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2014 - 2015 Football Thread - Page 768

Forum Index > Sports
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Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14023 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 15:41:00
June 08 2015 15:33 GMT
#15341
Its hard to Name Messi as GOAT when he hasn't won a WC or any other international event. Until he does I would still but maradona above him. Its hard to argue with U-20 and all pro WC golden boots.

I'm getting real nervous that stroot isn't going to manu. He'd be the answer to their defensive woes like no one else.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
UdderChaos
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United Kingdom707 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 15:54:03
June 08 2015 15:52 GMT
#15342
On June 08 2015 20:45 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2015 20:42 Steveling wrote:
On June 08 2015 20:31 UdderChaos wrote:
Zidane and Messi is an interesting one. I think Messi probably is the greatest of all time, but he has a weakness, and that is lack of ability to carry a team. Messi is a player who can take a great team and make them unstoppable, he doesn't win games by himself as much but he makes the rest of the team preform vastly better. Zidane and maradonna on the other hand drag their teams, kicking and screaming, to title after title on both the world cup and club level. They have different impact on teams. Messi's distinct lack of performance in what is actually quite a good world cup side demonstrates this. Messi needs world class enablers playing together to allow him to shine, but when he has this he is simply unstoppable and on another level to anyone else. Zidane on the other hand could probably be put in the Argentinian squad and would have won them the world cup. This doesn't make Zidane better, don't get me wrong, but messi doesn't seem to be able to score insane goals and set up isnane goals without world class players who can read his intentions and either be on the end of his balls or link up with him in the way he invisions and needs. You put zidane in the side instead of messi the other night, and Juventus defiantly have a chance.


This whole post is incredibly bad and doesn't deserve a response, especially the bits I highlighted.
I mean, I just explained it above. sighs


Yea I dont even know why you would bother to tell him it doesnt deserve a response. Wall of text iz to painful for eyez.

Also I totally realised you pointed out the same thing about Zidane but I missed it. Oops.


Haven't really responded to this, just saw a slight critism of Messi and decided to go full dissmissive/rude becuase god forbid it might be more complicated than MESSI> ALL SPORTS PEOPLE AND GENERAL POPULATION AT EVERYTHING EVER

I even said I think Messi is probably the greatest ever, I just think to see that side of him he needs to play in a world class team all round that have syngergy, which is why he is not able to carry Argentina, while other players are better at dragging teams that aren't as functional or world class to titles. Doesn't make them better, just an point of dicussion on messi, but I guess I'll just say hes never done anything wrong and single handley won the champions league 17-0, even if emil hesky and bebe were in the front 3 trident, with djemba-djemba in inestias role, because that's what you want to hear.
Nunquam iens addo vos sursum
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9707 Posts
June 08 2015 15:54 GMT
#15343
On June 09 2015 00:52 UdderChaos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2015 20:45 Rebs wrote:
On June 08 2015 20:42 Steveling wrote:
On June 08 2015 20:31 UdderChaos wrote:
Zidane and Messi is an interesting one. I think Messi probably is the greatest of all time, but he has a weakness, and that is lack of ability to carry a team. Messi is a player who can take a great team and make them unstoppable, he doesn't win games by himself as much but he makes the rest of the team preform vastly better. Zidane and maradonna on the other hand drag their teams, kicking and screaming, to title after title on both the world cup and club level. They have different impact on teams. Messi's distinct lack of performance in what is actually quite a good world cup side demonstrates this. Messi needs world class enablers playing together to allow him to shine, but when he has this he is simply unstoppable and on another level to anyone else. Zidane on the other hand could probably be put in the Argentinian squad and would have won them the world cup. This doesn't make Zidane better, don't get me wrong, but messi doesn't seem to be able to score insane goals and set up isnane goals without world class players who can read his intentions and either be on the end of his balls or link up with him in the way he invisions and needs. You put zidane in the side instead of messi the other night, and Juventus defiantly have a chance.


This whole post is incredibly bad and doesn't deserve a response, especially the bits I highlighted.
I mean, I just explained it above. sighs


Yea I dont even know why you would bother to tell him it doesnt deserve a response. Wall of text iz to painful for eyez.

Also I totally realised you pointed out the same thing about Zidane but I missed it. Oops.


Haven't really responded to this, just saw a slight critism of Messi and decided to go full dissmissive/rude becuase god forbid it might be more complicated than MESSI> ALL SPORTS PEOPLE AND GENERAL POPULATION AT EVERYTHING EVER

I even said I think Messi is probably the greatest ever, I just think to see that side of him he needs to play in a world class team all round that have syngergy, which is why he is not able to carry Argentina, while other players are better at dragging teams that aren't as functional or world class to titles. Doesn't make them better, just an point of dicussion on messi, but I guess I'll just say hes never done anything wrong and single handley won the champions league 17-0, even if emil hesky and bebe were in the front 3 trident, with djemba-djemba in inestias role, because that's what you want to hear.



Could be put more simply by saying that teams have to learn to play with Messi in them. Once they do, they will win everything, but they do have to learn.
RIP Meatloaf <3
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
June 08 2015 15:59 GMT
#15344
On June 09 2015 00:54 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 00:52 UdderChaos wrote:
On June 08 2015 20:45 Rebs wrote:
On June 08 2015 20:42 Steveling wrote:
On June 08 2015 20:31 UdderChaos wrote:
Zidane and Messi is an interesting one. I think Messi probably is the greatest of all time, but he has a weakness, and that is lack of ability to carry a team. Messi is a player who can take a great team and make them unstoppable, he doesn't win games by himself as much but he makes the rest of the team preform vastly better. Zidane and maradonna on the other hand drag their teams, kicking and screaming, to title after title on both the world cup and club level. They have different impact on teams. Messi's distinct lack of performance in what is actually quite a good world cup side demonstrates this. Messi needs world class enablers playing together to allow him to shine, but when he has this he is simply unstoppable and on another level to anyone else. Zidane on the other hand could probably be put in the Argentinian squad and would have won them the world cup. This doesn't make Zidane better, don't get me wrong, but messi doesn't seem to be able to score insane goals and set up isnane goals without world class players who can read his intentions and either be on the end of his balls or link up with him in the way he invisions and needs. You put zidane in the side instead of messi the other night, and Juventus defiantly have a chance.


This whole post is incredibly bad and doesn't deserve a response, especially the bits I highlighted.
I mean, I just explained it above. sighs


Yea I dont even know why you would bother to tell him it doesnt deserve a response. Wall of text iz to painful for eyez.

Also I totally realised you pointed out the same thing about Zidane but I missed it. Oops.


Haven't really responded to this, just saw a slight critism of Messi and decided to go full dissmissive/rude becuase god forbid it might be more complicated than MESSI> ALL SPORTS PEOPLE AND GENERAL POPULATION AT EVERYTHING EVER

I even said I think Messi is probably the greatest ever, I just think to see that side of him he needs to play in a world class team all round that have syngergy, which is why he is not able to carry Argentina, while other players are better at dragging teams that aren't as functional or world class to titles. Doesn't make them better, just an point of dicussion on messi, but I guess I'll just say hes never done anything wrong and single handley won the champions league 17-0, even if emil hesky and bebe were in the front 3 trident, with djemba-djemba in inestias role, because that's what you want to hear.



Could be put more simply by saying that teams have to learn to play with Messi in them. Once they do, they will win everything, but they do have to learn.


Maybe it's just not having Higuain on your team.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
NuclearJudas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
6546 Posts
June 08 2015 16:39 GMT
#15345
I really wish there was a separate thread, so that there could be general football talk in here, instead of multiple page arguments because someone said Messi is/isn't the best ever. Yeah, it's still football talk, but it's almost always a useless discussion that usually devolves into "you're /your points are stupid, my guy is better" and circle arguments.

Ings to Liverpool looks a really good move. He's a very good young striker that will work really well with Sterling and Sturridge, I reckon, if they play the three-at-the-top again.

Wondering who City will pick up to fill their English player (home-grown) quota. I read they're at like 2 out of 8 after losing Milner and Boyata.
Life is like Tetris. Your errors pile up but your accomplishments disappear. - Robert Ohlén | http://railroaddiary.wordpress.com/ - My words about stuff.
Twisted
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands13554 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 16:43:47
June 08 2015 16:43 GMT
#15346
It's a consequence of nothing else to talk about. When the biggest news is some random English striker (who will probably not be that great) transferring to Liverpool, who are terrible at transfers, people will talk about something else.
Moderator
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
June 08 2015 16:50 GMT
#15347
GOAT discussions if entirely rehashing are at least something to fill up the void.

BTW, what is going on with Valencia and Negredo?
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
warding
Profile Joined August 2005
Portugal2394 Posts
June 08 2015 17:17 GMT
#15348
On June 09 2015 01:43 Twisted wrote:
It's a consequence of nothing else to talk about. When the biggest news is some random English striker (who will probably not be that great) transferring to Liverpool, who are terrible at transfers, people will talk about something else.

There is the U20 WC, the Women's WC and the upcoming European U21 (for which there is a new thread!).

I'm sure the Messi GOAT debate wouldn't have existed if Steveling wasn't so obnoxious about it.
Espers
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom606 Posts
June 08 2015 17:41 GMT
#15349
as if 99% of people here saw enough to maradona/pele to make a comparison
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 18:46:32
June 08 2015 18:44 GMT
#15350
On June 09 2015 02:41 Espers wrote:
as if 99% of people here saw enough to maradona/pele to make a comparison

Even if one did, it's still impossible compare them. As a player, you're always standing on the shoulders of giants before you, and there's also things like improved technical possibilities.
And it's pretty hard to compare people from different positions. Beckenbauer has had a pretty strong career as well, including winning the ballon d'or twice as a defender. But how do you compare him to any attacking player in terms of 'greatness', really?
The whole discussion imo is stupid, and GOAT statements seem to be hyperbolic, mainly expressing admiration.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
June 08 2015 19:39 GMT
#15351
Was that Valencia deal equivalent to buying Negredo last year?

But because of the structure of the transaction, Valencia and Man City moved the transaction into this year? What do you do with buyer's remorse in such a deal? I mean at some point, you just have to treat the guy as your already, which probably should have been done last October instead of now.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Deleted User 26513
Profile Joined February 2007
2376 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 20:03:16
June 08 2015 20:03 GMT
#15352
I don't know exactly what kind of deal they sign with Manchester. Marca says that it was a loan... with the obligation to buy after one year. Personally I can't understand why would someone sign such deal. Now they are stuck with Negredo. If he doesn't want to leave, as it looks like, they will have 30M euro back-up player... Just like Real Madrid. Welcome to the VIP Club, Valencia
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
June 08 2015 20:17 GMT
#15353
On June 09 2015 02:41 Espers wrote:
as if 99% of people here saw enough to maradona/pele to make a comparison


I haven't really, that's why I have my tier list of attacking side players, inside the tiers is hugely debatable.

God tier:
Messi
Pele
Maradona

Force of Nature tier:
Cristiano Ronaldo
Ronaldo

All time great tier:
Zidane and many many others
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34171 Posts
June 08 2015 20:27 GMT
#15354
Negredo is so bad, poor Valencia.

but... what kind of fucked up deal is that.
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23409 Posts
June 08 2015 20:46 GMT
#15355
Even bad publicity is usually good publicity — except in the case of the FIFA-financed film United Passions, which was quickly red-carded at the U.S. box office this weekend.

Writer-director Frederic Auburtin's film beyond bombed in its limited debut in 10 theaters, earning a measly $607 on Friday and Saturday, according to those with access to Rentrak figures. The FilmBar theater in downtown Phoenix reported a gross of just $9, meaning only one person bought a ticket to see United Passions, which details the history of the now-embattled FIFA.


Source

Ha!
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
June 08 2015 21:01 GMT
#15356
What a movie release date!
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34171 Posts
June 08 2015 21:02 GMT
#15357
So who is supposed to win the female WC ?
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 08 2015 21:03 GMT
#15358
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4231 Posts
June 08 2015 21:04 GMT
#15359
On June 09 2015 05:03 Pr0wler wrote:
I don't know exactly what kind of deal they sign with Manchester. Marca says that it was a loan... with the obligation to buy after one year. Personally I can't understand why would someone sign such deal. Now they are stuck with Negredo. If he doesn't want to leave, as it looks like, they will have 30M euro back-up player... Just like Real Madrid. Welcome to the VIP Club, Valencia


It is easy. One club wants to sell, one club wants to buy and has the money for it. The club that is buying is already reaching their limit regarding FFP rules, thus has to come up with something smart to get around it and still get the player they want.

2 easy solutions....1st, they get the player on a regular loan...the club that wants to sell wants a significant sum of money to just let the player go out on a loan and come back next year...yet again FFP rules screw this thing so this is a no go...so they move to option 2, I pay you a good sum of cash today that will not break the FFP rules and I'll pay you the rest next season when I have the room in my FFP rules' cap to do it.

The loan with a force buy is a sale designed to circumvent the FFP cap. Just that.
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
haitike
Profile Joined June 2009
Spain2716 Posts
June 08 2015 21:06 GMT
#15360
This is the first time Spain participate in the Female World cup.

Yes... Spain is bad a female football.
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