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On March 24 2013 22:41 Lachrymose wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 21:56 Sok4R wrote:On March 24 2013 18:51 Lachrymose wrote:
Webber looks extremely annoyed and says "Multi 21, Seb"? I think?
Presumably he was instructed to go into some kind of car-saving mode and Vettel disobeyed the team and passed him. On german TV they found out it means "2 stays ahead of 1", with the starting numbers of Vettel (1) and Webber (2) in mind. On March 24 2013 20:21 Zaros wrote:On March 24 2013 20:19 Klive5ive wrote:
Seb lying is so pathetic - it's obvious what happened. He just straight up say it; "I wanted to win so I ignored the team".
But also Mark needs to stop crying so much and accept that he's a number 2 driver. The team turned his engine down, told him he had the win and Vettel wasnt going to challange, I think hes entirely justified to act like he is. That's not possible anymore, otherwise Vettel wouldn't have won. Systems to control car-systems from the pit were banned years ago, the driver has to make the change. RBR let both drivers race until the last pitstop, then they should stay in position. Both were told to hold position, save tiers and engine. Webber adjusted his settings, Vettel ignored it and went for the win. But "apologies" were pathetic. Why just don't say "I wanted that win so I went for it" instead of something like he first said on the podium with mistake and he did get the message but didn't ignore it (WTF?). Hamilton was straight forward and I give him credit for that. I'm sorry for Nico, he should have been there and Lewis acknoledged that. Great was also the words after the race between Lauda and Toto Wolf, Lauda clearly said is was wrong in the spirit of the sport and competition while Wolf tried to defend it as much as possible, while admitting that is was wrong. And I guess Alonso is pretty happy that he isn't the focus of attention after the embarassing decision to not change the front wing. But he payed for that. And he can't say he was out and it was not his fault. It wasn't really Alonso's fault. He can't see his own front wing or the damage at all. The team should have definitely made that call, not him.
The team did make the call, and becasue of having to change from inters a few laps in anyway they opted to stay out because the dmg didn't seem too bad (he was able to fight with Webber for example), it was a call they got wrong is all.
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Douche move sure, but it's Redbulls fault first and foremost to be honest. If you have a triple champion on your team you either allow him to race, or you make him #1.
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Lets all remember the glory of Silverstone 2011.
"Of course I ignored the team as I want to try and get another place." - Mark Webber 2011
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On March 25 2013 01:33 1Dhalism wrote:
Douche move sure, but it's Redbulls fault first and foremost to be honest. If you have a triple champion on your team you either allow him to race, or you make him #1.
It's more the fact that they have been unable to control there drivers for a number of years now, rather than simply favoring Vettel over Webber or vice-vera
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Germany1287 Posts
Still, this race was ...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WNhCv.jpg)
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Got to admit that was one of the worst pieces of racing i have seen in F1. Sure Webber has done bad things being behind Vettel, but when they are both told to save tyres and cruise home. For Vettel to zoom pass him was a truly shocking moment. Im pretty sure Vettel finishing 2nd would not of been a problem as he is the better driver, but to ignore team orders and overtake shows how selfish he is to me.
Rosberg had the exact same thing happen to him, and all Hamilton could do was apologize in his interview saying he didn't deserve 3rd place and it should of been Nico. Guess that what happens when you run a well oiled team and not have 2 squabbling girls on a team like at Red Bull ^_^ Not like Red Bull didn't have a chance to off load Mark in the summer too and bring in Lewis, but they choose to keep him.
Other than that, Alonso got fucked over by Ferrari shit call not to bring him in too.
Following an angry confrontation with Webber before a grim-faced podium ceremony at Sepang, Vettel told reporters in the post-race press conference: "'I should have behaved today. I made a big mistake.
"It's not a victory I am proud of. It should have been Mark's."
Reiterating his apology to Webber on several occasions thereafter, Vettel stressed he didn't "mean to ignore the strategy".
Christian Horner has said Sebastian Vettel was wrong to ignore team orders at the Malaysian Grand Prix but claimed there was "no point" in asking him to hand the lead of Sunday's race back to Mark Webber.
Tensions between the pair, that have simmered ever since they collided in the 2010 Turkish GP, boiled over at Sepang when Vettel, who had lost out to his team-mate in a duel for the lead after Webber made his final pit stop, ignored a subsequent order to 'hold station' and passed the Australian.
A contrite Lewis Hamilton refused to actively celebrate his first podium finish for Mercedes after admitting team-mate Nico Rosberg would have finished third at the Malaysian GP had it not been for team orders.
Speaking to Sky Sports F1's Martin Brundle on the podium afterwards, Hamilton admitted the wrong Mercedes driver was on the third step at Sepang: "The team did a fantastic job, it's great to be up here for them, but if I'm honest I really feel that Nico should be standing here.
"Generally he had better pace than me throughout the race but he's a great team-mate and did a fantastic job today.
"I can't say it's the best feeling being up here but racing is racing and I've got to keep looking forward."
Ferrari have confirmed it was their decision not to pit Fernando Alonso before he crashed out of the Malaysian GP due to damage on his Ferrari."With hindsight, we can say the risk wasn't worthwhile," accepted Technical Director Pat Fry. "The car still seemed to be competitive and we decided to run the risk of staying out. We definitely could have played safe and called him in, but that way we would have ended up behind everyone on rain tyres and would have lost even more ground with the next stop to fit dry tyres."
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Vettel is a boring piece of shit, it's a shame F1 is not like it was back in the day when drivers used to go looking for their antagonist in the pits, Webber showed class though, something Vettel doesn't have
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Vettel's disobeying team orders was bad but Mercedes pulled complete bullshit.
I'd like to see Roseberg leave (and maybe take Perez's spot) because it's pretty clear that Hamilton is so much the #1 driver that Roseberg is going to play a #2 role more than Irvine did.
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On March 25 2013 05:27 Release wrote:
Vettel's disobeying team orders was bad but Mercedes pulled complete bullshit.
I'd like to see Roseberg leave (and maybe take Perez's spot) because it's pretty clear that Hamilton is so much the #1 driver that Roseberg is going to play a #2 role more than Irvine did.
I love it when people don't understand how F1 works. I wouldn't have mattered who was in front of who, they simply wanted both cars home without having tire/fuel problems and so managing both drivers was the most important thing.
The same was true of Vettel and Webber, except Vettel decided that he was bigger than the team and risked his and Webber's tire wear because of it. Had Nico had a pop at Lewis, Lewis probably would have fought back for the position which could have risked both there positions and caused another stop, or even more aggressive fuel management.
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In 2012 and 2010, Vettel won the championship by less than 7 points.
2 of his 3 championships have been won by less than 7 points.
Webber is, realistically speaking, not a championship contender, he simply isn't good enough.
Sure, Vettel may have gone against team orders, but Webber should be someone Vettel can respect. When he's been consistently slower in the same car, and has spent the last 2 seasons being very much the #2 driver and not looking like he's even coming close to winning a world championship, I can't feel sorry for Webber that Vettel did what's in his own best interests, and is something that is more likely to get the team another drivers world championship.
Vettel has no respect for Webber because he doesn't feel like he should, when Webber doesn't act like a proper number two in deferring to him properly, and when he's not fast enough to be considered on the same level.
The blame is with Red Bull for keeping Webber on board rather than replacing him with someone who will be the number two and/or not defining his role as the number two driver clearly.
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Lonyo has a short memory. Webber came close to winning the 2010 championship had it not been for the fact he couldn't cope with the pressure.
I'm not sure what else you could ask of Webber? He's been one of the most consistent drivers out there.. Red Bull constantly seem to give him a dodgy car over the last few years, slate him in the press and yet he still manages to pull out good performances.
If Vettel was so much quicker than Webber and clearly better in every possible way, he would have not lost the lead to him and been able to over-take him during the 'racing' stages of Red Bulls race, not cheap shot him after they had called team orders, which is what Vettel did.
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Not only short memory because that, but this:
Webbers front wing transferred to Vettels car
From this moment on, I believe car was designed to fit Vettel and his driving style. Same way old Ferrari was designed to fit Schumacher. Webber isn't holy I know that, but over time I came not to like Vettel because of his sad face on interviews whenever he wasn't first. He's too greedy for fame and victories in my opinion. And Webber isn't like that.
Just for information, Hamilton wanted to Redbull instead of Mercedes, asked Bernie to patch him with the team and when Bernie made the call for Lewis he got answer from Dietrich Matešić (Redbull company owner) that he respects Marks driving style too much and that he feels obliged to keep him on team.
I'm interested who will drive for RBR next year, I think this composition won't last long.
FIA is what troubles me, they can't decide whether team decisions are to be or not to be allowed. Few years ago everyone was about that, now it's normal thing even Ross calling in to make sure Nico won't overtake. I was really surprised by that.
On the same note Massa had a start which infuriated me. Blocking Alonso instead of attacking Vettel made so little sense. I blame him for Alonso dropping out, because he'd never come in contact with Webber. Ferrari kinda forgot about team orders. "Don't push Alonso into another car" just slipped their mind. Just when I thought Massa was getting better and more consistent, he drives a sloppy race and figures out in last 2 minutes he can actually overtake in that car. Hope he can pull it together. 
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FIA allow team orders as it's stupid to think because you 'ban' them they don't happen. F1 isn't just a hobby sport, its a professional racing series where the people involved at the highest level spend hundreds of millions a year just trying to win.
And I've no idea what your taking about with regards to Massa and Alonso, Alonso drove into the back of Vettel coming out of turn 2...
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While I think it wasn't the best sportsmanship that Vettel showed today and he generally is an idiot (personal opinion) people should ask themselves: what would have Senna done? I know its pathetic to idolize him that way but as always - with a grain of salt.
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On March 25 2013 07:00 baldgye wrote:
FIA allow team orders as it's stupid to think because you 'ban' them they don't happen. F1 isn't just a hobby sport, its a professional racing series where the people involved at the highest level spend hundreds of millions a year just trying to win.
And I've no idea what your taking about with regards to Massa and Alonso, Alonso drove into the back of Vettel coming out of turn 2...
Was more to do with the wet track i think than anything else.
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On March 25 2013 07:06 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 07:00 baldgye wrote:
FIA allow team orders as it's stupid to think because you 'ban' them they don't happen. F1 isn't just a hobby sport, its a professional racing series where the people involved at the highest level spend hundreds of millions a year just trying to win.
And I've no idea what your taking about with regards to Massa and Alonso, Alonso drove into the back of Vettel coming out of turn 2... Was more to do with the wet track i think than anything else.
Right, but it had nothing to do with Webber or Massa...
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What I was trying to say is that Massa didn't give any space to Alonso, and Alonso broke his front wing retaking position from Webber not attacking Vettel (trying to find a vid to see it again, I was sure about it).
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On March 25 2013 07:00 baldgye wrote:
FIA allow team orders as it's stupid to think because you 'ban' them they don't happen. F1 isn't just a hobby sport, its a professional racing series where the people involved at the highest level spend hundreds of millions a year just trying to win.
And I've no idea what your taking about with regards to Massa and Alonso, Alonso drove into the back of Vettel coming out of turn 2...
Yeah, Red Bull do not give a shit who wins the drivers championship out of Webber and Vettel, they just want one of them to win that and them to comfortably win the constructors championship, they can't do that if they take each other out!
Webber is not a shit driver either, he is on par with Vettel, Vettel is of course slightly better but there is not a million miles in it. The way Webber won Monaco last year proves he knows how to race!
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On March 25 2013 07:13 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 07:00 baldgye wrote:
FIA allow team orders as it's stupid to think because you 'ban' them they don't happen. F1 isn't just a hobby sport, its a professional racing series where the people involved at the highest level spend hundreds of millions a year just trying to win.
And I've no idea what your taking about with regards to Massa and Alonso, Alonso drove into the back of Vettel coming out of turn 2... Yeah, Red Bull do not give a shit who wins the drivers championship out of Webber and Vettel, they just want one of them to win that and them to comfortably win the constructors championship, they can't do that if they take each other out! Webber is not a shit driver either, he is on par with Vettel, Vettel is of course slightly better but there is not a million miles in it. The way Webber won Monaco last year proves he knows how to race!
Webber has weeksends where he looks unbeatable but over the course of the season he is just lackluster compared to Vettel. Vettel clearly is the number 1 driver regarding the championship and I bet that there will be no consequences whatsovever for Vettel. Despite Webber not helping him anymore, but I guess that's what he deserves. Maybe it will be a learning experience  .
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On March 25 2013 07:13 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah, Red Bull do not give a shit who wins the drivers championship out of Webber and Vettel, they just want one of them to win that and them to comfortably win the constructors championship, they can't do that if they take each other out!
Webber is not a shit driver either, he is on par with Vettel, Vettel is of course slightly better but there is not a million miles in it. The way Webber won Monaco last year proves he knows how to race!
Exactly, as far as RBR is concerned they don't care if Verstappen reappeared and won them a championship. Vettel is slightly better then Webber and gets more (than slightly more) from team. When I first saw the situation I though team order was to let Vettel go in front and that Mark was the rebelling one, not vice versa.
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EPT
