Heart of the Swarm (details, discussion, etc) - Page 33
Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS |
-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
| ||
voltaic
1071 Posts
| ||
nerak
Brazil256 Posts
Driven to perfect their science of proto-genetic evolution, the ancient, enigmatic race known as the Xel’Naga traveled to the distant fringeworld of Aiur. The vast jungles of Aiur had produced the most advanced race that the Xel’Naga had ever seen. Believing that they could steer the race’s evolution to the pinnacle of physical perfection, the Xel’Naga began to conduct their proto-genetic experiments. The race that the Xel’Naga would eventually name ‘Protoss’ advanced rapidly and gained what their creators termed ‘a distinct purity of form’. Unfortunately, the Xel’Naga pushed their experiment too far. The inherent essence and sentience of the Protoss developed far too rapidly, leading to bitter strife and division between them and their creators. The Xel’Naga deemed that the purity of form they sought to create had been sullied by a conflict of essence and thus decreed that the Protoss were, in fact, a failed creation. The Xel’Naga abandoned their children and launched themselves into the void. The Birth of the Zerg Travelling thousands of light years into the burning core of the galaxy, the Xel’Naga eventually settled upon the volatile ash-world of Zerus. The Xel’Naga planned to continue their Grand Experiment of evolution, only this time they dismissed their tenets of physical form and focused chiefly on the pursuit of a distinct purity of essence. Residing in their massive ships high above the fires of Zerus, the Xel’Naga began once again to challenge the wiles of fate. I think this show's that in 1998, the Xel'Naga were just testing and learning new stuff. It also says that the Overmind thought about expanding to other planets by himself; and that it actually tricked the Xel'Nada and ambushed them: As the swarms continued to grow and strengthen, the Overmind turned its thoughts towards its own future. It realised that within a few short centuries its race had assimilated all of the indigenous life upon Zerus. It knew that to further evolve the swarm, the Zerg would need to leave Zerus. The Overmind began to reach out with its senses, looking for something - anything - which would provide them with transport from this world. That opportunity soon arrived. A race of gargantuan, space-faring life forms passed through the Zerus system, and the Overmind called to them. Drawn to the barren world Blizzard Entertainment 53 by this beacon, they were quickly assimilated by the swarm. The inclusion of super-dense hides and the ability to exist in a vacuum bolstered the genetic pool of the swarm. Soon the Zerg warriors were conditioned to survive the harshness of space. This pivotal moment in the development of the Zerg was not lost to the Xel’Naga. The Zerg, despite having an extreme physical handicap, had succeeded in not only surviving, but in retaining the purity of their terrible overriding essence. The Xel’Naga knew that they had achieved their goal. The Fall of the XelÕNaga The pride in their achievements proved to be the fatal downfall of the Xel’Naga. The Overmind, while slowly expanding itself into the void of space, became aware of the mighty Xel’Naga world-ships hovering ominously above the skies of Zerus. The Xel’Naga, having kept a constant watch on the Overmind, were horrified to find that it had actually severed their psychic link, effectively hiding itself from their view. With its need to consume driving its minions into a lustful frenzy, the Overmind launched the now space-faring Zerg swarms at the unsuspecting Xel’Naga. The ancient race did what they could to stem the tide of the everadvancing Zerg onslaught, but in the end their efforts were in vain. Wave after wave of Zerg swarms hammered the reinforced hulls of the Xel’Naga’s ships with no signs of abatement. Within only a few hours the Zerg overran the defenses of their creators and laid waste to the Xel’Naga fleet. As the greater whole of the Xel’Naga race was consumed by the raging, genetic whirlwind of the Zerg, the Overmind gained the knowledge and insights of its masters. That's where the Overmind learns about the Protoss... not only that. It also learns about every other race the Xel'Naga had created, becomes much wiser and improves the Swarm. I think this alone would prove that the "Overmind retcon" is a retcon. Here's something I think is important: Despite innumerable victories, the Overmind was greatly disturbed. The Overmind was aware that the Protoss had become a highly psionic race, able to bend and warp the very fabric of reality to their whims. It sought a way to counter the awesome might of the Protoss, but found no answers among the genetic strains it devoured. Blizzard Entertainmen54 t On the verge of despair, the Overmind made an amazing discovery. One of its deepspace probes had relayed the location and vital statistics of a race that occupied a series of nondescript worlds, right under the shadow of the Protoss. The new race, called Humanity, was mere generations away from developing into a formidable psionic power. But the Overmind also knew that Humanity was still in its infant stages, hardly capable of defending itself against the ravenous Zerg. Although a shortlived and seemingly frail species, the Overmind knew that Humanity would be the final determinant in its victory over the Protoss. If it could assimilate the psionic potential of Humanity, the Overmind would have the ability to combat the Protoss on its own terms. The Overmind was on the verge os despair because it hadn't any weapon good enough to fight the Protoss. So why does he leaves Char into Aiur without any new weapon? That's plain senseless. A real major plot hole. It was despairing, and all of a sunden it is cool? That's why I welcome this retcon. Stories can be awesome with plot holes (and the OM's story is), but if we can fix them, better. More on the Xel'Naga in the Protoss chapter: A lthough only fragmented documentation remains, ancient Protoss texts speak of a highly advanced race that ruled over thousands of worlds in the galaxy, tens of millions of years ago. This enigmatic race, often called the Xel’Naga, or ‘wanderers from afar’, was rumoured to have seeded and cultivated thousands of various species on the cold and barren worlds within their domain. Protoss traditions hold that the Xel’Naga were a peaceful and benevolent race, utterly consumed with the study and propagation of sentient evolution within the universe. Nothing is known of the origin of the Xel’Naga, save that they were not native to the galaxy over which they held sway. Obsessed with fashioning the perfect lifeform, the Xel’Naga laboured to create a creature that would be defined by a distinct purity of form. | ||
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
That's where the Overmind learns about the Protoss... not only that. It also learns about every other race the Xel'Naga had created, becomes much wiser and improves the Swarm. I think this alone would prove that the "Overmind retcon" is a retcon. Here's something I think is important: no that doesnt show its a retcon, Tassadar didnt say that the overmind knew about the protoss from the moment of its birth The Overmind was on the verge os despair because it hadn't any weapon good enough to fight the Protoss. So why does he leaves Char into Aiur without any new weapon? That's plain senseless. A real major plot hole. It was despairing, and all of a sunden it is cool? That's why I welcome this retcon. Stories can be awesome with plot holes (and the OM's story is), but if we can fix them, better. well maybe, JUST maybe, the Overmind was worried about a long drawn out war of attrition becuase he had no way to pick and choose the battles and force the protoss onto the defensive, he would ahve had to LITERALLY creep every planet in the secter and slowly figure out where Aiur was before he could even think of attacking it he was probably like "shit i have no way to be offensive so i have no choice but to fight in exactly the way the protoss want this fight to go so i need something that can stand toe to toe with the protoss so when they show up i can bring the fight to them" but because he figured out where it was he could bring the full heatlhy might of the entire swarm on the core of the protoss in one fell swoup instead of fighting over several planets i mean its not like they could glass Aiur which would you prefer, attacking a protoss in a choke or nydusing there main? | ||
nerak
Brazil256 Posts
well maybe, JUST maybe, the Overmind was worried about a long drawn out war of attrition becuase he had no way to pick and choose the battles and force the protoss onto the defensive, he would ahve had to LITERALLY creep every planet in the secter and slowly figure out where Aiur was before he could even think of attacking it he was probably like "shit i have no way to be offensive so i have no choice but to fight in exactly the way the protoss want this fight to go so i need something that can stand toe to toe with the protoss so when they show up i can bring the fight to them" but because he figured out where it was he could bring the full heatlhy might of the entire swarm on the core of the protoss in one fell swoup instead of fighting over several planets i mean its not like they could glass Aiur which would you prefer, attacking a protoss in a choke or nydusing there main? Awesome. You're right on that. But still, the game doesn't mention it. So it confused me while I was playing. Also, the OM took 60 years to arrive at the Koprulu sector. Than it takes a moment to warp to Aiur. Ok, could happen (needed/wanted more strains? wasn't in a hurry? couldn't warp all the distance for some reason?), but then again, when things follow a different logic in manual and in game, you better explain why. | ||
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On April 20 2012 06:39 nerak wrote: Awesome. You're right on that. But still, the game doesn't mention it. So it confused me while I was playing. Also, the OM took 60 years to arrive at the Koprulu sector. Than it takes a moment to warp to Aiur. Ok, could happen (needed/wanted more strains? wasn't in a hurry? couldn't warp all the distance for some reason?), but then again, when things follow a different logic in manual and in game, you better explain why. they really didnt have much time to really explain stuff naturally though theres only so much that can be put in the briefings and cutscenes without jsut adding tons of info for infos sake | ||
Telenil
France484 Posts
On April 20 2012 06:05 nerak wrote: You are not the first to bring this up and the answer hasn't changed: Kerrigan was left behind because Tassadar and Zeratul were not with their main force when it was surrounded and destroyed in An Eye for an Eye. This is explained in the original game, just before the level in which the Zerg invade Aiur.The Overmind was on the verge os despair because it hadn't any weapon good enough to fight the Protoss. So why does he leaves Char into Aiur without any new weapon? That's plain senseless. A real major plot hole. It was despairing, and all of a sunden it is cool? The two Protoss were the most dangerous opponents the Overmind had ever faced, so it left its most powerful warrior to track and destroy them. Which makes sense, Kerrigan was an excellent choice to fight elite psionists, and killing Zeratul and Tassadar was more important than anything she could have achieved on Aiur, where she would have been just an elite soldier in a world war. So, no, this is not a plot hole. You may argue that the Overmind shouldn't have left Char before they were dead, but that's a different subject. Note that in the retconned version, An Eye for an Eye wouldn't make any sense: the Zerg didn't know Tassadar and Zeratul would survive, and the objective of the level is "Let no Dark Templar escape", specifically. This is sensible from the original Overmind, and absurd if it has a death wish. Besides, who does it send to kill the enemies that must be kept alive at all costs? Kerrigan, the other being that must be kept alive at all costs. Also, the OM took 60 years to arrive at the Koprulu sector. Than it takes a moment to warp to Aiur. Ok, could happen (needed/wanted more strains? wasn't in a hurry? couldn't warp all the distance for some reason?), but then again, when things follow a different logic in manual and in game, you better explain why. We know from the manual that the Terran worlds are relatively close to the Protoss sector, and warp travel is not instantaneous in Starcraft. Even members of the UED fleet were in cold sleep during their journey.As far as invading Aiur is concerned, we also know the Zerg didn't expect the Protoss to find them first, so I'd assume the Overmind changed its plan. It does sound impractical to spend several years trying to infest the Terran when the Protoss can build new ships and send them against you, and after all, the Zerg had their first elite psionist already. | ||
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
Note that in the retconned version, An Eye for an Eye wouldn't make any sense: the Zerg didn't know Tassadar and Zeratul would survive, and the objective of the level is "Let no Dark Templar escape", specifically. This is sensible from the original Overmind, and absurd if it has a death wish. Besides, who does it send to kill the enemies that must be kept alive at all costs? Kerrigan, the other being that must be kept alive at all costs. he doesnt really care if Tassadar or Zeratulk arrive becuase he has no idea that the Dark Templar are such hated beings, or that Tassadar gained training from Zeratul and was such a powerful being, if anything he was expecting to show up on Aiur and have to fight of dark templar at every turn rather then be shielded from the dark templar by the protoss besides if Tassadar and Zeratul are so weak the cant escape from a small portion of the swarm then how would they ever be a threat to him? | ||
DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
lso, the OM took 60 years to arrive at the Koprulu sector. Than it takes a moment to warp to Aiur. Ok, could happen (needed/wanted more strains? wasn't in a hurry? couldn't warp all the distance for some reason?), but then again, when things follow a different logic in manual and in game, you better explain why. Well I dunno, the Overmind says he needs "Hallowed Ground" for some reason. Maybe he needs Xel'Naga sci-fi magic to warp like that. | ||
Telenil
France484 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:22 Forikorder wrote: Are you seriously asking me why the Overmind considered Zeratul to be a threat?besides if Tassadar and Zeratul are so weak the cant escape from a small portion of the swarm then how would they ever be a threat to him? | ||
Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:22 Forikorder wrote: he doesnt really care if Tassadar or Zeratulk arrive becuase he has no idea that the Dark Templar are such hated beings, or that Tassadar gained training from Zeratul and was such a powerful being, if anything he was expecting to show up on Aiur and have to fight of dark templar at every turn rather then be shielded from the dark templar by the protoss besides if Tassadar and Zeratul are so weak the cant escape from a small portion of the swarm then how would they ever be a threat to him? Zeratul used his dark templar energies to slay a cerebrate and severed the link to its master the overmind. In doing so Zeratul "Touched briefly with its mind". There the overmind gets full knowledge of these dark templar and the location of Aiur is extracted from him and gets firsthand knowledge of how lethal the Protoss can be. Not a threat? If the capacity to permanently render 25% of your entire army capacity in a state of perpetual frenzy so strong that he cannot regain control of these units trough usual means is not a threat then i dunno what is. | ||
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:59 Telenil wrote: Are you seriously asking me why the Overmind considered Zeratul to be a threat? well technically Zeratul wasnt a threat to him since the only important thing he actually did was kill Zasz and train Tassadar Not a threat? If the capacity to permanently render 25% of your entire army capacity in a state of perpetual frenzy so strong that he cannot regain control of these units trough usual means is not a threat then i dunno what is. Kerrigan all but killed him on Char, why instead of killing them she just locked them up makes no sense at all but she did capture Zeratul and Tassadar and Raynor on char so they were not really a threat to the overmind they got one good sneak attack in and then the dark templar were just powerful additions to the army and had pretty much no lore significance aside from making one distraction and teaching Tassadar how to use there energy (ignoring BW for now since BW has nothing to do with THE Overmind) | ||
Telenil
France484 Posts
On April 21 2012 02:52 Forikorder wrote: Come on, you can figure it by yourself.well technically Zeratul wasnt a threat to him since the only important thing he actually did was kill Zasz and train Tassadar Kerrigan all but killed him on Char, why instead of killing them she just locked them up makes no sense at all but she did capture Zeratul and Tassadar and Raynor on char so they were not really a threat to the overmind they got one good sneak attack in and then the dark templar were just powerful additions to the army and had pretty much no lore significance aside from making one distraction and teaching Tassadar how to use there energy (ignoring BW for now since BW has nothing to do with THE Overmind) It feels almost ridiculous to remind it, but as far as we know, Zeratul and the Dark Templar are the only people in the universe that can kill the Cerebrate and remove thousands of Zerg from the war with one blow. Kerrigan thought Tassadar wasn't much a threat, and next thing we know, a Cerebrate is dead and an entire Brood has to be eradicated. But even their military value is nothing compared to the fact that they can kill the Overmind - Tassadar uses "Dark Templar energies" to destroy the first, and Zeratul himself slays the second. The Overmind is the collective conscience of all Zerg, and thus he is immortal - except if he is struck by members of a certain group, in which case all the Zerg would turn into mindless animals. I agree that at this point of the game, Tassadar himself hasn't proven as dangerous as the Dark Templar, although his proximity to Zeratul is enough to hunt to him down, just to be safe. But the Dark Templar were more threatening than a fleet of carriers, the entire Swarm wasn't safe as long as they lived. About the installation mission specifically, I would just assume the Dark Templar locked themselves in, just like the Terran did. Kerrigan and the Zerg never took prisonners. | ||
nerak
Brazil256 Posts
Note that in the retconned version, An Eye for an Eye wouldn't make any sense: the Zerg didn't know Tassadar and Zeratul would survive, and the objective of the level is "Let no Dark Templar escape", specifically. This is sensible from the original Overmind, and absurd if it has a death wish. Besides, who does it send to kill the enemies that must be kept alive at all costs? Kerrigan, the other being that must be kept alive at all costs. Telenil, I agree with most of what you say. Just remember that 1) The suspense about how the retcon works was intentional and that 2) still, in "Echoes of the future" we see Zeratul feeling the following things from the Overmind's nerves: -... pain. Surprise. Death. -... death... and joy? -... satisfaction... in a plan set in motion long ago... and... fear of the future? -... an end "A plan set in motion long ago". The Overming was planning something. If the retcon is well done, it will explain why it hunted the Dark Templar. But just for lore theorycrafting sake: we don't know how its slavery worked, but maybe it couldn't ignore any direct threat to itself, so its suicide plan had to be intrincate. It had its eyes all over the Koprulu Sector and maybe it could even foresee Tassadar's, Zeratul's and Raynor's actions. I believe we will have a good explanation for most things. I'm not against the retcon if it is well done. | ||
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
Come on, you can figure it by yourself. It feels almost ridiculous to remind it, but as far as we know, Zeratul and the Dark Templar are the only people in the universe that can kill the Cerebrate and remove thousands of Zerg from the war with one blow. Kerrigan thought Tassadar wasn't much a threat, and next thing we know, a Cerebrate is dead and an entire Brood has to be eradicated. But even their military value is nothing compared to the fact that they can kill the Overmind - Tassadar uses "Dark Templar energies" to destroy the first, and Zeratul himself slays the second. The Overmind is the collective conscience of all Zerg, and thus he is immortal - except if he is struck by members of a certain group, in which case all the Zerg would turn into mindless animals. I agree that at this point of the game, Tassadar himself hasn't proven as dangerous as the Dark Templar, although his proximity to Zeratul is enough to hunt to him down, just to be safe. But the Dark Templar were more threatening than a fleet of carriers, the entire Swarm wasn't safe as long as they lived. About the installation mission specifically, I would just assume the Dark Templar locked themselves in, just like the Terran did. Kerrigan and the Zerg never took prisonners. right, which is why we have to go to such ends to rescue them if there as powerful as they are why didnt they know that Tassadar and co had entered to find them and met them halfway instead of chilling in there cells? yes, dark templar IN GENERAL are a threat becuase of there wierd power, it makes dark templars as a whole a threat an individual dark templar is not a threat if Zeratul could have gone rambo and solod the overmind he would have | ||
therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
| ||
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On April 25 2012 23:34 therockmanxx wrote: I think we are missing a huge plot hole that was in starcraft ghost ... i dont think starcraft ghost was ever far enough in the production cycle to have much lore in it | ||
Demerzel
23 Posts
| ||
Deimos0
Poland277 Posts
| ||
Demerzel
23 Posts
| ||
| ||