EPTIf this is really true then not Moyes is at fault here, but the players are.
2013 - 2014 Football Thread - Page 682
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sharkie
Austria18718 Posts
If this is really true then not Moyes is at fault here, but the players are. | ||
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Arevall
Sweden1133 Posts
On March 18 2014 18:01 sharkie wrote: Nothing is fair about it. The ManUtd players need to realise that they aren't world class and that they won all the trophies because of Ferguson, not because of them. If this is really true then not Moyes is at fault here, but the players are. I think Moyes might be at fault for not managing to control the players in ManUtd. Lots of 'has-beens' in Utd right now that don't play with their heart in it at all. Better a worse player giving it all than a better player giving it 90 % or something. It's some kind of wonder Utd won last year and look so bad now. Compared to Liverpool their team looks worse on paper as well I might add. With their current troop they belong in the middle. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6303 Posts
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aseq
Netherlands4015 Posts
On March 18 2014 18:16 RvB wrote: You don't win trophies without good players. Sure a lot of them aren't world class but Rooney and RVP are and then you have Mata who is really good as well. They might not be good enough to win the leagur but they're certainly better than they're performing now and Moyes isn't getting the best out of it. Especially shocking how RVP was running out wide all the time like they stated on MotD. He can't go complain about other players being in his 'spaces' when he's all over the place. Plz get back in front of that goal and get in shape for the summer! | ||
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Pantagruel
United States1427 Posts
While the players can't be completely absolved for playing like shit, ultimately, the burden is on Moyes to both motivate his players to work hard and perform well, as well as create a tactical system the players can succeed in. Moyes has clearly failed in the latter, and judging by the performances recently of many of the players, probably failed to some degree in his man management as well. In my opinion, United should sack Moyes in the summer, but more importantly, start now in the search for a replacement. I think in the end, Moyes will not continue. He could in fact be sacked after the City game if they get hammered there and look as bereft of ideas and creativity as they did versus Liverpool. Either way though, the bottom line is do you trust Moyes to spend £150 million and build a squad for the future when he doesn't even know what to do with the players he has? | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8915 Posts
the thing i dont understand is how he managed to stay at the top half of the table consistently with everton when they had fuck all money but cant do shit with united with apparently unlimited funds. our players are pretty shite now compared to 5-10 years ago obviously, and fergie was a genius for winning last season, but we should be higher than 7th. at this point however, im convinced that even the players cbf playing games properly anymore because they know there is no hope for this season. theyve probably lost most of their motivation outside the champions league. maybe when the new season starts the players will get their shit together too (you can blame moyes tactics, but you cant deny that the players have generally been shit individually as well) | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On March 18 2014 20:24 aseq wrote: Especially shocking how RVP was running out wide all the time like they stated on MotD. He can't go complain about other players being in his 'spaces' when he's all over the place. Plz get back in front of that goal and get in shape for the summer! Tactics aside a big difference between Moyes and Fergie is that Ferguson would have benched him, just like he did with Rooney against Madrid last season, for the better of the team. What is RvP doing out wide all the time? A pundit commented on how much better United looked without RvP in the line-up in terms of fluidity and he was spot-on. Give Welbeck a run in the starting line-up, at least he is making unselfish runs. Same goes for Rooney, what the hell is he doing playing so deep? He's an attacker trying to do Carrick's and Fellaini's job and doing it worse than those two. He should be picking out passes or making runs, Mata has nobody to pass to. It's ridiculous. Motd was spot-on on sunday, btw I really liked these new guys. Dietmar Hamann too was great a couple weeks ago, so much better than the usual "he is fast, quick and has pace" from Alan and co. | ||
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Pantagruel
United States1427 Posts
On March 19 2014 00:12 evilfatsh1t wrote: no matter how much people think sacking moyes is going to be best for united, it wont happen. i dont think the board will be willing to sacrifice their pride/history of sticking to one manager and giving that manager a chance to prove himself over time. the thing i dont understand is how he managed to stay at the top half of the table consistently with everton when they had fuck all money but cant do shit with united with apparently unlimited funds. our players are pretty shite now compared to 5-10 years ago obviously, and fergie was a genius for winning last season, but we should be higher than 7th. at this point however, im convinced that even the players cbf playing games properly anymore because they know there is no hope for this season. theyve probably lost most of their motivation outside the champions league. maybe when the new season starts the players will get their shit together too (you can blame moyes tactics, but you cant deny that the players have generally been shit individually as well) Ultimately the United powers that be will choose eggs for their money. They may keep to their ideals for now but history and pride don't pay the bills. United can accept being a mid table side with David Moyes and their pride, or they can sack him and admit their mistake. They will sack him and try again. Many players have been very poor yes, and I think it's a combination of lack of confidence in the team under Moyes, as well as just not caring anymore. The latter is the players' responsibility and they should be blamed for that, and the former is down to the management. If United go out to Olympiakos tomorrow I think that will be the final nail in the coffin. He might survive until the summer but unless United dramatically improve in the run-in I don't think they will entrust David Moyes with a boatload of money to rebuild the squad. The champions league game is effectively for Moyes' job. | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
AVB and Hulk. Nice... | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Pantagruel
United States1427 Posts
On March 19 2014 01:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: The fact that, if true, Sir Alex had to lie to certain players that he wasn't retiring to make them resign their contracts is telling that this isn't the same ManU. Did they tell RvP that Ferguson was going to retire 1 year after he left I wonder? If not then that is pretty low. I imagine have Ferguson there was a big part of why he went to United in the first place. | ||
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Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
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Pantagruel
United States1427 Posts
On March 19 2014 01:45 Tazza wrote: lots of people are talking about how they don't trust moyes with 150 mil to spend, but the problem with this is that if man u does sack moyes, they won't have anywhere near 150 mil to spend. if they do, they'll have to buy out the rest of moyes' 6 year contract, and pay the salaries of another manager. plus if they go for someone like klopp, who has a long term deal at dortmund, they'll have to pay the club also I'm sure it would be a tough pill to swallow but if you know with 100% certainty that David Moyes isn't your man after all then that's what you have to do. Another issue is of course who you replace Moyes with. I don't see any surefire targets out there. Klopp recently extended his contract with Dortmund I believe and he seems rather loyal. I think he would not leave even for the United job. Mou and Pep are off the market now as well. Maybe Louis van Gaal. He'd take the job in a heartbeat of course as he is looking to coach in England but I'm not certain he is up for the job. He is also notoriously difficult to work with and very stubborn, wants to do things his way and won't compromise. Its a tough situation for United. | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
On March 19 2014 02:10 Pantagruel wrote: I'm sure it would be a tough pill to swallow but if you know with 100% certainty that David Moyes isn't your man after all then that's what you have to do. Another issue is of course who you replace Moyes with. I don't see any surefire targets out there. Klopp recently extended his contract with Dortmund I believe and he seems rather loyal. I think he would not leave even for the United job. Mou and Pep are off the market now as well. Maybe Louis van Gaal. He'd take the job in a heartbeat of course as he is looking to coach in England but I'm not certain he is up for the job. He is also notoriously difficult to work with and very stubborn, wants to do things his way and won't compromise. Its a tough situation for United. Manchester United should go after Diego Simeone. and Diego Costa and Turan ofc. any Porto fans? + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYD0o_GIAAAtwB6.jpg:large) I wonder if you miss him like me  Definitely the most underrated striker of all time. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18718 Posts
On March 19 2014 00:02 Pantagruel wrote: I think the United players are actually world class. They may not be as talented as City or perhaps even Chelsea and Arsenal but probably better then Liverpool. Moyes makes them less then the sum of their parts and that's shocking. Players like RvP and Mata are particularly interesting to watch. Both of these players are hugely talented and extremely effective under Ferguson and at Chelsea respectively. Now they are whispers out there, practically invisible. They didn't magically become bad players, it's simply that Moyes has no clue how to utilize them. While the players can't be completely absolved for playing like shit, ultimately, the burden is on Moyes to both motivate his players to work hard and perform well, as well as create a tactical system the players can succeed in. Moyes has clearly failed in the latter, and judging by the performances recently of many of the players, probably failed to some degree in his man management as well. In my opinion, United should sack Moyes in the summer, but more importantly, start now in the search for a replacement. I think in the end, Moyes will not continue. He could in fact be sacked after the City game if they get hammered there and look as bereft of ideas and creativity as they did versus Liverpool. Either way though, the bottom line is do you trust Moyes to spend £150 million and build a squad for the future when he doesn't even know what to do with the players he has? two good strikers and one goalkeeper dont make a team world class... None of the other players would make first team in chelsea, mancity, barca, real, bayern | ||
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
On March 19 2014 02:11 Mensol wrote: any Porto fans? + Show Spoiler + I wonder if you miss him like me Definitely the most underrated striker of all time.Not a Porto or Sporting fan, but agree with most underrated striker of all time. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On March 19 2014 01:44 Pantagruel wrote: Did they tell RvP that Ferguson was going to retire 1 year after he left I wonder? If not then that is pretty low. I imagine have Ferguson there was a big part of why he went to United in the first place. Sir Alex stated in his book that he lied to RVP and Kagawa before they signed, and told them that he was planning on coaching for a few more years. Edit: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z7FoyWg.png) | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
On March 19 2014 02:29 warding wrote: So who's the best active British manager? Brendan Rodgers? :D Not a Porto or Sporting fan, but agree with most underrated striker of all time. He was unlucky to play at same era with Ronaldo 9. If Ronaldo 9 wasnt there at that time, he would've become a Brazilian and football legend easily. It's been ten years and i havent seen a striker like him. Whenever he touches the ball at box, he was scoring. His positioning was always on spot. He was just... different. | ||
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