EPThttp://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21263702/tristan-thompson-cleveland-cavaliers-likely-month
they experimented with Love at Center. i wonder what they'll do now.
maybe Cleveland can run their offense like Denver at put Love at Center as a playmaker
NBA Season 2017-2018 - Page 25
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21263702/tristan-thompson-cleveland-cavaliers-likely-month they experimented with Love at Center. i wonder what they'll do now. maybe Cleveland can run their offense like Denver at put Love at Center as a playmaker | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
Total Points Added... Offense on the horizontal axis and Defense on the vertical axis. Statistically, if you are above and to the right of the diagonal line you are contributing positively to the team. 6th overall pick Jonathan Isaac is their best defender. Their center Nikola Vucevic is their 2nd best defender. Bizmack Biyombo's claim to minutes is based on his defense. As long a Vucevic continues to defend well I don't see how Biyombo gets many minutes. Evan Fournier is 24 for 43 from 3. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/0YKyrny.jpg) | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Lebron has never been a skillful offensive threat in the likes of MJ or Kobe or even Durant now. Those guys can score from anywhere in the field (except Jordan on 3 consistently) and can manipulate the defense to their advantage. Lebron has always relied on his athleticism to be effective, and his only real scoring threat is to the hoop. The narrative has always been that Lebron makes his teammates better. I think this needs to be rephrased to: Lebron needs good teammates to be effective. Jordan and Kobe demand attention because they can literally score from anywhere, and the can carry their team to a championship with them as the main scoring option, and can even lead a team to championship on their own (I think even Snek Durant can do this, meme and all). Their passing is a result of their skillful assessment of defense, while in Lebrons case, his drive and kick is more of a program. Someone even brought up that Kobe is actually a better passer than Lebron. So now that Lebron is older, and teams had evolved such sophisticated defense, the usual Lebron-centered offense is not enough. Having old iso-guys around him don't help either. I am a Lebron fan, and would love to be proven wrong on this. To those who will bring up the Cavs 2016 championship, I have one word for you: 3rd-Eye-Ky! | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
On November 03 2017 09:37 cLutZ wrote: See, I dont really agree. I think Lebron is the best ever at making bad teams look good, but he is like a vampire to other really good players on his team: Bosh, i can only comment on Bosh because that is the only guy i've watched a lot before and after LBJ. Bosh's level of play remained the same... LBJ took away box score stats from Bosh. that's it. Bosh still played well and contributed substantially to the Heat's success. for Bosh to move from Toronto to any championship contender in 2010 he'd have to give up some boxscore stats. In 2010 he was not good enough to be a top option on a championship contending team. I wouldn't put that on LBJ being a vampire. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On November 03 2017 09:37 cLutZ wrote: See, I dont really agree. I think Lebron is the best ever at making bad teams look good, but he is like a vampire to other really good players on his team: Boozer, Ilgauskas, Bosh, Wade, Love, Kyrie, etc. What he actually "needs" is a certain subset of teammates which really just means floor spacing. The problem is most floor spacers suck at defense and off the dribble. If you are a floor spacer that does either of the other 2 you are an all-star. I can go with that, "a vampire to other really good players on his team". And it is getting exposed more and more that he is losing his athleticism and has never developed good perimeter shot and low post game. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 03 2017 09:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Its hilarious watching Steve "mr happy" Kerr drop multiple f-bombs. i can only comment on Bosh because that is the only guy i've watched a lot before and after LBJ. Bosh's level of play remained the same... LBJ took away box score stats from Bosh. that's it. Bosh still played well and contributed substantially to the Heat's success. for Bosh to move from Toronto to any championship contender in 2010 he'd have to give up some boxscore stats. In 2010 he was not good enough to be a top option on a championship contending team. I wouldn't put that on LBJ being a vampire. It can be true that he was the Heat's 3rd best player and significantly contributed, while also being true that he did not play at the level he did in Toronto (box score aside). His ability as a rebounder went down significantly the longer he was in Miami, his ability to generate offense for teammates from the low post also declined. We need to be clear, had Lebron stayed in CLE, and Bosh/Wade had teamed up in MIA and instead of James had signed a decent wing like Iso Joe, Rudy Gay, or got any real PG, they would have been overwhelming Eastern Conference favorites. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
On November 03 2017 13:14 cLutZ wrote: his ability to generate offense for teammates from the low post also declined. yep. i think Toronto wanted almost everything running thru Bosh. In Miami, very few plays ( if any? ) were designed to feature Bosh's abilities with the ball in his hands. On November 03 2017 13:14 cLutZ wrote: We need to be clear, had Lebron stayed in CLE, and Bosh/Wade had teamed up in MIA and instead of James had signed a decent wing like Iso Joe, Rudy Gay, or got any real PG, they would have been overwhelming Eastern Conference favorites. i'm not sure about every year LBJ was in Miami, but i'd say that in LBJ's 1st year in 2010-2011 that Boston and Chicago were good enough that the kind of Miami team u r talking about would not be an overwhelming favourite. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On November 03 2017 13:14 cLutZ wrote: It can be true that he was the Heat's 3rd best player and significantly contributed, while also being true that he did not play at the level he did in Toronto (box score aside). His ability as a rebounder went down significantly the longer he was in Miami, his ability to generate offense for teammates from the low post also declined. We need to be clear, had Lebron stayed in CLE, and Bosh/Wade had teamed up in MIA and instead of James had signed a decent wing like Iso Joe, Rudy Gay, or got any real PG, they would have been overwhelming Eastern Conference favorites. So true. even without lbj and just with a good pg or wing player, Heat would have won that conference finals | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 03 2017 14:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote: yep. i think Toronto wanted almost everything running thru Bosh. In Miami, very few plays ( if any? ) were designed to feature Bosh's abilities with the ball in his hands. i'm not sure about every year LBJ was in Miami, but i'd say that in LBJ's 1st year in 2010-2011 that Boston and Chicago were good enough that the kind of Miami team u r talking about would not be an overwhelming favourite. Maybe Boston, but as much as I am a Chicago homer we always had playoff issues. The other thing is that, imo in year 1 the hypothetical nob-Lebron heat might have actually been better, because him and Wade didn't really work until after the lockout. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On November 03 2017 16:05 cLutZ wrote: Maybe Boston, but as much as I am a Chicago homer we always had playoff issues. The other thing is that, imo in year 1 the hypothetical nob-Lebron heat might have actually been better, because him and Wade didn't really work until after the lockout. And LBJ had more support then | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On November 03 2017 02:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [...] maybe Cleveland can run their offense like Denver at put Love at Center as a playmaker That's what I've wished they would try for like 2 years. For me Love is underrated offensively, he's a really skilled passer too. Problem is that right now, when they dump the ball to him in the post, it's just to let Lebron rest for a possession. Everybody else stands around the 3pt line doing nothing, instead of running some action to free up shooters or cutters. I'm convinced you would see nice things from Love in these situations. A la Draymond, but Love can actually also score himself because he has nice shooting touch out of the post. But well, the Cavs' first problem is their defense, as usual. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
As for Lebron, I think part of the problem is that Cavs management and coaching hasn't really been great. Put him with a Klay Thompson and a bunch of Danny Greens and that team will just wreck the NBA. They've never found or coached up guys who can really complement his game. There's no one close to a Kawhi Leonard who started with no offense but was coached up to be a great offensive player. Even a poor man's version would do wonders next to Lebron. He doesn't do well with ball dominant players but does really well with catch and shoot players and good cutters. That's why Bosh was a great pairing in Miami. Bosh was always the underrated part of that team. He lessened his offensive load in exchange for anchoring the defense. On offense, he was a great spot up shooter for Lebron to pass to. Lebron may not be as versatile as Jordan or Kobe on scoring but he is really, really, really good at what he does. For all the faults in his game, he still has 3 rings. He just never had a coach who can force him to learn how to play off the ball the way the Warriors did with Durant last year. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
Westbrook is flying tonight. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On November 04 2017 00:15 andrewlt wrote: I fucking love the new timeout rules. It's early, I know, but my initial impressions are very positive. As for Lebron, I think part of the problem is that Cavs management and coaching hasn't really been great. Put him with a Klay Thompson and a bunch of Danny Greens and that team will just wreck the NBA. They've never found or coached up guys who can really complement his game. There's no one close to a Kawhi Leonard who started with no offense but was coached up to be a great offensive player. Even a poor man's version would do wonders next to Lebron. He doesn't do well with ball dominant players but does really well with catch and shoot players and good cutters. That's why Bosh was a great pairing in Miami. Bosh was always the underrated part of that team. He lessened his offensive load in exchange for anchoring the defense. On offense, he was a great spot up shooter for Lebron to pass to. Lebron may not be as versatile as Jordan or Kobe on scoring but he is really, really, really good at what he does. For all the faults in his game, he still has 3 rings. He just never had a coach who can force him to learn how to play off the ball the way the Warriors did with Durant last year. My problem with "he is good at what he does" is that it is a vague attempt at discussing comparisons among great players. We could say the same thing to Horry, Rodman, 2016 TT, Iguodala, and we get nowhere. Anyway, would you say he is GOAT or at least GOAT candidate? | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On November 04 2017 11:00 JimmiC wrote: Holy shit, LBJ stuffed that stat sheet tonight! No way he was losing this game. Beast LBJ! Showing Wall and the Wizards who's daddy in the East. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/QxoIwvI.png) | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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