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NBA General Discussion - Page 48

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
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JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18041 Posts
September 23 2020 00:54 GMT
#941
On September 23 2020 08:03 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2020 13:04 cLutZ wrote:
On September 22 2020 09:25 Jerubaal wrote:
That's a bit of a tautology, isn't it? Lebron wins when he has a good team and only loses when the other team is better?


Lebron's teams have always been evaluated downwards after the fact. This is a consistent method of excuse making. 2009 is a perfect example. You could not have defended the ECF loss during preseason. Spurs loss 2 and GSW loss 1 are similar, but I'd excuse the GSW series because injuries if people would admit that "OMG that Spurs team was a team possessed" is just post hoccing it. The team was old AF, except Kawhi who was still not in his prime. They won because they ran superior offensive and defensive systems. And that he doesn't like running good systems is a consistent and accurate critique of Lebron.Its not that he doesn't play the hero enough, its that the ball doesn't move enough. He bullyballs it every time when it counts.

Oh, and having trouble developing and keeping people around him is another problem. LeGM as his people try to trend it when something good happens. Why did he LeGM Boozer out of town? Why has he never LeGM'd a rookie into something? Shortsightedness was most of CLE's problem in both stints. Not giving into his shortsighted demands is why he left the Heat. Sure, Mike Brown (or is that the author?) is dumb, but that's mostly not relevant to my point. Even with a derpy owner for a lot of the time he had the best team going into the season 6-8 times.


Simply untrue. You can find multiple sites that show historical betting odds, which is probably the least biased way to see how teams were evaluated since people are literally putting their money where there mouth is and you can see both the Spurs and Warriors were the favorites in the finals before they started.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-finals-historical-series-odds-list

The greatness of the 2014 Spurs was not post hoc'd as you say. Their play was universally acclaimed and widely referred to as "The Beautiful Game" even before they won the championship.

As for LeGM, if your goal is to win championships then being short-sighted is not a criticism. Why should he care about the future of the team? He's not there to develop talent or draft well. He wants to trade off future picks, go deep into luxury tax and put everything into a 3-4 year span where they can make some runs at a championship. Then jump ship to the next team and let the previous team pick up the pieces. It's the end result of a bunch of fans deciding Ringz Erneh is the only metric of greatness worth talking about.

betting odds can sometimes provide a vague indicator. Sometimes betting odds can't even do that. People's perception of what they think is true gets shown in the betting odds. Not what the reality is.

Mike Tyson was perceived as an unstoppable killer going into 1990. In reality, his life was a train wreck. He was a 43 to 1 favourite. He got methodically picked apart over 10 grueling rounds. "The betting public" was clueless.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 23 2020 03:47 GMT
#942
On September 23 2020 08:03 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2020 13:04 cLutZ wrote:
On September 22 2020 09:25 Jerubaal wrote:
That's a bit of a tautology, isn't it? Lebron wins when he has a good team and only loses when the other team is better?


Lebron's teams have always been evaluated downwards after the fact. This is a consistent method of excuse making. 2009 is a perfect example. You could not have defended the ECF loss during preseason. Spurs loss 2 and GSW loss 1 are similar, but I'd excuse the GSW series because injuries if people would admit that "OMG that Spurs team was a team possessed" is just post hoccing it. The team was old AF, except Kawhi who was still not in his prime. They won because they ran superior offensive and defensive systems. And that he doesn't like running good systems is a consistent and accurate critique of Lebron.Its not that he doesn't play the hero enough, its that the ball doesn't move enough. He bullyballs it every time when it counts.

Oh, and having trouble developing and keeping people around him is another problem. LeGM as his people try to trend it when something good happens. Why did he LeGM Boozer out of town? Why has he never LeGM'd a rookie into something? Shortsightedness was most of CLE's problem in both stints. Not giving into his shortsighted demands is why he left the Heat. Sure, Mike Brown (or is that the author?) is dumb, but that's mostly not relevant to my point. Even with a derpy owner for a lot of the time he had the best team going into the season 6-8 times.


Simply untrue. You can find multiple sites that show historical betting odds, which is probably the least biased way to see how teams were evaluated since people are literally putting their money where there mouth is and you can see both the Spurs and Warriors were the favorites in the finals before they started.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-finals-historical-series-odds-list

The greatness of the 2014 Spurs was not post hoc'd as you say. Their play was universally acclaimed and widely referred to as "The Beautiful Game" even before they won the championship.

As for LeGM, if your goal is to win championships then being short-sighted is not a criticism. Why should he care about the future of the team? He's not there to develop talent or draft well. He wants to trade off future picks, go deep into luxury tax and put everything into a 3-4 year span where they can make some runs at a championship. Then jump ship to the next team and let the previous team pick up the pieces. It's the end result of a bunch of fans deciding Ringz Erneh is the only metric of greatness worth talking about.


My simple rejoinder is "why has Lebron never been a participant in an offense that is a 'beautiful game'?" Why has everyone of his top tier teammates gotten worse with him aside from AD?

Also, the LeGM shortsightedness weakened the 2008-2010 Cavs teams and post-title CLE teams. If you don't think those runs had a title in them, well, IDK.
Freeeeeeedom
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18041 Posts
September 23 2020 15:11 GMT
#943
isn't it Ricky Bobby who said .. "if you're not first... you're last"...
actually he probably said " if your not first your last". But, that is being nitpicky.

Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
September 23 2020 21:37 GMT
#944
On September 23 2020 12:47 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2020 08:03 BlackJack wrote:
On September 22 2020 13:04 cLutZ wrote:
On September 22 2020 09:25 Jerubaal wrote:
That's a bit of a tautology, isn't it? Lebron wins when he has a good team and only loses when the other team is better?


Lebron's teams have always been evaluated downwards after the fact. This is a consistent method of excuse making. 2009 is a perfect example. You could not have defended the ECF loss during preseason. Spurs loss 2 and GSW loss 1 are similar, but I'd excuse the GSW series because injuries if people would admit that "OMG that Spurs team was a team possessed" is just post hoccing it. The team was old AF, except Kawhi who was still not in his prime. They won because they ran superior offensive and defensive systems. And that he doesn't like running good systems is a consistent and accurate critique of Lebron.Its not that he doesn't play the hero enough, its that the ball doesn't move enough. He bullyballs it every time when it counts.

Oh, and having trouble developing and keeping people around him is another problem. LeGM as his people try to trend it when something good happens. Why did he LeGM Boozer out of town? Why has he never LeGM'd a rookie into something? Shortsightedness was most of CLE's problem in both stints. Not giving into his shortsighted demands is why he left the Heat. Sure, Mike Brown (or is that the author?) is dumb, but that's mostly not relevant to my point. Even with a derpy owner for a lot of the time he had the best team going into the season 6-8 times.


Simply untrue. You can find multiple sites that show historical betting odds, which is probably the least biased way to see how teams were evaluated since people are literally putting their money where there mouth is and you can see both the Spurs and Warriors were the favorites in the finals before they started.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-finals-historical-series-odds-list

The greatness of the 2014 Spurs was not post hoc'd as you say. Their play was universally acclaimed and widely referred to as "The Beautiful Game" even before they won the championship.

As for LeGM, if your goal is to win championships then being short-sighted is not a criticism. Why should he care about the future of the team? He's not there to develop talent or draft well. He wants to trade off future picks, go deep into luxury tax and put everything into a 3-4 year span where they can make some runs at a championship. Then jump ship to the next team and let the previous team pick up the pieces. It's the end result of a bunch of fans deciding Ringz Erneh is the only metric of greatness worth talking about.


My simple rejoinder is "why has Lebron never been a participant in an offense that is a 'beautiful game'?" Why has everyone of his top tier teammates gotten worse with him aside from AD?

Also, the LeGM shortsightedness weakened the 2008-2010 Cavs teams and post-title CLE teams. If you don't think those runs had a title in them, well, IDK.


The current method of (super)team building, which is lumping together ball-dominant all-stars doesn't lend well to the type of selflessness and chemistry needed for that type of game. It also requires a lot of off-the-ball movement and who even knows if LeBron would have the energy to run around without the ball considering how much he already contributes. He's also selfish and needs the stats to add up in his boxscore so he can build his GOAT resume. Also I don't know how much LeGM existed in and prior to 2008-2010. LeBron was 23 years old at the start of the 2008 season, it's hard to imagine the Cavs were letting him call the shots at that age.

Now you're basically asking him to be a fundamentally different player and playing so many games of "what if" that nobody can prove or disprove what you're saying so it may as well be meaningless.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18041 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-26 17:34:37
September 26 2020 16:08 GMT
#945
https://tl.net/forum/sports/526388-nba-season-2017-2018?page=130#2600

No surprise to me that Daniel Theis has blossomed during this playoff run. Nice game by him last night.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16129 Posts
September 27 2020 04:09 GMT
#946
We comin for that 17th Banner! GO LAKERS!
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
September 28 2020 22:02 GMT
#947
doc fired, random as hell
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 28 2020 23:34 GMT
#948
On September 29 2020 07:02 zev318 wrote:
doc fired, random as hell


I mean, he's kind of just a sac of potatoes that complains a lot. Not a great coach by any means and they probably had the most disappointing season of any team in the league.
Freeeeeeedom
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
September 29 2020 00:50 GMT
#949
On September 29 2020 08:34 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2020 07:02 zev318 wrote:
doc fired, random as hell


I mean, he's kind of just a sac of potatoes that complains a lot. Not a great coach by any means and they probably had the most disappointing season of any team in the league.


i just thought if they never fired the guy after all the disappointments from the cp3/griffin era, then they wouldnt do it until they bomb out of the playoffs again next season and kawhi/george both leave in FA
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 29 2020 02:34 GMT
#950
On September 29 2020 09:50 zev318 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2020 08:34 cLutZ wrote:
On September 29 2020 07:02 zev318 wrote:
doc fired, random as hell


I mean, he's kind of just a sac of potatoes that complains a lot. Not a great coach by any means and they probably had the most disappointing season of any team in the league.


i just thought if they never fired the guy after all the disappointments from the cp3/griffin era, then they wouldnt do it until they bomb out of the playoffs again next season and kawhi/george both leave in FA

Fair
Freeeeeeedom
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18041 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-29 14:55:20
September 29 2020 14:33 GMT
#951
On September 29 2020 07:02 zev318 wrote:
doc fired, random as hell

Based upon the vid i posted a few days ago I don't think one should be shocked.

"the only thing that matters is the Larry Oh Bea"
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18041 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-30 17:40:24
September 30 2020 17:39 GMT
#952
There was a huge outpouring of support amongst Raptors players for Dwane Casey after his firing. I'm not seeing any of that with Doc Rivers.

give him whatever level of autonomy he wants.
https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2020/09/29/raptors-president-masai-ujiri-will-get-his-contract-extension-in-due-time-tanenbaum-says.html
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16129 Posts
October 01 2020 18:21 GMT
#953
there needs to be an actual clippers fanbase for there to be an outpouring of support.

Problem is, there is no actual Clippers fanbase. It's a collaboration of Lakers haters and bandwagon Kawhi fans right now. Lob City at least had personality and fun to cheer for superstars. The current Clippers doesn't have any of that.

In Los Angeles they are not a beloved franchise at all. Never have been.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 02 2020 09:25 GMT
#954
--- Nuked ---
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 02 2020 14:18 GMT
#955
Well that is a guaranteed non-solution to their issues.
Freeeeeeedom
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-03 18:01:31
October 03 2020 18:01 GMT
#956
LeBron with a cool 33-9-9 zero TO statline last night. #washedking
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18041 Posts
October 07 2020 04:04 GMT
#957
On October 04 2020 03:01 darthfoley wrote:
LeBron with a cool 33-9-9 zero TO statline last night. #washedking

"meet the new boss....same as the old boss"
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-10 05:18:01
October 10 2020 04:40 GMT
#958
This must be the least engagement for a Finals ever for this thread.

And when can we break out the Froggy Fresh?
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 10 2020 09:50 GMT
#959
Well, I think the whole end of season thing has been such a fiasco that this is just the continuing of that.
Freeeeeeedom
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18041 Posts
October 10 2020 21:34 GMT
#960
"I’ve never known a man worth his salt who in the long run, deep down in his heart, didn’t appreciate the grind, the discipline.... I firmly believe that any man’s finest hour-this greatest fulfillment to all he holds dear-is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle victorious."

[image loading]
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
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