EPTNBA Playoffs + Finals 2018 - Page 20
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37099 Posts
On May 08 2018 00:34 Twinkle Toes wrote: 1. Superstars who don't function as a team 2. Westbrook Can you elaborate on 2? And I'm guessing 1 means that OKC is behaving like MIA used to back when they first started off with LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh? | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On May 08 2018 12:51 Seeker wrote: Can you elaborate on 2? And I'm guessing 1 means that OKC is behaving like MIA used to back when they first started off with LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh? My pleasure Key points:
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On May 08 2018 12:51 Seeker wrote: Can you elaborate on 2? And I'm guessing 1 means that OKC is behaving like MIA used to back when they first started off with LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh? The difference is that Lebron, Wade and Bosh were all good defensive players in their prime. They made it work even when they weren't in the same page on offense. Carmelo is past his prime and so bad on defense that the Jazz attacked him during that series. And fuck me, I can't get Drake singing God's plan out of my head now after this game. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On May 08 2018 13:17 andrewlt wrote: The difference is that Lebron, Wade and Bosh were all good defensive players in their prime. They made it work even when they weren't in the same page on offense. Carmelo is past his prime and so bad on defense and offense that the Jazz attacked him during that series. And fuck me, I can't get Drake singing God's plan out of my head now after this game. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 08 2018 11:59 Twinkle Toes wrote: And what a performance by the Cavs starters! A very underrated unit when it comes to talent, if not performance. Of course, this happens to every team of this type starting around 2007. Hmmmmmmm. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On May 08 2018 14:41 cLutZ wrote: A very underrated unit when it comes to talent, if not performance. Of course, this happens to every team of this type starting around 2007. Hmmmmmmm. I didn't get that reference. Is this a "Lebron James makes his star teammates worse" comment? | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23384071/lebron-james-plays-rests-keep-cleveland-cavaliers-hopes-alive Windhorst pretty much made his career following LBJ around like a puppy. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 08 2018 19:14 ZenithM wrote: I didn't get that reference. Is this a "Lebron James makes his star teammates worse" comment? They don't get worse, they just have to play in a way that tricks media clowns into thinking they are bad. These people are goldfish. Next worse is when they forget that different coaches are different this pretending a team like the Celtics has sick talent (right now) or thinking some Spurs rando that is hitting 4 3s in playoff games is going to contribute in Detroit | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
It's why Popovich only had a few coach of the year awards and didn't really start winning them until late in his career. When the "experts" start adding 10 wins to a team's prediction versus a comparable team because of coaching, the coach is going to need to win 10+ more games versus that comparable team to outperform projections. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On May 09 2018 06:36 andrewlt wrote: That same media narrative is the reason why coach of the year is a garbage award. At least for MVP, they trot out stats like team wins, points, rebounds and assists even if they frequently misuse them. Coach of the year is always about the team outperforming the media's preseason predictions. That doesn't mean the coach is good. Most of the time, it means the preseason prediction sucked. It's why Popovich only had a few coach of the year awards and didn't really start winning them until late in his career. When the "experts" start adding 10 wins to a team's prediction versus a comparable team because of coaching, the coach is going to need to win 10+ more games versus that comparable team to outperform projections. how else would u give out coach of the year? i mean u evaluate the talent on the team, and if they have less talent but win a lot of games, they would credit that to the coach. i mean pop's had, what, 3-4 HOFs on his roster at any given time throughout his tenure in san antonio, and u would expect a roster like that to win a lot of games. phil jackson falls into that too, he has had a lot of great players, and he's only won 1 coach of the year. is that fair, i dont know. its very different coaching no talent vs having to manage HOF egos. the ego management part is not something every writer would be privy to, so they base pretty much everything on wins and losses. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On other news, 2 of Pop's assistants will soon be NBA head coaches as well, good luck. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On May 09 2018 11:01 zev318 wrote: how else would u give out coach of the year? i mean u evaluate the talent on the team, and if they have less talent but win a lot of games, they would credit that to the coach. i mean pop's had, what, 3-4 HOFs on his roster at any given time throughout his tenure in san antonio, and u would expect a roster like that to win a lot of games. phil jackson falls into that too, he has had a lot of great players, and he's only won 1 coach of the year. is that fair, i dont know. its very different coaching no talent vs having to manage HOF egos. the ego management part is not something every writer would be privy to, so they base pretty much everything on wins and losses. Molding late first round and second round picks into HoFers is part of coaching. A good system makes players look more talented than ones stuck in a shitty environment. Define less talent. If a team wins more games than you expect, I would just say that your evaluation is wrong. The media is not good at talent evaluation. It's silly to assume you know which teams are more talented than others, especially with young talent that haven't had the chance to play much. Kawhi couldn't shoot when he got into the league. The Spurs had to teach him how to play offense. The media didn't foresee the leap that Golden State did after Mark Jackson got fired and now they have more talent than everybody else? Draymond Green was a second round pick who barely played before that. They were questioning the fit of having CP3 and Harden on the same team and now they're acting like it is the talent all along. So how come OKC didn't work out? There's a reason a lot of coach of the year winners get fired 2-3 seasons after winning it. The award often goes to fluke seasons and/or grossly misjudged teams that took advantage of their peers saving themselves for the playoffs. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
When KD joined the 73-9 Warriors, Kerr essentially forfeited all subsequent potential CotY awards, sure he's a good coach, but that's the definition of "out-talenting the league" right there. It's also difficult to give them to coaches with an "on-court coach" player in their lineup, like Lue with the Cavs. It's clear Lebron calls his own sets and plays most of the time, especially when it matters down the stretch. Houston's success seems more due to good GM-ing decisions to me, I'm not exactly sure what's the impact of D'Antoni here. It's not really like their gameplan is hard to come up with. Spread pick&roll and ISOs? Huh. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On May 09 2018 20:04 ZenithM wrote: It's clear Lebron calls his own sets and plays most of the time, especially when it matters down the stretch. This made me chuckle. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but I just find it funny that a player (has the reputation of/has the ability to undermine a coach. Maybe it's about Lebron not having a real tough authoritative coach, maybe it's about just flexing some goatish muscles, maybe it's maybeline, but this is such a unique scenario. Not even MJ or Kobe put themselves in this position. Houston's success seems more due to good GM-ing decisions to me, I'm not exactly sure what's the impact of D'Antoni here. It's not really like their gameplan is hard to come up with. Spread pick&roll and ISOs? Huh. I can't cite sources readily but I've been a big fan of Dan Tony SSOL and have read a lot on it, as well as its iteration with the GSW, but isn't it the consensus that the Houston system now is largely D'Antoni's? Pre-CP3 HOU was SSOL + clog the lane with Dwight. Slower, but with more defense. The problem was Harden was choking in the playoffs and hasn't really refined his offensive arsenal, and of course Dwight. Last year, we see shade of the ISO run and gun with Harden and Gordon and Ariza where the release valve is what D'Antoni called the mountain pass, a crosscourt pass from Harden once the ISO breaks down or the PNR hedges. This year we see a more simplified but more potent version of this. I believe that stats is that Harden/ISO is the leader in ISO points, and it all starts from there. But unlike last year, Houston spaces the floor wide open with 4 players outside and only Capella or Nene inside for the PNR. They don't even bother with back screens as much as most great offense teams do (GSW, BOS, PHI), but flavor the PNR only with flair screens and midrange pop. If not ISO/PNR, it's transition SSOL 3. The Infinity gauntlet that holds this all together is Harden being such a deceiving/sneaky player who has developed an even deadlier range and accuracy. The Power stone that amplifies this is CP3 who can PNR like a madman, breakdown defenses, and has a elite midrange to keep the defense honest. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
[QUOTE]On May 09 2018 11:01 zev318 wrote: [QUOTE]On May 09 2018 06:36 andrewlt wrote: Kawhi couldn't shoot when he got into the league. The Spurs had to teach him how to play offense. [/QUOTE] Do today's NBA coaches still do hand on training on player's shooting? I like to imagine that the system now is highly specialized and that there are hundreds of people focusing on one particular thing: movement, endurance, cardio, shooting, strength, defense, etc. etc. Should the coach still get credit for this, or should the player himself? | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qHgNB2V.png) KD has goat potential, but has such bad PR reps that his otherwise acceptable career decision has turned him into a punching bag. This is funny, but this is below the belt, and I feel bad for KD. | ||
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