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Troussej
France5 Posts
From a pure game design point of vue, it make sens to automatize the split. You don't see virtual poker games where you have to deal the cards yourself... There are more important mechanics to focus on (production and micro... yeah a-click pseudo-goliath!!) Plus it solve the game begining lags. About the learning aspect... the campaign & tutorials are there for a reason. If you never played a FPS game, you maybe don't know the controls, etc... same here. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:19 sAsImre wrote: someone never played bw here. It's cool to not have to bother with it but that doesn't mean it doesn't take any skill. Hell without it 2raxing'd be really hard and rewarding if you're able to macro behind it. Are you comparing auto-rally to automining at the beginning of the match so people with lag doesn't lose 4-5 secs per match ? If you just wanted to go full BW hipster, atleast do it right, not saying nonsense. | ||
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sqrt
1210 Posts
These days we just select all workers on minerals and count to see if there are more/less than what we need. If they are, we remove/add as needed. Is it so bad that this manual, tedious task is automated? I don't think so, the worst that could happen is a bronze league player would know how many workers he needs per mineral patch. Overall, I like that change. Sending your workers and building one at the start - not so much. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:36 Godwrath wrote: Are you comparing auto-rally to automining at the beginning of the match so people with lag doesn't lose 4-5 secs per match ? If you just wanted to go full BW hipster, atleast do it right, not saying nonsense. there are community inspired solutions to this problem, posted on blizzards website in highly rated threads including: -Fixing the broken code that causes this in the first place (top level machines sometimes having delay at game start. completely unacceptable) -Count down timer after map and game have loaded. 3 - 2 -1 now both players are able to control stuff at the same time | ||
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Dali.
New Zealand689 Posts
On September 06 2012 07:01 Andr3 wrote: Oversaturation is currently happening all up to upper master levels. It's currently a SKILL to count workers fast+select the appropriate amount to send to an un-saturated base. There is a distinction between a player who excels at this and a player who does not. This guy gets it. Saturation awareness is an important skill in solid macro. Long before any of this was presented in HotS I was always secretly proud of how well I could optimumly saturate bases without even needing to check the number of workers mining. I was able to see/feel if I was over, under or spot on because of the many games I had played. My practice was validated by gaining a skill that manifests subconsciously. Displaying it numerically reduces that skill to non-existence. Rather than needing to box check (a action/time investment) or trust one's implicit awareness of saturation (a reward of practice, potentially subject to error) I am handed the information without any effirt on my part. I personally don't see the need. A quick search and a few minutes reading are all you need to learn about saturation. Once you've got that knowledge it is yours to implenment and perfect. Changing something like this will help lower skilled players, which is to be encouraged, but it also shows no consideration to the higher skilled players whom have likely invested far greater levels of practice and dedication to acquiring their skillset. Every change must strike a comfortable balance where softening mechanics doesn't encroach on those who have worked on crystalising the mechanics in question. In short, I don't think the reasons are sufficient for the change. Also in a game which has an almost entirely graphical interface, it sticks out like a sore thumb. While auto-mine is kinda meh, it serves a legitimate purpose. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:36 Godwrath wrote: Are you comparing auto-rally to automining at the beginning of the match so people with lag doesn't lose 4-5 secs per match ? If you just wanted to go full BW hipster, atleast do it right, not saying nonsense. read the guy I quoted. i doubt you'll do it dear hater. | ||
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SgtCoDFish
United Kingdom1520 Posts
These changes are so freaking minor and people are jumping on them like they're huge. The sending workers to mine at the beginning thing is a great option for people who lag at the start. It lets them start on more equal footing. Pros shouldn't be using it in theory because splitting allows you more control as to where workers end up so they can be put on closer mineral patches. As for the worker counter: maybe it should be spectator only, but it's personal preference, really... which is why it's an option. The skill really isn't in counting the workers, it's in having the correct amount at each base, which isn't much skill anyway. And it's a beta, so posting stuff like this OP in blizzard's forums might be more use. There's scope for change. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:43 c0sm0naut wrote: there are community inspired solutions to this problem, posted on blizzards website in highly rated threads including: -Fixing the broken code that causes this in the first place (top level machines sometimes having delay at game start. completely unacceptable) -Count down timer after map and game have loaded. 3 - 2 -1 now both players are able to control stuff at the same time This also fixes it and makes nothing to harm your skillful experience. What's the problem then ? | ||
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Cerz
United States10 Posts
If Blizzard can tap into that younger audience, then their profits will skyrocket.... and it seems they are willing to sacrifice their older, loyal customers who enjoy games taking skill. | ||
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CrateCat
Germany28 Posts
EDIT: in terms of blizzard "dumbing down" the game, i think thats BS. If you look at HOTS you can see a lot more emphasis on skill based units, such as the viper, oracle tempest, etc... which are used ALL game long, instead of doing a 2 second split, which really doesn't require that much skill. | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
So if, for example, I play a ZvZ where we macro up to 3 base and mass Roaches til one of us wins and I spread my workers out more efficiently across my bases throughout the whole game while making sure I have the exact right amount then I have a clear advantage and my macro is better. If me and my opponent were told our worker counts then half the job is done for him and I get fucked over. I'm the player with better macro, but he's been helped and now is on par with me not because he improved, but because the game helped him. I don't like that. I would be fine if Blizzard added some tooltip thing that tells you how many workers you need to mine efficiently in your first games, or maybe a tutorial thing... | ||
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Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
The only argument against these items that makes sense is the "slippery slope" one--every change that dumbs down the game will lead to further changes to dumb down the game. It's ok to dislike the change or to like it. But how can you justify writing that essay about THIS change? You could have played so many ladder games in that time :D | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:46 sAsImre wrote: read the guy I quoted. i doubt you'll do it dear hater. I read him, how else do you think i know you are full bananas about your experience on BW or RTS in general?. If you had any real experience you would already know automining at the start takes away nothing. Auto-rally was different and did lower the skill ceiling required to control your workers, but isn't related to the topic, and anyways, it free those APM to other things, so while controlling workers is less "skillfull" on sc2 than in BW, you can use that skill on other departments. Btw, i am not a hater, today i am at my best mood laughing about clueless people who just cry about pointless stuff because they want to be part of the BW leet they never were. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:54 Godwrath wrote: I read him, how else do you think i know you are full bananas about your experience on BW or RTS in general?. If you had any real experience you would already know automining at the start takes away nothing. Auto-rally was different and did lower the skill ceiling required to control your workers, but isn't related to the topic, and freeing those APM Btw, i am not a hater, today i am at my best mood laughing about clueless people who just cry about pointless stuff because they want to be part of the BW leet they never were. you confuse terms, auto-mining refers to the fact your workers are directly rallied on your minerals once they're produced. | ||
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
On September 06 2012 06:33 Aunvilgod wrote: ave to count your workers per base. In HotS you don´t which equalizes good and bad players. It lowers the skill ceiling as good macro is easier to achieve. This is a flawed understanding of what "ceiling" means. None of these changes even remotely affect the skill ceiling. | ||
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
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whatevername
471 Posts
Who could possibly be confused that your drones are meant to mine the minerals? Who could possibly argue that its impossible to know how many drones should be at your base? Who the hell pulled out their hair because they had to make educated guesses on whether certain tech was seen with a scan was placed? This is actually embarrassing. | ||
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Butterednuts
United States859 Posts
These changes are so minute that it hardly bears a paragraph talking about it. | ||
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Fluid
Canada136 Posts
The maps can also change based on your ladder league, like for plat to bronze there are rocks, but for higher leagues there aren't any, and there are more chokes/cliffs, etc... | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:56 sAsImre wrote: you confuse terms, auto-mining refers to the fact your workers are directly rallied on your minerals once they're produced. Do i need to write them "your way" so you can understand the difference between autorally workers on mineral lines, to automining from the start ? Of course, now we are going to argue semantics. I really didn't see that one coming. | ||
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