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On July 20 2012 03:10 Warpish wrote:
Regarding the story, here's some ideas thath I think that could, at least partly, save the story:
What if it turned out that Jim Raynor is actually crazy. The man lost it. He istruly becoming a terrorist and fighting for nothing but his pride and distorted sense of reality. He attacked and killed the Protoss to steal resources and artifacts. He invaded a prison and released dangerous criminals into the sector. He almost killed all his crew in Supernova due to his ambition. He showsno respect for the Hyperion crew. He sacrificed thousands of mans in Char for his ego. He killed his best friend to save the most hated creature in the universe, responsible for the death of millions. He's insane.
Matt Horner will finally realize this and he will have to put an end to Raynor's madness.
Moreover, Zeratul was never on the Hyperion; there is no prophecy; the Queen of Blades in not the key for anything. Raynor invented this distorted reality in his mind to substantiate the importance of Kerrigan and to justify/deal with the fact that he still loves this monstrosity. He lost all touch with reality. He's no different than Mengsk.
There could be several reasons for Raynor's madness, for example:
- He can not deal with all that is going on. The war, He simlpy lost his mind.
- He is infested.
- Tosh is messing with his head
Tychus isnt his best bud hes a guy he used to know
Fenix is his best bud
also, sacrificed many men on char, saved millions of people from the swarm
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On July 20 2012 03:10 Warpish wrote:
Regarding the story, here's some ideas thath I think that could, at least partly, save the story:
What if it turned out that Jim Raynor is actually crazy. The man lost it. He istruly becoming a terrorist and fighting for nothing but his pride and distorted sense of reality. He attacked and killed the Protoss to steal resources and artifacts. He invaded a prison and released dangerous criminals into the sector. He almost killed all his crew in Supernova due to his ambition. He showsno respect for the Hyperion crew. He sacrificed thousands of mans in Char for his ego. He killed his best friend to save the most hated creature in the universe, responsible for the death of millions. He's insane.
Matt Horner will finally realize this and he will have to put an end to Raynor's madness.
Moreover, Zeratul was never on the Hyperion; there is no prophecy; the Queen of Blades in not the key for anything. Raynor invented this distorted reality in his mind to substantiate the importance of Kerrigan and to justify/deal with the fact that he still loves this monstrosity. He lost all touch with reality. He's no different than Mengsk.
There could be several reasons for Raynor's madness, for example:
- He can not deal with all that is going on. The war, He simlpy lost his mind.
- He is infested.
- Tosh is messing with his head
Um... this would wreck the story, IMO. I like it just like it is in WOL.
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Does anyone else think Blizzard is going about unit balance all wrong?
They said it themselves as to what the main goal of the units is going to be in HotS. They said (not word for word): "We are tying to fill in some of the roles that the races didn't have in WoL".
What I think they should be doing is fixing WoL balance entirely in addition to adding roles in HotS. This means rather than filling in gaps they are adding to the core game itself. The only reason why they wouldn't do this is to suck money. However, there are three major problems with them doing HotS's new units in a gap filling sort of way.
1: WoL won't be finished. They will have felt like HotS was the fix to WoL. This means WoL won't have good balance. Mainly bad for the players, but it could turn new players off by having to buy HotS and WoL (at least $90) for good balance.
2. The Terran race won't get much. Well, they've said it themselves. Terran already have all the tools they need and its making it hard to make new units for them. If they were making new content for the game, this wouldn't be a problem.
3. Legacy of the Void. If HotS fills in all the gaps, what is LotV (the 3rd said expansion pack) going to be for? Unless this is where they add new content, Blizzard will pretty much be screwed when trying to make multiplayer content for this.
I'm wondering if Blizzard needs to hear this. Pretty silly they couldn't think of this themselves. 
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On July 22 2012 14:45 SquidThingy wrote:Does anyone else think Blizzard is going about unit balance all wrong? They said it themselves as to what the main goal of the units is going to be in HotS. They said (not word for word): "We are tying to fill in some of the roles that the races didn't have in WoL". What I think they should be doing is fixing WoL balance entirely in addition to adding roles in HotS. This means rather than filling in gaps they are adding to the core game itself. The only reason why they wouldn't do this is to suck money. However, there are three major problems with them doing HotS's new units in a gap filling sort of way. 1: WoL won't be finished. They will have felt like HotS was the fix to WoL. This means WoL won't have good balance. Mainly bad for the players, but it could turn new players off by having to buy HotS and WoL (at least $90) for good balance. 2. The Terran race won't get much. Well, they've said it themselves. Terran already have all the tools they need and its making it hard to make new units for them. If they were making new content for the game, this wouldn't be a problem. 3. Legacy of the Void. If HotS fills in all the gaps, what is LotV (the 3rd said expansion pack) going to be for? Unless this is where they add new content, Blizzard will pretty much be screwed when trying to make multiplayer content for this. I'm wondering if Blizzard needs to hear this. Pretty silly they couldn't think of this themselves.
This is wrong thread for this. This is single player section and balance doesn't really matter. People are discussing lore here...
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1: WoL won't be finished. They will have felt like HotS was the fix to WoL. This means WoL won't have good balance. Mainly bad for the players, but it could turn new players off by having to buy HotS and WoL (at least $90) for good balance.
1 WoL is balanced, there a couple small tweaks that might be needed but overall it is balanced
2 HoTS will not be anywhere close to 90$, maybe 40$ at most
2. The Terran race won't get much. Well, they've said it themselves. Terran already have all the tools they need and its making it hard to make new units for them. If they were making new content for the game, this wouldn't be a problem.
Terran are getting 3 new units Zerg are getting 2 new units... (if you count battle hellion as a new unit)
3. Legacy of the Void. If HotS fills in all the gaps, what is LotV (the 3rd said expansion pack) going to be for? Unless this is where they add new content, Blizzard will pretty much be screwed when trying to make multiplayer content for this.
LoTV is at least 3 or 4 years away still see how hoTS turns out before panicing about LoTV
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On July 22 2012 14:45 SquidThingy wrote:
Does anyone else think Blizzard is going about unit balance all wrong?
They said it themselves as to what the main goal of the units is going to be in HotS. They said (not word for word): "We are tying to fill in some of the roles that the races didn't have in WoL".
What I think they should be doing is fixing WoL balance entirely in addition to adding roles in HotS. This means rather than filling in gaps they are adding to the core game itself. The only reason why they wouldn't do this is to suck money. However, there are three major problems with them doing HotS's new units in a gap filling sort of way.
1: WoL won't be finished. They will have felt like HotS was the fix to WoL. This means WoL won't have good balance. Mainly bad for the players, but it could turn new players off by having to buy HotS and WoL (at least $90) for good balance.
I don't understand what you mean by the difference between "adding to the core game itself" versus "filling in gaps". WoL is relatively well balanced right now, but that balance will clearly go out the window once each race gets a few new units in HotS... so, at least at the start of HotS, it'll be the other way around; WoL will be the more balanced game, whereas HotS will still need work.
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On July 20 2012 22:50 Zato-1 wrote:Um... this would wreck the story, IMO. I like it just like it is in WOL.
Um... yes it would, but not much more than Raynor being a pathetic drunk for years between BW and WoL, or a complete mindless tool for Valerian throughout WoL. Or the Zerg Hive being easy as a walk in the park to break into. Or the appearance of a deus-ex-artefact to solve everyone's problems. Or a bunch of other brain-dead ways that Blizzard have already ruined the story anyway.
I can't imagine them ever being able to fix it in HotS now, so watching them bring it down more and more is probably the only amusement left for me in the expansions.
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On July 23 2012 22:23 georgir wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 22:50 Zato-1 wrote:On July 20 2012 03:10 Warpish wrote:... Jim Raynor is actually crazy.... Um... this would wreck the story, IMO. I like it just like it is in WOL. Um... yes it would, but not much more than Raynor being a pathetic drunk for years between BW and WoL, or a complete mindless tool for Valerian throughout WoL. Or the Zerg Hive being easy as a walk in the park to break into. Or the appearance of a deus-ex-artefact to solve everyone's problems. Or a bunch of other brain-dead ways that Blizzard have already ruined the story anyway. I can't imagine them ever being able to fix it in HotS now, so watching them bring it down more and more is probably the only amusement left for me in the expansions.
im sorry you have such a low opinion of blizzard
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On July 23 2012 22:23 georgir wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 22:50 Zato-1 wrote:On July 20 2012 03:10 Warpish wrote:... Jim Raynor is actually crazy.... Um... this would wreck the story, IMO. I like it just like it is in WOL. Um... yes it would, but not much more than Raynor being a pathetic drunk for years between BW and WoL, or a complete mindless tool for Valerian throughout WoL. Or the Zerg Hive being easy as a walk in the park to break into. Or the appearance of a deus-ex-artefact to solve everyone's problems. Or a bunch of other brain-dead ways that Blizzard have already ruined the story anyway. I can't imagine them ever being able to fix it in HotS now, so watching them bring it down more and more is probably the only amusement left for me in the expansions.
Raynor wasn't a pathetic drunk between BW and WoL; drunk yes, pathetic no. He was still managing to keep his resistance forces relevant and in good esteem with a lot of common folk in the sector in the face of a Dominion police state and media control. Throughout WoL, Raynor was no one's tool; he wanted to save Kerrigan no matter what, and that's exactly what he did. It's fair to say that he was manipulated by Valerian because he knew Raynor's motivations and how to take advantage of them, but Raynor cared less about being used than about achieving his goal.
I don't know if you're one of those "SC2 campaign is shit, SC and BW campaigns were 1000x better" types who like to defecate so profusely on SC2 around here, but claiming that it was too easy to break into Char on SC2 is pretty ironic considering the contrast with the fall of Aiur on the SC campaign; the final missions on Char in SC2 are WAY harder than the final Zerg missions from the SC campaign, and the Protoss resistance is depicted as valiant but ultimately futile and pathetic as the Zerg just completely dominate them and take over their homeworld, whereas the invasion of Char in SC2 is depicted as this desperate effort that is doomed to failure until the artifact clears away the Zerg... oh yeah, this deus-ex artifact that does the exact same thing as this OTHER Xel'Naga artifact did in Shakuras back in the BW campaign, with the Uraj and Khalis crystals. The Xel'Naga artifact in WoL is 100% consistent with the story from SC and BW.
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On July 23 2012 23:53 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 22:23 georgir wrote:On July 20 2012 22:50 Zato-1 wrote:On July 20 2012 03:10 Warpish wrote:... Jim Raynor is actually crazy.... Um... this would wreck the story, IMO. I like it just like it is in WOL. Um... yes it would, but not much more than Raynor being a pathetic drunk for years between BW and WoL, or a complete mindless tool for Valerian throughout WoL. Or the Zerg Hive being easy as a walk in the park to break into. Or the appearance of a deus-ex-artefact to solve everyone's problems. Or a bunch of other brain-dead ways that Blizzard have already ruined the story anyway. I can't imagine them ever being able to fix it in HotS now, so watching them bring it down more and more is probably the only amusement left for me in the expansions. Raynor wasn't a pathetic drunk between BW and WoL; drunk yes, pathetic no. He was still managing to keep his resistance forces relevant and in good esteem with a lot of common folk in the sector in the face of a Dominion police state and media control. Throughout WoL, Raynor was no one's tool; he wanted to save Kerrigan no matter what, and that's exactly what he did. It's fair to say that he was manipulated by Valerian because he knew Raynor's motivations and how to take advantage of them, but Raynor cared less about being used than about achieving his goal. I don't know if you're one of those "SC2 campaign is shit, SC and BW campaigns were 1000x better" types who like to defecate so profusely on SC2 around here, but claiming that it was too easy to break into Char on SC2 is pretty ironic considering the contrast with the fall of Aiur on the SC campaign; the final missions on Char in SC2 are WAY harder than the final Zerg missions from the SC campaign, and the Protoss resistance is depicted as valiant but ultimately futile and pathetic as the Zerg just completely dominate them and take over their homeworld, whereas the invasion of Char in SC2 is depicted as this desperate effort that is doomed to failure until the artifact clears away the Zerg... oh yeah, this deus-ex artifact that does the exact same thing as this OTHER Xel'Naga artifact did in Shakuras back in the BW campaign, with the Uraj and Khalis crystals. The Xel'Naga artifact in WoL is 100% consistent with the story from SC and BW.
(technically not 100% the same since Hanson believes this artifact would hurt protoss but tahts jsut splittin hairs)
also despite the Protoss getting there asses completely handed to them at every turn they still manage to launch a succesful counter attack with minimal forces into the very heart of the most defended Zerg settlement on Aiur (which is also pretty much where the Zerg have been pushing from so think about how much Zerg controlled Territory they had to cover to even get to the Overmind)
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That article was posted on June 15th...
Even if it was posted today, the 80-20 rule dictates that the last 1% could take the longest.
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Better to have one final percent one month ago than today.
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The 1% is a significant problem they have a difficult time solving, making it somewhere between 20-30% incomplete.
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HOTS wont come out til next year.
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On July 27 2012 16:10 Onlinejaguar wrote:
HOTS wont come out til next year.
probably early next year at latest IMO, Beta should be dropping any week now
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Wings of Liberty campaign had too many loose ends and some things occurred out of the blue. I hope that Heart of the Swarm will either pull together those loose ends. But since they say this story will be "branching" off a bit from the main story, they include as much satisfactory content as possible.
I'm not too found of the hybrid saga though. I kinda like it with just Zerg, Protoss and Terran.
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On July 23 2012 23:53 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 22:23 georgir wrote:On July 20 2012 22:50 Zato-1 wrote:On July 20 2012 03:10 Warpish wrote:... Jim Raynor is actually crazy.... Um... this would wreck the story, IMO. I like it just like it is in WOL. Um... yes it would, but not much more than Raynor being a pathetic drunk for years between BW and WoL, or a complete mindless tool for Valerian throughout WoL. Or the Zerg Hive being easy as a walk in the park to break into. Or the appearance of a deus-ex-artefact to solve everyone's problems. Or a bunch of other brain-dead ways that Blizzard have already ruined the story anyway. I can't imagine them ever being able to fix it in HotS now, so watching them bring it down more and more is probably the only amusement left for me in the expansions. Raynor wasn't a pathetic drunk between BW and WoL; drunk yes, pathetic no. He was still managing to keep his resistance forces relevant and in good esteem with a lot of common folk in the sector in the face of a Dominion police state and media control. Throughout WoL, Raynor was no one's tool; he wanted to save Kerrigan no matter what, and that's exactly what he did. It's fair to say that he was manipulated by Valerian because he knew Raynor's motivations and how to take advantage of them, but Raynor cared less about being used than about achieving his goal. I don't know if you're one of those "SC2 campaign is shit, SC and BW campaigns were 1000x better" types who like to defecate so profusely on SC2 around here, but claiming that it was too easy to break into Char on SC2 is pretty ironic considering the contrast with the fall of Aiur on the SC campaign; the final missions on Char in SC2 are WAY harder than the final Zerg missions from the SC campaign, and the Protoss resistance is depicted as valiant but ultimately futile and pathetic as the Zerg just completely dominate them and take over their homeworld, whereas the invasion of Char in SC2 is depicted as this desperate effort that is doomed to failure until the artifact clears away the Zerg... oh yeah, this deus-ex artifact that does the exact same thing as this OTHER Xel'Naga artifact did in Shakuras back in the BW campaign, with the Uraj and Khalis crystals. The Xel'Naga artifact in WoL is 100% consistent with the story from SC and BW.
Ok, maybe Raynor wasn't pathetic. But he still was not making any sense.
In BW it was clear that Kerrigan was to be Raynor's main focus, not the insignificant Mengsk. Why would he go back to Dominion space and rebel against Mengsk instead of stay with the Protoss and search for a way to fight against Kerrigan? He had good connections with the Protoss and strings he could pull. Maybe not enough to get an actual army, but he could definitely get more resources, technology, research or ideas to de-infest or kill Kerrigan with them. And even if he doesn's stay with them, he should have kept some kind of communication with them, that does not consist of Zeratul's magical appearance on the Hyperion.
Also, my problem with the artifact is not what it does, but how it was introduced. It was Raynor's job to search and discover a way to de-infest Kerrigan, and he should have at least tried to find something like that by himself, instead of just sit in a bar while Valerian does his job.
And no matter what parallels you point out to the Overmind on Ajur, getting the artifact to Kerrigan and de-infesting her so easily is just mockery with her character. Or would have been, if she had any in this game.
My other big gripe with WoL's story is the "choices" you make that make absolutely no difference (story-wise, not talking about the ingame unit). The "Safe Haven's Fall" choice in particular is dumb beyond all belief. It completely disregards Raynor's connections with the Protoss and mocks both Raynor's and Selendis' ability to communicate, negotiate, reason. It is not explained well to the player so it is not even clear what your are chosing between. The Hanson infestation that was thrown in out of nowhere in one of the outcomes gets just as easily forgotten and so the choice remains irrelevant. Other choices are no different. That just reeks of wasted potential. WoL could have been so much better.
[EDIT: I just can't let go off this one... What happens with the infestation if you stop the protoss from burning it? Does Hanson find a cure? (Apparently I had even forgotten that she promised a cure in the briefing before the choice.) Or does she, being infested herself, just pretend and also make the infested colonists pretend that all is fine? Also, shouldn't that cure have significance in future engagements with the Zerg, or even with Kerrigan's infestation? Probably the biggest blunder of the WoL story.]
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In BW it was clear that Kerrigan was to be Raynor's main focus, not the insignificant Mengsk. Why would he go back to Dominion space and rebel against Mengsk instead of stay with the Protoss and search for a way to fight against Kerrigan? He had good connections with the Protoss and strings he could pull. Maybe not enough to get an actual army, but he could definitely get more resources, technology, research or ideas to de-infest or kill Kerrigan with them. And even if he doesn's stay with them, he should have kept some kind of communication with them, that does not consist of Zeratul's magical appearance on the Hyperion.
aparently he was more interested in trying to save his people and get someone who was more interested in allying with the protoss then chasing a ghost
the Protoss werent ready to fight Kerrigan, theyve undoubtable spent the last 4 years trying to repair after the last Zerg attack
My other big gripe with WoL's story is the "choices" you make that make absolutely no difference (story-wise, not talking about the ingame unit). The "Safe Haven's Fall" choice in particular is dumb beyond all belief. It completely disregards Raynor's connections with the Protoss and mocks both Raynor's and Selendis' ability to communicate, negotiate, reason. It is not explained well to the player so it is not even clear what your are chosing between. The Hanson infestation that was thrown in out of nowhere in one of the outcomes gets just as easily forgotten and so the choice remains irrelevant. Other choices are no different. That just reeks of wasted potential. WoL could have been so much better.
id say Selendis kept true to waht we know from Protoss, stubborn to a fault, refusing to budge an inch, willing to let actions speak louder then words e.t.c
if it was Artanis they met then it would be a different story
the choices is something blizzard has talked about and said they realise that people dont like the "pointless" choices and are fixing that in HoTS
[EDIT: I just can't let go off this one... What happens with the infestation if you stop the protoss from burning it? Does Hanson find a cure? (Apparently I had even forgotten that she promised a cure in the briefing before the choice.) Or does she, being infested herself, just pretend and also make the infested colonists pretend that all is fine? Also, shouldn't that cure have significance in future engagements with the Zerg, or even with Kerrigan's infestation? Probably the biggest blunder of the WoL story.]
she infested herself trying to find a cure, she was not already infested before the story began
aparently shes supposed to have found a cure, but its never really mentioned how it works or how effective it really is
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On July 30 2012 20:16 georgir wrote:
Ok, maybe Raynor wasn't pathetic. But he still was not making any sense.
In BW it was clear that Kerrigan was to be Raynor's main focus, not the insignificant Mengsk. Why would he go back to Dominion space and rebel against Mengsk instead of stay with the Protoss and search for a way to fight against Kerrigan? He had good connections with the Protoss and strings he could pull. Maybe not enough to get an actual army, but he could definitely get more resources, technology, research or ideas to de-infest or kill Kerrigan with them. And even if he doesn's stay with them, he should have kept some kind of communication with them, that does not consist of Zeratul's magical appearance on the Hyperion.
You know, you make a really good point here; this hadn't ocurred to me at all (no sarcasm btw). Raynor should have at least kept in touch with the Protoss, I agree. Not doing so is... kind of inexcusable. Despite the lull in the action for four years or so between Brood Wars and WoL, and anything he might have been doing alongside Matt Horner to stand up to Mengsk's Dominion, you do get the impression in WoL that Raynor just never talked to the Protoss again after BW- didn't share any information, didn't coordinate any action... even as he's getting ready to assault the Zerg hive planet to try and save Kerrigan (which is exactly what Zeratul's urgent message was all about), Raynor doesn't even ask the Protoss for help. There's no harm done in asking, and Zeratul was also very keen on saving Kerrigan so you'd imagine that at least he would be forthcoming with help, if only Raynor had asked.
On July 30 2012 20:16 georgir wrote:
Also, my problem with the artifact is not what it does, but how it was introduced. It was Raynor's job to search and discover a way to de-infest Kerrigan, and he should have at least tried to find something like that by himself, instead of just sit in a bar while Valerian does his job.
I don't see anything wrong in WoL regarding this point. I get the impression that Raynor didn't even know Kerrigan COULD be saved, so when Valerian springs this proposition on him and lets him know that such a feat is possible, he runs with it.
On July 30 2012 20:16 georgir wrote:
My other big gripe with WoL's story is the "choices" you make that make absolutely no difference (story-wise, not talking about the ingame unit). The "Safe Haven's Fall" choice in particular is dumb beyond all belief. It completely disregards Raynor's connections with the Protoss and mocks both Raynor's and Selendis' ability to communicate, negotiate, reason. It is not explained well to the player so it is not even clear what your are chosing between. The Hanson infestation that was thrown in out of nowhere in one of the outcomes gets just as easily forgotten and so the choice remains irrelevant. Other choices are no different. That just reeks of wasted potential. WoL could have been so much better.
It does seem like a bit of a facepalm moment to see bands that should be allies (Raynor and the Protoss) end up fighting each other... then again, this is about as good a reason as I can think of to see them fighting each other. In this scenario, Hanson and Raynor are certain that the refugees' problem can be solved, whereas Selendis is certain that if the planet isn't purified immediately then the infestation will spread and get out of control. Raynor won't stand to see the Protoss murder these people that can be saved; Selendis won't let sentimentality cause a greater tragedy in the form of a full-blown Zerg infestation.
On July 30 2012 20:16 georgir wrote:
[EDIT: I just can't let go off this one... What happens with the infestation if you stop the protoss from burning it? Does Hanson find a cure? (Apparently I had even forgotten that she promised a cure in the briefing before the choice.) Or does she, being infested herself, just pretend and also make the infested colonists pretend that all is fine? Also, shouldn't that cure have significance in future engagements with the Zerg, or even with Kerrigan's infestation? Probably the biggest blunder of the WoL story.]
My understanding of this is that whichever choice you make, the game proves you right. You're overthinking the Hanson infestation issue when you side with her- it just doesn't happen. If you decide to give Hanson the benefit of the doubt, then the game reveals that that was the right decision; the infestation problem turns out to have been a manageable problem, and she cures the refugees. If you decide that infestation cannot be cured and haven must be purged, the game reveals that yes, Hanson's pursuit was foolhardy all along and was probably motivated by her desperate need to cure her own infestation, but she fails. If you choose to side with Nova, then the game tells you that Tosh was a scumbag and a terrorist; if you side with Tosh, it turns out that Nova's accusation of Tosh being a scumbag and a terrorist was typical Dominion slander.
Blizzard has come out and said that the canon choices and their resulting explanations are siding with Hanson and siding with Tosh. So, you can take the other choices as "What if?" scenarios; what would it be like if Zerg infestation really was incurable and the Haven refugees were doomed? What would it be like if this guy Tosh that you had been working with all along really was just as bad as Mengsk, and then some?
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EPT
