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2017 - 2018 Football Thread - Page 83

Forum Index > Sports
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New Season Thread Is Up!!!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sports/535996-2018-2019-football-thread
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
October 02 2017 20:36 GMT
#1641
On October 03 2017 01:55 Pr0wler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 00:49 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Doesn't necessarily block a goal, so the yellow is fine, no?

To me, that's one of those legitimate 50/50 calls. The ball hits the borderline area of where it's permissible for the ball to hit. To some, it's not a penalty, to others it is. Me, I'm fine with him going either way. And sure, there will still be some controversial decisions with regard to those incidents. Stuff like tackling and hitting the ball but also taking the player, that's also sometimes going to be interpreted as okay and sometimes not. I also don't care if the referee gets an offside call wrongly if I'm only able to see that it's wrong because on the third replay viewing I can see the guy was actually 3 cm onside.

The point with VAR as far as I'm concerned is to remove all the blatantly wrong calls. If there are still some controversial ones because people just can't agree whether the referee got it right, even with replay assistance, then that's still much better than there being some controversies due to the referee getting it wrong and everyone plainly seeing it was wrong.

And meanwhile we lose 2-3 minutes of game time every time the referee is looking at a replay of situation that is 50/50 and most people will be OK either way. I don't know another sport where the clock is running while the referee is staring at a screen, trying to find the slightest evidence of him not being wrong.
When they implement it properly, maybe, now it's a waste of time.


It works very well in the Bundesliga.

I still can't believe that there are people against VAR. The Champions League looks like a joke compared to watching the Bundesliga now. Watching wrong calls blatantly influence the outcome of a match just kills my desire to watch a CL match.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
haitike
Profile Joined June 2009
Spain2742 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 21:54:11
October 02 2017 21:53 GMT
#1642
Of course VAR will fail sometimes, nothing is perfect. But most of the times it will fix an error. And VAR is better than what we have in CL for helping referees, nothing.

I think the Bundesliga implementation is in the right path.
Deleted User 26513
Profile Joined February 2007
2376 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 22:04:32
October 02 2017 22:00 GMT
#1643
On October 03 2017 04:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
prowler, they already lose game time every time there's a controversial decision. VAR is for situations that impact the end result; goals, penalties, red cards. All of those already cause play stoppage. Maybe it's one minute more. The solution to that, imo, is clearly to add more extra time. Pretty damn easy tbh.

Or you know, and I know that I'm saying a blasphemy according to some people, stop the damn clock... Also the referee reviewing his own decision is like an accountant auditing his own books. Extremely dumb. They can just take the two scarecrows from the end lines and put them in a room with monitors to review the decisions of the referee.
BTW before we had people that argued for goals, penalties, red cards etc. Now we have people that do the same, but also another group of people that argue against their goal, penalty or whatever being disallowed by the VAR... And also a ref staring at a screen.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 02 2017 22:10 GMT
#1644


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
N1E
Profile Blog Joined February 2017
Brazil186 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 22:48:47
October 02 2017 22:33 GMT
#1645
And meanwhile we lose 2-3 minutes of game time every time the referee is looking at a replay of situation that is 50/50 and most people will be OK either way.

I doubt there are many 50/50 situations, if any. There's a reason for a set of rules that referees are paid to know and apply. And those 2-3 minutes clearly display the low quality of the organization, which doesn't make sense considering the amount of money that rolls in football. Ah, nevermind, it's this very same money that prevents a proper VAR from being properly used. A referee should only run to stare at a screen in the last case. What exactly prevents the video from being shown in the big screen, and the referee to judge from there (in these extreme cases) anyway?
There are prepared referees behind the video replays as well, what prevents them from telling the referee to change a certain decision (and themselves take responsability, of course)? Nothing.

Oh yea, because then they couldn't manipulate results...
nayumi
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia6499 Posts
October 03 2017 00:17 GMT
#1646
On October 03 2017 01:12 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 00:49 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Doesn't necessarily block a goal, so the yellow is fine, no?

To me, that's one of those legitimate 50/50 calls. The ball hits the borderline area of where it's permissible for the ball to hit. To some, it's not a penalty, to others it is. Me, I'm fine with him going either way. And sure, there will still be some controversial decisions with regard to those incidents. Stuff like tackling and hitting the ball but also taking the player, that's also sometimes going to be interpreted as okay and sometimes not. I also don't care if the referee gets an offside call wrongly if I'm only able to see that it's wrong because on the third replay viewing I can see the guy was actually 3 cm onside.

The point with VAR as far as I'm concerned is to remove all the blatantly wrong calls. If there are still some controversial ones because people just can't agree whether the referee got it right, even with replay assistance, then that's still much better than there being some controversies due to the referee getting it wrong and everyone plainly seeing it was wrong.


Yeah pretty sure if it doesnt deny a clear goal a deliberate handball is a yellow.


Also specifically about the offiside, I am a bit iffy on borderline offisides personally. Ive always preferred the idea that where peoples feet are should determine it rather than the body, but since you can use the body to score it kinda makes sense if you lean offside you get called out. Still bugs me though.

I'm in favour of if it's borderline, award the goal
Sugoi monogatari onii-chan!
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-03 10:09:16
October 03 2017 10:03 GMT
#1647
On October 03 2017 07:00 Pr0wler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 04:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
prowler, they already lose game time every time there's a controversial decision. VAR is for situations that impact the end result; goals, penalties, red cards. All of those already cause play stoppage. Maybe it's one minute more. The solution to that, imo, is clearly to add more extra time. Pretty damn easy tbh.

Or you know, and I know that I'm saying a blasphemy according to some people, stop the damn clock... Also the referee reviewing his own decision is like an accountant auditing his own books. Extremely dumb. They can just take the two scarecrows from the end lines and put them in a room with monitors to review the decisions of the referee.
BTW before we had people that argued for goals, penalties, red cards etc. Now we have people that do the same, but also another group of people that argue against their goal, penalty or whatever being disallowed by the VAR... And also a ref staring at a screen.

They just let the game play longer, same thing as stopping the clock.

I think reviewing his own decision makes sense because you see so much more with different camera angles, multiple repeats and slow motion. Very frequent source of ref mistakes is that they do not have the right angle to judge a situation. But I also think it is somewhat disruptive to the game flow when he runs to the monitor. I prefer if he just follows the advice of the video ref which is what happened most often in BuLi VAR.

Btw I think VAR has been right 100% of the time so far in BuLi (maybe some stuff borderline?) and changed the outcome of several games to a fairer one.

It is funny you mention the discussions because one of the most frequently used points of people that are against VAR is that these ref discussions are part of football and make the game more exciting. I disagree but it seems we are not getting rid of those even with VAR. :D


edit:
I want to mention another big advantage of VAR. It makes diving way less rewarding and although it is hard to quantify I think there is already a big reduction in dives in BuLi. And I can not recall a single instance were someone pretended to be punched to bait a red card.
Off-season = best season
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
October 03 2017 10:12 GMT
#1648
On October 03 2017 19:03 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 07:00 Pr0wler wrote:
On October 03 2017 04:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
prowler, they already lose game time every time there's a controversial decision. VAR is for situations that impact the end result; goals, penalties, red cards. All of those already cause play stoppage. Maybe it's one minute more. The solution to that, imo, is clearly to add more extra time. Pretty damn easy tbh.

Or you know, and I know that I'm saying a blasphemy according to some people, stop the damn clock... Also the referee reviewing his own decision is like an accountant auditing his own books. Extremely dumb. They can just take the two scarecrows from the end lines and put them in a room with monitors to review the decisions of the referee.
BTW before we had people that argued for goals, penalties, red cards etc. Now we have people that do the same, but also another group of people that argue against their goal, penalty or whatever being disallowed by the VAR... And also a ref staring at a screen.

They just let the game play longer, same thing as stopping the clock.

I think reviewing his own decision makes sense because you see so much more with different camera angles, multiple repeats and slow motion. Very frequent source of ref mistakes is that they do not have the right angle to judge a situation. But I also think it is somewhat disruptive to the game flow when he runs to the monitor. I prefer if he just follows the advice of the video ref which is what happened most often in BuLi VAR.

Btw I think VAR has been right 100% of the time so far in BuLi (maybe some stuff borderline?) and changed the outcome of several games to a fairer one.

It is funny you mention the discussions because one of the most frequently used points of people that are against VAR is that these ref discussions are part of football and make the game more exciting. I disagree but it seems we are not getting rid of those even with VAR. :D


edit:
I want to mention another big advantage of VAR. It makes diving way less rewarding and although it is hard to quantify I think there is already a big reduction in dives in BuLi. And I can not recall a single instance were someone pretended to be punched to bait a red card.


the pretending to be punched happened on playday1 or 2. They learned it quickly.

And well. Köln vs Dortmund had the VAR incident, where VAR was used wrongly. But except for that.... it dramatically cut into ref mistakes and certainly has been an big improvement over everything we had previously.
Also now that the routines are more fluent it is getting better and better.

They now just have to yellow card also those sissies complaining and demanding VAR every 30 seconds and things will be really good.
sneirac
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany3464 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-03 10:14:59
October 03 2017 10:14 GMT
#1649
On October 03 2017 19:12 mahrgell wrote:
They now just have to yellow card also those sissies complaining and demanding VAR every 30 seconds and things will be really good.

I don't get why they haven't been doing that from the beginning, that was in the official FIFA introduction from 2 years ago.
possession wins games, kante is washed up and shit - pande
Ysellian
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands9029 Posts
October 03 2017 10:26 GMT
#1650
On October 02 2017 15:44 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2017 13:56 Dante08 wrote:
Ox must be the unluckiest or stupidest transfer in recent history. Turns down 180k a week at Arsenal where he most likely would be a starter, turns down Chelsea because he doesn't want to play wing-back, goes to Liverpool where he doesn't start, and gets subbed on as a winger lol! Also since he joined Liverpool 1 win in last 6 games or something and Arsenal on a good winning run.


Stupid. At Arsenal he was loved. Did he really expect to get CAM role at Liverpool?


Some players are just crazy deluded about their own ability.
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18712 Posts
October 03 2017 10:35 GMT
#1651
On October 03 2017 19:03 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 07:00 Pr0wler wrote:
On October 03 2017 04:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
prowler, they already lose game time every time there's a controversial decision. VAR is for situations that impact the end result; goals, penalties, red cards. All of those already cause play stoppage. Maybe it's one minute more. The solution to that, imo, is clearly to add more extra time. Pretty damn easy tbh.

Or you know, and I know that I'm saying a blasphemy according to some people, stop the damn clock... Also the referee reviewing his own decision is like an accountant auditing his own books. Extremely dumb. They can just take the two scarecrows from the end lines and put them in a room with monitors to review the decisions of the referee.
BTW before we had people that argued for goals, penalties, red cards etc. Now we have people that do the same, but also another group of people that argue against their goal, penalty or whatever being disallowed by the VAR... And also a ref staring at a screen.

They just let the game play longer, same thing as stopping the clock.

I think reviewing his own decision makes sense because you see so much more with different camera angles, multiple repeats and slow motion. Very frequent source of ref mistakes is that they do not have the right angle to judge a situation. But I also think it is somewhat disruptive to the game flow when he runs to the monitor. I prefer if he just follows the advice of the video ref which is what happened most often in BuLi VAR.

Btw I think VAR has been right 100% of the time so far in BuLi (maybe some stuff borderline?) and changed the outcome of several games to a fairer one.

It is funny you mention the discussions because one of the most frequently used points of people that are against VAR is that these ref discussions are part of football and make the game more exciting. I disagree but it seems we are not getting rid of those even with VAR. :D


edit:
I want to mention another big advantage of VAR. It makes diving way less rewarding and although it is hard to quantify I think there is already a big reduction in dives in BuLi. And I can not recall a single instance were someone pretended to be punched to bait a red card.


Unfortunately stopping the clock and letting the game play longer is not the same thing.
This Juve game must have had at least 6min of stoppage time if they had followed the rule.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
October 03 2017 10:59 GMT
#1652
On October 03 2017 19:35 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 19:03 Redox wrote:
On October 03 2017 07:00 Pr0wler wrote:
On October 03 2017 04:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
prowler, they already lose game time every time there's a controversial decision. VAR is for situations that impact the end result; goals, penalties, red cards. All of those already cause play stoppage. Maybe it's one minute more. The solution to that, imo, is clearly to add more extra time. Pretty damn easy tbh.

Or you know, and I know that I'm saying a blasphemy according to some people, stop the damn clock... Also the referee reviewing his own decision is like an accountant auditing his own books. Extremely dumb. They can just take the two scarecrows from the end lines and put them in a room with monitors to review the decisions of the referee.
BTW before we had people that argued for goals, penalties, red cards etc. Now we have people that do the same, but also another group of people that argue against their goal, penalty or whatever being disallowed by the VAR... And also a ref staring at a screen.

They just let the game play longer, same thing as stopping the clock.

I think reviewing his own decision makes sense because you see so much more with different camera angles, multiple repeats and slow motion. Very frequent source of ref mistakes is that they do not have the right angle to judge a situation. But I also think it is somewhat disruptive to the game flow when he runs to the monitor. I prefer if he just follows the advice of the video ref which is what happened most often in BuLi VAR.

Btw I think VAR has been right 100% of the time so far in BuLi (maybe some stuff borderline?) and changed the outcome of several games to a fairer one.

It is funny you mention the discussions because one of the most frequently used points of people that are against VAR is that these ref discussions are part of football and make the game more exciting. I disagree but it seems we are not getting rid of those even with VAR. :D


edit:
I want to mention another big advantage of VAR. It makes diving way less rewarding and although it is hard to quantify I think there is already a big reduction in dives in BuLi. And I can not recall a single instance were someone pretended to be punched to bait a red card.


Unfortunately stopping the clock and letting the game play longer is not the same thing.
This Juve game must have had at least 6min of stoppage time if they had followed the rule.

These things always seems way longer than they actually are though. The whole VAR review from when he got the call and ran over to decision took 1:15. The overall time from free kick to penalty was 2:10. But this one was ridiculously long.
Off-season = best season
Espers
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom606 Posts
October 04 2017 11:41 GMT
#1653
https://streamable.com/e5q00
ddawww
Mafe
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany5966 Posts
October 04 2017 11:48 GMT
#1654
Some interesting, and more importantly, surprinsingly sensible FIFA-"news" (It's actually almost three week sold but I havent seen it reported anywhere):
http://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/news/y=2017/m=9/news=oc-for-fifa-competitions-approves-procedures-for-the-final-draw-of-the-2907924.html
For the 2018 world cup, seeding according to the world rankings will be applied to all four pots. Remember, until now the world cups had one pot of seeded teams while the remaining three pots were based on confederations, something which in particular our US-american football fans didnt like. This time the USA would most likely be a third seed, that is, if they qualify at all.
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18712 Posts
October 04 2017 12:43 GMT
#1655
Wow, Marc Janko has publicly criticised the Austrian football league bosses how they treated Marcel Koller.
I have rarely seen a player criticise the board so openly after a coach was dismissed. Huge props to him!
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
October 04 2017 13:20 GMT
#1656
Tuchel 90% Bayern next manager?
Pep is big fan of Tuchel and told Bayern chief he should get the job. Now Hoeness has come out saying Pep knows who the next manager will be?
1+1=4? xD
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
October 04 2017 13:44 GMT
#1657
On October 03 2017 09:17 nayumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 01:12 Rebs wrote:
On October 03 2017 00:49 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Doesn't necessarily block a goal, so the yellow is fine, no?

To me, that's one of those legitimate 50/50 calls. The ball hits the borderline area of where it's permissible for the ball to hit. To some, it's not a penalty, to others it is. Me, I'm fine with him going either way. And sure, there will still be some controversial decisions with regard to those incidents. Stuff like tackling and hitting the ball but also taking the player, that's also sometimes going to be interpreted as okay and sometimes not. I also don't care if the referee gets an offside call wrongly if I'm only able to see that it's wrong because on the third replay viewing I can see the guy was actually 3 cm onside.

The point with VAR as far as I'm concerned is to remove all the blatantly wrong calls. If there are still some controversial ones because people just can't agree whether the referee got it right, even with replay assistance, then that's still much better than there being some controversies due to the referee getting it wrong and everyone plainly seeing it was wrong.


Yeah pretty sure if it doesnt deny a clear goal a deliberate handball is a yellow.


Also specifically about the offiside, I am a bit iffy on borderline offisides personally. Ive always preferred the idea that where peoples feet are should determine it rather than the body, but since you can use the body to score it kinda makes sense if you lean offside you get called out. Still bugs me though.

I'm in favour of if it's borderline, award the goal


Yeah me to..
Mafe
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany5966 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-04 15:40:54
October 04 2017 15:36 GMT
#1658
I just received a whatsapp massage with a picture of the new bayern manager..... it feels wrong.
NVM on closer inpsection its probably a photoshop.
edit: I definitely fell for a photoshop. And it didnt even make sense, as I confused a politician with a football manager.... Stupid me.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
October 04 2017 15:38 GMT
#1659
Is it Tuchel?
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55589 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-04 16:08:32
October 04 2017 16:00 GMT
#1660
On October 04 2017 22:20 Pandemona wrote:
Tuchel 90% Bayern next manager?
Pep is big fan of Tuchel and told Bayern chief he should get the job. Now Hoeness has come out saying Pep knows who the next manager will be?
1+1=4? xD

It's almost certainly Tuchel. The only alternative German media are taking semi-seriously at this point is Luis Enrique, but he doesn't speak any German so he's far less likely.

It appears Bayern don't have the patience to wait a year for Nagelsmann.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
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