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5. What are the canon endings for Tosh and Dr. Handsome? If they both die, that fucking sucks cuz that means their missions were nothing but filler. That means the campaign is even smaller than it already feels.
blizzard or metzen said in an interview that the choices that offer least casualities are cannon (hanson and tosh are cannon).
BLizzard are just bad. i wont even expect anything from heart of the swarm and honestly i dont care anymore. The amount of crap i desire to eat can only go so faar.
Missions and multiplayer is awesome though.
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United States12235 Posts
I liked the single-player campaign. I don't know what a lot of people in this thread are talking about as though the Protoss were all unified at one point, or the Zerg were all unified, or the Terrans were. That was never the case. There is always dissension among the ranks, or splinter factions. The Conclave fought with the Dark Templar, the Zerg fought rogue Cerebrates or used Kerrigan to destroy Cerebrates loyal to the new Overmind, and the Confederacy, Dominion and UED fought constantly.
I watched the last cinematic and said aloud to my monitor: "...that's it??" Then I realized that this was merely Act I in the trilogy and unanswered questions were inevitable. I would have liked some kind of grand revelation or action against Mengsk or something better than the completely open-ended result that we saw.
I don't think the writing is as bad as a lot of people claim it to be. I really liked a lot of the new characters, especially Tychus. I questioned Kerrigan reverting to a human but now I'm interested to see what will become of it... will she be able to command the Zerg? People like to compare the Hybrid to the Burning Legion but it's not that superficial. The graying-over of the races in War3 and especially War3x was done in preparation of WoW where each of these races would be playable, and it creates a more dynamic and deeper story than the cliched good versus evil. The ending sets up Heart of the Swarm perfectly where we'll either see Kerrigan continue to command the Zerg or someone new step up to lead them.
Someone in this thread said that it didn't make any sense for Raynor to rescue Kerrigan after he said in the first game that he would be the one to kill her. That actually makes perfect sense in context. He wanted her to be redeemed but if worse came to worst he would take responsibility. It's like an Old Yeller type scenario. He stuck with his emo thoughts hoping he could get her back, and he risked everything to see that slim chance through. If it would have failed and his back was to the wall I'm sure he still would have killed her.
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Its not that writing was worse. You got older and have come to expect more, which is why you find all these cheesy one liners and recycled plots lame.
Having said that I also think sc1 was better too. And you kids get off my lawn btw!
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On August 01 2010 16:55 DocM wrote:
Another thing is that the protoss dont even care about the zerg invasion anymore which is a bit uncharacteristic considering sc1 and bw.
umm the last Dr. Hanson mission? you do realize the purpose of saving/killing the colony, yes?
A huge plot hole is that kerrigan keeps yelling at zeratul during the protoss campaign that were all going to die and its useless to continue. That we might as well get consumed by oblivion. It almost seems like she has resigned to her fate. (once again, disgustingly out of character). So how come shes still out and doing stuff when she knows that shes going to die anyway. Why does she need the xel naga artifacts if shes knows its useless.... what was her aim in obtaining them in the first place???
You do realize that there are 2 expansions, so it would be expected to leave holes in the plot. + Show Spoiler +And if you are going to question this, what about Mengsk being revolted on then is still able to keep the throne?
Furthermore, how come her years of evolution and biding her time left her weak enough to be killed by half a dominion fleet and a good tactician??? even with most her air forces or nydus forces gone. seems pretty retarded. The only thing i could come up with is that she overextended herself in the invasion of the terran worlds and didnt leave enough defense... (it says in a news report that the zerg are retreating back towards char right after you start the invasion).
Because if she was invincible, there would be no story now would there? And she wasn't defeated by the Dominion fleet singlehandedly, there was the Artifact that was used.
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On August 03 2010 06:09 EppE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 05:46 Doc Daneeka wrote:On August 02 2010 19:35 marshmallow wrote:
Using a prophecy in a sci-fi setting is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. battlestar galactica? it IS kinda unnecessary though. Horus Heresy?
Warhammer 40k is ridiculous. Plus, the Horus Heresy is awesome because it's well-written and exposes the flaws of the God-Emperor. He forsaw everything but refused to believe it because he is still human.
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On August 03 2010 08:09 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 06:09 EppE wrote:On August 03 2010 05:46 Doc Daneeka wrote:On August 02 2010 19:35 marshmallow wrote:
Using a prophecy in a sci-fi setting is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. battlestar galactica? it IS kinda unnecessary though. Horus Heresy? Warhammer 40k is ridiculous. Plus, the Horus Heresy is awesome because it's well-written and exposes the flaws of the God-Emperor. He forsaw everything but refused to believe it because he is still human.
40k is ridiculous in a way that makes it unbearably awesome! :D
I think you guys don't realize the complexity of the story. Terrans are basically fractured now because of the media blitz by Raynor; Mengsk has decent control of the core worlds but the fringe worlds broke up with them after not being helped when the zerg attacked. We also have no idea what the protoss is up to. And isn't BW basically everyone coming together (UED, Dominion, Protoss) to try and defeat the zerg?
No, BW isn't about that at all. BW was about factions, treachery, etc... Not some feel-good story that's a direct rip-off of Reign of Chaos. The only time that factions come together was at the very last mission, and they didn't even coordinate that (Mengsk even comments on this in the mission briefing). Not only that, the bolded part sounds very familiar... Oh, wait, it's the exact same story from the Confederacy before the Dominion. Fucking terrible script and a pathetic plot that isn't even ripped from other sources, it's ripped straight from their own games.
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I don't really have a problem with the Char stuff. Play it on Brutal and it doesn't feel like Char was a well handled Dominion invasion.
I do have problems with the direction of the story though. Pretty much for what everyone is saying here. Zerg were awesome because they were hell-bent rapid expansion. Having them be saviors of the universe is pretty damn lame.
Also is it just me or is the whole Tychus arc kinda lame? They build it up and up over the whole game then just have a quick ending to it all in the last 45 seconds of the campaign.
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I did not really have a problem with the story BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING RTS GAME AND NOT A MOVIE. As long as the story is somewhat entertaining and lets you kill stuff using real time strategy, then it's a good story.
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MURICA15980 Posts
I really feel the fact in SC1 that you were not one of the main characters but an unnamed "commander" or "celebrate" that controlled forces allowed the other main characters more freedom to be unpredictable and have alternate agendas. Without this element, we pretty much knew exactly where Raynor was heading, and besides just rounding up some artifacts and "getting money" nothing happened until the end... and even that didn't make sense.
Zeratul's flashbacks would have been so much better if they did not butcher the Zerg into being slaves. That doesn't make sense with the lore at all. In fact, that is total bullshit.
With that said, the campaign's gameplay was simply amazing. The execution of the whole thing in the Hyperion was indeed innovative and I liked it a lot. But if we weren't Raynor and could actually go outside the realm and influence of Raynor with our decisions, I would have liked the story more. But the levels were amazing.
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A huge plot hole is that kerrigan keeps yelling at zeratul during the protoss campaign that were all going to die and its useless to continue. That we might as well get consumed by oblivion. It almost seems like she has resigned to her fate. (once again, disgustingly out of character). So how come shes still out and doing stuff when she knows that shes going to die anyway. Why does she need the xel naga artifacts if shes knows its useless.... what was her aim in obtaining them in the first place???
This was exactly my thoughts upon completion.
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Hm. I really got the idea that I was the only one on all of TL/multiplayer who cared about single player since SC1 lol :O
As soon as I finished the single player I went to TL and expected to find this thread up and running ^_^ That made no sense! Huge plot holes... and plot holes that weren't even satisfying/fun/redeeming! @()#*(# Sigh.
Some annoying story parts that I don't think were covered yet:
1. What happened after the UED BW terran aftermath? It seemed to just be the aftermath of SC1 really.
2. Too many rednecks in the terrans, only Tychus was cool, and I did not somehow realize how much of a redneck Jim Raynor was.
3. It seemed that all of the Toss, like, every last one died for good already?? :p This advanced race went out in a stupid way, pretty much an inarguably stupid, stupid way considering how different/better they faced oblivion when Tassadar was around. Expected more from this advanced race than something even Mel Gibson would have called Cliche.
4. One of the most impossibly incongruent parts was having Raynor slaughtering and desecrating the Protoss just for a little cash, before he realized there was a good reason to gather the artifacts later.
Hm, it was already mentioned that Kerrigan and Raynor used to be better characters. SIGH :p Did not want Raynor to give believe in each other cliche genera, Kerrigan to turn back to human and a dual human/zerg personality ("don't give up" part from human side at the end), did not want elaborate Mengsk story line or a son of Mengsk who seemed intentionally gay, did not want a prophecy, Tassadar... strangeness, a prophecy that does not make sense and probably won't later, omfg huge plot hole ending with Tychus and having no choice. -_- SC1 had a huge mystery waiting and apparently 10 years + was not enough time to think it out.
Missions were kind of fun, though not the protoss ones with the Hybrids. I liked the control between mission- talking to characters. Should have had more romance options with Dr. Hanson and Nova :o. Particularly liked the lab and the growing crystal and zerg specimen, with notes. I actually burst out laughing a bit when Tychus complained that the assembled artifact weapon might ruin the space-time continuum if they are reckless. ^.^
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Yeah, the lore is messed up right now. We can just hope that It'll be fixed eventually...
also @Servolisk - ('uncovered' parts)
1. UED was wiped out in the sector, but it still is active in earth region. That my friend should be understandable w/o googling anything, after you complete SC1 Missions.
2. Kind of agree.
3. That was a prophecy, not real events. Also what good could they do when they are being swarmed by bunch of hybrids. Also When Tassadar was around, they could run somewhere, now all their hope was lost since in that timeline Kerrigan has died, and only thing they could do is kill as many as possible before dying.
4. Those Protoss weren't the Aiur Protoss. Those 'sundrop' (That was the name, was it?) addicts are servants of Ulrezaj (or something. forgot his name). A dark templar who is responsible for wiping the preservers from earth. I'm not sure who leads them now tho, since Ulrezaj was trapped inside a Crystal. Could be that dark voice took control of them, seeing as it could corrupt Protoss in the first mission you encounter hybrids.
(You should read 'The Dark Templar saga' books. It's a small side-story that explains stuff in SC2)
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On August 03 2010 14:02 Logo wrote:
Also is it just me or is the whole Tychus arc kinda lame? They build it up and up over the whole game then just have a quick ending to it all in the last 45 seconds of the campaign.
No it´s the best part of the Story. You see it coming all the way from the intro but that is why it works. We are SUPPOSED to hate Raynor for killing Tychus. It would have worked even better if there wasn´t a Prophecy - it´s optional and thus plotirrelevant anyway. The point is that Tychus has no choice and if they handled the Prophecy a bit better Raynor would have a choice.
Raynor has to make some very hard desicions in the campaign and the importance is reinforced by having the Player make these choices two cases. That makes these choices "stronger" for the Player but unfortunately irrelevant to the Story - some Players could skip them.
The modular Missionstructure is the problem. Without it they could have made stuff like colonies declaring independendce or the freeing of political prisoners be important to Raynors Rebellion. That is why you are so suprised when Char pops up - the majority of the events are irrelevant to the Mainplot progression.
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On August 03 2010 16:33 zingmars wrote:
Yeah, the lore is messed up right now. We can just hope that It'll be fixed eventually...
also @Servolisk - ('uncovered' parts)
1. UED was wiped out in the sector, but it still is active in earth region. That my friend should be understandable w/o googling anything, after you complete SC1 Missions.
I know they were but I did not expect to see the Terran sector go completely back to Mengsk that way after the events of the zerg ending in BW. Let alone having Mengsk occupy himself with propaganda against Jim Raynor and not the battle to save humanity where we left off in BW. It makes sense after SC1's ending but not much after BW.
And regardless of who the protoss were, Aiur or not, they were just minding their own sacred artifact business and Raynor came and slaughtered them for cash like a big bastard, not really who he was before.
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And regardless of who the protoss were, Aiur or not, they were just minding their own sacred artifact business and Raynor came and slaughtered them for cash like a big bastard, not really who he was before.
Well that's the true nature of men. At least in Starcraft.
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I hope I havent been misleading,
I truly dont have any hate for the Blizzard writing staff, I have enormous respect for those guys and they have some serious talent.
Its not that I hate SC2's story, overall it was a very good story and should recieve high marks. We can nitpick it all day but in the end the actual story they came up with isn't bad.
Admittedly, it looks like they are going to follow in the vein of their older games where all the factions unite against a common foe. But we cant assume this to be the case considering that there are two more expansions coming. Especially because it has been stated that there are different structures for the three campaigns, and these structures may allow for a better presentation of the story than in WoL.
And im sure there were some cases where a really bad line came into the game and ruined a moment, which i suppose would go to the writing guys... But that wasn't exactly the worst part.
My beef here is with the presentation of the story, (multiple mission paths dont matter, lack of tension, ect. ect...)
I think some of it could be that you are no longer an entity and instead see the world through the eyes of Jim. This kind of makes it so you cant make objective comparisons about characters anymore, and so that your not really feeling that strong of a connection with the story.
Another big thing is that it just seemed devoid of relevance. I think i could pick out 5-8 of the missions and put them in linear order, and you could still get the same picture of events as if you played all 29. While these side quests can sometimes be interesting, and almost always have something to add to the backstory, they seem like filler to someone with an appetite for the story advancing really quickly in BW. (every mission would advance the plot in someway)
Its not that the story from those 5-8 missions was terrible, it just makes me feel swindled when i was expecting way more out of it. If we can expect the same result out of the next few expansions, wed have at most twenty fiveish missions of story to work with (in comparison with the 60 in sc+bw.
This may just be because they dont have enough material to fill up every mission with something that complex? It's certainly possible.
Personally, i enjoyed the story despite these gripes. It just seems to me that Blizzard made a mediocre plan, like basing the story off of gameplay instead of viseversa, and executed it perfectly. We cant yell at them for changing the formula up on us because its their game and their franchise, and if they continue to execute their formula perfectly like weve come to expect of them and as we have seen them do here, then i have complete faith in their ability to make great games, and in my ability to continue playing them.
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Well they sacrificed the story for the gameplay. I´d actually be fine with HAVING to play 26 Missions (you can finish the story with much less Missions total) if that meant that the subplots would have been part of the main plot.
For example helping the colonists so that they would declare independence, or freeing political prisoners with Tosh - would eventually weaken Mengsks position enough that Valerian would take over and THEN start the invasion on Char.
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I have no gripes with the story itself,it was alot better than i expected it could be after all this time.......Allot of the accusations and grounds against the story on these forums are baseless and just plain misunderstood..
A guess if you can fault it at anything is the way it told its story,since alot of people just didnt get it....otherwise everything makes scene,and proof is that on other forums people actually phrasing the story hard.....mostly since other forums are alot more casual,and theyve followed the story an and lore over the years alot more than participation on the multiplayer scene..
Like the guy above ,who think think the protoss from the original have already died,dude dont you get it,that was in the distant future after a long war with the hybrid...human are dead or assimilated,and this is all that left of the protoss's vast empire.....the last remnants of their civilization with theyre greatest heroes make a last stand agianst billions of zerg and hybrids,play it on brutal and youll see.....
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On August 04 2010 03:13 Unentschieden wrote:
Well they sacrificed the story for the gameplay. I´d actually be fine with HAVING to play 26 Missions (you can finish the story with much less Missions total) if that meant that the subplots would have been part of the main plot.
For example helping the colonists so that they would declare independence, or freeing political prisoners with Tosh - would eventually weaken Mengsks position enough that Valerian would take over and THEN start the invasion on Char.
Well that was the point of these subplost,freedom to take them whenever you want,yet they all tie into ,lead into......the ending...weakening Mengst or influencing Rainor to make the choice he did......
I think Blizz was brilliant they gave us choice,to play the campaign the way we want,yet have mission that are meaningful no mater in which order their taken....
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