EPTHeart of the Swarm (details, discussion, etc) - Page 32
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Gorkon
Canada8 Posts
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nerak
Brazil256 Posts
The different "Kerrigan modes" and unit-specific upgrades look quite interesting as well. So what do you think the modes will be? There was the zergy-mode, the psi-ops mode, that aparently dealt with manipulation; there's a photo from Blizzcon with a mode called "Destruction", is that just psi-ops renamed? ![[image loading]](http://www.starcraft2brasil.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/poderes.jpg) What could the other two focuses be? Well let's think, what does Kerrigan do... she controls the Swarm; destroys things with her mind; she used to be a ghost, so there must be invisibility/hallucination/manipulation abilities; and what else? Raw phisical power? | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On April 14 2012 05:10 nerak wrote: They did a hell of a job develping Raynor's character. I'm really excited to see where's Sarah's going. Now Zeratul? I'm actually worried. He's an alien. He's literally a thousand years old. All those things make him a hard character to develop. And he is a ninja. The gravity force pulling him to "epic" and "awesome" will be too strong and that sucks for character development. So what do you think the modes will be? There was the zergy-mode, the psi-ops mode, that aparently dealt with manipulation; there's a photo from Blizzcon with a mode called "Destruction", is that just psi-ops renamed? What could the other two focuses be? Well let's think, what does Kerrigan do... she controls the Swarm; destroys things with her mind; she used to be a ghost, so there must be invisibility/hallucination/manipulation abilities; and what else? Raw phisical power? there could be tons of focuses the blizzcon wasnt set in stone stuff and i think they said they were toying around with having many types of focus like one focus could be more stealth stuff and long range things, one could be more brute force, one could be mroe AoE, one could be more single target, one could be more helpful for your side theres tons of different types of focuses they could do | ||
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nerak
Brazil256 Posts
But that would be sexist. EDIT: Now talking about sexism... why the hell is her costume so tight? Look at the picture I posted above and resize it. You can actually see the curve between ther legs and her crotch. And what about this one? He costume must be literally in contact with her genitals. I don't know if it is sexual objectification or not, I don't know if this is sexist or not, but one thing I know is that I'll look stupid when my wife find out I'm playing a game where the heroine uses something this erotic. She will think I'm 14 years old. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:25 nerak wrote: There could be this focus where Kerrigan stays at base macroing and larvaeing. But that would be sexist. EDIT: Now talking about sexism... why the hell is her costume so tight? Look at the picture I posted above and resize it. You can actually see the curve between ther legs and her crotch. And what about this one? He costume must be literally in contact with her genitals. I don't know if it is sexual objectification or not, I don't know if this is sexist or not, but one thing I know is that I'll look stupid when my wife find out I'm playing a game where the heroine uses something this erotic. She will think I'm 14 years old. what about skin tight dont you understand? | ||
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TheMatrix
51 Posts
With Diablo 3 requiring to be always online and their milking of SC2 and not allowing free and unlimited name changes and how crap bnet 0.2 is, they are really on my last nerves. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:25 nerak wrote: There could be this focus where Kerrigan stays at base macroing and larvaeing. But that would be sexist. EDIT: Now talking about sexism... why the hell is her costume so tight? Look at the picture I posted above and resize it. You can actually see the curve between ther legs and her crotch. And what about this one? He costume must be literally in contact with her genitals. I don't know if it is sexual objectification or not, I don't know if this is sexist or not, but one thing I know is that I'll look stupid when my wife find out I'm playing a game where the heroine uses something this erotic. She will think I'm 14 years old. Ghosts have always be in the lore wearing the skin-tightest skin-tight suits or whatever. It's supposed to be a "second skin." I mean this for Nova is FAR more ridiculous. Come to think of it. That must go for male ghosts too. | ||
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jeeeeohn
United States1343 Posts
WoL was an epic cheesy brooding mess, but I loved it, and I want more. I hope though that they return to the darker roots of the series, with actual character development. I hope Kerrigan isn't infallible like Raynor, and makes bad decisions. I'm particularly intrigued by one of her companions in the leviathan, who introduces itself as "the remnants of your infestation" or something, which leads me to believe it's a hallucination, to be honest (which is awesome). I have no idea why they retconned Raynor's promise to kill Kerrigan. I don't know why they made Zeratul sound like a novice instead of the thousand year old badass he really is. I wish the campaign held more weight with me beyond the amazing gameplay. Not to say that the dialogue didn't resonate with me at all, but it didn't even strike as many chords as WCIII: FT. I wish Raynor had more competent opponents, and wasn't surrounded by geniuses. I wish his raiders actually felt like pirates instead of an unstoppable war machine. Even still, WoL is one of my favorite RTS ever, and I'll probably replay the campaign for a fifth (yes, 5) time, probably on normal since I beat it on brutal already. ANYWAY, to sum up: I wanna play HOTS and know what happened to Kerrigan T_T | ||
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Meiya
Australia1169 Posts
On April 16 2012 12:33 jeeeeohn wrote: ...I hope Kerrigan isn't infallible like Raynor, and makes bad decisions.... It could be argued that his sacrificing the momentum he had gained against the Dominion to go chasing Kerrigan was a bad decision, at least tactically. Naturally it was important for his own catharsis, but that is exactly why Horner argued against it. As for why he doesn't want her dead, it is reasonable to suggest that the rage he felt when Fenix died may have subsided somewhat over time, and he now blames the Zerg for what Kerrigan is, and not her. Which to be honest, seems reasonable since she wasn't a genocidal bitch when she was a Ghost. | ||
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nerak
Brazil256 Posts
Come to think of it. That must go for male ghosts too. Then, I was politically outraged. Now, I want to rip my eyes out. Thanks for the nightmare fuel. I hope though that they return to the darker roots of the series The deepest wish of my heart, too. Just in case, jee(...)eon is talking about this review. Great read. with actual character development Now wait a second. I think Raynor's development was awesome. He became a wonderful, powerful character. Even with all the cliches in and around him. The character that was butchered and depersonalized in WoL is called Starcraft Universe. "Failure in world-building": I think this sums pretty well what was wrong with WoL. I have no idea why they retconned Raynor's promise to kill Kerrigan They didn't. 4 years had passed, Raynor probably changed a lot as a person. But what happened to him that all his rage became grief? They don't explain, and maybe they should. When WoL started when I saw Raynor looking at Sarah's picture like that, I got so pissed of. I thought they dumbed down the whole plot. But that was actually very good for Raynor's development. He's not longing for his lost "girlfriend", as Horner taunts him. He longs for himself. He failed; and we can start again, but we can't undo failure; and that's Raynor's tragedy. He can't start again for the 424th time in his life, the only thing that could save him is undoing his failure, and that's impossible. So he is doomed. So when Valerian says, "hey, you know that aspect of human existence everybody has to overcome, that we can't change the past, that aspect that those that can't cope with become ghosts of themselves while still breathing? You don't need to deal with it anymore", Raynor goes crazy about it. He was doomed and now he isn't anymore; that's a very good story about redemption, about hopelessness, about obsession. What I mean is that they should have had greater respect for BW fans and told us why Raynor changed his mind; but that change of mind was very good for the story. | ||
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Telenil
France484 Posts
On April 16 2012 14:35 nerak wrote: As far as Raynor's own actions and choices are concerned, trusting Kerrigan when fighting the UED or believing Mengsk was a good-hearted idealist were far worse mistakes than letting Arcrturus' soldiers fight the Protoss. It can be argued that Fenix's death is Raynor's fault to an extent, but Kerrigan's infestation is not. What could he have done, forcing her to stay on the Hyperion at gunpoint? His reaction is not a rational but an emotional one, if it were anyone other than Kerrigan, he wouldn't blame himself like that. So he does long for Sarah Kerrigan, his ex-girlfriend, specifically.When WoL started when I saw Raynor looking at Sarah's picture like that, I got so pissed of. I thought they dumbed down the whole plot. But that was actually very good for Raynor's development. He's not longing for his lost "girlfriend", as Horner taunts him. He longs for himself. He failed; and we can start again, but we can't undo failure; and that's Raynor's tragedy. He can't start again for the 424th time in his life, the only thing that could save him is undoing his failure, and that's impossible. So he is doomed. So when Valerian says, "hey, you know that aspect of human existence everybody has to overcome, that we can't change the past, that aspect that those that can't cope with become ghosts of themselves while still breathing? You don't need to deal with it anymore", Raynor goes crazy about it. He was doomed and now he isn't anymore; that's a very good story about redemption, about hopelessness, about obsession. What I mean is that they should have had greater respect for BW fans and told us why Raynor changed his mind; but that change of mind was very good for the story. Which is really weird, as the review puts it, "Imagine for a second your wife going on a murder spree as well as killing your best friend by stabbing him in the back with a steak knife, and then divorcing you. It would be unthinkable to forgive her just because four years went by." Yes, seeing the woman he loved turning evil and her murdering his friends is Raynor's tragedy, but in my opinion the artifact is a very lame way to solve it. Raynor could eventually have overcome his depression by accepting he can't change the past but that he can make a difference now by fighting the current war instead of replaying the old one - something of the sort. In WoL, he never gets to the point where he accepts his failures and move on, he conveniently finds a magic button that does exactly the impossible thing he was obsessed with. In other words, Raynor has impossible dreams at the beginning of WoL and gets them fulfilled in the end; this is not redemption. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 16 2012 18:54 Telenil wrote: Trusting Kerrigan when fighting the UED or believing Mengsk was a good-hearted idealist were objectively far worse mistakes than letting Arcrturus' soldiers fight the Protoss. It can be argued that Fenix's death is Raynor's fault to an extent, but Kerrigan's infestation is not. What could he have done, forcing her to stay on the Hyperion at gunpoint? His reaction is not a rational but an emotional one, if it were anyone other than Kerrigan, he wouldn't blame himself like that. It is for Sarah Kerrigan specifically that he is longing. Which is really weird, as the review puts it, "Imagine for a second your wife going on a murder spree as well as killing your best friend by stabbing him in the back with a steak knife, and then divorcing you. It would be unthinkable to forgive her just because four years went by." Yes, seeing the woman he loved turning evil and her murdering his friends is Raynor's tragedy, but in my opinion the artifact is a very lame way to solve it. Raynor could eventually have overcome his depression by accepting he can't change the past but that he can make a difference now by fighting the current war instead of replaying the old one - something of the sort. In WoL, he never gets to the point where he accepts his failures and move on, he conveniently finds a magic button that does exactly the impossible thing he was obsessed with. In other words, Raynor has impossible dreams at the beginning of WoL and gets them fulfilled in the end; this is not redemption. One can only hope that they had a deeper reason as to the existence of the 'magic button' and the fulfillment of his 'impossible dreams'. Recall that it is Tychus who sets Jim on his path to obtain the artifacts. Recall it is 'Dr Narud' who heads the mobius foundation. Recall SC1 was all about manipulation and deception. It isn't implausible that Duran, acting as Narud, convinces Mengsk (or whomever) to set Tychus on a path leading Jim to collect the artifacts. Assuming Duran has a master plan, it isn't unreasonable to assume that triggering the artifact in the way Jim did on Char was the catalyst or the start of a chain reaction setting in motion the events leading to the rise of Hybrids. This theory, of course, assumes that the 'overmind/tassadar' hybrid isn't actually real, and instead a manifestation of the Dark Voice set to manipulate Zeratul into believing that saving Kerrigan is the only way to save the universe. In doing so, Zeratul also reinforces the idea that Jim must save Kerrigan, despite whatever his feelings are telling him (this alone, could account for why Jim saves her, given Jim and Zeratul's friendship). So while Jim's dreams may be impossible (if they were his dreams at all), my bet is that the Dark Voice/Duran is exploiting his human weaknesses in order to fulfill the DV's grand scheme. Of course this assumes Blizzard actually has a diabolical master plan and would certainly make Duran one of the most manipulative and brilliant villains of all time. | ||
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jeeeeohn
United States1343 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:08 Plexa wrote: One can only hope that they had a deeper reason as to the existence of the 'magic button' and the fulfillment of his 'impossible dreams'. Recall that it is Tychus who sets Jim on his path to obtain the artifacts. Recall it is 'Dr Narud' who heads the mobius foundation. Recall SC1 was all about manipulation and deception. It isn't implausible that Duran, acting as Narud, convinces Mengsk (or whomever) to set Tychus on a path leading Jim to collect the artifacts. Assuming Duran has a master plan, it isn't unreasonable to assume that triggering the artifact in the way Jim did on Char was the catalyst or the start of a chain reaction setting in motion the events leading to the rise of Hybrids. This theory, of course, assumes that the 'overmind/tassadar' hybrid isn't actually real, and instead a manifestation of the Dark Voice set to manipulate Zeratul into believing that saving Kerrigan is the only way to save the universe. In doing so, Zeratul also reinforces the idea that Jim must save Kerrigan, despite whatever his feelings are telling him (this alone, could account for why Jim saves her, given Jim and Zeratul's friendship). So while Jim's dreams may be impossible (if they were his dreams at all), my bet is that the Dark Voice/Duran is exploiting his human weaknesses in order to fulfill the DV's grand scheme. Of course this assumes Blizzard actually has a diabolical master plan and would certainly make Duran one of the most manipulative and brilliant villains of all time. As much as I'd love for this to happen, I don't think Blizzard is that devious (not anymore). You can actually draw a parallel between their business strategy post-Wrath WoW and Starcraft 2's story: Their games now revolve around making the player feel unstoppable. I once remarked that WoW doesn't feel "dangerous" anymore, whereas vanilla WoW threatened to kill you every 10 seconds. The same applies to SC2. The original and BW felt very dangerous (so much so that I haven't beaten it yet without cheats). Starcraft 2 feels like Raynor's wet dream: everything that could possibly go right for Raynor went right. He turned into a mary sue character. Even on brutal, the proper strategy makes the game easier than the original Starcraft, which is absurd. I don't think Blizzard has any master plan. I think the game was cheesy because it was cheesy and that was what Blizzard wanted. HoTS gets me excited because everything I've seen shows a brooding, conflicted, dangerous Kerrigan. "The killing will never stop until Mengsk is dead." <---How baller is that to get rescued only to shun the rescuer and seek vengeance? Anyway, my two cents. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Telenil
France484 Posts
On April 16 2012 20:08 Plexa wrote: Assuming Duran has a master plan, it isn't unreasonable to assume that triggering the artifact in the way Jim did on Char was the catalyst or the start of a chain reaction setting in motion the events leading to the rise of Hybrids. This theory, of course, assumes that the 'overmind/tassadar' hybrid isn't actually real, and instead a manifestation of the Dark Voice set to manipulate Zeratul into believing that saving Kerrigan is the only way to save the universe. In doing so, Zeratul also reinforces the idea that Jim must save Kerrigan, despite whatever his feelings are telling him (this alone, could account for why Jim saves her, given Jim and Zeratul's friendship). So while Jim's dreams may be impossible (if they were his dreams at all), my bet is that the Dark Voice/Duran is exploiting his human weaknesses in order to fulfill the DV's grand scheme. That's certainly the kind of Author's Saving Throw I'd like to see, if only because it un-retcons the Overmind's nature. I'm not convinced it's going to happen though, none of the writers implied they would tweak the events of WoL. On April 16 2012 22:07 monkybone wrote: This was probably because he was the one leaving her on Tarsonis. That was discussed a bit in Brood War, with Kerrigan telling him he was directly responsible for the hell she had been through. Back then she decided to let him live, but after WoL, she changed her mind because... well... because.Why does Kerrigan hate Mengsk now? | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
Look at what you have! The Overmind's goal was the exact same goal as the Xel'Naga! Combining the Purity of Essence and Form! I'm sorry, but I don't think the Overmind being a "slave" to the Xel'Naga was a retcon at all. That was planned from the start. They may have figured out how to place Kerrigan in all of that afterwards, but the Overmind thing imo was planned. Oh and remember, Plexa, Duran works for a higher power. He's not allowed to be the mastermind. | ||
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Telenil
France484 Posts
On April 17 2012 01:49 DoubleReed wrote: This a retcon, too. One that started slightly earlier, since it was introduced in the Dark Templar trilogy (which served as a prologue to WoL), but a retcon nonethless.Look, the Xel'Naga wanted to the Zerg and Protoss to merge into the new Xel'Naga (which may or may not be the hybrids) Look at what you have! The Overmind's goal was the exact same goal as the Xel'Naga! Combining the Purity of Essence and Form! In the original, the Xel'Naga guided the evolution of various species For Science, and eventually decided to focus on the Protoss. Unfortunately the Protoss turned against each other, and the Xel'Naga themselves, shortly after they revealed their existence. The Xel'Naga realized the Protoss weren't the creation they hoped for, they were flawed -a failure- because their ego had corrupted what they called their "essence". Thus, they created the notion of "purity of essence", which they deemed to be more important than the "purity of form". When they found the worms that would become the Zerg, they granted them the ability to assimilate the DNA of the various lifeforms they encountered - they had decided purity of form didn't matter. They then created the Overmind as the collective conscience of the Zerg, so that they wouldn't turn on each other like the Protoss did. They watched the Zerg become the dominant species on their world, until the Overmind managed to assimilate a creature that could travel through space and make all Zerg able to survive in the vacuum. Hooray, the Xel'Naga thought, the second attempt was the right one; we've guided the evolution of a sentient race that remained pure in essence and it can now leave its planet. Then the Zerg slaughtered them, and the Overmind discovered the existence of the Protoss by looking through Xel'Naga archives and memories. It considered the first creation of the Xel'Naga to be a giant step towards "perfection" - improving the Zerg through assimilation of worthy species. It sent the Swarm in the general direction of the Protoss worlds (he didn't know the exact position), and Starcraft begins when he gets there. Source: Starcraft 1 manual. Something that contradicts the above story is a retcon. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
What could he have done, forcing her to stay on the Hyperion at gunpoint? he could ahve convinced her better, he could ahve gone with her, he could ahve put himself in a position to evac her but he didnt all he could do was jsut watch her die and he blames himself, jsut like he blames himself for fenix dieing Which is really weird, as the review puts it, "Imagine for a second your wife going on a murder spree as well as killing your best friend by stabbing him in the back with a steak knife, and then divorcing you. It would be unthinkable to forgive her just because four years went by." thats not comparable, it would be like if your wife had some insane mental condition that was kept in check by pills, and she was running out so she asked you to go to the store and get her refill, but you didnt and as a result she went crazy and went on a murder spree pretty sure at that point youd blame yourself One can only hope that they had a deeper reason as to the existence of the 'magic button' and the fulfillment of his 'impossible dreams'. Recall that it is Tychus who sets Jim on his path to obtain the artifacts. Recall it is 'Dr Narud' who heads the mobius foundation. Recall SC1 was all about manipulation and deception. It isn't implausible that Duran, acting as Narud, convinces Mengsk (or whomever) to set Tychus on a path leading Jim to collect the artifacts. Assuming Duran has a master plan, it isn't unreasonable to assume that triggering the artifact in the way Jim did on Char was the catalyst or the start of a chain reaction setting in motion the events leading to the rise of Hybrids. i actually came up with a semi-plausible and completely crazy scenario that involves Duran actually being Naruds replcament in Kerrigans swarm and everything happening in WoL being an extremely complicated plan by kerrigan basically its Kerrigan already knowing what the artifact can do to her and purposely allowing Raynor to gather it and take the hit in order to gain raynors trust so she can learn what Zeratul discovered on Ulaan In doing so, Zeratul also reinforces the idea that Jim must save Kerrigan, despite whatever his feelings are telling him (this alone, could account for why Jim saves her, given Jim and Zeratul's friendship). i think the existance of the artifact is what saves Kerrigan also i dont think Jim was ever in any danger of actual killing Kerrigan, i think theres another threat that has a good chance of killing Kerrigan and Raynor will be put in a position to stop this threat Even on brutal, the proper strategy makes the game easier than the original Starcraft, which is absurd. i dont think we can fault game designers for making difficulties that are doable, lots of people struggle very hard to get brutal done it is in no way easy mode Why does Kerrigan hate Mengsk now? if someone tried to kill you youd hate them to | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On April 19 2012 20:28 Telenil wrote: This a retcon, too. One that started slightly earlier, since it was introduced in the Dark Templar trilogy (which served as a prologue to WoL), but a retcon nonethless. In the original, the Xel'Naga guided the evolution of various species For Science, and eventually decided to focus on the Protoss. Unfortunately the Protoss turned against each other, and the Xel'Naga themselves, shortly after they revealed their existence. The Xel'Naga realized the Protoss weren't the creation they hoped for, they were flawed -a failure- because their ego had corrupted what they called their "essence". Thus, they created the notion of "purity of essence", which they deemed to be more important than the "purity of form". When they found the worms that would become the Zerg, they granted them the ability to assimilate the DNA of the various lifeforms they encountered - they had decided purity of form didn't matter. They then created the Overmind as the collective conscience of the Zerg, so that they wouldn't turn on each other like the Protoss did. They watched the Zerg become the dominant species on their world, until the Overmind managed to assimilate a creature that could travel through space and make all Zerg able to survive in the vacuum. Hooray, the Xel'Naga thought, the second attempt was the right one; we've guided the evolution of a sentient race that remained pure in essence and it can now leave its planet. Then the Zerg slaughtered them, and the Overmind discovered the existence of the Protoss by looking through Xel'Naga archives and memories. It considered the first creation of the Xel'Naga to be a giant step towards "perfection" - improving the Zerg through assimilation of worthy species. It sent the Swarm in the general direction of the Protoss worlds (he didn't know the exact position), and Starcraft begins when he gets there. Source: Starcraft 1 manual. Something that contradicts the above story is a retcon. Yea yea we all know what's in the starcraft 1 manual. It raises kind of a weird question though: Can Blizzard plan retcons? Like the Starcraft 1 manual says that the Protoss are a failure and the Zerg a success, and the Zerg betrays them and kills all the Xel'Naga. Does that mean bringing any Xel'Naga back (not all of them died) is a retcon? Is Dark Origin essentially a retcon? Can you have a retcon like that? Maybe I just don't like the word retcon. Either way, I honestly like the retcons that they employed in WoL. Guess it's just me. if someone tried to kill you youd hate them to Oh come on, everyone's tried to kill the Queen Bitch of the Universe by now. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
Oh come on, everyone's tried to kill the Queen Bitch of the Universe by now. ya which is why shes trying to burn the entire universe | ||
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