with that crap.

Is there any real RTS competitor out there? If not the core RTS fans will stick with SC2. So unless one of the other big RTS franchises (C&C, AoE, etc.) comes out with something appealing in the coming years I don't see SC2 dying as an e-Sport. It may however not be as popular as it is now, but alot of us don't like MOBA games as a replacement for RTS!

Protoss will have even less unit than terran if p went for 1g expand.

I don't think 1gate expand would be the standard go to build with MC in the picture. Costing 100/100 the MC is a significant investment and I doubt that it is safe to open 1g expansion into infrastructure + MC. I think building MC right after 1g expansion would take away from other aspects of that opening making it weaker against a couple of normal terran builds.
I rather think 2/3 gates with pressure while expanding safely behind is a better choice, because it gives the P quite a lot units early that can poke hard at almost any terran opening and outright deny the natural for greedy terran openings.

That said I think the MC is better in its current form. The old MC with recall was kind of imba because it allowed protosses to suicide push into regions where they normally would not have an option to retreat, but now with recall they can. Having to bring the MC is a weakness to such play, because it can be killed fairly easily and the movement speed is not very fast, so the opponent has more time to respond and defend in various places.

Adonminus

Israel543 Posts

September 30 2012 13:13 GMT

#403

I think the mothership core still has a lot of issues offensively:

1) It can do early game harassment to workers.

2) It still buffs early pushes even by dealing a small bit of damage.

3) It can be used just like overlords to scout early game and you can't hide tech from them cause they're so fast.

Foxxan

Sweden3427 Posts

September 30 2012 13:34 GMT

#404

THis makes all races have fast scout in the game

zerg: overlord
terran: new raper
protoss: mothership core

More skill now

Roth

Germany165 Posts

September 30 2012 13:37 GMT

#405

I do not like the fact they change the MC. Thought that it should be a defensive unit/building. Although liked it more when MC was still attached to the nexus.

Hattori_Hanzo

Singapore1229 Posts

September 30 2012 13:55 GMT

#406

On September 30 2012 22:34 Foxxan wrote:
THis makes all races have fast scout in the game

zerg: overlord
terran: new raper
protoss: mothership core

More skill now

terran: new raper
WHAT

kiklion

99 Posts

September 30 2012 14:01 GMT

#407

Though, statistically someone else suggested it before I did, I like to think the 'lasts until cancelled' and 'regens no energy while on' aspects were taken from my suggestion posted here

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370408&currentpage=6#110

and on the Bnet boards and reddit.

awesomoecalypse

United States2235 Posts

September 30 2012 14:07 GMT

#408

These are all good changes I think, especially the Mothership Core.

awesomoecalypse

United States2235 Posts

September 30 2012 14:12 GMT

#409

It is cost inefficient as an addition to your army, except in that it allows you to teleport away--which is the whole point of the unit in the first place, to give Protoss more ability to get aggressive in the early and mid-game without going all-in. It is also much more expensive than an Overlord, so while it does open up new scouting options (which is a good thing, as it helps reduce randomness early on in the game and thereby cut down on build order wins), if the enemy does manage to pick it off it can really set you back.

Fab1lous

Germany4 Posts

September 30 2012 14:21 GMT

#410

I think they are going into the right direction with P

More oppotunities for a race means more fun :D

Prime Directive

United States186 Posts

September 30 2012 15:13 GMT

#411

I like the core in its current form. What about putting a maximum number of units that can be recalled to avoid deathball play? You could lower the energy cost with this kind of restriction too.

NuKedUFirst

Canada3139 Posts

September 30 2012 15:36 GMT

#412

On September 29 2012 08:08 avilo wrote:
That's it for Terran? -_- good change though, 4 sec to burrow seemed like forever. Supply cost is still too expensive imo.

I agree, It feels like theyre gonnna get used at often as burrowed banelings in a way. Cool but not used often.. imo bring back the spider mine, make a new unit that just lays the mines for like 25 minerals each or something with a cooldown.

Hattori_Hanzo

Singapore1229 Posts

September 30 2012 15:44 GMT

#413

On October 01 2012 00:13 Prime Directive wrote:
I like the core in its current form. What about putting a maximum number of units that can be recalled to avoid deathball play? You could lower the energy cost with this kind of restriction too.

There is a limit to units recalled, range 7 from the MC, or diameter of 14.
This will favor zealot/colossi builds as they are much more compact than stalker.

Hattori_Hanzo

Singapore1229 Posts

September 30 2012 15:52 GMT

#414

On September 29 2012 07:51 HelloSon wrote:
"The duration of Activate Mine has been decreased to 2 sec."

what does this mean? takes less channeling time from mine to attacking?

Reduced burrow time is good, allows widow mine as used same as a siege line.
Nice!

Millet

Sweden143 Posts

September 30 2012 16:12 GMT

#415

On October 01 2012 00:44 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:

Show nested quote +

There is a limit to units recalled, range 7 from the MC, or diameter of 14.
This will favor zealot/colossi builds as they are much more compact than stalker.

I guarantee you that any maxed army from protoss will be recalled completely with a range of 7 (diameter of 14). Even mass stalker would be completely teleported.

Cronicus

Sweden28 Posts

September 30 2012 16:15 GMT

#416

This will help out alot in ealy aggressions

kmillz

United States1548 Posts

September 30 2012 18:07 GMT

#417

I like the changes, especially MSC speed. Can't tell if the swarm hosts got buffed or nerfed.

s3rp

Germany3192 Posts

September 30 2012 18:43 GMT

#418

I really dislike the offensive capeabilities of the MSC. Don't think it'll stay . It comes way too early and forces you to get AA super fast everytime or you'll probably just lose the game to a intended defensive unit / structure. Especially the granting vision so stalkers can pick off your wall while you can't really do anything against it is very annoying. It's not even that much of a commitment unlike Voidrays for example. Right now you have to open with alot of Marines or fast tech to a Viking everytime you play TvP .

Right now just the fact that the MSC exists and can be used offensivly massively limits openings you can do as Terran. Anything with Marauders/Reapers/Helion expand is basically not possible . You need decent Anti-Air first. Terran doesn't have Queens that work as AA not matter how they chose to play.

They will probably have to limit the MSC's movement range and give it the old recall back.

Tsuki.eu

Portugal1049 Posts

September 30 2012 18:50 GMT

#419

On September 30 2012 22:34 Foxxan wrote:
THis makes all races have fast scout in the game

zerg: overlord
terran: new raper
protoss: mothership core

More skill now

Skill is on the fact that you have to interpret the limited amount of information you get and react to it, not move click the overlord thats parked next to a base and just get the counter unit

rEaper btw.

Chrono000

Korea (South)358 Posts

September 30 2012 19:26 GMT

#420

so overpowered now the protoss units and really really easy to use them all.