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On February 25 2012 04:05 Igaryu85 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 01:24 DoubleReed wrote:
Plus the books were pretty cool, and introduced an evil massive dark archon Ulrezaj. I don't expect him to appear until the third installment.
I could be wrong of course but I doubt Ulrezaj will be playing a major role in SC2... allthough it would be hilarious if it turns out he is the dark voice^^
I meant more like a minor villain like the taldarim or Maar.
Though to be honest he kind of went mad from what he found out about the purpose of the Protoss, so trying to force to happen with the hybrids wouldn't actually be that out of character.
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So far the books (specifically the dark templar saga) have actually been pretty canon. Selendis and the Protoss heroes in sc2 were introduced in the books.
i dunno so much about that, sure they took some characters but its not like theyve acted any different then a generic protoss they would have already introduced into the story
and that N64 game id say has been shot down as Canon, raynor seemed to have temporary amnesia about that vaccine and im willing to bet my bottom dollar we never see Stukov again
i think the stance Blizz is taking about the books is "well we wont do anything that explicity states it isnt canon but at the same time we wont acknowledge it"
besides the whole concept behind Ulrezaj is jsut dumb
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Well Ulrezaj is dumb in the awesome super sci fi way. He's perfectly fine for minor villain. I mean after the pure cheesy acting of Maar, Ulrezaj is perfectly fine. A superultramega-dark archon? Baller.
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The Dark Voice is without a doubt a fallen/evil Xel'naga. He does the same thing to the Zerg as the Xel'naga artifact does to them. (Play All In and In Utter Darkness). Only a Xel'naga could do that...(or one of their artifacts) :D
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On February 25 2012 07:09 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +So far the books (specifically the dark templar saga) have actually been pretty canon. Selendis and the Protoss heroes in sc2 were introduced in the books. i dunno so much about that, sure they took some characters but its not like theyve acted any different then a generic protoss they would have already introduced into the story and that N64 game id say has been shot down as Canon, raynor seemed to have temporary amnesia about that vaccine and im willing to bet my bottom dollar we never see Stukov again i think the stance Blizz is taking about the books is "well we wont do anything that explicity states it isnt canon but at the same time we wont acknowledge it" besides the whole concept behind Ulrezaj is jsut dumb
Blizzard has hinted at the fact that Stukov is around somewhere for a while now, so I wouldn't dismiss it yet.
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On February 25 2012 13:22 DoubleReed wrote:
Well Ulrezaj is dumb in the awesome super sci fi way. He's perfectly fine for minor villain. I mean after the pure cheesy acting of Maar, Ulrezaj is perfectly fine. A superultramega-dark archon? Baller.
it makes no sense that 7 dark templar merging somehow creates a super archon that can crush an entire army without breaking a sweat
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On February 26 2012 00:39 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 13:22 DoubleReed wrote:
Well Ulrezaj is dumb in the awesome super sci fi way. He's perfectly fine for minor villain. I mean after the pure cheesy acting of Maar, Ulrezaj is perfectly fine. A superultramega-dark archon? Baller. it makes no sense that 7 dark templar merging somehow creates a super archon that can crush an entire army without breaking a sweat
???
Dude, it's sci fi. It makes perfect sense. I have no idea what you're talking about. The mergingness could be exponential for all you know. Haven't you ever heard of the Rule of Cool?
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On February 26 2012 02:30 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 00:39 Forikorder wrote:On February 25 2012 13:22 DoubleReed wrote:
Well Ulrezaj is dumb in the awesome super sci fi way. He's perfectly fine for minor villain. I mean after the pure cheesy acting of Maar, Ulrezaj is perfectly fine. A superultramega-dark archon? Baller. it makes no sense that 7 dark templar merging somehow creates a super archon that can crush an entire army without breaking a sweat ??? Dude, it's sci fi. It makes perfect sense. I have no idea what you're talking about. The mergingness could be exponential for all you know. Haven't you ever heard of the Rule of Cool?
while the rule of cool is rarely helpful in this case it isnt
nothing good happens when you tear apart the rules of a universe, like in air gear where the shoes went from cool roller skates to stuff that shot lasers and controlled exploding bubbles
starcraft is supposed to be sci fi, so while they do have some cool psionic stuff jimmy isnt about to go into the mountains and learn how to start shooting out Kamehamehas
the whole idea behind archons is there an emergency measure there something high templar do in only the most grave situations and get honoured forever for making the sacrifice becuase archons are not permament
they do not suck the life out of others to preserve there own lives and nothing in the starcraft universe takes out entire armies on its own and not break a sweat
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On February 26 2012 13:08 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 02:30 DoubleReed wrote:On February 26 2012 00:39 Forikorder wrote:On February 25 2012 13:22 DoubleReed wrote:
Well Ulrezaj is dumb in the awesome super sci fi way. He's perfectly fine for minor villain. I mean after the pure cheesy acting of Maar, Ulrezaj is perfectly fine. A superultramega-dark archon? Baller. it makes no sense that 7 dark templar merging somehow creates a super archon that can crush an entire army without breaking a sweat ??? Dude, it's sci fi. It makes perfect sense. I have no idea what you're talking about. The mergingness could be exponential for all you know. Haven't you ever heard of the Rule of Cool? while the rule of cool is rarely helpful in this case it isnt nothing good happens when you tear apart the rules of a universe, like in air gear where the shoes went from cool roller skates to stuff that shot lasers and controlled exploding bubbles starcraft is supposed to be sci fi, so while they do have some cool psionic stuff jimmy isnt about to go into the mountains and learn how to start shooting out Kamehamehas the whole idea behind archons is there an emergency measure there something high templar do in only the most grave situations and get honoured forever for making the sacrifice becuase archons are not permament they do not suck the life out of others to preserve there own lives and nothing in the starcraft universe takes out entire armies on its own and not break a sweat
God I wish Raynor would do that
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Why do they not all just die and reappear as ghosts in a game like Pacman. They could call it PacCraft and revolutionize the gambling machines market.
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On February 27 2012 07:32 Perscienter wrote:
Why do they not all just die and reappear as ghosts in a game like Pacman. They could call it PacCraft and revolutionize the gambling machines market.
and then use the money to fund there new MMO
WORLD OF PACRAFT
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Just wanted to thank the OP for this thread. The majority of it has been a really good, interesting read. There's some really brilliant speculation!
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I think there's a strong possibility Ulrezaj will appear at some point, either in HotS or (more likely) in LotV- I haven't read any novels, but I do remember him from the Enslavers campaign for the original starcraft. Really cool set of maps, btw.
From a game design perspective, LotV will need to include missions with all 3 Protoss matchups- PvT, PvZ and PvP. PvP is harder to justify from a story perspective, however. In SC and BW, PvP missions were justified story-wise as a big split between Protoss factions- Tassadar wanting to ally with the then-heathen Zeratul and his Dark Templar in order to defeat the Zerg and its Cerebrates, while Aldaris and the Conclave were a lot more concerned with preventing the Protoss who were connected to the Khala from being tainted by the Dark Templar and those who consort with them.
That excuse for PvP missions is gone now though; Aldaris is dead, the Conclave is no more, and the Protoss from Aiur had no choice but to accept the Dark Templar and seek refuge in their world of Shakuras. So how do you justify PvP missions for LotV? Ulrezaj fits like a glove, here. A bitter Dark Templar, resentful of how the Conclave exiled his kind from Aiur, becomes this powerful Dark Archon who is opposed to letting the Khalai Protoss refugees from Aiur settle in Shakuras. I think this would be a far more compelling narrative for the PvP missions in LotV than random fights with the Tal'darim and such.
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I think there's a strong possibility Ulrezaj will appear at some point, either in HotS or (more likely) in LotV- I haven't read any novels, but I do remember him from the Enslavers campaign for the original starcraft. Really cool set of maps, btw.
considering that the current taldarim are obviously unrelated to the past taldarim its very likely Ulrezaj doesnt exist
From a game design perspective, LotV will need to include missions with all 3 Protoss matchups- PvT, PvZ and PvP. PvP is harder to justify from a story perspective, however. In SC and BW, PvP missions were justified story-wise as a big split between Protoss factions- Tassadar wanting to ally with the then-heathen Zeratul and his Dark Templar in order to defeat the Zerg and its Cerebrates, while Aldaris and the Conclave were a lot more concerned with preventing the Protoss who were connected to the Khala from being tainted by the Dark Templar.
since there was a PvP in WoL i dont think theyll ahve trouble
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On February 29 2012 10:16 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +From a game design perspective, LotV will need to include missions with all 3 Protoss matchups- PvT, PvZ and PvP. PvP is harder to justify from a story perspective, however. In SC and BW, PvP missions were justified story-wise as a big split between Protoss factions- Tassadar wanting to ally with the then-heathen Zeratul and his Dark Templar in order to defeat the Zerg and its Cerebrates, while Aldaris and the Conclave were a lot more concerned with preventing the Protoss who were connected to the Khala from being tainted by the Dark Templar. since there was a PvP in WoL i dont think theyll ahve trouble
It's not the same though. One thing is gameplay (PvP, PvT, etc.)- story is a different element altogether.
What you got in WoL was a Protoss mini-campaign about the Prophecy and the Hybrids; in the PvP mission, the real opponent, story-wise, is Maar, who happens to have mind-controlled a small Protoss colony.
Let's look at WoL story arcs. There's the Tosh story arc, the Hanson story arc, the Moebius story arc... but I want to focus on the following story arcs (which may overlap with some of the others):
- Jim Raynor's band of mercenaries vs. Emperor Arcturus Mengsk and the Terran Dominion. It's the reason Raynor is a fugitive, you're constantly reminded of this struggle via the News between missions. It's the reason Matt Horner and a good part of the crew on the Hyperion are following Raynor on his adventure. And it's the reason why you get TvT missions, for the most part.
- The Zerg threat to humanity and the Queen of Blades. This one is pretty much a gimme; you really don't need an elaborate reason to see Terrans fighting Zergs, although towards the end it's all about Jim Raynor wanting to save Sarah Kerrigan. This is why you get TvZ missions, for the most part.
- The Xel'naga artifact. What starts as a treasure hunt ends up as Raynor's desperate attempt to save Kerrigan with the Xel'naga artifact, even though it costs him the opportunity to take down Arcturus Mengsk. As it happens, most of the fragments of the artifact were in possession of the Tal'Darim, who will defend them with their lives. This is the main reason why you get PvT missions (yes, I know "The Outlaws" has the first artifact fragment and is a TvT, and that "Welcome to the Jungle" and "Safe Haven" are from different story arcs and are both TvPs, but for the most part, the TvP missions and the Artifact story arc are aligned).
As shown above, there are story arcs tying the different missions for each matchup; there's a narrative, a progression, and it adds a lot of flavor to the campaign. Maar mind-controlling a small Protoss colony is a decent reason to have a single PvP mission, but you can't have all PvP missions in LotV be about Hybrids mind-controlling different Protoss tribes; you need an actual story arc for PvP. A major conflict between Zeratul and Ulrezaj could be this story arc- or maybe Blizzard will choose to use a different one and pass up Ulrezaj entirely. With the information we have so far, however, I believe fighting Ulrezaj is the most likely story arc for PvP in LotV.
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and Zeratul VS Maar isnt a good story arc?
theres no way they bring in Ulrezaj
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On February 29 2012 11:37 Forikorder wrote:
and Zeratul VS Maar isnt a good story arc?
theres no way they bring in Ulrezaj
No, because Maar is dead.
EDIT: Also, even if they did bring Maar back, and there was somehow a story arc about him, I don't see how it would be a story arc that would tie several PvP missions together.
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On February 29 2012 11:42 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 11:37 Forikorder wrote:
and Zeratul VS Maar isnt a good story arc?
theres no way they bring in Ulrezaj No, because Maar is dead.
ya right, the dude dies like 10 times and each time he teleports back to the preservers to heal, why cant he teleport somewhere else after the preservers were free?
Ulrezaj takes down alrge armies alone, thats not much of a story arc it would be like every single mission being supernova only instead of a slow wall of fire its a fast archon
EDIT: Also, even if they did somehow bring Maar back, and there was somehow a story arc about him, I don't see how it would be a story arc that would tie several PvP missions together.
Last edit: 2012-02-29 11:45:38
wouldnt be ahrd it would be him travelling around either A) stopping him from doing something B) him trying to stop Zeratul from doing something or C) him trying to corrupt tribes and you have to compete against him to win the tribe
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On February 29 2012 11:45 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 11:42 Zato-1 wrote:On February 29 2012 11:37 Forikorder wrote:
and Zeratul VS Maar isnt a good story arc?
theres no way they bring in Ulrezaj No, because Maar is dead. ya right, the dude dies like 10 times and each time he teleports back to the preservers to heal, why cant he teleport somewhere else after the preservers were free? Ulrezaj takes down alrge armies alone, thats not much of a story arc it would be like every single mission being supernova only instead of a slow wall of fire its a fast archon
The Queen of Blades can kick the butt of an army single handedly, and that didn't seem to be a huge problem. Also note how you're fighting against her forces in several missions, but you only fight against her directly as a unit once, in the final mission. The same could be true for Ulrezaj as a villain.
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On February 29 2012 11:49 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 11:45 Forikorder wrote:On February 29 2012 11:42 Zato-1 wrote:On February 29 2012 11:37 Forikorder wrote:
and Zeratul VS Maar isnt a good story arc?
theres no way they bring in Ulrezaj No, because Maar is dead. ya right, the dude dies like 10 times and each time he teleports back to the preservers to heal, why cant he teleport somewhere else after the preservers were free? Ulrezaj takes down alrge armies alone, thats not much of a story arc it would be like every single mission being supernova only instead of a slow wall of fire its a fast archon The Queen of Blades can kick the butt of an army single handedly, and that didn't seem to be a huge problem. Also note how you're fighting against her forces in several missions, but you only fight against her directly as a unit once, in the final mission. The same could be true for Ulrezaj as a villain.
no the queen of blades does not take out entire armies she can take out a squad by herself not an entire army by farting
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EPT
