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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16998 Posts
I do not hate Derozan. Nor, do I hate Johnny Damon. In fact, when Derozan first signed that deal I believed he would grow as a play-maker, defender, and 3 point shooter. I was wrong: he only improved as a play maker. Derozan is ok. He is not worth the deal he signed and it was a good move by Ujiri to trade him. Likewise it was smart for the Oakland A's to let Damon go. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On September 19 2020 10:30 JimmiC wrote: Really fun game to watch game so far. So excited for this series. Jokic looks so good, killin em with he scoring and passing. AD also looking great, LBJ awesome. I think having AD with him gives Lebron the ability to play the way he's always naturally wanted to. Ya, he's had to take over and be "the man" in tons of his playoff runs, and totally has that ability, but Lebron has always been about passing the ball if he feels that doing so is making the right play. From day 1, he's been adamant that getting his teammates open looks is his preference, and he's been raked over the coals for it through the years when he's passed the ball in clutch moments. AD gives him a teammate that can finish the play consistently. I think D.Wade's skills and spacing overlapped too much for it to work seamlessly, and Kyrie strikes me as a toxic teammate who's hot/cold and unreliable. AD is 6'11 with finish at the rim and gives Lebron a huge target to pass to when the double team comes. It just works so smooth. There's a reason he led the league in Ast/gm for the first time in his career at the age of 35, and he still put 25/gm on the board to get his. Criticize the guy all you want for building his super-teams, but he's still probably the most complete player the NBA has ever seen. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On September 17 2020 00:54 Vindicare605 wrote: It was a combo. Doc deserves the lion share of the blame for sure, he's been there 10 years and hasn't gotten them past the second round ONCE despite having tons of talent to do so. But Kawhi and Paul George simply quit on the team last night, just like they did at the end of every game of Denver's comeback. A lot of the credit goes to the Nuggets who played better than I thought they would because I thought Paul George and Kawhi Leonard and Pat Beverly could shut down Murray better than the Jazz could. When it mattered, they couldn't. IMO. I'm laughing the most at Paul George. The Clippers traded FIVE first round picks for him, and he made 4 field goals in the entire game 7. This is after last year falling apart in OKC and being a gigantic disappointment there too. Is he washed up, I don't know, maybe he has another good regular season in him somewhere. But his reputation as a choker in the playoffs is going to stick with him for sometime to come. It's not quitting. It's trying to do too much. The Clippers offense has a tendency to stagnate when the opponent is making their run. They have too many players that default to one on one, hero ball type of play. Kawhi is improving as a playmaker but he isn't a natural one. He thrives with an actual point guard, like Parker or Lowry, running the offense and getting him the ball in his spots. PG is a second option on offense. He can't alternate being a first option with Kawhi. He needs playmakers for him. People criticize Lebron for passing the ball and making the right play in high pressure situations. But making the right play is precisely why Lebron is in those high pressure situations frequently. He knows how to run an offense and actually trusts his teammates and puts them in the right situations to succeed. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 21 2020 02:27 andrewlt wrote: It's not quitting. It's trying to do too much. The Clippers offense has a tendency to stagnate when the opponent is making their run. They have too many players that default to one on one, hero ball type of play. Kawhi is improving as a playmaker but he isn't a natural one. He thrives with an actual point guard, like Parker or Lowry, running the offense and getting him the ball in his spots. PG is a second option on offense. He can't alternate being a first option with Kawhi. He needs playmakers for him. People criticize Lebron for passing the ball and making the right play in high pressure situations. But making the right play is precisely why Lebron is in those high pressure situations frequently. He knows how to run an offense and actually trusts his teammates and puts them in the right situations to succeed. People criticize LeBron because he's there most talented player ever and he acts like Kyle Lowry | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On September 21 2020 03:15 cLutZ wrote: People criticize LeBron because he's there most talented player ever and he acts like Kyle Lowry But that results in winning basketball more often than not. What people want Lebron to do results in the sort of offensive collapses the Clippers had in games 6 and 7. They scored only around 35 points in the second halves of both. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 21 2020 06:51 cLutZ wrote: Not at all. A properly minded LeBron would easily have 6 -8 titles by now What does that even mean? You could certainly make this case for the Dallas finals but basically every other finals he lost he was on the worse team | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16998 Posts
On September 21 2020 03:15 cLutZ wrote: People criticize LeBron because he's there most talented player ever and he acts like Kyle Lowry off the court Lowry keeps his mouth shut. not so for Lebron. On September 17 2020 00:54 Vindicare605 wrote: A lot of the credit goes to the Nuggets who played better than I thought they would because I thought Paul George and Kawhi Leonard and Pat Beverly could shut down Murray better than the Jazz could. When it mattered, they couldn't. i laughed four years ago when Murray called himself one of the best scorers in the NBA. He probably wasn't back then. He definitely is now. Murray put on a show. https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/nba/jamal-murray-denver-nuggets-1.3789828 On September 21 2020 02:27 andrewlt wrote: He thrives with an actual point guard, like Parker or Lowry, running the offense and getting him the ball in his spots. PG is a second option on offense. He can't alternate being a first option with Kawhi. He needs playmakers for him. People criticize Lebron for passing the ball and making the right play in high pressure situations. But making the right play is precisely why Lebron is in those high pressure situations frequently. He knows how to run an offense and actually trusts his teammates and puts them in the right situations to succeed. these are all really good points. PG is a career 35% shooter from 3 and 42% over all in the playoffs. I'm not sure what people were expecting from him? Coming into this playoff season PG13 shot very close to 40% in 4 of his 8 playoff runs. Surprise, surprise, he did it again this year... he shot 39.8%. Guys who shoot like that have plenty of "off nights". | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On September 21 2020 06:51 cLutZ wrote: Not at all. A properly minded LeBron would easily have 6 -8 titles by now When Lebron plays hero-ball he loses. Whether by choice or by being forced into it. Look at the Dallas loss, the Spurs loss, Golden State is a bit of an anomaly because of just how good they were, but when Kyrie was there and healthy (ie. a solid option to pass to) and he didn't need to play hero-ball, they won. So......... | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
The only year that Lebron really could've won by being more aggressive was that Dallas loss. The Spurs loss was inevitable. They were lucky to beat the Spurs the previous year. The Spurs took advantage of their system and aging players and used their aggressiveness against them. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 22 2020 03:00 cLutZ wrote: Dallas Loss and Spurs Losses were being outsystemed and mindgamed. GSW loss 1 was injuries, partially, but still a super overrated warriors team that was not as good as its regular season records. There is also 2008-2010, and the worst probably being 2009. I still don't even know what the argument is you're trying to make. That LeBron could have willed his teams to more victories by playing hero ball and trying to score more if he just had more mental fortitude? I thought I was the biggest LeBron stan here but even I wouldn't go as far as to say LeBron is so god-like that he could have easily won several more championships if he had the will for it | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 22 2020 09:25 Jerubaal wrote: That's a bit of a tautology, isn't it? Lebron wins when he has a good team and only loses when the other team is better? Lebron's teams have always been evaluated downwards after the fact. This is a consistent method of excuse making. 2009 is a perfect example. You could not have defended the ECF loss during preseason. Spurs loss 2 and GSW loss 1 are similar, but I'd excuse the GSW series because injuries if people would admit that "OMG that Spurs team was a team possessed" is just post hoccing it. The team was old AF, except Kawhi who was still not in his prime. They won because they ran superior offensive and defensive systems. And that he doesn't like running good systems is a consistent and accurate critique of Lebron.Its not that he doesn't play the hero enough, its that the ball doesn't move enough. He bullyballs it every time when it counts. Oh, and having trouble developing and keeping people around him is another problem. LeGM as his people try to trend it when something good happens. Why did he LeGM Boozer out of town? Why has he never LeGM'd a rookie into something? Shortsightedness was most of CLE's problem in both stints. Not giving into his shortsighted demands is why he left the Heat. Sure, Mike Brown (or is that the author?) is dumb, but that's mostly not relevant to my point. Even with a derpy owner for a lot of the time he had the best team going into the season 6-8 times. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On September 22 2020 13:04 cLutZ wrote: Lebron's teams have always been evaluated downwards after the fact. This is a consistent method of excuse making. 2009 is a perfect example. You could not have defended the ECF loss during preseason. Spurs loss 2 and GSW loss 1 are similar, but I'd excuse the GSW series because injuries if people would admit that "OMG that Spurs team was a team possessed" is just post hoccing it. The team was old AF, except Kawhi who was still not in his prime. They won because they ran superior offensive and defensive systems. And that he doesn't like running good systems is a consistent and accurate critique of Lebron.Its not that he doesn't play the hero enough, its that the ball doesn't move enough. He bullyballs it every time when it counts. Oh, and having trouble developing and keeping people around him is another problem. LeGM as his people try to trend it when something good happens. Why did he LeGM Boozer out of town? Why has he never LeGM'd a rookie into something? Shortsightedness was most of CLE's problem in both stints. Not giving into his shortsighted demands is why he left the Heat. Sure, Mike Brown (or is that the author?) is dumb, but that's mostly not relevant to my point. Even with a derpy owner for a lot of the time he had the best team going into the season 6-8 times. 2014 Miami was old AF too. This was written in 2013, so there was no post hoccing. People already knew Miami's legs were giving out. https://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/60145/the-miami-heats-age-old-problem. And there is no way in hell 2009 Cleveland was the best team. | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 22 2020 13:04 cLutZ wrote: Lebron's teams have always been evaluated downwards after the fact. This is a consistent method of excuse making. 2009 is a perfect example. You could not have defended the ECF loss during preseason. Spurs loss 2 and GSW loss 1 are similar, but I'd excuse the GSW series because injuries if people would admit that "OMG that Spurs team was a team possessed" is just post hoccing it. The team was old AF, except Kawhi who was still not in his prime. They won because they ran superior offensive and defensive systems. And that he doesn't like running good systems is a consistent and accurate critique of Lebron.Its not that he doesn't play the hero enough, its that the ball doesn't move enough. He bullyballs it every time when it counts. Oh, and having trouble developing and keeping people around him is another problem. LeGM as his people try to trend it when something good happens. Why did he LeGM Boozer out of town? Why has he never LeGM'd a rookie into something? Shortsightedness was most of CLE's problem in both stints. Not giving into his shortsighted demands is why he left the Heat. Sure, Mike Brown (or is that the author?) is dumb, but that's mostly not relevant to my point. Even with a derpy owner for a lot of the time he had the best team going into the season 6-8 times. Simply untrue. You can find multiple sites that show historical betting odds, which is probably the least biased way to see how teams were evaluated since people are literally putting their money where there mouth is and you can see both the Spurs and Warriors were the favorites in the finals before they started. https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-finals-historical-series-odds-list The greatness of the 2014 Spurs was not post hoc'd as you say. Their play was universally acclaimed and widely referred to as "The Beautiful Game" even before they won the championship. As for LeGM, if your goal is to win championships then being short-sighted is not a criticism. Why should he care about the future of the team? He's not there to develop talent or draft well. He wants to trade off future picks, go deep into luxury tax and put everything into a 3-4 year span where they can make some runs at a championship. Then jump ship to the next team and let the previous team pick up the pieces. It's the end result of a bunch of fans deciding Ringz Erneh is the only metric of greatness worth talking about. | ||
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