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I think the major problem here is what im calling the Blizzard Writing Formula.
Flash back to WC3. All the races are fighting against one another or amongst themselves, everyone has a motive. its all very interesting and political.
Then what happens? The legion shows up. This external force thats a threat to everybody. Now everyone is running scared, they all have to deal with this external force and band together to fight it.
None of the races are evil! heavens no. Even the undead arent evil, as we can see from the forsaken. They were just being controlled by the legion.
Flash back even further to sc1. All the races are fighting against one another. Everyone has a motive. Most of the races are fighting amongst themselves as well. Its all INCREDIBLY interesting.
Enter SC2.
A new challenger aproaches! Hybridddsss! o noes...
Now we all have to band together to fight the + Show Spoiler + hybrids.
No ones evil, not even the overmind was evil. The overmind and its zerg were just being controlled by the hybrids...
Sound familiar???
Now admittedly, the expansion is always the best part, because that threat has been destroyed and now its time to fight eachother some more (TFT, BW)... but now since its all three storylines in three expansions, i dont see that kind of thing happening.
Another thing is that the protoss dont even care about the zerg invasion anymore which is a bit uncharacteristic considering sc1 and bw.
And lastly, Kerrigan. O god.... what have they done. As said before kerrigan wasnt all powerful, she had depth and thoughts that made her dangerous like Loki... deadly because shes cunning.
Why was kerrigan gone for that long, how come she never talked at all... give her actual dialog please!!!
A huge plot hole is that kerrigan keeps yelling at zeratul during the protoss campaign that were all going to die and its useless to continue. That we might as well get consumed by oblivion. It almost seems like she has resigned to her fate. (once again, disgustingly out of character). So how come shes still out and doing stuff when she knows that shes going to die anyway. Why does she need the xel naga artifacts if shes knows its useless.... what was her aim in obtaining them in the first place???
Furthermore, how come her years of evolution and biding her time left her weak enough to be killed by half a dominion fleet and a good tactician??? even with most her air forces or nydus forces gone. seems pretty retarded. The only thing i could come up with is that she overextended herself in the invasion of the terran worlds and didnt leave enough defense... (it says in a news report that the zerg are retreating back towards char right after you start the invasion).
But that still makes little sense, because Kerrigan is one of the most cunning characters in all of sc. she should get this stuff... Why didnt she get some allies like in BW? She always had somenoe influenced into fighting for her. I dont understand why she never did that here.
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i agree that it would be extremely dissappointing if they band together. I think that's what underlined SC1, that pure evilness of zerg.
I do think however that it's too soon to panic, it would be a nice twist if in HOTS kerrigan turns back to her evil ways after a while. Somehow. That's what i'm hoping for.
And you guys are completely misunderstanding the ending, the dominion fleet was defeated, Raynor picked up the survivors in Mission 1, sabotaged zerg in R2 and then they barely held out for half an hour with a help of super powerful artifact(which you wipe zerg waves with every 4 minutes).
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
i was pretty disappointed with how the story panned out. there were so many niggling things that griped on me as i played through the campaign. kerrigan's character was poorly written at best and introducing hybrids and 'the prophecy' just seemed like a huge swing to the fantasy genre in the warcraft mould. however i did expect the plot of SC2 to fall short of SC1 since it had so much to live up to so im not terribly distraught. lets hope they get back to form with the first expansion whenever that may come out.
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I didn't really get the "Zerg is evil" impression in SC/SC:BW, more like "The zerg are mindless drones bred for one purpose". Not their fault, so to speak.
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On August 01 2010 17:06 Telcontar wrote:
i was pretty disappointed with how the story panned out. there were so many niggling things that griped on me as i played through the campaign. kerrigan's character was poorly written at best and introducing hybrids and 'the prophecy' just seemed like a huge swing to the fantasy genre in the warcraft mould. however i did expect the plot of SC2 to fall short of SC1 since it had so much to live up to so im not terribly distraught. lets hope they get back to form with the first expansion whenever that may come out.
The Xel'Naga, hybrids, and what was upcoming (never explicitly in prophecy form but close enough) were all introduced earlier but it was always in the vein of "things to come," so really I think its more of a tonal shift than a plot invention.
As for Kerrigan, honestly, I'm kind of glad she went the way she did. Don't get me wrong I love BW Kerrigan for being generally awesome, but I'm not really sure how interesting a ruthless, conniving bitch could continue to be. Felt like that river had run a bit dry -- she kinda burned a few bridges too. In BW people were still naive enough to do things like, you know, trust her. Also, I think it makes sense for her to have evolved like she has. In SC1/BW she was human in the not too distant past. She's spent 4 years now alone in a Hive hearing what essentially amounts to voices in her head -- I expect some detachment and being generally aloof, and that's what we got. I'm also pretty confident that it was done explicitly to show contrast with how she'll be in HotS. I don't know what that is, but I'm confident we're going to see more emotion out of future Kerrigan so it shows an evolution in Kerrigan's character and really opens up the plot for the later expansion. If betrays-Duke-and-Fenix-Queen-Bitch-of-the-Universe Kerrigan had been turned human again I'm pretty sure Jimmy would've put a bullet in her head like he promised at the time. Something had to give.
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On August 01 2010 17:04 Sfydjklm wrote:
i agree that it would be extremely dissappointing if they band together. I think that's what underlined SC1, that pure evilness of zerg.
I do think however that it's too soon to panic, it would be a nice twist if in HOTS kerrigan turns back to her evil ways after a while. Somehow. That's what i'm hoping for.
The Zerg were never "pure evilness".
Changing Kerrigan back after a while would be stupid. We've already played this in BW and it would just make the whole WoL feel disappointing. They changed her back and they better roll with it.
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Yeah I have to agree with the above poster. The Zerg are not evil. The Zerg, are simply the zerg. They where designed to consume,spread, and control. That's not really evil, at least not in the sense of "MUWHAAHA TAKE OF THE WORLD!" kind of evil. It's just what the Zerg have been built to do and they just so happen to do it really, really well. That's really no evil then a disease or virus, it's not doing it because of some grand scheme of evil, it's just doing it because that's what it does.
I agree about the evil enemy being too close to the Legion. During the last toss mission yeah I was chuckling to myself saying "IS THAT YOU SARGERAS?!" But in all seriousness you can not say it hasn't been coming, I mean the whole Duran secret mission thing has been a point of knowledge for ages.
I don't quite understand all of this sudden Kerrigan hate, do you really expect people to keep falling for being betrayed every few missions? She's the queen of blades, after the 3rd time I really don't think anyone is falling for it. She doesn't need to be Loki when she has the entire swarm at her back, the only reason she played these power games in the first place was to get control of said swarm. It's not DUNE, you don't need plans within plans when you control untold legions of alien bugs created,bred and designed to kill anything in it's path.
In the end I agree with what was said on the DVD the ending wasn't about+ Show Spoiler + the war, the zerg, or even the coming end of the sector, it was about a boy and a girl and romantic happyish ending. I am a sap, I enjoyed it *shrug*
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There are some other similarities that warcraft and starcraft share. Kerrigan and Arthas being good and then becoming infested/corrupted and taking control of that which corrupted them. Jim Raynor and Jaina Proudmoure working together with Kerrigan and Arthas in the beginning of the story and eventually falling in love with them while working with them. They both then ally up with another race that they were fighting previously (protoss/orcs) to take down the zerg/undead.
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On August 01 2010 17:30 sashkata wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2010 17:04 Sfydjklm wrote:
i agree that it would be extremely dissappointing if they band together. I think that's what underlined SC1, that pure evilness of zerg.
I do think however that it's too soon to panic, it would be a nice twist if in HOTS kerrigan turns back to her evil ways after a while. Somehow. That's what i'm hoping for.
The Zerg were never "pure evilness". that depends on what you mean by pure evilness. For me a mindless swarm running over planets destroying everything is pretty evil.
Changing Kerrigan back after a while would be stupid. We've already played this in BW and it would just make the whole WoL feel disappointing. They changed her back and they better roll with it.
Well, i'm not saying get infested again but rather realize that queen of blades is who she is, infested or not.
She goes after mengsk, who is very much still in power according to the post-campaign screen and after shes done with him she realizes that she is empty apart from the all consuming desire to destroy 
I want my queen back, thas all  
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Her brain rotted in those four years, that's the only explanation I can think of to Blizzard's bad writing
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Blizzard seems to have a huge massive problem with just letting the races fight it out, even in WoW they dont actually really let Humans fight the Orcs, instead the Orcs (players) fight the different "evil" versions of Humans like Defias.
The Humans (players) fight the different "evil" versions of Orcs like Blackrock etc.
War3 started this trend and its just been going on since, introduce a super bad guy and afterall Demons are pretty bad right? So they couldnt use that in SC2 instead its these Hybrids who have cool voices (just like the Burning Legion Demons) and are as one dimensional as possible, they want to destroy everything and everyone.
Yawn
I dont understand why they cant just have the Protoss and Terran fight it out for some planet, ressource or whatever in a few missions, why is that such a issue? Present this war from both sides point of view so that nobody is good or evil.
Orcs were presented as "evil" in War and War2, the Zerg i never felt were presented as evil, the Overmind seemed to have a grand plan for Zerg, the character was a cool and calm leader that wanted to expand its influence in the galaxy these races populate.
The first problem was when they turned Orcs "good", which added nothing to the game and made them look weak. This is what i fear will happen to Zerg, they wil retcon some stuff, allow the now "good" Kerrigan to control some Zerg in the HotS campaign and suddenly we are controlling a goody good race against the ultimate evil Hybrids, its just boring.
The original game used the weakness of each race to paint them a gray color, the terrans were loud mouthed and greedy, easily manipulated by the promise of money and power. The Protoss weakness was that they were too stubborn and proud, and their political system was plagued with this that it hindered them too much in war. The Zerg problem was that technologically wise they couldnt (in lore) keep up with the other 2, they strenght was in invading planets and inhabiting them, not so much space combat.
Add old and new characters and there is so much potential to tell a good story
Furthermore, how come her years of evolution and biding her time left her weak enough to be killed by half a dominion fleet and a good tactician??
This made me scratch my head, in BW, Dominion with Mengsk, Protoss with Raynor and the UED couldnt take on the Zerg. And now, 4 years later, after Mengsk was revealed as a scumbag on national TV, Raynor and a few Dominion troops go to freaking Char of all places, defeat the Zerg by themselves and kill a good number of Zerg aswell.
I simply do not understand this, i and many others, thought the Zerg were in pole position after Brood War and 4 years is enough time to build up some forces up for all races.
I hope, for the love of god i hope, that the Protoss will want to kill Kerrigan now for all the bad things she has done to their people while the Terrans want to defend her, and we some sort of war between them over this, that would actually be interesting to see them in full scale war and Raynor and Zeratul caught in between them.
But who am i kidding that would actually be interesting instead they will band together and kill the Hybrids, the end, thanks for playing.
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Well most of the parallels to the Warcraft Universe are pretty obvious, even the Xel'naga and Titans show a lot of similarity. Both are world-creating, god like creatures from outer space, but what do you expect. The WoL storyline is written in a style Blizzard got accustomed to and, first of all, is GOOD at. The presentation of the story went as good as it did because the story itself made it possible. It has a very personal touch, focusing on Raynor and through him on the hope for Kerrigan as a human being. It becomes clear that Raynor differentiates between Kerrigan and the Queen of Blades.
"Which part? Where she was left behind, or where she killed eight billion people?"
The ending is one of the logical follow ups for this setup throughout the whole campaign.
The only thing I have to criticise is the unnecessary amount of cliffhangers in the WoL story. Nothing is answered, to the point where it's just too much to bear. They try really hard to make us all buy the next episodes, at least thats what I felt like while playing the campaign. My guess is that a lot of the reasons for the happenings in WoL will become clear in the later episodes.
For the story as a whole, I think we have to wait for HotS and the Zeratul RPG (ehehehe) to fully understand and be able to judge it.
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What I think alot of us are missing here is that we dont have the next 2 Campaigns ready for us to truly grasp the story. Imagine it is 1999 and they only released the Terran Campaign in SC1?
Now obviously the original SC had a very interesting and indepth story line, but how can you expect it to be as good? As someone has said, do you really expect a betrayal every few missions?
The storyline here was mainly focused on Raynor, not on the overall picture of the story. I think we should give BW a chance, though the OP does make great points regarding WC3.
I hope, for the love of god i hope, that the Protoss will want to kill Kerrigan now for all the bad things she has done to their people while the Terrans want to defend her, and we some sort of war between them over this, that would actually be interesting to see them in full scale war and Raynor and Zeratul caught in between them.
I think this would be very interesting AND they would kill the hybrids at the end. If they did this, maybe this would mean, Heart of the Swarm? Maybe the "Swarm" isnt really the zerg, but rather the Protoss and Terran combined, since they are acting "Swarm" like and just wanting to kill Kerrigen and not really thinking it through.
Like I said, it is really hard to speculate what will be coming up, but I for one am glad that the Terran Campaign got wrapped up. In case you guys havent played Half-Life 2, the game would end with a cliff hanger, then you would have to wait. I think HL2 fans are currently waiting for the 3rd part, aka the end. Would you want to wait a couple of years on a cliff hanger, or just be happy that we got to know the end of a story? Personally, I go with the 2nd.
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On August 01 2010 18:10 Raevin wrote:
The first problem was when they turned Orcs "good", which added nothing to the game and made them look weak.
Yeah, cause making them more nuanced and adding to their story was a bad move? It would be more interesting for the storyline if the orcs were the model 1A Bad Guys™ and never changed?
The entire super-awesome Grom Hellscream storyline in Warcraft 3 would never have happened if it was not for that... I still think the Mannoroth cutscene is Blizzards finest to date.
I agree to a lot of what you said otherwise, though, and Blizzards writing, especially across games, has become very samey. While I don't think they sync the writing of the different storylines to mix it up, having killed Arthas I don't think they wanted to have the killing of Kerrigan as a plot point, and instead chose something else (what, we don't know yet, she's hardly redeemed just for turning 90% human).
I, too, would have preferred if the whole xel'naga business remained a lot more toned down. Ancient half-god creators work a lot better in a fantasy universe - note how in WoW you never meet the Titans, you meet their creations? That would have been a better use for the xel'naga, or hell, not their creations but just their ruins. The whole artifact thing in WoL was just such a big ass deus ex machina I wanted to throw up. There's enough interesting conflict in the Starcraft universe to not have to bring in the DARK VOICE (old gods in WoW anyone?) and his HYBRIDS that WE ALL HAVE TO UNITE to stop or some shit...
Blizzard sometimes makes interesting writing decisions, but together, they tend to end up a bit shitty, especially when they retcon or use Story Magic™ to change old, well established facts.
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On August 01 2010 19:18 omfghi2u2 wrote:
Now obviously the original SC had a very interesting and indepth story line, but how can you expect it to be as good? As someone has said, do you really expect a betrayal every few missions?
Of course you should expect SC2 to have just as good as a storyline as SC1.. I'm playing through the original campaign again, and while the missions aren't super fuckin fun to play like it is in SC2, nearly every aspect of the story telling blows SC2 out of the water. SC2's story is basically Raynor collects artifacts and then BAM he's on Char defeating a Kerrigan w/ down syndrome. Blizzard should seriously hire a new (better) writer (preferably the one who actually wrote the original story) and salvage what's left of the story..
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^ditto my thoughts.
I think the storyline is the weakest part of SC2. I still can't believe how generic and predictable it is, especially compared to the multi-factional fighting and complexity of sc1. The Zeratul campaign was a nice touch but the main Terran campaign was more simplistic than a 1950 Disney film. For people saying wait for the expansions... yes, we can hope it improves a lot, but you cannot say you can't judge Harry Potter book 1 if you haven't read all 7 books.
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Retconning lore is probably the worst thing any company can do. I think that's why so many of us are disappointed at the WoL's story; it retcons pretty much everything with respect to the Zerg.
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Retconning would be changing past events to fit the current plot. That didn´t happen, the events of Broodwar remain unchanged. They did however supply a bit of background to why Kerrigan was infested. That didn´t make sense back in SC and BW.
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They should hire/learn from the people who wrote Mass Effect 1 and 2. They know how to make a fairly generic plot (save the universe from x super bad guy) very interesting.
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Id like to nip this perception that this game is the equivilant of the terran campaign in SC in the bud.
Thats just plain wrong. If you look at it that way, you are ignoring all of BW...
Unless you are assuming there will be an expansion trilogy to the trilogy of expansion packs were getting, then i dont see why you would see it that way.
In reality, this should be two SC campaigns= one SC2 campaign.
Furthermore, while the game admittedly focused on a few more characters to make up for a lack of some... events....
It really didnt seem like the characters in sc2 were all that memorable. I think Tychus
+ Show Spoiler +who dies in the end anyway
Raynor delivers the same old lines over and over again. I dont understand how they made the one honest man become Woody from Toy Story... (note the pull string on his back)
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Kerrigan really behaves extremely weird in WoL. Either horrible storywriting or there is something to it that we don't get yet. I'm hoping for the latter.
Raynor doesn't live up to his promises either; as DocM said so well, he in fact wants to save Kerrigan despite having sworn to kill her back in BW. He (the Raynor in BW) is not the kind of guy who promises to kill someone and then just forgets about it. WoL didn't make it clear how he was able to change his mind like that.
Where is Duran? He had a lot of influence in BW, even though he hid it well. Now the Hybrids show up, Zeratul digs up ancient Xel'Naga stuff and he doesn't make a single appearance... Has he been dropped out of the plot entirely? Is he actually pulling some strings from behind the scenes?
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I wrote a thread about a similar issue on the b-net forums :p
Heres some copy pasta :o.
So I just finished the campaign. It was pretty bad. I don't mean the actual gameplay. The level design was absolutely mind blowing. I can't praise blizzard level designers enough for it. How they managed to make 29 missions for a single race remain fresh was pretty amazing. Much Props to you guys <3. I mean the narrative. It was really bad. Of course, Blizzard is hardly known for their original, dramatic stories, but generally their past narratives, while derivative, still enhanced the overall game play experience. SC2 fails in this department, The Wings of liberty storyline was nigh-unbearable. And I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that. Its a pretty common criticism amongst fans and critics alike. Alec and Quinn, respectable reviewers from RPS (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com) note: Show nested quote +...Raynor is a terrible, terrible character and I’m amazed they hung so much of the game’s presentation and marketing around him.
Quinns: Raynor’s fine on paper, as are the rest of his crew. The haggard rebel, the criminal, the nerdy scientist, the by-the-book spit-and-polish captain and his antagonism with the criminal. But in execution it’s boring Liquid'Jinro, of TL.net notes Show nested quote +Good missions, but the way it was resolved just felt like I was watching an 80's pre-show recap of events And more from Starcraft fans on the internet. Show nested quote +The missions and units and everything except how the story was presented was good. The news reporter thing was stupid and I only clicked it b/c I click everything anyway. The game felt a little too much like being an errand boy rather than progressing the story sometimes. Most of the game really felt like WoW quests rather than an awesome story. I played most of it on Brutal, a lot on hard, and on the last mission I got 66% on brutal and died so I was like Ill just play on casual so I can get to the last mission. Oh wait that was the last one. Yeh so really good except too many quests that didn't really matter. ANd talking to the people on the ship felt like a chore rather than fun 90% of the time. Show nested quote +I find the cut scenes to be agonizing to sit through. Glad to hear that at least some people share my opinion. They are well rendered, but the writing and delivery are pure pain to me. I agree with people who view it as Wing Commander with a bit more polish. Of course, it certainly isn't unilateral consent. But it certainly represents a very legitimate criticism. And while Blizzard games have been criticized for everything ranging from inaccessible learning curves, lack of learning curves, derivative designs, inability to emulate predecessors, a host of other issues, incidentally, unbearably terrible narratives were not among them. So what exactly makes WoL's story so unbearable? Is it, as Veronica of another thread on the B-net forums voicing a similar concern notes? That: Show nested quote +
After 12 years and countless millions earned from WoW Blizzard's writing has actually degraded
? Well, in all likelihood, probably not. The issue lies in blizzards particular style of writing (and design in general), and how it simply doesn't translate into a character driven narrative. Blizzards always done things by "the rule of cool". Apparently, that why every single set of shoulders in WoW have so many long metal spikes that they should be classified as lightning hazards and why everybody emits purple light from their eyes. Even the horses. This is surprisingly bearable, even "cool", in a game like Wc3 or SC1. Its works great in those games because there are so many characters, and each have only a few lines. In order to make them memorable and distinguishable, they HAVE to be caricatures and stereotypes who just spout one liners all day. Which for the most part, they were. Raynor and Kerrigan and Zeratul were fantastic characters, but only work when presented as story elements, not 3 dimensional characters. Because as far as there presentations goes, they weren't. Instead, they worked because they implied 3 dimensional characters lurking behind their roles as story elements. Objectively, the writing in SC2 isn't any worse then it was in Sc1. But Sc2 doesn't go for a similar presentation as Sc1 or Wc3. It attempts to be a character driven narration, while the writing is still a relic from when characters were simply story elements. Yet at the same time there is some awareness of this, but it simply dilutes the factor so not only are the characters not, or ever were, complex characters, but they're not even cool anymore. The end result is probably is a narrative that is sadly, the worst one blizzard ever wrote. So all i got to say Blizz, for your upcoming expansion pack... plz fix. Lets kick this writing department into overdrive mmk? and fix b-net 2.0 while your at it :p.
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Blizzard has already used the "everyone works together to stop a greater threat" plot before: remember Brood War? How everyone fought against the UED despite it not making any fucking sense for the Terrans and the Protoss to side with the ZERG (of all people) against other humans. Seriously, Brood War's plot makes no sense at all, yet people worship the ground it walks on because it's filled with PLOT TWISTS AND BACKSTABBING, oh my!
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On August 02 2010 01:41 spinesheath wrote:
Kerrigan really behaves extremely weird in WoL. Either horrible storywriting or there is something to it that we don't get yet. I'm hoping for the latter.
Raynor doesn't live up to his promises either; as DocM said so well, he in fact wants to save Kerrigan despite having sworn to kill her back in BW. He (the Raynor in BW) is not the kind of guy who promises to kill someone and then just forgets about it. WoL didn't make it clear how he was able to change his mind like that.
Where is Duran? He had a lot of influence in BW, even though he hid it well. Now the Hybrids show up, Zeratul digs up ancient Xel'Naga stuff and he doesn't make a single appearance... Has he been dropped out of the plot entirely? Is he actually pulling some strings from behind the scenes?
Duran theory:
+ Show Spoiler +Oh Duran is there...Dr. Narud, his name is Duran backwards, and they have the same style facial hair. Coincidence? I think not
Plus, he's working on research that involves the ancient races and artifacts. Continuing his work that was revealed in BW, but under a new guise if you ask me.
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On August 02 2010 00:57 Unentschieden wrote:
Retconning would be changing past events to fit the current plot. That didn´t happen, the events of Broodwar remain unchanged. They did however supply a bit of background to why Kerrigan was infested. That didn´t make sense back in SC and BW.
The infestation in BW made sense given the background story of the zerg, which seems heavily retconned. The whole Xel'Naga plot in SC2 makes them seem completely different from how they were introduced in the background story of SC and BW - there you were given the impression they were like mad scientists obsessed with evolving "the perfect creation". Zerg being the last experiment seeing as they destroyed the Xel'Naga that created them. But still retaining their obsession with perfecting themselves led to the assimilation of uniqe and powerful species into the swarm - Kerrigan being a high level psionic agent therefore would be an obvious choice for infestation.
The overmind being a slave doesn't really make sense either, as it turned on its creators and set upon its path of assimilation and destruction. Presenting the zerg as unwilling tools of destruction like the Orcs in WC was truly disappointing, it would be like suggesting the Borg in Star Trek were controlled by someone with a remote. -_-
The hybrids presented by Duran in BW seemed more likely to set up for a forced unification of the zerg and protoss by remaining Xel'Naga determined to finish their experiments in perfection rather than heralding in some mysterious force hell bent on destroying the whole galaxy for no reason whatsoever. There wouldn't even be any reason for them to do so lore-wise, seeing as they pretty much ruled the galaxy alone and could've destroyed it thousands of years earlier. 
The whole plot in SC2 seemed recycled from WC3, and was a cheap way to disguise they really didn't have any innovative story to tell. I have no idea how something as cliché like that could be the best they could come up with 12 years after the original game.
On August 02 2010 01:48 Radios wrote:
Blizzard has already used the "everyone works together to stop a greater threat" plot before: remember Brood War? How everyone fought against the UED despite it not making any fucking sense for the Terrans and the Protoss to side with the ZERG (of all people) against other humans. Seriously, Brood War's plot makes no sense at all, yet people worship the ground it walks on because it's filled with PLOT TWISTS AND BACKSTABBING, oh my!
It made more sense. Kerrigan losing control of the swarm, Mengsk losing control of his empire, and the protoss being faced with the combined strength of the UED and their controlled swarm. For the three parties involved it would make more sense to beat the new kid on the block and maintaining the balance of terror, rather than risking losing it all to the UED.
It all semed more realistic, since there were purely military and political goals involved, rather than "the fate of the galaxy!!",
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I wanted to start a new topic and proclaim that Blizzard needed to fire their art crew. This tread seems relevant enough to that crusade. So, ... Blizzard needs to fire like everyone.
The story, as has been pointed out, was quite terrible. The Hybrids look like Night Elf Demons or something; the Protoss look more like elves than the Eldar of Warhammer; and Raynor got hair?!
But that is all the aesthetic. In the story, doing missions was quite fun. What killed my buzz was when Mengsk's Blood Elf son showed up and Raynor had a personality shift. Was Raynor drinking throughout the whole game because he couldn't kill Zerg on Char? And now hes got that chance and is a reformed man?
And General Mega-Man? Seriously!
Starcraft 2 was good when there was no important story. As soon as its gets to important story, it feels uncomfortable.
The things is, Blizzard needs to go through the entire SC2 team, find out who likes elves and then terminate their role on SC2 development. That there is a cutscene that shows off a bunch of dead marines coupled with the sad music means the developers have no idea what is going on. Between 'elite' marines and 'elite' Mengsks and 'elite' Horner... I just have to wonder if these guys even played Broodwar. Elf=Elite, and that shit is boring.
Broodwar introduced many characters, the likes of which like none have returned. There is no general duke, we get some European stereotype of an American general. Tosh (the Jamaican, seriously?) should have been Samir Duran-- of which Raynor wouldn't know what was up but BW vets would. And how did Kerrigan go from assassin of the Zerg to ultralisk+life? Her reveal in this game was piss poor, as her execution.
Yeah yeah, the missions are well designed and fun, but the story sucks. Makes me not want to purchase HOTS. I guess if they add Reavers into the map editor, I might be so inclined
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What if HotS and LotV run in parallel to what happened in WoL. Like you would be controlling the Zerg attacking the Terran and probably Protoss as well. I don't know if it could hold to anything but it was just an idea I've been toying with.
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On August 02 2010 01:08 Ineluctable wrote:
They should hire/learn from the people who wrote Mass Effect 1 and 2. They know how to make a fairly generic plot (save the universe from x super bad guy) very interesting.
I actually wrote a comment in gametrailer's sc2 review about how sc2 was basically a really bad mass effect 2. I got slammed with thumbs down I also played ME2 very recently (after beating ME1 the week prior). Was an amazing game. Of course, not all the brancing missions were interesting. But the player was certainly rewarded when they went on missions that uncover more of the plot, something SC2 failed to do. The reward in SC2 came (for me) when raynor boards valerian's ship. But that was hours into the game.
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On August 02 2010 02:34 RetroDeatRow wrote:I wanted to start a new topic and proclaim that Blizzard needed to fire their art crew. This tread seems relevant enough to that crusade. So, ... Blizzard needs to fire like everyone. The story, as has been pointed out, was quite terrible. The Hybrids look like Night Elf Demons or something; the Protoss look more like elves than the Eldar of Warhammer; and Raynor got hair?! But that is all the aesthetic. In the story, doing missions was quite fun. What killed my buzz was when Mengsk's Blood Elf son showed up and Raynor had a personality shift. Was Raynor drinking throughout the whole game because he couldn't kill Zerg on Char? And now hes got that chance and is a reformed man? And General Mega-Man? Seriously! Starcraft 2 was good when there was no important story. As soon as its gets to important story, it feels uncomfortable. The things is, Blizzard needs to go through the entire SC2 team, find out who likes elves and then terminate their role on SC2 development. That there is a cutscene that shows off a bunch of dead marines coupled with the sad music means the developers have no idea what is going on. Between 'elite' marines and 'elite' Mengsks and 'elite' Horner... I just have to wonder if these guys even played Broodwar. Elf=Elite, and that shit is boring. Broodwar introduced many characters, the likes of which like none have returned. There is no general duke, we get some European stereotype of an American general. Tosh (the Jamaican, seriously?) should have been Samir Duran-- of which Raynor wouldn't know what was up but BW vets would. And how did Kerrigan go from assassin of the Zerg to ultralisk+life? Her reveal in this game was piss poor, as her execution. Yeah yeah, the missions are well designed and fun, but the story sucks. Makes me not want to purchase HOTS. I guess if they add Reavers into the map editor, I might be so inclined
Your post doesn't make any sense. I can understand being disappointed with the story, but here you are rambling on incoherently about elves and shit. How do elves come into this at all and how do those mentioned characters resemble elves in any way? How is Warfield "General Megaman" when cybernetics are all too common amongst the Terrans? General Duke is dead, Samir Duran DOES make an appearance (But I won't reveal it to you; that would ruin the fun), and Kerrigan was a tank in SC1 , too (500 life, regeneration, 50 damage attack, psi storm, etc).
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On August 02 2010 03:05 SushiBoat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 01:08 Ineluctable wrote:
They should hire/learn from the people who wrote Mass Effect 1 and 2. They know how to make a fairly generic plot (save the universe from x super bad guy) very interesting. I actually wrote a comment in gametrailer's sc2 review about how sc2 was basically a really bad mass effect 2. I got slammed with thumbs down I also played ME2 very recently (after beating ME1 the week prior). Was an amazing game. Of course, not all the brancing missions were interesting. But the player was certainly rewarded when they went on missions that uncover more of the plot, something SC2 failed to do. The reward in SC2 came (for me) when raynor boards valerian's ship. But that was hours into the game.
Really? Because I thought that scene was among the worst in the game.
First off, there's an entire fleet. How can the Hyperion actually get close enough to board the flagship without getting fired upon? From the perspective of the crew, that move is tantamount to suicide. Secondly, Raynor/Tychus could have gotten killed fighting those guards and then Valerian would have been fucked. I know, they have plot armor, but it's just dumb. Finally, if Raynor shot Valerian in the back, his entire gambit would have been for naught. The entire scene felt entirely contrived. For someone as smart as Valerian, he should have messaged Raynor as soon as the fleet warped in and told him what was going down instead of relying on a thousand bad/random decisions.
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Good job whining and manipulating the truth. Kerrigan was a human and therefore is vulnerable to getting - tired, or depressed. (She was dark and cynical in sc1...)
This is another one of those threads where all of idiots are out, making sc2-bashing posts and pretending they're intelligent. Ehh I've lost faith in TL again.
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On August 02 2010 01:57 sushiman wrote:
The infestation in BW made sense given the background story of the zerg, which seems heavily retconned.
No, originally the overmind attacked the Terrans to assimilate a Psi-capable-being into the swarm so he could use that new breed to take on the Protoss. Thats why Psi-emitters attracted Zerg back then and why Kerrigan was abducted.
The problem was that Kerrigan had NO role in the Zerg invasion of Aiur. It´s like they halfway realised that she´d make a great Villian for a addon, so they keept her "safe".
The "retcon" is that the Overmind had a good reason to save her, she was supposed to replace him from the start. Since she is still somewhat Terran it´s possible to remove the Zergmindcontrol from her which was the point all along according to Wol.
I hope they also give Kerrigan a good reason why she didn´t at least take care of Mengsk at the end of Broodwar. Obviously they couldn´t have one race actually "win" for the sake of sequels but she kinda stopped "because she could".
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thinking Zerg is evil, is like thinking a predator is evil when it eats another animal 
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in SC1 there were quite a few reasons why the storyline seemed so much better
a) it covered new ground. lets face the facts, stuff is way more exciting when its new rather then, "oh wait i saw this before in XYZ"
b) the races definitely seemed to be more unique, instead of just banding together in 3 seconds they had to solve their own problems first, i.e. the terrans are greedy bastards and they are always infighting to gain a monetary advantage instead of actually caring about the zerg. the protoss also seem to care more about rank and tradition and 1/2 of the protoss missions practically end up in pvp
also there always seemed to be some ambiguity of who the bad guys were because at the end of the day all SC1 was just 3 different races trying to control the universe in their own way, true the zerg seem more evil, but they have no choice in the matter, the humans definitely seem to choose evil on a more everyday basis but cmon they're us in the future you dont really want them to be the bad guys...
SCBW definitely changed that whole dynamic with the Xel'naga actually playing some sort role albeit through artifacts and temples, but definitely changing the playing field but still there was KERRIGAN she was awesomeness incarnate, playing everybody in the solar system until she had full control of the swarm }:-)
Disclaimer: the rest of this post is highly opinionated enter at your own risk!
Enter SCII OMG Burning Legion AHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
*rehash of WC3 * nobody bad or evil only tragic lame characters...lets all band together and destroy what makes us different! sounds like the mutiplayer? no no this is the single player!
honestly they should have a guy that when you click on his portrait enough he says "this IS WC3 in space!"
btw since this is a SC2 thread i wonder if anyone actually remembers which in-game hero said the already famous line "this is NOT WC2 in space"
but enough with the SC2 bashing, honestly at this point in time was anyone expecting a game like SCI? even the most naive person could see that this is a different era for Blizzard, whether its b/c of Activision-Blizzard, or WoW or Dustin Browder...ad absurdium
things change over time, for all those who were blessed to play SC in its heyday, it was awsome!
john lennon died and so did mozart, but time marches on
...for whom the bell tolls
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On August 02 2010 03:39 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 03:05 SushiBoat wrote:On August 02 2010 01:08 Ineluctable wrote:
They should hire/learn from the people who wrote Mass Effect 1 and 2. They know how to make a fairly generic plot (save the universe from x super bad guy) very interesting. I actually wrote a comment in gametrailer's sc2 review about how sc2 was basically a really bad mass effect 2. I got slammed with thumbs down I also played ME2 very recently (after beating ME1 the week prior). Was an amazing game. Of course, not all the brancing missions were interesting. But the player was certainly rewarded when they went on missions that uncover more of the plot, something SC2 failed to do. The reward in SC2 came (for me) when raynor boards valerian's ship. But that was hours into the game. Really? Because I thought that scene was among the worst in the game. First off, there's an entire fleet. How can the Hyperion actually get close enough to board the flagship without getting fired upon? From the perspective of the crew, that move is tantamount to suicide. Secondly, Raynor/Tychus could have gotten killed fighting those guards and then Valerian would have been fucked. I know, they have plot armor, but it's just dumb. Finally, if Raynor shot Valerian in the back, his entire gambit would have been for naught. The entire scene felt entirely contrived. For someone as smart as Valerian, he should have messaged Raynor as soon as the fleet warped in and told him what was going down instead of relying on a thousand bad/random decisions.
I agree that the believability of the whole scene is questionable. But they introduced valerian (finally) and started to move the plot along. Before valerian is introduced, what is actually happening? Collect artifacts for mobius. Find random resources for Tosh. Help horner expose the stupidly portrayed dominion. Unfortunately, shortly after valerian's introduction, you're on char working to stop kerrigan and the game is over.
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10387 Posts
On August 02 2010 03:48 scrdmnttr wrote:
Good job whining and manipulating the truth. Kerrigan was a human and therefore is vulnerable to getting - tired, or depressed. (She was dark and cynical in sc1...)
This is another one of those threads where all of idiots are out, making sc2-bashing posts and pretending they're intelligent. Ehh I've lost faith in TL again.
Gosh you're a genius!! I guess when the invasion half a fleet hit Char, she just went "FUCK IT" and waited for them to come kill her! Blizzard's writers just fucked up all the characters that were from SC1 and BW, like the guy who wrote the story for SC2 didn't even really read the story from the original.
Also that Fire and Fury scene, where Raynor gives that "inspirational speech".. made me want to fuckin barf. Blizzard games' dialogue actually used to be very good..
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All I can say is
Starcraft 1: Rated M for Mature
Starcraft 2: Rated T for Teen.
Have fun making money, Blizzard.
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On August 02 2010 01:56 Thegilaboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 01:41 spinesheath wrote:
Kerrigan really behaves extremely weird in WoL. Either horrible storywriting or there is something to it that we don't get yet. I'm hoping for the latter.
Raynor doesn't live up to his promises either; as DocM said so well, he in fact wants to save Kerrigan despite having sworn to kill her back in BW. He (the Raynor in BW) is not the kind of guy who promises to kill someone and then just forgets about it. WoL didn't make it clear how he was able to change his mind like that.
Where is Duran? He had a lot of influence in BW, even though he hid it well. Now the Hybrids show up, Zeratul digs up ancient Xel'Naga stuff and he doesn't make a single appearance... Has he been dropped out of the plot entirely? Is he actually pulling some strings from behind the scenes? Duran theory: + Show Spoiler +Oh Duran is there...Dr. Narud, his name is Duran backwards, and they have the same style facial hair. Coincidence? I think not
Plus, he's working on research that involves the ancient races and artifacts. Continuing his work that was revealed in BW, but under a new guise if you ask me.
Great post, I was wondering what happened to Duran and this makes lots of sense.
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I wonder what is going to be Kerri's role in HotS, maybe she won't be main Zerg leader at all? It's less likely as she is supposed to be a key in defeating Xel'Naga but something unexpected has to happen there to make it interesting and make people buy it.
It would be interesting to see Zerg leaders change multiple times in the expansion campaign.
On August 02 2010 06:52 Adjudicator wrote:
All I can say is
Starcraft 1: Rated M for Mature
Starcraft 2: Rated T for Teen.
Have fun making money, Blizzard.
From wikipedia
Rating(s)
ELSPA: 15+
ESRB: T (originally M)
OFLC: (AUS) M
OFLC: (NZ) R16+
PEGI: 16+
Rating is basically the same. I think devs simply gave up about challenging original SC (before BW)story. Even old unit costs (except for Vulture only?) are changed to make new units more appealing :/
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I didn't mind the fact that it was corny that much but for me the problem was that the story pretty much didn't advance at all. We already knew about the hybrids. We already knew about pretty much everything in the campaign in fact. The only real advancement is the last mission and the Zeratul stuff...
+ Show Spoiler +Other things I hate :
-No Duran (I like some of the theories here though)
-Following the Dominion. The game ends with Raynor surrounded by the Dominion pretty much. I mean, seriously, what's stopping them from just killing him there and ending the rebellion.
-Tychus. Everything about him, from his character to his story. It wasn't just corny, it was bad.
The one thing I have hope for:
Mengsk knowing that he has to kill Kerrigan and having facilities making Hybrids. Good chance that he works for Duran or whoever Duran works for.
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On August 02 2010 02:34 RetroDeatRow wrote:I wanted to start a new topic and proclaim that Blizzard needed to fire their art crew. This tread seems relevant enough to that crusade. So, ... Blizzard needs to fire like everyone. The story, as has been pointed out, was quite terrible. The Hybrids look like Night Elf Demons or something; the Protoss look more like elves than the Eldar of Warhammer; and Raynor got hair?! But that is all the aesthetic. In the story, doing missions was quite fun. What killed my buzz was when Mengsk's Blood Elf son showed up and Raynor had a personality shift. Was Raynor drinking throughout the whole game because he couldn't kill Zerg on Char? And now hes got that chance and is a reformed man? And General Mega-Man? Seriously! Starcraft 2 was good when there was no important story. As soon as its gets to important story, it feels uncomfortable. The things is, Blizzard needs to go through the entire SC2 team, find out who likes elves and then terminate their role on SC2 development. That there is a cutscene that shows off a bunch of dead marines coupled with the sad music means the developers have no idea what is going on. Between 'elite' marines and 'elite' Mengsks and 'elite' Horner... I just have to wonder if these guys even played Broodwar. Elf=Elite, and that shit is boring. Broodwar introduced many characters, the likes of which like none have returned. There is no general duke, we get some European stereotype of an American general. Tosh (the Jamaican, seriously?) should have been Samir Duran-- of which Raynor wouldn't know what was up but BW vets would. And how did Kerrigan go from assassin of the Zerg to ultralisk+life? Her reveal in this game was piss poor, as her execution. Yeah yeah, the missions are well designed and fun, but the story sucks. Makes me not want to purchase HOTS. I guess if they add Reavers into the map editor, I might be so inclined
I have problems with the SC2 story as well, but this post is just dumb. Not once in the entire game did I ever see something that was elf-ish in anyway. In fact you seem to have a completely irrational hatred of anything elven. I mean I'm not too big on elves either, but I didn't see any trace of them in this game, and you'd have to be really stretching it if you found them here.
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click the tag if you want to read this friggin essay, otherwise tldr version: i think some of the complaints about the story are unfair but i agree there's some plot holes too and we'll have to wait and see if this was an appropriate set-up for the rest of the story.
+ Show Spoiler +i think it's a big mistake to say stuff like 'the zerg were evil, now they're good'. the strength of blizzard's writing is that they don't deal in easy black and white terms like that. the characters and factions are complicated. terrans aren't 'good' - they're human. there's the dominion and before that the confederacy. the zerg weren't ever 'evil', they're just zerg - a huge threat to other lifeforms, but totally feral, that'd be like calling zombies evil. zombies are brainless. the infection is extremely dangerous but you don't assign intention to it. even with kerrigan and the overmind, both were part of the zerg biological imperative to absorb other lifeforms. plus kerrigan has that human side to her, but it's the bitter vengeful parts of being human.
or like in warcraft - the forsaken aren't 'good' necessarily. they have terrible personalities and they don't like anyone else. but they've escaped the control of both the legion and arthas. they can't take on all the races of azeroth by themselves, so they make alliances, because that's the reasonable thing to do. it'd be suicide otherwise. they do this with other horde races too. trolls are still nasty creatures with surly attitudes, they worship nasty entities and they perform sacrifices. it's just that a particular tribe is trying to conform to a larger society out of respect and gratitude. same with the blood elves - they sit on the fence, force themselves to remain somewhat civilized but they still indulge in pretty evil behaviors. actually that's why i like the horde better - it has these complicated races that don't neatly fall into 'good' or 'evil'. lots of orcs still have brutal, rage-filled mentalities, but under the direction of thrall they've tried to make their society more civilized, and they continue to do so because it benefits them in the long run - the legion and the old gods are just way more dangerous so the horde and the alliance refrain from all out war, but they stay separate because they disagree and therefore they continue to make alliances with other races to keep each other in check.
or take people like illidan, or arthas. they're terrible beings now, but they're also sympathetic characters, they had tragic flaws and it led to their downfalls. and even at their lowest and most evil, they're still both at odds with the legion. and even the legion itself has its roots somewhere, supposedly sargaras was corrupted by someone, i think maybe even the dreadlords. this is what i like about blizzard's rts writing - allegiances and races are complicated, much like in the real world. there's not good and evil - just good and evil actions, and degrees of good and evil. obviously the legion is evil. but even that has its roots. in real life, the nazis were obviously evil. hitler was obviously evil. that doesn't mean germany is evil. things are complicated. in warcraft, the forsaken didn't just decide to be evil one day. they were infected and then controlled by necromancers. sylvanas took that control away and gave it back to some of the undead, creating the forsaken. they're still nasy bitter people, but they have free will, so they do reasonable things like make alliances because it's the smart thing to do. in starcraft, the zerg didn't just up and decide to be evil cos they felt like it. they're basically an infection, and an infection is evolved to spread and get stronger. you don't say a parasite is evil, it's just bad to get infected.
now kerrigan became a nasty person, but she's just wrapped up in the infection like all the other creatures in the swarm. she ACTS evil, but those 'evil' qualities are more than likely just the most well adapted to leading the swarm and infecting more organisms. also, she's extremely powerful and extremely smart - smart enough to realize that the dark voice/xelnaga/whatever are far more powerful than her. don't think it's out of character at all for her to decide everyone is doomed. seems perfectly in line with her personality. doesn't mean she won't fight back to her dying breath. also you have to take into account the possibility that she was playing mind games with zeratul. saying that 'we're all doomed', basically, in that situation, seemed designed to rattle zeratul, whether she meant it or not (i'm thinking she meant it but i digress.)
i do think there's some plot holes - i'm not sure i like that they gave kerrigan her humanity back. seems too easy. i'll give blizzard the benefit of the doubt and see how it unfolds in the next expansion, but for now i have mixed feelings. it does seem kinda iffy that raynor wanted to bring her back so badly after saying he'd kill her. but then, he's had 4 years to sit there, in an alcoholic rut, beating himself up with guilt for what happened to her. then someone comes along and says this artifact can bring her back (a little too convenient but i'm gonna suspend belief here for a moment) so obviously he's going to take the opportunity. my biggest complaint is that it seems too easy. the big thing that's different from before is the artifact, so i'm guessing that's what made the whole invasion of char doable.
i also agree that not a lot happened in the terran part of the campaign until char. it seems like it's just setting us up for the next expansion, cos there's no sign of what happened after mengsk was ousted. the artifacts part was fine cos that all leads up to the kerrigan storyline and makes perfect sense, mengsk had everything to do with that - tychus was under orders to get the artifact using raynor's help and kill kerrigan if he got the chance. makes sense to me. the campaign seems like it has a ton of foreshadowing without it coming to fruition. like i've already said, we'll have to wait and see if it was an appropriate set-up for the rest of the story.
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On August 02 2010 07:25 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 06:52 Adjudicator wrote:
All I can say is
Starcraft 1: Rated M for Mature
Starcraft 2: Rated T for Teen.
Have fun making money, Blizzard. From wikipediaRating(s) ELSPA: 15+ ESRB: T (originally M)OFLC: (AUS) M OFLC: (NZ) R16+ PEGI: 16+ Rating is basically the same. I think devs simply gave up about challenging original SC (before BW)story. Even old unit costs (except for Vulture only?) are changed to make new units more appealing :/
The point being that SC1 was marketed for adults. SC2 is being marketed for teens. Clearly the kind of thought that went into the original is not the kind of thought that has gone into SC2 - neither would an M-rated material be developed in the way a T-rated material would be. Not to mention Blizzard is a much different company now than it was 12 years ago. SC2 has obviously been marketed to appeal to teens, a much wider audience to make money off of. Hence the teeny-bopper, feel-good story where they can't even show a single death on screen to preserve their T rating (and thus spurring countless pointless arguments about how Tychus is still alive when it clearly says in the message screen that he's dead after you beat the campaign).
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On August 02 2010 08:02 Adjudicator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 07:25 beetlelisk wrote:On August 02 2010 06:52 Adjudicator wrote:
All I can say is
Starcraft 1: Rated M for Mature
Starcraft 2: Rated T for Teen.
Have fun making money, Blizzard. From wikipediaRating(s) ELSPA: 15+ ESRB: T (originally M)OFLC: (AUS) M OFLC: (NZ) R16+ PEGI: 16+ Rating is basically the same. I think devs simply gave up about challenging original SC (before BW)story. Even old unit costs (except for Vulture only?) are changed to make new units more appealing :/ The point being that SC1 was marketed for adults. SC2 is being marketed for teens. Clearly the kind of thought that went into the original is not the kind of thought that has gone into SC2 - neither would an M-rated material be developed in the way a T-rated material would be. Not to mention Blizzard is a much different company now than it was 12 years ago. SC2 has obviously been marketed to appeal to teens, a much wider audience to make money off of. Hence the teeny-bopper, feel-good story where they can't even show a single death on screen to preserve their T rating (and thus spurring countless pointless arguments about how Tychus is still alive when it clearly says in the message screen that he's dead after you beat the campaign).
I find it hard to believe that ANY Blizzard game would ever be marketed to adults rather than teens. SC1 even has a teen rating today, and only got a mature rating because the standards were more conservative back then. Talk to any long-time Blizzard fan, and I can guarantee you that the vast majority of them got into Blizzard games when they were kids or teens. Even most Blizzard interviews have employees like Samwise and Metzen, both who have been with Blizzard since the beginning, admit that they are huge comic book geeks and inject lots of it into their work.
Sorry, but you'll have a real hard time convincing me that Blizzard has ever been a sophisticated adults company. It's a company made by geeks, for geeks.
The main problem is just that the major lore writers are losing their touch. Blizzard claims that they have tons of writers who check the lore and even a lore encyclopedia, but it's obvious that they don't care for lore integrity as much as they claim. Chris Metzen in particular seems to be growing more and more forgetful going by the MASSIVE retcons in Warcraft, and the rampant copy-pasting plot that's going on in SC2. Hybrids are basically just the Burning Legion with a different coat of paint, and the Zerg are rapidly becoming the next Orcs. Copy/paste has always been Metzen's main flaw as a writer (coughWarhammercough), but it's getting really bad now.
Whatever the cause may be, Blizzard needs to really step back and change how they approach writing, because it has undeniably gone downhill over the years. It's just frustrating when the creators themselves make mistakes that fans would have caught and shot down right from the get-go. It's happens to a lot of stories, but it's even more upsetting that it's happening to Blizzard because they used to always been on the level with this sort of thing. I dunno, maybe hire more writers, or even have Chris Metzen step down as a writer. If it makes for a better story, I'm for it, because games CAN be fun and have excellent writing at the same time.
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Daneeka, i didn't mean to imply that the zerg were evil. In no way shape or form. I agree that all of the races are just different with different motivations and goals. It is definitely more gray than black or white. When i said zerg i meant overmind. The overmind is what i was getting at. He seemed evil or at least greedy enough to me, wanting to control the zerg, expand its influence, kill terran planets, invade auir, ect. ect. But now he isnt evil just mind controlled. Thats not to say that there weren't other bad/worse characters in the game (im looking at you mengst and duran)...
Another plot whole i found was Tychus. So mengst sprung tychus out of prison in order to assassinate Kerrigan.
Mengst assumes that
1. Tychus will find Raynor
2. Raynor will lead Tychus to Kerrigan eventually
3. Raynor will pull a fleet to invade char out of his ass so he can get to Kerrigan (its plausible that he used Prince Valerian to help Raynor, or something to that effect, but Mengst seemed sincerely surprised when Valerian told him about the invasion, he even seemed really pissed off... So i doubt it. And even if we accept this to be true, Mengst assumes that Raynor will Cooperate with Valerian despite his instincts)
4. Neither Raynor nor Tychus will die inbetween now and then, despite Mengst actively trying to kill them
5. The Xel Naga Artifacts will weaken Kerrigan enough to get her killable by a lowly marine like Tychus
6. Kerrigan wont find any of the Artifacts and Raynor will succesfully assemble them all for use.
7. Tychus will accompany Raynor to find Kerrigan after she gets uninfested
8. Tychus wont explain his situation to Raynor, his best friend...
It all seems kind of silly when you think about it.
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My biggest problem with the campaign is that you can advance the story without finishing all the missions and the effect that has on the story. Char felt to me like the game assumes you didn't finish the Protoss missions and the Mengsk storyline. People like Horner were arguing with Raynor about saving Kerrigan even though Raynor shared Zeratul's vision with them. The Arcturus and Valerian dialogue seemed to assume the revelations from the Media Blitz mission never happened.
And the hybrids aren't really the Burning Legion. It seems actually closer to the Old Gods in World of Warcraft. The "Dark Voice", from reading some of the background story on it wikia sites sounds like a Warcraft Old God. The background story came from novels and comics, I believe.
And Mass Effect has to be one of the most overrated series ever. SC2's story is a copy of War3's story but Mass Effect and Dragon Age are copies of KoTOR's story, too. Every single Bioware game after KoTOR is all about finding the Star Maps on an open world. The gameplay is generic 3ps as well, there's barely any RPG elements at all.
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On August 02 2010 01:23 DocM wrote:Id like to nip this perception that this game is the equivilant of the terran campaign in SC in the bud. Thats just plain wrong. If you look at it that way, you are ignoring all of BW... Unless you are assuming there will be an expansion trilogy to the trilogy of expansion packs were getting, then i dont see why you would see it that way. In reality, this should be two SC campaigns= one SC2 campaign. Furthermore, while the game admittedly focused on a few more characters to make up for a lack of some... events.... It really didnt seem like the characters in sc2 were all that memorable. I think Tychus + Show Spoiler +who dies in the end anyway , swan, and tosh were the only characters that had any depth at all. Seriously, even good ol jimmy has lost direction and depth of character. He contradicts himself from sc1 all the time (killing kerrigan lol, although technically hes not allowed to because of zeratuls warning; but this argument doesnt stand up because really Jimmy seems like he really wants to save Kerrigan. He isnt doing it because of some prophecy, just because he wants his girlfriend back). Raynor delivers the same old lines over and over again. I dont understand how they made the one honest man become Woody from Toy Story... (note the pull string on his back)
Disagree,disagree,disagree,disagree
I think Rainers character really grows and fluctuates throwout the story and since sc1.....Hes a different man then,believes in freedom,fights for justice and longs for a normal life,preferably with kerrigan....
Alot of that is gone in sc2,hes bitter from all the betrayals,despises Karrigan for all the deaths she caused,yet he still want that life...with her.So hes very conflicted about what he should do ...put a bullet in her head of try to redeem her,sometimes for hes own selfish reason.
Hes no longer and idealist,even in hes fight with Mengsk,he seem more practical a lot of the time...going for money and results,rather than going for it the morally right way....Teaming up with Tosh and so on..
In come Tychas and Matt to serve as the moraly-opposed factors in his life....
He fight with those issues for the whole story,until in the end finally he once again becomes the man he was in his youth.....
Honesly sc2 had a few very well developed characters...,and probably was all were going to get in terms of human soul searching and depth....
HOTS and LOTV are going to move to other things....
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Hahaha the elf post cracked me up!
I though the storyline was really short as well, we really didn't need 25 missions for that. But the missions themselves were diverse, so well done. I didn't feel bored at all, it's getting the rest of the achievements that makes me feel bored. And the way the difficulty levels/campaign progress/upgrades are a Huge mess.
Now how are they going to make a Zerg Campaign in this way? Surely they're not going to show cutscenes of Zergs talking to each other and some cerebrates? Or will they show Terran cutscenes but you still play Zerg?
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On August 02 2010 08:36 DocM wrote:
Daneeka, i didn't mean to imply that the zerg were evil. In no way shape or form. I agree that all of the races are just different with different motivations and goals. It is definitely more gray than black or white. When i said zerg i meant overmind. The overmind is what i was getting at. He seemed evil or at least greedy enough to me, wanting to control the zerg, expand its influence, kill terran planets, invade auir, ect. ect. But now he isnt evil just mind controlled. Thats not to say that there weren't other bad/worse characters in the game (im looking at you mengst and duran)...
Another plot whole i found was Tychus. So mengst sprung tychus out of prison in order to assassinate Kerrigan.
Mengst assumes that
1. Tychus will find Raynor
2. Raynor will lead Tychus to Kerrigan eventually
3. Raynor will pull a fleet to invade char out of his ass so he can get to Kerrigan (its plausible that he used Prince Valerian to help Raynor, or something to that effect, but Mengst seemed sincerely surprised when Valerian told him about the invasion, he even seemed really pissed off... So i doubt it. And even if we accept this to be true, Mengst assumes that Raynor will Cooperate with Valerian despite his instincts)
4. Neither Raynor nor Tychus will die inbetween now and then, despite Mengst actively trying to kill them
5. The Xel Naga Artifacts will weaken Kerrigan enough to get her killable by a lowly marine like Tychus
6. Kerrigan wont find any of the Artifacts and Raynor will succesfully assemble them all for use.
7. Tychus will accompany Raynor to find Kerrigan after she gets uninfested
8. Tychus wont explain his situation to Raynor, his best friend...
It all seems kind of silly when you think about it.
Youre over-assuming Mengst had some grand master plan to takeout Kerrigan.... when in fact he was simply using one of his assets,a convict who otherwise would serve no real purpose,yet this way is an Ace up Mengst sleeves,doesnt mean he had no other cards ,hes just being practical and using all the assets,a man in his position would have.....
Embedding and Agent in Raynors crew is just plain smart,i doubt Mengst knew how things were going to go,but when the time came he had an ace concealed against his sons own ambitions and Rainors rebellion.....
Still if things had gone differently he might have used him to sabotage Raynor,Its just smart thinking witch got he to where he was as Emperor, however Mengst does hate Kerrigan a lot more than Rainer,hes just small time in his eyes,where she is a real threat to hiss whole empire....
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imo what made the blizz stories good were the characters, not the overarching plot (in general), and that hasn't changed.
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On August 02 2010 07:41 Spawkuring wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 02:34 RetroDeatRow wrote:I wanted to start a new topic and proclaim that Blizzard needed to fire their art crew. This tread seems relevant enough to that crusade. So, ... Blizzard needs to fire like everyone. The story, as has been pointed out, was quite terrible. The Hybrids look like Night Elf Demons or something; the Protoss look more like elves than the Eldar of Warhammer; and Raynor got hair?! But that is all the aesthetic. In the story, doing missions was quite fun. What killed my buzz was when Mengsk's Blood Elf son showed up and Raynor had a personality shift. Was Raynor drinking throughout the whole game because he couldn't kill Zerg on Char? And now hes got that chance and is a reformed man? And General Mega-Man? Seriously! Starcraft 2 was good when there was no important story. As soon as its gets to important story, it feels uncomfortable. The things is, Blizzard needs to go through the entire SC2 team, find out who likes elves and then terminate their role on SC2 development. That there is a cutscene that shows off a bunch of dead marines coupled with the sad music means the developers have no idea what is going on. Between 'elite' marines and 'elite' Mengsks and 'elite' Horner... I just have to wonder if these guys even played Broodwar. Elf=Elite, and that shit is boring. Broodwar introduced many characters, the likes of which like none have returned. There is no general duke, we get some European stereotype of an American general. Tosh (the Jamaican, seriously?) should have been Samir Duran-- of which Raynor wouldn't know what was up but BW vets would. And how did Kerrigan go from assassin of the Zerg to ultralisk+life? Her reveal in this game was piss poor, as her execution. Yeah yeah, the missions are well designed and fun, but the story sucks. Makes me not want to purchase HOTS. I guess if they add Reavers into the map editor, I might be so inclined I have problems with the SC2 story as well, but this post is just dumb. Not once in the entire game did I ever see something that was elf-ish in anyway. In fact you seem to have a completely irrational hatred of anything elven. I mean I'm not too big on elves either, but I didn't see any trace of them in this game, and you'd have to be really stretching it if you found them here.
If you can't see how pathetically elf-like the Protoss have become, you're blind.
imo what made the blizz stories good were the characters, not the overarching plot (in general), and that hasn't changed.
Except that there aren't any good characters in WoL...
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On August 02 2010 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 07:41 Spawkuring wrote:On August 02 2010 02:34 RetroDeatRow wrote:I wanted to start a new topic and proclaim that Blizzard needed to fire their art crew. This tread seems relevant enough to that crusade. So, ... Blizzard needs to fire like everyone. The story, as has been pointed out, was quite terrible. The Hybrids look like Night Elf Demons or something; the Protoss look more like elves than the Eldar of Warhammer; and Raynor got hair?! But that is all the aesthetic. In the story, doing missions was quite fun. What killed my buzz was when Mengsk's Blood Elf son showed up and Raynor had a personality shift. Was Raynor drinking throughout the whole game because he couldn't kill Zerg on Char? And now hes got that chance and is a reformed man? And General Mega-Man? Seriously! Starcraft 2 was good when there was no important story. As soon as its gets to important story, it feels uncomfortable. The things is, Blizzard needs to go through the entire SC2 team, find out who likes elves and then terminate their role on SC2 development. That there is a cutscene that shows off a bunch of dead marines coupled with the sad music means the developers have no idea what is going on. Between 'elite' marines and 'elite' Mengsks and 'elite' Horner... I just have to wonder if these guys even played Broodwar. Elf=Elite, and that shit is boring. Broodwar introduced many characters, the likes of which like none have returned. There is no general duke, we get some European stereotype of an American general. Tosh (the Jamaican, seriously?) should have been Samir Duran-- of which Raynor wouldn't know what was up but BW vets would. And how did Kerrigan go from assassin of the Zerg to ultralisk+life? Her reveal in this game was piss poor, as her execution. Yeah yeah, the missions are well designed and fun, but the story sucks. Makes me not want to purchase HOTS. I guess if they add Reavers into the map editor, I might be so inclined I have problems with the SC2 story as well, but this post is just dumb. Not once in the entire game did I ever see something that was elf-ish in anyway. In fact you seem to have a completely irrational hatred of anything elven. I mean I'm not too big on elves either, but I didn't see any trace of them in this game, and you'd have to be really stretching it if you found them here. If you can't see how pathetically elf-like the Protoss have become, you're blind.
His complaints were regarding everything looking like elves, not acting like them, i.e. an art-style complaint. Everything acts far less badass in this game, but that's mostly due to poor writing and less enthusiastic voice acting. I don't see what that has to do with elves.
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On August 02 2010 09:37 Spawkuring wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 02 2010 07:41 Spawkuring wrote:On August 02 2010 02:34 RetroDeatRow wrote:I wanted to start a new topic and proclaim that Blizzard needed to fire their art crew. This tread seems relevant enough to that crusade. So, ... Blizzard needs to fire like everyone. The story, as has been pointed out, was quite terrible. The Hybrids look like Night Elf Demons or something; the Protoss look more like elves than the Eldar of Warhammer; and Raynor got hair?! But that is all the aesthetic. In the story, doing missions was quite fun. What killed my buzz was when Mengsk's Blood Elf son showed up and Raynor had a personality shift. Was Raynor drinking throughout the whole game because he couldn't kill Zerg on Char? And now hes got that chance and is a reformed man? And General Mega-Man? Seriously! Starcraft 2 was good when there was no important story. As soon as its gets to important story, it feels uncomfortable. The things is, Blizzard needs to go through the entire SC2 team, find out who likes elves and then terminate their role on SC2 development. That there is a cutscene that shows off a bunch of dead marines coupled with the sad music means the developers have no idea what is going on. Between 'elite' marines and 'elite' Mengsks and 'elite' Horner... I just have to wonder if these guys even played Broodwar. Elf=Elite, and that shit is boring. Broodwar introduced many characters, the likes of which like none have returned. There is no general duke, we get some European stereotype of an American general. Tosh (the Jamaican, seriously?) should have been Samir Duran-- of which Raynor wouldn't know what was up but BW vets would. And how did Kerrigan go from assassin of the Zerg to ultralisk+life? Her reveal in this game was piss poor, as her execution. Yeah yeah, the missions are well designed and fun, but the story sucks. Makes me not want to purchase HOTS. I guess if they add Reavers into the map editor, I might be so inclined I have problems with the SC2 story as well, but this post is just dumb. Not once in the entire game did I ever see something that was elf-ish in anyway. In fact you seem to have a completely irrational hatred of anything elven. I mean I'm not too big on elves either, but I didn't see any trace of them in this game, and you'd have to be really stretching it if you found them here. If you can't see how pathetically elf-like the Protoss have become, you're blind. His complaints were regarding everything looking like elves, not acting like them, i.e. an art-style complaint. Everything acts far less badass in this game, but that's mostly due to poor writing and less enthusiastic voice acting. I don't see what that has to do with elves.
Protoss art has become more and more elf-like - just look at the concept art. There are a couple pictures that look like they were ripped right out of the Burning Crusade art book and slapped into the WoL one. Also, the Hybrids have much the same look - flowy, angular features that look entirely too much like Elves.
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On August 02 2010 09:40 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 09:37 Spawkuring wrote:On August 02 2010 09:33 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 02 2010 07:41 Spawkuring wrote:On August 02 2010 02:34 RetroDeatRow wrote:I wanted to start a new topic and proclaim that Blizzard needed to fire their art crew. This tread seems relevant enough to that crusade. So, ... Blizzard needs to fire like everyone. The story, as has been pointed out, was quite terrible. The Hybrids look like Night Elf Demons or something; the Protoss look more like elves than the Eldar of Warhammer; and Raynor got hair?! But that is all the aesthetic. In the story, doing missions was quite fun. What killed my buzz was when Mengsk's Blood Elf son showed up and Raynor had a personality shift. Was Raynor drinking throughout the whole game because he couldn't kill Zerg on Char? And now hes got that chance and is a reformed man? And General Mega-Man? Seriously! Starcraft 2 was good when there was no important story. As soon as its gets to important story, it feels uncomfortable. The things is, Blizzard needs to go through the entire SC2 team, find out who likes elves and then terminate their role on SC2 development. That there is a cutscene that shows off a bunch of dead marines coupled with the sad music means the developers have no idea what is going on. Between 'elite' marines and 'elite' Mengsks and 'elite' Horner... I just have to wonder if these guys even played Broodwar. Elf=Elite, and that shit is boring. Broodwar introduced many characters, the likes of which like none have returned. There is no general duke, we get some European stereotype of an American general. Tosh (the Jamaican, seriously?) should have been Samir Duran-- of which Raynor wouldn't know what was up but BW vets would. And how did Kerrigan go from assassin of the Zerg to ultralisk+life? Her reveal in this game was piss poor, as her execution. Yeah yeah, the missions are well designed and fun, but the story sucks. Makes me not want to purchase HOTS. I guess if they add Reavers into the map editor, I might be so inclined I have problems with the SC2 story as well, but this post is just dumb. Not once in the entire game did I ever see something that was elf-ish in anyway. In fact you seem to have a completely irrational hatred of anything elven. I mean I'm not too big on elves either, but I didn't see any trace of them in this game, and you'd have to be really stretching it if you found them here. If you can't see how pathetically elf-like the Protoss have become, you're blind. His complaints were regarding everything looking like elves, not acting like them, i.e. an art-style complaint. Everything acts far less badass in this game, but that's mostly due to poor writing and less enthusiastic voice acting. I don't see what that has to do with elves. Protoss art has become more and more elf-like - just look at the concept art. There are a couple pictures that look like they were ripped right out of the Burning Crusade art book and slapped into the WoL one. Also, the Hybrids have much the same look - flowy, angular features that look entirely too much like Elves.
You're gonna have to post examples. I've never seen anything that looks more "elf-like" more than they already do. Protoss have always been slightly elven in nature because they're literally based off the elf archetype: advanced, arrogant, elegant, usually few in number. The art's obviously different in some ways, but that can be applied to all Blizzard art since it's changed over the years. But again, I still can't see much elf influence unless you have some kind of irrational hatred for them.
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Honestly SC2 could have had a passable plot if it managed to not fail on every aspect of storytelling.
For instance if the story was actually epic, I could have dealt with 1 dimensional characters. Or if the plot twists weren't telegraphed from the starting cinematic. If any one aspect of the plot was actually believable and well written, it could have been passable.
Because all of the missions were approachable from any direction at any time before char, you're left with a jumbled mess of episodic levels. There's no build up and thus no tension, and finally no history for the characters to build upon and explore. I'd point to the mission system as the fundamental flaw of the entire game, forcing the writing staff to approach each new situation as if nothing else in the game had transpired. They honestly should have just had a mostly linear game with some key divergent levels. It basically feels like playing a ton of side missions until you hit char.
Finally, how on earth the writing team decided on the ending is beyond me. That ending would have been so much better had they.... + Show Spoiler + not told Raynor that the artifact will turn Kerrigan back, simply stating that it kills all Zerg or all lower level zerg, forcing him to come to a decision to use the artifact against his personal wishes; finding Kerrigan still alive would have then been a surprise for both the player and for Raynor, and made for a much more interesting ending interaction between all the characters. This would have conflicted with the Zeratul storyline, but I'm sure some creative writing could have worked around this.
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This is how I feel about the Zerg in general:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JGf4E.png)
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I can see it now... Diablo 3: team up with Diablo and his brothers in order to defeat a new enemy.
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On August 02 2010 13:03 chair wrote:Honestly SC2 could have had a passable plot if it managed to not fail on every aspect of storytelling. For instance if the story was actually epic, I could have dealt with 1 dimensional characters. Or if the plot twists weren't telegraphed from the starting cinematic. If any one aspect of the plot was actually believable and well written, it could have been passable. Because all of the missions were approachable from any direction at any time before char, you're left with a jumbled mess of episodic levels. There's no build up and thus no tension, and finally no history for the characters to build upon and explore. I'd point to the mission system as the fundamental flaw of the entire game, forcing the writing staff to approach each new situation as if nothing else in the game had transpired. They honestly should have just had a mostly linear game with some key divergent levels. It basically feels like playing a ton of side missions until you hit char. Finally, how on earth the writing team decided on the ending is beyond me. That ending would have been so much better had they.... + Show Spoiler + not told Raynor that the artifact will turn Kerrigan back, simply stating that it kills all Zerg or all lower level zerg, forcing him to come to a decision to use the artifact against his personal wishes; finding Kerrigan still alive would have then been a surprise for both the player and for Raynor, and made for a much more interesting ending interaction between all the characters. This would have conflicted with the Zeratul storyline, but I'm sure some creative writing could have worked around this.
You are right in some aspects BUT what little proper story there is still applies. If Valerian hadn´t told Raynor that the Artifact would turn Kerrigan back Raynor wouldn´t have cooperated. There was massive tension on the Hyperion when Raynor cooperated with his and his crews enemys to go after Kerrigan. The Prophecy is optional, the Finale WASN´T about saving the universe it was Raynor placing Kerrigan above his rebellion against Mengsk and his friend Tychus (Raynor knew that Tychus had no choice).
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On August 02 2010 14:53 Sadistx wrote:This is how I feel about the Zerg in general:
AMEN BROTHER.
Seriously. WTF. I loved sc1 lore. So much. As someone said the missions made sense. There were constant political or sensible motivations for them. Backstabbing and dishonour were as rife as honour and glory. It wasn't clear who was with who but all were fighting for their own goals. Some were for more ... benevolent outcomes and others for pure personal gain.
This whole terran mission... has been quests from wow (best description I have heard). Do x for y amount of resources. It takes most of the missions to be completed before any actual story part comes into it. Zeratul missions were cool.
Raynor used to be tough and logical. DON'T BOARD A BATTLECRUISER WHILE THERE IS A WHOLE FLEET POINTED AT YOU WITHOUT TRYING TO HAIL THEM ON THE COMM OR SHOOTING OR SOMETHING (sorry that scene pissed me off with its stupidity no end).
They had so many possibilities they could have pursued with the hybrids and the xelnaga.
SC1 lore: xelnaga make/evolve the protoss and then zerg. Overmind rises up against makers and forces their retreat almost wiping them out in the process (http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_storyline this might not be "official site material" but is pretty much the accepted story based off of blizzards accepted lore).
Thats right the overmind nearly WIPES OUT THE XEL' NAGA. According to zeratul missions the overmind could not defy the mission set out by his creators.... yet somehow he had the ability to nearly wipe them out?????
So to all those saying there was no retcon... go read your lore. They have massively retconned lore. Overmind was still controlled by xel'naga... he just couldn't be stopped by that control from killing them. The stupidity of that contradiction astounds me.
Does blizzard check the story with anyone who has read the original lore? EVER? They did a massive blunder in wow. Now it looks like they are setting up another amazing one in sc. I pray they save it with the next two expansions but if history is anything to go by I am praying to a gaming god that doesn't exist.
More sc1 lore: The overmind absorbed the xel'naga and thats how it learnt of the protoss. It then needed a way to combat the protoss psyonic abilities. So it absorbed terrans and eventually kerrigan in an effort to make its own psyonic warriors equal or greater than the protoss it wished to absorb. (why absorb if it had better warriors.... imagine if humans could be better than protoss with zerg infestation... imagine how much better infested protoss could be).
There was no "I must defeat the masters so I can save the universe" hint from the overmind at any point. NOT ONE. There was no... 'kerrigan will be my salvation" and she certainly was not informed by her maker that she had any other purpose other than to serve.
Making up story that wasn't there isn't needed. They had set it up with the xel'naga survivors obviously trying to perfect their experiment in order to control the universe. Not destroy it. Why have some cartoon super villian character come in and do an evil laugh. Duran was perfect. Manipulative working in the shadows to help his masters create an army to defeat all known life and achieve perfection in form.
Why not build on that. Why tear it down to some cheap evil big bad guy. Glowing red eyes... really???? REALLY????
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My real problem was so many open ends after the cinematic.
1. What happened to zeratul after he gave you the crystal? Died? Went to Char? Went into hiding again? Nothing is said about that.
2. Where the fuck are the real protoss this entire campaign? You know, not the fanatics that protect xel naga artifacts and some stupid gas in the jungle, but the real protoss fleets? You only meet them once in the colonist mission (Selendis) and you have to fight them again <_<
3. What happens to the Mengsks (both of them) and Dominion? Dominion apparently lost half of their fleet assaulting Char, and Emperor Mengsk was exposed destroying Tarsonis. I mean that's pretty damn significant.
4. What's going to be done with the artifact? Who's controlling the zerg now?
5. What are the canon endings for Tosh and Dr. Handsome? If they both die, that fucking sucks cuz that means their missions were nothing but filler. That means the campaign is even smaller than it already feels.
Now we have to wait 2 more years for any of these to be answered <_<
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To the above poster mentioning the Overmind was still controlled by the Xel'Naga.
Go read up on the Dark Voice of the Void. I believe he is the Dark Voice character in SC2 who is someone the Xel'Naga actually fought against a long time ago and locked away. He may be the one that was actually controlling them. It's hard to say since in The Utter Darkness mission he said "I created you", which is something the Xel'Naga did.. but it doesn't fit with the lead up to this with the manga etc. Can't believe no one has brought him up at all.
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Using a prophecy in a sci-fi setting is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.
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I think that the scene where he boards dominion BC was that way because Raynor probably though: 'hey I'm just against dominion fleet and no way I'm going to win.....but wait if I manage to board Mengsk's flagship he may be there and I can kill him' which is his goal since tarsonis.....to get rid of him.
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On August 02 2010 07:32 Kurr wrote:
I didn't mind the fact that it was corny that much but for me the problem was that the story pretty much didn't advance at all. We already knew about the hybrids. We already knew about pretty much everything in the campaign in fact. The only real advancement is the last mission and the Zeratul stuff...
I think this is one thing we cannot blame them for.
It has been 12 years. Yes, we the die-hard fans know all this stuff - but there are a lot of new customers who do not know about the SC universe. Hell, a lot of my (rl)friends forgot the storyline of SC.
They have to explain this.
On August 02 2010 13:03 chair wrote:Finally, how on earth the writing team decided on the ending is beyond me. That ending would have been so much better had they.... + Show Spoiler + not told Raynor that the artifact will turn Kerrigan back, simply stating that it kills all Zerg or all lower level zerg, forcing him to come to a decision to use the artifact against his personal wishes; finding Kerrigan still alive would have then been a surprise for both the player and for Raynor, and made for a much more interesting ending interaction between all the characters. This would have conflicted with the Zeratul storyline, but I'm sure some creative writing could have worked around this.
Wow - that would've been a surprising ending indeed ^^
To implement it in the Zeratul storyline: just dont clarify "who" needs to survive. "We shouldnt have killed her" in the those missions instead of "We shouldnt have killed Kerrigan". Hinting at Kerrigan and the player is thinking like "But the prophecy is maybe talking about her, you cannot use the device you fools." And after using the device "Ok - who did the prophecy relate to now?"
That the Overmind created Kerrigan could've been mentioned, just "to fight the hybrids" - just don't mention that she is the vital part of the whole plan.
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my biggest disappointment was how cheesy the story was at times.
I can remember reading an article way back in the days, when blizzard talked about creating a completely new single player experience with an "epic" (such an overused word) storyline.
And dont get me wrong I think it was a solid singleplayer experience but there were really only a few "WOW" (not world of warcraft...) moments to me.
I was expecting a real well written script supported with beautiful cgi cut scenes.
Instead we got a predictable and recycled storyline and ingame cutscenes.
well to sum it up I was just expecting WAY MORE ....
12 years of development and 100million of production cost (mainly multiplayer, I understand) but still..
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Am I the only one who was pumped to see Nova from SC:Ghost. (she is a badass).
But in regards to the story, I think the first campaign was just filler, and with 2 more expansions coming out, thats all it really could have been. Nothing game changing was ever going to happen. Aside from kerrigan being turned back or killed.
+ Show Spoiler +Also whats with Kerrigans tentacle hair, even after shes turned back? whats up with that?
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I had always assumed that poor writing and cheesey storytelling tactics were the symptoms of trying to fit a ton of story into relatively short series of levels that made up SC1 and WC1-3.
I now see how wrong I was
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Im interested to see what comes next. Even though kerrigan got transformed back to a human she still has her weird zerg dreads. They bear a remarkable similarity to the nerve clusters that the protoss have growing out of their heads and that allow them to be part of the Khala and communincate psychically. So I'm betting that kerrigan can still control the zerg. When she had all the zerg DNA in here I think she was still under the same orders as the overmind, she had some free will to take small actions, but she couldn't make her own large scale plans. I think that is why we saw her charicter as being passive about the xel'naga returning and consuming the universe, because she had to be. And now that she doesnt have the zerg influence on her any more she can fight back with the zerg so instead of it being zerg + hybred vs the terran+toss its now just the hybrids vs the zerg+terran+toss and thats a fight where they have a chance
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On August 02 2010 19:02 Sadistx wrote:
5. What are the canon endings for Tosh and Dr. Handsome? If they both die, that fucking sucks cuz that means their missions were nothing but filler. That means the campaign is even smaller than it already feels.
Now we have to wait 2 more years for any of these to be answered <_<
After noticing Heaven's Fall late into campaign, playing it and watching cutscene after it I thought
+ Show Spoiler +wtf she was supposed to find the way to fight infestation and now she's infested herself?
until I realized that mission was what I was supposed to do after siding with Selendis.
So I bet Doc is alive and owning zerg virus.
If Kerrigan will have to control Zerg anyways maybe Doc's medicine will be something helding her back from becoming Queen of the blades again while she's redeveloping her ways to control the Zerg?
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Kerrigan planned to lose. It's all part of her master plan to win all over again in HotS. She's going to pretend to be a good guy, and then stab everyone in the back, again.
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On August 02 2010 23:24 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 07:32 Kurr wrote:
I didn't mind the fact that it was corny that much but for me the problem was that the story pretty much didn't advance at all. We already knew about the hybrids. We already knew about pretty much everything in the campaign in fact. The only real advancement is the last mission and the Zeratul stuff...
I think this is one thing we cannot blame them for. It has been 12 years. Yes, we the die-hard fans know all this stuff - but there are a lot of new customers who do not know about the SC universe. Hell, a lot of my (rl)friends forgot the storyline of SC. They have to explain this.
...No they don't. It isn't a sequel's job to explain everything before it because people are too lazy to watch the previous movie, read the previous book, play the previous game, etc.... There's a reason that it's a SEQUEL, and that's to advance the story.
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I think you guys don't realize the complexity of the story. Terrans are basically fractured now because of the media blitz by Raynor; Mengsk has decent control of the core worlds but the fringe worlds broke up with them after not being helped when the zerg attacked. We also have no idea what the protoss is up to. And isn't BW basically everyone coming together (UED, Dominion, Protoss) to try and defeat the zerg?
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On August 03 2010 04:45 hoopaholik91 wrote:
I think you guys don't realize the complexity of the story. Terrans are basically fractured now because of the media blitz by Raynor; Mengsk has decent control of the core worlds but the fringe worlds broke up with them after not being helped when the zerg attacked. We also have no idea what the protoss is up to. And isn't BW basically everyone coming together (UED, Dominion, Protoss) to try and defeat the zerg?
yea, but they fail
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Spoilering to make the page shorter.
+ Show Spoiler +
Let's see what could have been done with the story. Starting out, we have the following factions:
1. Raynor, who is trying to overthrow Mensk.
2. Mengsk, who is trying to kill Raynor.
3. The Protoss, reformed from their Conclave ways and not doing much of anything.
4. The Terrazine cultists, killing anyone who tries to touch their precious gas/artifacts/ancient Xel'naga tombs.
5. Kerrigan's swarm, lurking in the wings.
6. Zeratul, doing his own thing.
Since this is the Terran campaign, the logical first step is to focus on Raynor's struggle against Mengsk. Center the first large batch of missions entirely around Raynor versus Mengsk, with some Protoss fights thrown in over various resources. Very standard, very natural. About a quarter to a third of the way through, Kerrigan shows up. There is now tension: should Raynor continue trying to overthrow Mengsk's reign, risking destruction by the Zerg, or focus on killing the Zerg, and let Mengsk remain in power? The missions for the middle batch of the campaign are focused on Raynor surviving the Zerg and continuing the fight against Mengsk, with Protoss fights, of course. The final segment is initiated by CHOICE: do you choose to try and overthrow Mengsk, or beat down on Kerrigan? If you choose to overthrow, the final segment of missions are primarily TvT with a final TvZ level, as after Mengsk is successfully expelled, you are left to fight the swarm alone. If you choose to fight Kerrigan, you temporarily ally with Mengsk to destroy her, and then have to fight Mengsk in the final mission. The end position is the same either way: Raynor is in control of the Dominion, the Zerg are temporarily repulsed, and the Protoss are left alone while writers desperately try and think up some kind of internal conflict to develop. This sets up HotS beautifully, as you have to now play as the Zerg and sweep up the ashes before launching another attack on the Sector. There would, of course, be some more details further down, but that's a good general framework for the Starcraft 2 plot. What did they do instead? Introduce their trump card, the Zerg, two missions in; have the end of the campaign be you versus the Zerg instead of the Dominion; and worst of all, screw up THEIR OWN PLOT. Raynor says, in SCBW mission 8 (True Colors), that HE WILL BE THE MAN TO KILL KERRIGAN. Now, all he wants to do is save her. Hell, they could have had good tension with him wanting to kill her but having to heed Zeratul's warning, but instead, they decided to undo a lot of the great buildup that happened towards the end of the SC1 campaign. Oh well, at least the missions are fun and innovative.
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On August 02 2010 19:35 marshmallow wrote:
Using a prophecy in a sci-fi setting is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.
For me, that is definitely the worst part of it all. I HATE prophecies. And I absolutely don't know what you need them for in this setting anyways. Raynor doesn't need a prophecy to safe Kerrigan. They wipe out the zerg on Char, he finds her, recognizes her human side and realizes that he cannot kill her. I am pretty sure you can work out the Zeratul campaign without a prophecy. He was onto the hybrid thing in SC1 anyway, just continue his quest to find more answers.
In the end what happens most of the time is: "Yeah,we had this prophecy, but it was unclear anyway". And of course someone clever says: "WE MAKE OUR OWN FUTURE, IT IS UNWRITTEN, FIGHT FOR YOUR FAMILIES."
I hated prophecies in Lord of the Rings, in Harry Potter (I know, I'm kinda mainstream when it comes to fantasy) and I hate them in my video games.
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On August 02 2010 19:35 marshmallow wrote:
Using a prophecy in a sci-fi setting is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.
battlestar galactica?
it IS kinda unnecessary though.
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The story was terrible in WoL. There was no progression from event to event, and the characters (old and new) had no depth. Aside from things already mentioned, I believe major part of the problem is due to the poor dialogue through the entire campaign. Way too many one-liners that offer no insight into the situation/characters, and no meaningful conversations that would help develop the relationship between any two characters. Conversations in SC1 and BW had so much meaning (especially during the protoss campaign). I don't think the new writers grasped the traits that defined Kerrigan and Zeratul. They have nothing in common with their SC1 counterpart.
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On August 03 2010 05:46 Doc Daneeka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 19:35 marshmallow wrote:
Using a prophecy in a sci-fi setting is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. battlestar galactica? it IS kinda unnecessary though.
Horus Heresy?
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On August 03 2010 05:43 Malinor wrote:
In the end what happens most of the time is: "Yeah,we had this prophecy, but it was unclear anyway". And of course someone clever says: "WE MAKE OUR OWN FUTURE, IT IS UNWRITTEN, FIGHT FOR YOUR FAMILIES."
Man
Seriously, this is getting old.
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5. What are the canon endings for Tosh and Dr. Handsome? If they both die, that fucking sucks cuz that means their missions were nothing but filler. That means the campaign is even smaller than it already feels.
blizzard or metzen said in an interview that the choices that offer least casualities are cannon (hanson and tosh are cannon).
BLizzard are just bad. i wont even expect anything from heart of the swarm and honestly i dont care anymore. The amount of crap i desire to eat can only go so faar.
Missions and multiplayer is awesome though.
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United States12240 Posts
I liked the single-player campaign. I don't know what a lot of people in this thread are talking about as though the Protoss were all unified at one point, or the Zerg were all unified, or the Terrans were. That was never the case. There is always dissension among the ranks, or splinter factions. The Conclave fought with the Dark Templar, the Zerg fought rogue Cerebrates or used Kerrigan to destroy Cerebrates loyal to the new Overmind, and the Confederacy, Dominion and UED fought constantly.
I watched the last cinematic and said aloud to my monitor: "...that's it??" Then I realized that this was merely Act I in the trilogy and unanswered questions were inevitable. I would have liked some kind of grand revelation or action against Mengsk or something better than the completely open-ended result that we saw.
I don't think the writing is as bad as a lot of people claim it to be. I really liked a lot of the new characters, especially Tychus. I questioned Kerrigan reverting to a human but now I'm interested to see what will become of it... will she be able to command the Zerg? People like to compare the Hybrid to the Burning Legion but it's not that superficial. The graying-over of the races in War3 and especially War3x was done in preparation of WoW where each of these races would be playable, and it creates a more dynamic and deeper story than the cliched good versus evil. The ending sets up Heart of the Swarm perfectly where we'll either see Kerrigan continue to command the Zerg or someone new step up to lead them.
Someone in this thread said that it didn't make any sense for Raynor to rescue Kerrigan after he said in the first game that he would be the one to kill her. That actually makes perfect sense in context. He wanted her to be redeemed but if worse came to worst he would take responsibility. It's like an Old Yeller type scenario. He stuck with his emo thoughts hoping he could get her back, and he risked everything to see that slim chance through. If it would have failed and his back was to the wall I'm sure he still would have killed her.
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Its not that writing was worse. You got older and have come to expect more, which is why you find all these cheesy one liners and recycled plots lame.
Having said that I also think sc1 was better too. And you kids get off my lawn btw!
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On August 01 2010 16:55 DocM wrote:
Another thing is that the protoss dont even care about the zerg invasion anymore which is a bit uncharacteristic considering sc1 and bw.
umm the last Dr. Hanson mission? you do realize the purpose of saving/killing the colony, yes?
A huge plot hole is that kerrigan keeps yelling at zeratul during the protoss campaign that were all going to die and its useless to continue. That we might as well get consumed by oblivion. It almost seems like she has resigned to her fate. (once again, disgustingly out of character). So how come shes still out and doing stuff when she knows that shes going to die anyway. Why does she need the xel naga artifacts if shes knows its useless.... what was her aim in obtaining them in the first place???
You do realize that there are 2 expansions, so it would be expected to leave holes in the plot. + Show Spoiler +And if you are going to question this, what about Mengsk being revolted on then is still able to keep the throne?
Furthermore, how come her years of evolution and biding her time left her weak enough to be killed by half a dominion fleet and a good tactician??? even with most her air forces or nydus forces gone. seems pretty retarded. The only thing i could come up with is that she overextended herself in the invasion of the terran worlds and didnt leave enough defense... (it says in a news report that the zerg are retreating back towards char right after you start the invasion).
Because if she was invincible, there would be no story now would there? And she wasn't defeated by the Dominion fleet singlehandedly, there was the Artifact that was used.
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On August 03 2010 06:09 EppE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 05:46 Doc Daneeka wrote:On August 02 2010 19:35 marshmallow wrote:
Using a prophecy in a sci-fi setting is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. battlestar galactica? it IS kinda unnecessary though. Horus Heresy?
Warhammer 40k is ridiculous. Plus, the Horus Heresy is awesome because it's well-written and exposes the flaws of the God-Emperor. He forsaw everything but refused to believe it because he is still human.
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On August 03 2010 08:09 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 06:09 EppE wrote:On August 03 2010 05:46 Doc Daneeka wrote:On August 02 2010 19:35 marshmallow wrote:
Using a prophecy in a sci-fi setting is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. battlestar galactica? it IS kinda unnecessary though. Horus Heresy? Warhammer 40k is ridiculous. Plus, the Horus Heresy is awesome because it's well-written and exposes the flaws of the God-Emperor. He forsaw everything but refused to believe it because he is still human.
40k is ridiculous in a way that makes it unbearably awesome! :D
I think you guys don't realize the complexity of the story. Terrans are basically fractured now because of the media blitz by Raynor; Mengsk has decent control of the core worlds but the fringe worlds broke up with them after not being helped when the zerg attacked. We also have no idea what the protoss is up to. And isn't BW basically everyone coming together (UED, Dominion, Protoss) to try and defeat the zerg?
No, BW isn't about that at all. BW was about factions, treachery, etc... Not some feel-good story that's a direct rip-off of Reign of Chaos. The only time that factions come together was at the very last mission, and they didn't even coordinate that (Mengsk even comments on this in the mission briefing). Not only that, the bolded part sounds very familiar... Oh, wait, it's the exact same story from the Confederacy before the Dominion. Fucking terrible script and a pathetic plot that isn't even ripped from other sources, it's ripped straight from their own games.
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I don't really have a problem with the Char stuff. Play it on Brutal and it doesn't feel like Char was a well handled Dominion invasion.
I do have problems with the direction of the story though. Pretty much for what everyone is saying here. Zerg were awesome because they were hell-bent rapid expansion. Having them be saviors of the universe is pretty damn lame.
Also is it just me or is the whole Tychus arc kinda lame? They build it up and up over the whole game then just have a quick ending to it all in the last 45 seconds of the campaign.
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I did not really have a problem with the story BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING RTS GAME AND NOT A MOVIE. As long as the story is somewhat entertaining and lets you kill stuff using real time strategy, then it's a good story.
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MURICA15980 Posts
I really feel the fact in SC1 that you were not one of the main characters but an unnamed "commander" or "celebrate" that controlled forces allowed the other main characters more freedom to be unpredictable and have alternate agendas. Without this element, we pretty much knew exactly where Raynor was heading, and besides just rounding up some artifacts and "getting money" nothing happened until the end... and even that didn't make sense.
Zeratul's flashbacks would have been so much better if they did not butcher the Zerg into being slaves. That doesn't make sense with the lore at all. In fact, that is total bullshit.
With that said, the campaign's gameplay was simply amazing. The execution of the whole thing in the Hyperion was indeed innovative and I liked it a lot. But if we weren't Raynor and could actually go outside the realm and influence of Raynor with our decisions, I would have liked the story more. But the levels were amazing.
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A huge plot hole is that kerrigan keeps yelling at zeratul during the protoss campaign that were all going to die and its useless to continue. That we might as well get consumed by oblivion. It almost seems like she has resigned to her fate. (once again, disgustingly out of character). So how come shes still out and doing stuff when she knows that shes going to die anyway. Why does she need the xel naga artifacts if shes knows its useless.... what was her aim in obtaining them in the first place???
This was exactly my thoughts upon completion.
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Hm. I really got the idea that I was the only one on all of TL/multiplayer who cared about single player since SC1 lol :O
As soon as I finished the single player I went to TL and expected to find this thread up and running ^_^ That made no sense! Huge plot holes... and plot holes that weren't even satisfying/fun/redeeming! @()#*(# Sigh.
Some annoying story parts that I don't think were covered yet:
1. What happened after the UED BW terran aftermath? It seemed to just be the aftermath of SC1 really.
2. Too many rednecks in the terrans, only Tychus was cool, and I did not somehow realize how much of a redneck Jim Raynor was.
3. It seemed that all of the Toss, like, every last one died for good already?? :p This advanced race went out in a stupid way, pretty much an inarguably stupid, stupid way considering how different/better they faced oblivion when Tassadar was around. Expected more from this advanced race than something even Mel Gibson would have called Cliche.
4. One of the most impossibly incongruent parts was having Raynor slaughtering and desecrating the Protoss just for a little cash, before he realized there was a good reason to gather the artifacts later.
Hm, it was already mentioned that Kerrigan and Raynor used to be better characters. SIGH :p Did not want Raynor to give believe in each other cliche genera, Kerrigan to turn back to human and a dual human/zerg personality ("don't give up" part from human side at the end), did not want elaborate Mengsk story line or a son of Mengsk who seemed intentionally gay, did not want a prophecy, Tassadar... strangeness, a prophecy that does not make sense and probably won't later, omfg huge plot hole ending with Tychus and having no choice. -_- SC1 had a huge mystery waiting and apparently 10 years + was not enough time to think it out.
Missions were kind of fun, though not the protoss ones with the Hybrids. I liked the control between mission- talking to characters. Should have had more romance options with Dr. Hanson and Nova :o. Particularly liked the lab and the growing crystal and zerg specimen, with notes. I actually burst out laughing a bit when Tychus complained that the assembled artifact weapon might ruin the space-time continuum if they are reckless. ^.^
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Yeah, the lore is messed up right now. We can just hope that It'll be fixed eventually...
also @Servolisk - ('uncovered' parts)
1. UED was wiped out in the sector, but it still is active in earth region. That my friend should be understandable w/o googling anything, after you complete SC1 Missions.
2. Kind of agree.
3. That was a prophecy, not real events. Also what good could they do when they are being swarmed by bunch of hybrids. Also When Tassadar was around, they could run somewhere, now all their hope was lost since in that timeline Kerrigan has died, and only thing they could do is kill as many as possible before dying.
4. Those Protoss weren't the Aiur Protoss. Those 'sundrop' (That was the name, was it?) addicts are servants of Ulrezaj (or something. forgot his name). A dark templar who is responsible for wiping the preservers from earth. I'm not sure who leads them now tho, since Ulrezaj was trapped inside a Crystal. Could be that dark voice took control of them, seeing as it could corrupt Protoss in the first mission you encounter hybrids.
(You should read 'The Dark Templar saga' books. It's a small side-story that explains stuff in SC2)
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On August 03 2010 14:02 Logo wrote:
Also is it just me or is the whole Tychus arc kinda lame? They build it up and up over the whole game then just have a quick ending to it all in the last 45 seconds of the campaign.
No it´s the best part of the Story. You see it coming all the way from the intro but that is why it works. We are SUPPOSED to hate Raynor for killing Tychus. It would have worked even better if there wasn´t a Prophecy - it´s optional and thus plotirrelevant anyway. The point is that Tychus has no choice and if they handled the Prophecy a bit better Raynor would have a choice.
Raynor has to make some very hard desicions in the campaign and the importance is reinforced by having the Player make these choices two cases. That makes these choices "stronger" for the Player but unfortunately irrelevant to the Story - some Players could skip them.
The modular Missionstructure is the problem. Without it they could have made stuff like colonies declaring independendce or the freeing of political prisoners be important to Raynors Rebellion. That is why you are so suprised when Char pops up - the majority of the events are irrelevant to the Mainplot progression.
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On August 03 2010 16:33 zingmars wrote:
Yeah, the lore is messed up right now. We can just hope that It'll be fixed eventually...
also @Servolisk - ('uncovered' parts)
1. UED was wiped out in the sector, but it still is active in earth region. That my friend should be understandable w/o googling anything, after you complete SC1 Missions.
I know they were but I did not expect to see the Terran sector go completely back to Mengsk that way after the events of the zerg ending in BW. Let alone having Mengsk occupy himself with propaganda against Jim Raynor and not the battle to save humanity where we left off in BW. It makes sense after SC1's ending but not much after BW.
And regardless of who the protoss were, Aiur or not, they were just minding their own sacred artifact business and Raynor came and slaughtered them for cash like a big bastard, not really who he was before.
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And regardless of who the protoss were, Aiur or not, they were just minding their own sacred artifact business and Raynor came and slaughtered them for cash like a big bastard, not really who he was before.
Well that's the true nature of men. At least in Starcraft.
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I hope I havent been misleading,
I truly dont have any hate for the Blizzard writing staff, I have enormous respect for those guys and they have some serious talent.
Its not that I hate SC2's story, overall it was a very good story and should recieve high marks. We can nitpick it all day but in the end the actual story they came up with isn't bad.
Admittedly, it looks like they are going to follow in the vein of their older games where all the factions unite against a common foe. But we cant assume this to be the case considering that there are two more expansions coming. Especially because it has been stated that there are different structures for the three campaigns, and these structures may allow for a better presentation of the story than in WoL.
And im sure there were some cases where a really bad line came into the game and ruined a moment, which i suppose would go to the writing guys... But that wasn't exactly the worst part.
My beef here is with the presentation of the story, (multiple mission paths dont matter, lack of tension, ect. ect...)
I think some of it could be that you are no longer an entity and instead see the world through the eyes of Jim. This kind of makes it so you cant make objective comparisons about characters anymore, and so that your not really feeling that strong of a connection with the story.
Another big thing is that it just seemed devoid of relevance. I think i could pick out 5-8 of the missions and put them in linear order, and you could still get the same picture of events as if you played all 29. While these side quests can sometimes be interesting, and almost always have something to add to the backstory, they seem like filler to someone with an appetite for the story advancing really quickly in BW. (every mission would advance the plot in someway)
Its not that the story from those 5-8 missions was terrible, it just makes me feel swindled when i was expecting way more out of it. If we can expect the same result out of the next few expansions, wed have at most twenty fiveish missions of story to work with (in comparison with the 60 in sc+bw.
This may just be because they dont have enough material to fill up every mission with something that complex? It's certainly possible.
Personally, i enjoyed the story despite these gripes. It just seems to me that Blizzard made a mediocre plan, like basing the story off of gameplay instead of viseversa, and executed it perfectly. We cant yell at them for changing the formula up on us because its their game and their franchise, and if they continue to execute their formula perfectly like weve come to expect of them and as we have seen them do here, then i have complete faith in their ability to make great games, and in my ability to continue playing them.
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Well they sacrificed the story for the gameplay. I´d actually be fine with HAVING to play 26 Missions (you can finish the story with much less Missions total) if that meant that the subplots would have been part of the main plot.
For example helping the colonists so that they would declare independence, or freeing political prisoners with Tosh - would eventually weaken Mengsks position enough that Valerian would take over and THEN start the invasion on Char.
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I have no gripes with the story itself,it was alot better than i expected it could be after all this time.......Allot of the accusations and grounds against the story on these forums are baseless and just plain misunderstood..
A guess if you can fault it at anything is the way it told its story,since alot of people just didnt get it....otherwise everything makes scene,and proof is that on other forums people actually phrasing the story hard.....mostly since other forums are alot more casual,and theyve followed the story an and lore over the years alot more than participation on the multiplayer scene..
Like the guy above ,who think think the protoss from the original have already died,dude dont you get it,that was in the distant future after a long war with the hybrid...human are dead or assimilated,and this is all that left of the protoss's vast empire.....the last remnants of their civilization with theyre greatest heroes make a last stand agianst billions of zerg and hybrids,play it on brutal and youll see.....
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On August 04 2010 03:13 Unentschieden wrote:
Well they sacrificed the story for the gameplay. I´d actually be fine with HAVING to play 26 Missions (you can finish the story with much less Missions total) if that meant that the subplots would have been part of the main plot.
For example helping the colonists so that they would declare independence, or freeing political prisoners with Tosh - would eventually weaken Mengsks position enough that Valerian would take over and THEN start the invasion on Char.
Well that was the point of these subplost,freedom to take them whenever you want,yet they all tie into ,lead into......the ending...weakening Mengst or influencing Rainor to make the choice he did......
I think Blizz was brilliant they gave us choice,to play the campaign the way we want,yet have mission that are meaningful no mater in which order their taken....
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