EPTTeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 - Page 185
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 20 2017 08:24 FFGenerations wrote: L_master you slovenly welp  | ||
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
Opened with a 385 squat, which is technically a PR on its own, but I've also hit 370 for 4 previously so I was quite sure I had it. Anyway, that was easy and I moved on to a 415 (which was 4 plates, since I was using a 55lb squat bar.) Didn't think I had it, and actually lost my air at the bottom, and still managed to grind it out, so I went for 445, but I descended too fast and came forward. I think I have the strength for that one, I would just need to get some practice with singles (but I dont think I'll be doing much of that anytime soon - I'm not signed up for a real meat atm so I'm more interested in building strength than testing it.) Moved on to bench which is my worst lift by FAR. Opened with 240, which I can usually hit for a triple, maybe more on a good day with a spotter that I trust. That was easy. Moved up to 260 which ties my PR according to my phone app. Came up slow off my chest and didn't make it. Moved to 270 anyway because fuck yeah PR's, got my leg drive down and hit it cleanly. Feeling a bit stiff by this point, the group of us had been lifting a bit over two hours including warm ups, but on we went to deadlifts. Interestingly of the guys I was lifting with, three of them were under 5'7 and they all pull sumo, and those of us over 6'4 both pull conventional. Thought that was neat. Anyway, opened at 405 because I was feeling a bit worn out and it's been about two months since I last deadlifted (i'm in a hypertrophy block at the moment and I've been focusing on back squat, box squat, and stiff legs for sets of 8-15) Fresh I've hit 400 for 7 previously. 405 went up easily. second attempt at 455 went up, Not easy, but clean, then as soon as I set it back down I got dizzy and a buddy had to help me off the platform to sit down for a minute. Loaded up 505 after that because I thought I might have had it on a good day, and I wanted the 1200 total it would have given me (would have had it easy if I hadn't missed my third squat  ) and broke the ground but couldn't pull it past mid-shin, which is weird because my deadlift has always been "if it comes off the floor, I can lock it out" so maybe the extra quad/glute work is finally paying off.All in all I went 6/9 and hit 2 "technically PRs" in that they were equal to or lower than my calculated maxes, but I've never actually put them up in real life, and one real PR (the 280 bench.) Totalled 1150 which I'm a bit disappointed by, at a bodyweight of 211 lbs at 6'4 (522.7kg at 96kg 193cm for the metric guys here) I'm still enjoying my current workouts, and it's clearly working because I'm hitting weights decently easily that should be tough for me, but now I'm excited to be out of this volume/bodybuilding/hypertrophy/whatever you want to call it routine to put the strength I've built to use and chase down something like 495/350/585. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Can only dream of those numbers right now, but everyone's gotta start somewhere. Which I guess leads me to a question...what are common breakdowns/splits for those training powerlifting. I've been more or less following SS, but I have to admit it has very, very little deadlifting...which is a problem for me because I like the lift, and it's also the one giving me problems right now. Form isn't quite right and my back comes out of it a little questionable, but only deadlifting a single set a few times a week doesn't seem to be enough. Not to mention it would get a little overwhelming if I did squat, bench, DL, and maybe some rows/weighted chins. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
As has been documented in early renditions, I have a dislike of long distance running. It's just something really skinny people do. I know this is an oft asked question, but I'm trying to ramp up a lifting phase, but I really need to lose some weight. I know I can't really do Keto while lifting. Should I just try to minimize the sugar? Should I try to maximize volume? | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
On October 27 2017 14:45 L_Master wrote: Nice work! I don't know exactly how powerlifting works, but I assuming if it's anything like endurance training is if you're working hard on less specific fitness building a better base you're top end performance might be great but once you go back down to the more specific work you're able to move up to a new level. The hypertrophy work sounds similar to that. Can only dream of those numbers right now, but everyone's gotta start somewhere. Which I guess leads me to a question...what are common breakdowns/splits for those training powerlifting. I've been more or less following SS, but I have to admit it has very, very little deadlifting...which is a problem for me because I like the lift, and it's also the one giving me problems right now. Form isn't quite right and my back comes out of it a little questionable, but only deadlifting a single set a few times a week doesn't seem to be enough. Not to mention it would get a little overwhelming if I did squat, bench, DL, and maybe some rows/weighted chins. Me setting PRs in a hypertrophy block is a little bit like an runner training for his first half marathon and seeing his 10k time go down if that gives you context. Maybe not that extreme because I've also gone up in bodyweight but that's the general idea. For intermediate routines a good starting point is to look at 5/3/1 and all it's variations. The thing about intermediate programs is that they're more a template that you pick and choose pieces to than they are a prescription that you follow. Spend some time in Reddit's r/powerlifting. I'm currently using a gzcl program which again, is for an intermediate and is highly customizable. I most recently did a "strength block" from about the middle of march through the end of August, and have been in this hypertrophy block since the start of September, it's supposed to last until the end of November at which point I'll go back to strength focus and pick a date for a meet. On October 27 2017 19:26 Jerubaal wrote: Why is that so? And how would that lead to injury? Increasing strength requires you to either 1) build muscle or 2) become more neurologically efficient at using the muscle you have. 2 is a very VERY slow process in anyone who is not a beginner. 1 requires that you break down muscle tissue and build it back up - building it back up requires that you eat at a calorie surplus in addition to other good habits. Calorie surpluses mean weight gain, not loss. Trying to build muscle and lose weight at the same time is at best (read: with steroids) difficult and at worst (without steroids) a complete waste of time. As for your previous post, there's nothing wrong with Leto while lifting. You'll take an initial performance hit from the lack of carbs and lose some strength, but that will stabilize as you get used to the diet and you'll get that performance back if/when you do carb back up. Anyway, my suggestion is that you eat around maintenance calories and try to build some muscle, then cut at a later date (usually in time for summer, maybe start around April?) but that's coming from partially my bias of always having been the skinny guy and a rugby player/powerlifter, I would prefer the extra muscle mass with accompanying fat than less fat with less muscle under it. | ||
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farvacola
United States18828 Posts
 What does "ramp up a lifting phase" mean? Do you want to get stronger, bigger, or maintain? Osmoses is right in the general sense and that's why the vast majority of folks adhere to a bulk/cut cycle; getting stronger on a caloric deficit isn't impossible, but it's much more difficult and without caloric excesses and lots of dietary fats, the chance of injury increases as the joints start to dry out. That's one among many reasons most of the strongest powerlifters tend to maintain a higher BF than their figure/fitness equivalents. Edit: phyre's got the right idea. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On October 27 2017 05:18 phyre112 wrote: Did a mock meet the other day with some buddies. Opened with a 385 squat, which is technically a PR on its own, but I've also hit 370 for 4 previously so I was quite sure I had it. Anyway, that was easy and I moved on to a 415 (which was 4 plates, since I was using a 55lb squat bar.) Didn't think I had it, and actually lost my air at the bottom, and still managed to grind it out, so I went for 445, but I descended too fast and came forward. I think I have the strength for that one, I would just need to get some practice with singles (but I dont think I'll be doing much of that anytime soon - I'm not signed up for a real meat atm so I'm more interested in building strength than testing it.) Moved on to bench which is my worst lift by FAR. Opened with 240, which I can usually hit for a triple, maybe more on a good day with a spotter that I trust. That was easy. Moved up to 270 which ties my PR according to my phone app. Came up slow off my chest and didn't make it. Moved to 280 anyway because fuck yeah PR's, got my leg drive down and hit it cleanly. Feeling a bit stiff by this point, the group of us had been lifting a bit over two hours including warm ups, but on we went to deadlifts. Interestingly of the guys I was lifting with, three of them were under 5'7 and they all pull sumo, and those of us over 6'4 both pull conventional. Thought that was neat. Anyway, opened at 405 because I was feeling a bit worn out and it's been about two months since I last deadlifted (i'm in a hypertrophy block at the moment and I've been focusing on back squat, box squat, and stiff legs for sets of 8-15) Fresh I've hit 400 for 7 previously. 405 went up easily. second attempt at 455 went up, Not easy, but clean, then as soon as I set it back down I got dizzy and a buddy had to help me off the platform to sit down for a minute. Loaded up 505 after that because I thought I might have had it on a good day, and I wanted the 1200 total it would have given me (would have had it easy if I hadn't missed my third squat ) and broke the ground but couldn't pull it past mid-shin, which is weird because my deadlift has always been "if it comes off the floor, I can lock it out" so maybe the extra quad/glute work is finally paying off.All in all I went 6/9 and hit 2 "technically PRs" in that they were equal to or lower than my calculated maxes, but I've never actually put them up in real life, and one real PR (the 280 bench.) Totalled 1150 which I'm a bit disappointed by, at a bodyweight of 211 lbs at 6'4 (522.7kg at 96kg 193cm for the metric guys here) I'm still enjoying my current workouts, and it's clearly working because I'm hitting weights decently easily that should be tough for me, but now I'm excited to be out of this volume/bodybuilding/hypertrophy/whatever you want to call it routine to put the strength I've built to use and chase down something like 495/350/585. Those are decent numbers at 211 lbs for a person who is 6'4". Nice work. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On October 27 2017 19:44 farvacola wrote: What does "ramp up a lifting phase" mean? Do you want to get stronger, bigger, or maintain? Osmoses is right in the general sense and that's why the vast majority of folks adhere to a bulk/cut cycle; getting stronger on a caloric deficit isn't impossible, but it's much more difficult and without caloric excesses and lots of dietary fats, the chance of injury increases as the joints start to dry out. That's one among many reasons most of the strongest powerlifters tend to maintain a higher BF than their figure/fitness equivalents. Edit: phyre's got the right idea. While I am coming off of a bit of a hiatus, I have lifted with my current standard program for good cycles with little effect. I have the options of increasing my work, decreasing my intake or drastically lowering my intake while stopping lifting. I would prefer to keep lifting. I like this sort of choice decision analysis because it requires me to analyze the implications of my theories. I think I'll start with the half-measure of cutting out as much sugar as I can from my diet. If that doesn't have a noticeable effect, I might start lifting 5 times a week. I don't seem to be able to handle much volume (lifting too much always made me nauseated), so I don't think I'm in much risk of overdoing it. I take it from your responses that you are not using the caloric balance model? I ask because my previous polemics against it were not particularly embraced, but it seems like you should be able to lose weight while lifting on that model. I'm guessing you think insulin or some other anabolic hormone related to diet is necessary to progress while lifting. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 28 2017 02:56 Jerubaal wrote: While I am coming off of a bit of a hiatus, I have lifted with my current standard program for good cycles with little effect. I have the options of increasing my work, decreasing my intake or drastically lowering my intake while stopping lifting. I would prefer to keep lifting. I like this sort of choice decision analysis because it requires me to analyze the implications of my theories. I think I'll start with the half-measure of cutting out as much sugar as I can from my diet. If that doesn't have a noticeable effect, I might start lifting 5 times a week. I don't seem to be able to handle much volume (lifting too much always made me nauseated), so I don't think I'm in much risk of overdoing it. I take it from your responses that you are not using the caloric balance model? I ask because my previous polemics against it were not particularly embraced, but it seems like you should be able to lose weight while lifting on that model. I'm guessing you think insulin or some other anabolic hormone related to diet is necessary to progress while lifting. As far as I know you would absolutely want to keep lifting, doing so is still then putting a stimulus on your body to maintain/grow muscle mass. Without this you're likely to lose a higher portion of muscle and a lower portion of fat while dropping weight. If you eat and exercise relatively consistently and your weight is currently maintaining then cutting out some sugar will cause you to start to drop weight. How much will depend on the amount of sugar you cut from the diet. but it seems like you should be able to lose weight while lifting on that model. Obviously you can lose weight while lifting, just imagine if you went to the gym each day while not eating anything. You're lifting, you're losing weight. That seems quite obvious though, so I'm thinking your asking something else here? While I am coming off of a bit of a hiatus, I have lifted with my current standard program for good cycles with little effect. Again, a little confused. You said you've had good cycles but with little effect; that seems like an oxymoron to me. If my fitness (or now strength numbers) didn't improve during the cycle that doesn't sound like a very good cycle to me. If you mean your numbers got better but weight didn't change...that's a function of calories. If you're eating at maintenance then weight isn't going to change. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
By "good cycle" I meant that I was lifting regularly, but it did not seem to affect my bodyfat. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 28 2017 05:59 Jerubaal wrote: If I understand you right, L_Master, you disagree with some of the above posters. I don't think so, no. Can you clarify where it sounds like I disagree? On October 28 2017 05:59 Jerubaal wrote: If I understand you right, L_Master, you disagree with some of the above posters. By "good cycle" I meant that I was lifting regularly, but it did not seem to affect my bodyfat. What were you doing with calories? Sounds like your weight likely remained about the same the entire time, which suggests you eating at maintenance. Noticeable changes in BF are very rare at maintenance because you're not gaining or losing weight, thus not gaining muscle or losing fat. Maintenance changes, if they happen, are usually minimal at best so it wouldn't surprise me that you saw little change. That said, if your numbers were going up, more often than not that's an indicator you're putting on muscle. There is also a range of BF where if you make small changes you don't really notice them. If you went from 16% BF to 14% BF...that's a change that's usually hard to notice. Maybe with really good progress pics, but even then can be hard to miss. On October 28 2017 05:59 Jerubaal wrote: As has been documented in early renditions, I have a dislike of long distance running. It's just something really skinny people do. I know this is an oft asked question, but I'm trying to ramp up a lifting phase, but I really need to lose some weight. I know I can't really do Keto while lifting. Should I just try to minimize the sugar? Should I try to maximize volume? While that isn't really true about distance running...I can understand the sentiment, and honestly if you're a bigger guy that doesn't have a huge aerobic base to draw from running does tend to suck; and can be harder on your body. Best option that comes to mind is cycling. Easy, simple; can do it on roads or trails anywhere and for most getting outside makes a huge difference. Main thing that needs to happen for weight loss is you need to create a caloric deficit. Cutting out sugar is a solid first step. If that doesn't bring quick enough weight loss, then add in 30-45 minutes on the bike a few times a week and you'll definitely start dropping weight as long as you don't change eating habits. You want to keep lifting to encourage muscle preservation, but increasing volume would (assuming weights work anything like I know from endurance side) be a huge mistake. In a deficit you'll have lessened recovery, which means if you increase the volume you're going to be unable to recovery and then start having shitty workouts with a ton of strain, but no stress on the body because you're not recovered enough to challenge what your body is capable of. So general idea for a deficit would be more or less sticking with your current program, with a possible reduction in volume if you find recovery isn't good enough (others can correct if I'm wrong, but this is what I know to be true from endurance side, and what I've generally read to be true from strength side). | ||
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farvacola
United States18828 Posts
 On October 28 2017 02:56 Jerubaal wrote: While I am coming off of a bit of a hiatus, I have lifted with my current standard program for good cycles with little effect. I have the options of increasing my work, decreasing my intake or drastically lowering my intake while stopping lifting. I would prefer to keep lifting. I like this sort of choice decision analysis because it requires me to analyze the implications of my theories. I think I'll start with the half-measure of cutting out as much sugar as I can from my diet. If that doesn't have a noticeable effect, I might start lifting 5 times a week. I don't seem to be able to handle much volume (lifting too much always made me nauseated), so I don't think I'm in much risk of overdoing it. I take it from your responses that you are not using the caloric balance model? I ask because my previous polemics against it were not particularly embraced, but it seems like you should be able to lose weight while lifting on that model. I'm guessing you think insulin or some other anabolic hormone related to diet is necessary to progress while lifting. I'm very much a proponent of "if it works for you, do it" as a general rule (so long as it does genuinely work) given that the majority of people have trouble getting exercise habits to snowball and become a part of one's daily (or every other) routine. Many of the most productive lifters I have worked with figure out a personal approach towards their movement(s) of choice complete with lifting routines that break rules, diets that flaunt recommendations, and an unusual ability to make great gains nonetheless (decaf fits this bill). There's even a really strong dude who posts here every so often who, starting around 5 years ago now, used to barrage me with all sorts of technique, programming, and nitty gritty diet questions. Basically once he said fuck it, I'm gonna train while keeping an eye on what he ate, he blew the fuck up and now he's gonna beat my DL numbers at some point and that's some bullshit. In a nutshell, don't eat garbage, try and eat not-garbage, and get in the gym and lift. The details and tricks on the margins of generalized advice are most effective when someone is already an intermediate-advanced athlete and they can get in the way of doing basic things like losing weight while retaining strength or gaining strength while putting on as little fat as possible. (I don't understand your reference to insulin, it's the primary endogenous anabolic hormone in humans and never leaves the blood unless your shit is fucked up?) | ||
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