EPT2015 UFC/MMA Discussion Thread - Page 82
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
hypeee | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23759 Posts
On January 09 2016 05:25 JimmiC wrote: So it's MCgoat vs Dos Anjos I think they hype train is in for a violent stop, but then again I bet on Aldo And Tate vs Holm Yawn, I think the UFC is praying for Tate, so they can have a huge money Ronda beat down of tate and the a rematch with Holm also for big money. If holm wins I'm not looking forward to seeing holm pick apart and destroy her again. I suspect a rematch will go differently, Rhonda won't try to out box her, whether that's enough to avoid enough damage to actually win is another story but I think we could expect her to look to take it to the ground right away. We didn't see much of anything of Holm on her back or even in Ronda's guard. I could see her giving up an armbar or something. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 09 2016 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote: I suspect a rematch will go differently, Rhonda won't try to out box her, whether that's enough to avoid enough damage to actually win is another story but I think we could expect her to look to take it to the ground right away. We didn't see much of anything of Holm on her back or even in Ronda's guard. I could see her giving up an armbar or something. When will people stop propping up this false narrative? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23759 Posts
On January 09 2016 06:05 wei2coolman wrote: When will people stop propping up this false narrative? It's not really a false narrative. Ronda went in there thinking she stood a chance on the feet and didn't switch to focusing on getting it to the ground until it was too late and she was already half out on her feet. Holm didn't show any weakness but that also wasn't Ronda's best strategic performance. She's gotten by on being physically dominant and Holm was the first opponent she's faced where the skill difference was actually enough to shut her down. Holm is one of the strongest people Ronda has faced too so I imagine that played a roll in escaping Ronda's takedown. If I were betting I'd put my money on Holm but I still think the rematch will look different and if Ronda gets in a dominant position on the ground early she could definitely get the win. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 09 2016 06:27 GreenHorizons wrote: It's not really a false narrative. Ronda went in there thinking she stood a chance on the feet and didn't switch to focusing on getting it to the ground until it was too late and she was already half out on her feet. Holm didn't show any weakness but that also wasn't Ronda's best strategic performance. She's gotten by on being physically dominant and Holm was the first opponent she's faced where the skill difference was actually enough to shut her down. Holm is one of the strongest people Ronda has faced too so I imagine that played a roll in escaping Ronda's takedown. If I were betting I'd put my money on Holm but I still think the rematch will look different and if Ronda gets in a dominant position on the ground early she could definitely get the win. Are people really this dense? O.o Ronda was actively grabbing for the clinch out of strikes, like she always does. We even saw a few tangle ups in the fight, of which Holm was able to shuck off. | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 09 2016 06:53 Hier wrote: People still think Ronda tried to outbox Holly? Just people who think false narratives are better than reality. | ||
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KrOeastbound
England59 Posts
On January 09 2016 06:53 Hier wrote: People still think Ronda tried to outbox Holly? I have no idea. When a female fight comes on in MMA I usually pop down the local shop for some more beers or do something equally as useful. McGoat vs dos Anjos tho. Crazy fight, but I would have preferred Conor to take down Cowboy or another top10 ranked guy at 155 first and have a build up to the big bout. | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
listening to joe rogan probably distorted your view of rondas elite striking | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23759 Posts
First Ronda should of came in with some sort of shot worked on for a takedown. But even without adding that to her game, she wasn't trying to clinch or take her down for the first minute, plus she was chasing (which is unnecessary when you're the champ). After the first minute it was already too late, she had eaten to much punishment already and Holm was plenty fresh so she had no problem escaping from Ronda's one half loopy attempt at keeping her down. No one's arguing Ronda didn't go back to trying to clinch and take her down but the first minute or so where she put no effort into it and stood and tried to trade was enough for Holm to knock her loopy enough to easily escape when she did finally get a hold of her. EDIT: I Imagine as a trainer once (if) you get over the depression of your fighter it's a lot easier to get them to listen to you when you tell them they need to learn how to do something better. Clearly she needs some better takedown techniques but Holm looked like she desperately wanted to avoid the ground and if she was there the fight could go Ronda's way. But she can't be fooled into thinking she can punch with holm at all. | ||
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Jetaap
France4814 Posts
Ronda tried her usual gameplan, that always worked until then but HH forced her to go for striking exchanges by refusing the clinch. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 09 2016 08:06 GreenHorizons wrote: lol. I guess "out box" is giving Ronda a bit too much credit. "Stand and trade" (albeit very one-sided) would probably be more accurate. You guys are arguing against something I'm not saying. First Ronda should of came in with some sort of shot worked on for a takedown. But even without adding that to her game, she wasn't trying to clinch or take her down for the first minute, plus she was chasing (which is unnecessary when you're the champ). After the first minute it was already too late, she had eaten to much punishment already and Holm was plenty fresh so she had no problem escaping from Ronda's one half loopy attempt at keeping her down. No one's arguing Ronda didn't go back to trying to clinch and take her down but the first minute or so where she put no effort into it and stood and tried to trade was enough for Holm to knock her loopy enough to easily escape when she did finally get a hold of her. EDIT: I Imagine as a trainer once (if) you get over the depression of your fighter it's a lot easier to get them to listen to you when you tell them they need to learn how to do something better. Clearly she needs some better takedown techniques but Holm looked like she desperately wanted to avoid the ground and if she was there the fight could go Ronda's way. But she can't be fooled into thinking she can punch with holm at all. Ronda wasn't trying to stand and trade; if you think her striking was purely for striking purposes you have no idea what you're talking about. Ronda uses strikes to bridge the distance for clinches, it's pretty apparent this is her go to move throughout her career. If she gets a hard punch in, then yeah, she'll finish it there. But, don't think her opening move = her game plan. First Ronda should of came in with some sort of shot worked on for a takedown. You're literally asking Ronda to do something she doesn't have the skill to do. She's never developed this skill, because she's never had to. This is 100% of the fault of the coach due to lack of gameplan, and proper skill development. Her background is in sports Judo, where throws are all upperbody control, and touching the legs are illegal. But even without adding that to her game, she wasn't trying to clinch or take her down for the first minute, plus she was chasing The reason she was chasing was because Holm was keeping distance, and Ronda literally couldn't get into distance to clinch properly. On January 09 2016 07:28 CorsairHero wrote: wei2 is right here listening to joe rogan probably distorted your view of rondas elite striking I still think Ronda's striking is better than like 99.9% of the girls in her weight class, but that's saying nothing when the only women in 135 that can actually fight are Miesha Tate, Holm's, and her. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23759 Posts
I'm saying since she was the champ she could of tried to focus on looking for an opportunity to counter and grapple rather than her chasing and swinging wildly. And if you watch the first minute again you'll see she wasn't really trying to get a hold of her at all (don't think she even so much as opened her hands) and that's the part I'm talking about. You all are talking about what Ronda did after she ate some clean shots while not trying to get a hold of her. I'm talking about the first minute where Ronda chased unnecessarily (rhonda had the middle of the ring, and holm wasn't striking first she was countering Ronda's terrible punches), didn't look to counter with a clinch once, and tried to punch with her. | ||
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Ultraliskhero
Canada249 Posts
Also, I think Cat and Nunes can both best Tate. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 09 2016 09:16 GreenHorizons wrote: Take downs aren't that hard to learn, I mean you're not going to master it the same day or anything but it's not like trying to learn how to put on an Omoplata or anything. I agree that her camp failed and I suspect it probably had to do with the whole not wanting to take direction when you're already "the best". LMAO I mean this entire post screams "I have never done any grappling in my life ever." And if you watch the first minute again you'll see she wasn't really trying to get a hold of her at all (don't think she even so much as opened her hands) and that's the part I'm talking about. You all are talking about what Ronda did after she ate some clean shots while not trying to get a hold of her. it didn't look that way, because you can't clinch someone who's keeping distance properly. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17375 Posts
On January 09 2016 08:06 GreenHorizons wrote: lol. I guess "out box" is giving Ronda a bit too much credit. "Stand and trade" (albeit very one-sided) would probably be more accurate. You guys are arguing against something I'm not saying. First Ronda should of came in with some sort of shot worked on for a takedown. But even without adding that to her game, she wasn't trying to clinch or take her down for the first minute, plus she was chasing (which is unnecessary when you're the champ). After the first minute it was already too late, she had eaten to much punishment already and Holm was plenty fresh so she had no problem escaping from Ronda's one half loopy attempt at keeping her down. No one's arguing Ronda didn't go back to trying to clinch and take her down but the first minute or so where she put no effort into it and stood and tried to trade was enough for Holm to knock her loopy enough to easily escape when she did finally get a hold of her. EDIT: I Imagine as a trainer once (if) you get over the depression of your fighter it's a lot easier to get them to listen to you when you tell them they need to learn how to do something better. Clearly she needs some better takedown techniques but Holm looked like she desperately wanted to avoid the ground and if she was there the fight could go Ronda's way. But she can't be fooled into thinking she can punch with holm at all. keeping in mind the takedowns Ronda has relied upon for years... It is very difficult to do anything against a fighter who is backing up behind a jab. Which is all Holly was doing in the first 70 seconds.. Holly threw 1 power shot in 70 seconds and literally ran to the other side of the ring after connecting. There was lots of non-boxing conflict from 3:47 on and Ronda just lost. BJJScout nailed it dead on before the fight. All Rousey did was exhibit weaknesses she has had for years. To expect her to overhaul her game with an undefeated record and a busy film shooting sched is silly. all i gotta say is..props to BJJScout. every conflict Ronda initiated was with the clinch-grapple-armbar endgame in mind. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 09 2016 09:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote: seeing as new takedowns are so easy to add to your game... let's take a look at all the new takedowns Lawler and Mcgregor have added to their game over the past 2 years.... umm ya. Ignoring the Ronda issue; for McGregor and Robbie they're accomplished enough strikers that training takedown make little to no sense. Takedowns as a tool can be ignored in fighting (a lot more skewed in MMA, where takedowns are rewarded highly), More importantly is learning to to deal with takedowns, with proper sprawling or reversal or having a strong bottom game. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17375 Posts
its just so easy to add new takedowns every fighter in the UFC can turn themselves into Khabib Nurmagomedov in 6 months or less between movie appearances.  because as has been noted by an astute poster adding new takedowns to your game is not hard.twisting the debate into this "she shoulda coulda woulda" added new takedowns just obfuscates the original issue. ronda did not try to outbox or even "stand and trade". Ronda does what she always does. BJJScout covered it in great depth. Ronda is willing to absorb punishment while she closes in. if someone wants to twist that into "she tried to stand and trade" and then twist that into "she tried to outbox Holly" .. they can have fun twisting their mind into a pretzel of rationalizations. Ronda got beat in all non-boxing aspects of her fight with Holly. She got flat out overpowered strength-wise by Holm. | ||
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