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[D] Warhound: Is it good or should it be changed? - Page 27

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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Kamwah
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom724 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-05 19:03:47
September 05 2012 19:02 GMT
#521
On September 06 2012 03:54 sAsImre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 03:52 Kamwah wrote:
On September 06 2012 03:51 sAsImre wrote:
On September 06 2012 03:49 Kamwah wrote:
OMG! Terran have an a-move unit that does decent damage and warrants a particular response from the other player.

Quick nerf it! nerf it to the ground!

No.


or just change other races 1a units???


You expect them to change them which is basically them admitting that they've made a mistake at some point and can't balance them?

Good luck with that. Blizz don't admit fault.


i prefer to be the race with no 1a unit that building a mech marauder and a move into win.


Well not everyone shares that opinion.


On September 06 2012 03:54 Asmodeusx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 03:49 Kamwah wrote:
OMG! Terran have an a-move unit that does decent damage and warrants a particular response from the other player.

Quick nerf it! nerf it to the ground!

No.


AHAHAHA, and what response does it force? Going air because it stomps everything on the ground once you get enaugh warhounds? Play the game first, then comment on it.


The same goes for yourself. Play the game then comment on it.

You're clueless.
Learn to count with CatsPajamas!
Dontkillme
Profile Joined November 2011
Korea (South)806 Posts
September 05 2012 19:05 GMT
#522
It looks ugly but us terrans need a unit we can simply a move and not worry so much about micro
Bomber & Jaedong & FlaSh & SNSD <3
Elldar
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden287 Posts
September 05 2012 19:06 GMT
#523
Well, only the autocast on haywire missile is too strong, I mean stalkers don't blink themselves when they get low health and corruptors don't auto-cast corruption, so it make no sense for the war hound to autocast haywire.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
September 05 2012 19:06 GMT
#524
On September 06 2012 04:02 Sinensis wrote:

It can't be microed effectively vs anything... it's sole purpose it to be 1aed toward mech armies and forgotten about. It's a slow, badly designed, boring unit. How do you break a siege line with Warhounds? 1a. How do you drop with Warhounds? Oh wait you wouldn't because they're just a marauder that can't be healed by medivacs.

What the fuck, have you actually watched a good player use warhounds?

Are you seriously going to tell me that a fast unit with 7 range cannot be microed?
derElbe
Profile Joined February 2009
Germany571 Posts
September 05 2012 19:08 GMT
#525
i think it's ugly,
i don't know about the other stuff you'r accusing.
Hoejja - Bisu - Leenock - TLO
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-05 19:09:28
September 05 2012 19:09 GMT
#526
On September 06 2012 04:06 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 04:02 Sinensis wrote:

It can't be microed effectively vs anything... it's sole purpose it to be 1aed toward mech armies and forgotten about. It's a slow, badly designed, boring unit. How do you break a siege line with Warhounds? 1a. How do you drop with Warhounds? Oh wait you wouldn't because they're just a marauder that can't be healed by medivacs.

What the fuck, have you actually watched a good player use warhounds?

Are you seriously going to tell me that a fast unit with 7 range cannot be microed?


Stephano is pretty good I was watching him use them for a while. Maybe you can find me a video of Warhound micro maybe I'm missing something.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
September 05 2012 19:12 GMT
#527
On September 06 2012 04:09 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 04:06 Bagi wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:02 Sinensis wrote:

It can't be microed effectively vs anything... it's sole purpose it to be 1aed toward mech armies and forgotten about. It's a slow, badly designed, boring unit. How do you break a siege line with Warhounds? 1a. How do you drop with Warhounds? Oh wait you wouldn't because they're just a marauder that can't be healed by medivacs.

What the fuck, have you actually watched a good player use warhounds?

Are you seriously going to tell me that a fast unit with 7 range cannot be microed?


Stephano is pretty good I was watching him use them for a while. Maybe you can find me a video or Warhound micro maybe I'm missing something.

So your argument is that if Stephano didn't micro them while offracing as terran, they can't be microed?

If you can't figure out the potential of having 1 extra range more than most ranged units as well as having good movement speed, I don't think I can help you.
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
September 05 2012 19:14 GMT
#528
I'm fine with it. I prefer core units than spell casters. Macro imo is more skill than micro or winning from casting a spell.
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
September 05 2012 19:17 GMT
#529
On September 06 2012 04:12 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 04:09 Sinensis wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:06 Bagi wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:02 Sinensis wrote:

It can't be microed effectively vs anything... it's sole purpose it to be 1aed toward mech armies and forgotten about. It's a slow, badly designed, boring unit. How do you break a siege line with Warhounds? 1a. How do you drop with Warhounds? Oh wait you wouldn't because they're just a marauder that can't be healed by medivacs.

What the fuck, have you actually watched a good player use warhounds?

Are you seriously going to tell me that a fast unit with 7 range cannot be microed?


Stephano is pretty good I was watching him use them for a while. Maybe you can find me a video or Warhound micro maybe I'm missing something.

So your argument is that if Stephano didn't micro them while offracing as terran, they can't be microed?

If you can't figure out the potential of having 1 extra range more than most ranged units as well as having good movement speed, I don't think I can help you.


The movement speed is 2.81. So, they're as fast as an SCV. Which is slower than every attacking unit with 6 range. Wait, maybe not ghosts or non-stimmed m/m.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
September 05 2012 19:18 GMT
#530
On September 06 2012 04:02 Sinensis wrote:
The Warhound is a Goliath that can't be microed or shoot up. Seriously could you just put the goliath back into the game it adds so many more cool options for terran? Tanks are supposed to be the mech army's "anti-mech."

explain plz how is goliath more microable than warhound.
AKomrade
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States582 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-05 19:20:49
September 05 2012 19:20 GMT
#531
There is no AA?! I thought that was the point of removing the Thor and adding the Warhound. Fuck anti-tank stuff, I want to be able to defend my army from mutas and void rays.

AND BROODLORDS.
ALL HAIL THE KING IN THE NORTH! HAIL! HAIL!
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
September 05 2012 19:22 GMT
#532
Only thing I don't understand is why they are so fucking fast,wtf
Cackle™
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
September 05 2012 19:22 GMT
#533
On September 06 2012 04:18 Cheerio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 04:02 Sinensis wrote:
The Warhound is a Goliath that can't be microed or shoot up. Seriously could you just put the goliath back into the game it adds so many more cool options for terran? Tanks are supposed to be the mech army's "anti-mech."

explain plz how is goliath more microable than warhound.


Alright here. A goliath has 8 range anti-air missiles that can be used to kill most air units extremely effectively, using hold position/patrol micro greatly increases their effectiveness.

Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-05 19:27:34
September 05 2012 19:26 GMT
#534
On September 06 2012 04:17 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 04:12 Bagi wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:09 Sinensis wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:06 Bagi wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:02 Sinensis wrote:

It can't be microed effectively vs anything... it's sole purpose it to be 1aed toward mech armies and forgotten about. It's a slow, badly designed, boring unit. How do you break a siege line with Warhounds? 1a. How do you drop with Warhounds? Oh wait you wouldn't because they're just a marauder that can't be healed by medivacs.

What the fuck, have you actually watched a good player use warhounds?

Are you seriously going to tell me that a fast unit with 7 range cannot be microed?


Stephano is pretty good I was watching him use them for a while. Maybe you can find me a video or Warhound micro maybe I'm missing something.

So your argument is that if Stephano didn't micro them while offracing as terran, they can't be microed?

If you can't figure out the potential of having 1 extra range more than most ranged units as well as having good movement speed, I don't think I can help you.


The movement speed is 2.81. So, they're as fast as an SCV. Which is slower than every attacking unit with 6 range. Wait, maybe not ghosts or non-stimmed m/m.

In the early game, pretty much the only units that can keep up with them are lings (battle hellions deal with them) and stalkers.

If you rushed warhounds against toss, would you kite back and forth, sniping stalkers and sentries with the missiles? Or would you just a-move?
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-05 19:30:27
September 05 2012 19:28 GMT
#535
On September 06 2012 04:26 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 04:17 Sinensis wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:12 Bagi wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:09 Sinensis wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:06 Bagi wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:02 Sinensis wrote:

It can't be microed effectively vs anything... it's sole purpose it to be 1aed toward mech armies and forgotten about. It's a slow, badly designed, boring unit. How do you break a siege line with Warhounds? 1a. How do you drop with Warhounds? Oh wait you wouldn't because they're just a marauder that can't be healed by medivacs.

What the fuck, have you actually watched a good player use warhounds?

Are you seriously going to tell me that a fast unit with 7 range cannot be microed?


Stephano is pretty good I was watching him use them for a while. Maybe you can find me a video or Warhound micro maybe I'm missing something.

So your argument is that if Stephano didn't micro them while offracing as terran, they can't be microed?

If you can't figure out the potential of having 1 extra range more than most ranged units as well as having good movement speed, I don't think I can help you.


The movement speed is 2.81. So, they're as fast as an SCV. Which is slower than every attacking unit with 6 range. Wait, maybe not ghosts or non-stimmed m/m.

So in the early game, pretty much the only units that can keep up with them are lings (battle hellions deal with them) and stalkers.

If you rushed warhounds against toss, would you kite back and forth, sniping stalkers and sentries with the missiles? Or would you just a-move?


Stalkers are faster than warhounds how do you plan on kiting them? The second you get close enough they can just walk toward you and kill you because you are not fast enough to get away.

This used to happen with hydras all the time in ZvP back when people still tried to make hydras work. Then everyone realized they were just slow, boring, useless, 1a units that have no purpose in the game.
Avean
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Norway449 Posts
September 05 2012 19:29 GMT
#536
I love when Terran players justify them having micro with unit control when all they do is stim and stutter step. Protoss has to use perfect forcefields and zerg needs perfect surround. Get over it, every race requires alot of micro but its different approaches to it.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-05 19:30:00
September 05 2012 19:29 GMT
#537
On September 06 2012 04:28 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 04:26 Bagi wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:17 Sinensis wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:12 Bagi wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:09 Sinensis wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:06 Bagi wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:02 Sinensis wrote:

It can't be microed effectively vs anything... it's sole purpose it to be 1aed toward mech armies and forgotten about. It's a slow, badly designed, boring unit. How do you break a siege line with Warhounds? 1a. How do you drop with Warhounds? Oh wait you wouldn't because they're just a marauder that can't be healed by medivacs.

What the fuck, have you actually watched a good player use warhounds?

Are you seriously going to tell me that a fast unit with 7 range cannot be microed?


Stephano is pretty good I was watching him use them for a while. Maybe you can find me a video or Warhound micro maybe I'm missing something.

So your argument is that if Stephano didn't micro them while offracing as terran, they can't be microed?

If you can't figure out the potential of having 1 extra range more than most ranged units as well as having good movement speed, I don't think I can help you.


The movement speed is 2.81. So, they're as fast as an SCV. Which is slower than every attacking unit with 6 range. Wait, maybe not ghosts or non-stimmed m/m.

So in the early game, pretty much the only units that can keep up with them are lings (battle hellions deal with them) and stalkers.

If you rushed warhounds against toss, would you kite back and forth, sniping stalkers and sentries with the missiles? Or would you just a-move?


Stalkers are faster than warhounds how do you plan on kiting them? The second you get close enough they can just walk toward you and kill you because you are not fast enough to get away.

And in which magical dimension does pure stalker beat pure warhound? You kite the melee, FF the stalkers, win.
tino
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany21 Posts
September 05 2012 19:29 GMT
#538
I do have to say that I'm a bit disappointed with Blizz for not getting more creative with Terran. I can think of so many cool things u could do. Bringing Thor/Goliath like units into HotS is not really new. Terran needs a lot more work by introducing a real new unit.

Redesign some units to make the game refreshing!
HowardRoark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
1146 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-05 19:32:22
September 05 2012 19:30 GMT
#539
Mech in BW was:
Tanks for covering ground and dealing damage.
Vultures being the "frontiermen" and mining the ground.
Goliaths for anti air.

It was great spectator fun to watch, because there was one tank, one human-form, and one bike. Variety, and you could tell the difference by just looking: "Ah, that is a tank blowing anything coming near, and one bike is frantically placing mines in the front, and those robots are firing at air units. I get it!" Vultures were heavy micro intensive, and the tanks slow pushed and covered ground in a way that was different from other races and from bio. Basically, Bill Roper and his gang hit a 3 note chord that rang true and clear. It was basically a perfect unit design that worked well together and were distinct.

What Blizzard is giving us in HOTS is basically bio from the factory. Warhound is another two legged ground to ground unit that hard counter armored units, filling the role as a Marauder. Marauder is not well designed, it just had to be there to be because the roach and the stalker existed for the other two races.

Having Thor, Warhound and BattleHellion ain't good unit design or unit symbiosis, it is just bland. Remove Thor from the game, and try to rethink Warhound, both in design as well as role. Perhaps a walking Valkyrie. Just don't make it so bland and unoriginal. The problem probably lies in that BW mech was perfect, be it a fluke or Roper's pure genious. Either way, they probably realized BW units were great, but they do not want to add the same units so they change them a bit (which makes them worse design wise): Lurkers that send out locusts, mines that walk themselves instead of being deployed by Vultures, Guardians that shoot living things instead of strange fireballs. And, instead of a ground Defiler they introduce the flying Defiler. Either, make up new units, or just use the same units as in BW.
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
Butterednuts
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-05 19:31:53
September 05 2012 19:31 GMT
#540
1. It's ugly
2. Very A-Click like, making it not very useful to micro
3. Doesn't feel very mech like
4. No AA



So a roach with a little less micro-ability.
Chameleons Cast No Shadows
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