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Champions League/Europa League Thread 2012-13 - Page 181

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
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Pik
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany176 Posts
May 01 2013 21:22 GMT
#3601
On May 02 2013 06:11 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2013 06:06 AsnSensation wrote:
[image loading]

pro finish xD

red defenders too far away...
wow, this gank is gonna be easy....
WillyWanker
Profile Joined December 2011
France1915 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-01 21:26:36
May 01 2013 21:24 GMT
#3602
On May 02 2013 06:16 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2013 06:11 WillyWanker wrote:

It seems that I haven't, no. But that doesn't change anything. The list of players that stopped training hard the moment they won is really, really long. Just in Barcelona you could take Ronaldinho and Deco as the best examples... And now, more professional, but not giving 101% you could put Piqué, Alves (who came back to his senses later in the season), Iniesta (who's playing amazingly but who's not defending anymore), ... I'm not saying they cannot come back and win everything, but they need a real change for that. And losing 0-7 in semis can be the trigger. Like doing the 'el Pasillo' to RM in 2007-2008 and then giving everything to win the next Liga...


Sure they are plenty of players who did that, and they were given alot of flak for it as individuals. Your accusing a whole team of not wanting to be the best anymore.

Someone just outlined a list of reasons that need fixing, not all of them I agree with but largely. Believe me Ive been following this club much longer than you have and Ive seen every iteration since Van Gaal and ignoring problems and putting them down to " a subconscious lack of hunger." isnt really addressing them.

Where did I say that it was only on the lack of hunger? Nowhere, again, twisting words, you're really good at that to win arguments it seems.
I wrote a long post last week after the first game, listing everything that was wrong with the players, the team, the tactics, and even the managers (Rosell number 1 to go if I was god). You're the one telling me that this 'lack of hunger' doesn't exist. Well you might have been following Barcelona for longer than me (you're probably older then), but it's not even something that only Barcelona experiences. It's every champion, sometimes in their career. And if you don't consider the psychological approach in sports, then I don't understand why I'm even talking to you... Hell, it's not even about sports, it's about the human nature. You think that when you achieve millions of dollars as a salesman, for years, you will have the same will to improve and keep giving everything you have forever? And that would just be one individual. In a team you have 22 of them, they might not have the same drop as a salesman during his 40s but if you put all these small 1-2% drop together, you arrive at a point where the team cannot compete at the same level as they did years before...
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
May 01 2013 21:24 GMT
#3603
On May 02 2013 06:20 Pandemona wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2013 06:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On May 02 2013 05:35 Pandemona wrote:
On May 02 2013 05:24 sharkie wrote:
Imo the biggest problem Barcelona have to face after this season is:

They have no competent coach who will help them create a plan B. Without Puyol they have no defense. Without Messi they have no offense.
And Puyol is old.


Squad is paper thin as well if you really look into it.

Goalkeeper - Valdes isn't "world class" his replacement...Pinto he justs causes agro!

Wingbacks - This is the only place Barca have cover now. Alba Alves Abidal Adriano (4 is good number)

Centre Backs - They have 2..Puyol and Pique, everyone else is so below par it is untrue (Masch and Bartra!) They need to spend on 2 new CBs imo

Central Midfielders - Xavi Busquets Song Thiago (not shown he is good enough) Johnathon (not shown he is good enough) About the only ones right who are ACTUAL CMs of some description. They need to buy one, some youngster and bring Masch back into DM role and maybe play with 2 or move Busquets a bit further forward

Attacking Midfielders - Fabregas Iniesta could do with another say Isco a nice youngster to bring through and use to add squad rotation

Wingers - Pedro Sanchez Tello that is about it? Tello isn't that good, and Pedro and Sanchez are up and down. They need another winger! Especially if they play Messi as a Striker >.<

Strikers - Messi and Villa. Ok i guess that is enough if your going to play 1 striker a week and it's going to be Messi so poor David Villa hardly plays, and if he does he gets forced outwide But they could do with a nice youngster, like a Bojan but a bit better.

So all in all Barca are probably short. 1x CM 1x(maybe 2x) CB 1x Winger 1x Striker and arguably a world class Keeper to make them unbeatable again

IMO...


They don't need a central midfielder, a goalkeeper or a striker. Why would they sign a striker when they have Messi? They need a winger who can score goals or a striker who can play out wide (eg. Neymar, Bale, Suarez) and a centre back with some pace so they're not constantly getting raped on the counter.

Yes, they lost 7-0 today but they were without Messi and were playing Adriano at centre back. They need a shake up sure, but they're nowhere near as bad are you're pretending. They're only two first XI signings short really.


Squad depth...depth. Injuries are apart of EVERY team, everyone has to deal with them. If Messi gets injured it leaves them with just Villa. That's fine, but id rather have a youngster kicking up a starting place or rotation policy so it keeps players fresh the Messi and Villa.
Why don't they need a central midfielder? Busquests Xavi Iniesta can play as a midfield 3 i agree, probs arguably the best midfield 3 in the world. But what happens when Xavi or Iniesta is injured? Who comes in? Thiago and Johnathon? Both not equipped imo to play at the top level, they need a good central midfielder.
Goalkeeper they do, Valdes is leaving anyway But they were probably going to replace him anyway, they need a good solid world class keeper to help save them on the odd counter attack too.


Thiago is really good. They just need some help defensively really the squad shapes up fine if they dont have Masch and Adriano playing in the middle.

Bartra is not good enough yet, but its not fair to throw him under the bus. Puyol was no great shakes in his formative years either.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
May 01 2013 21:25 GMT
#3604
On May 02 2013 06:24 WillyWanker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2013 06:16 Rebs wrote:
On May 02 2013 06:11 WillyWanker wrote:

It seems that I haven't, no. But that doesn't change anything. The list of players that stopped training hard the moment they won is really, really long. Just in Barcelona you could take Ronaldinho and Deco as the best examples... And now, more professional, but not giving 101% you could put Piqué, Alves (who came back to his senses later in the season), Iniesta (who's playing amazingly but who's not defending anymore), ... I'm not saying they cannot come back and win everything, but they need a real change for that. And losing 0-7 in semis can be the trigger. Like doing the 'el Pasillo' to RM in 2007-2008 and then giving everything to win the next Liga...


Sure they are plenty of players who did that, and they were given alot of flak for it as individuals. Your accusing a whole team of not wanting to be the best anymore.

Someone just outlined a list of reasons that need fixing, not all of them I agree with but largely. Believe me Ive been following this club much longer than you have and Ive seen every iteration since Van Gaal and ignoring problems and putting them down to " a subconscious lack of hunger." isnt really addressing them.

Where did I say that it was only on the lack of hunger? Nowhere, again, twisting words, you're really good at that to win arguments it seems.
I wrote a long post last week after the first game, listing everything that was wrong with the players, the team, the tactics, and even the managers (Rosell number 1 to go if I was god). You're the one telling me that this 'lack of hunger' doesn't exist. Well you might have been following Barcelona for longer than me (you're probably older then), but it's not even something that only Barcelona experiences. It's every champion, sometimes in their career. And if you don't consider the psychological approach in sports, then I don't understand why I'm even talking to you... Hell, it's not even about sports, it's about the human nature. You think that when you achieve millions of dollars as a salesman, for years, you will have the same will to improve and keep giving everything you have forever? And that would just be one individual. In a team you have 22 of them, they might not have the same drop as a salesman during his 40s but if you put all these small 1-2% drop together, you arrive at a point where the team cannot compete at the same level as it was years before...


Fact is, they dont win every year, they win alot, but its not like the feeling hangs around long and its not like they are winning everything under the sun the past couple of years.
WillyWanker
Profile Joined December 2011
France1915 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-01 21:30:28
May 01 2013 21:27 GMT
#3605
You just cannot win the CL every year, so if you count that out, they won pretty much everything except la Liga last year, and they corrected that anomaly this season... Add the national team titles too....

Rosell 'This year we have not had much luck with the referees'... What a moron... He's clearly the first issue Barça should solve, but I'm dreaming I guess...
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-01 21:31:49
May 01 2013 21:30 GMT
#3606
On May 02 2013 06:27 WillyWanker wrote:
You just cannot win the CL every year, so if you count that out, they won pretty much everything except la Liga last year, and they corrected that anomaly this season... Add the national team titles too....


You cant, thats fine ive made that way clearer than anyone has here.

but then whats drying up the motivation if your not winning it ?

They won everything last year except La Liga ? Really ?

Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
May 01 2013 21:31 GMT
#3607
On May 02 2013 06:20 Pandemona wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2013 06:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On May 02 2013 05:35 Pandemona wrote:
On May 02 2013 05:24 sharkie wrote:
Imo the biggest problem Barcelona have to face after this season is:

They have no competent coach who will help them create a plan B. Without Puyol they have no defense. Without Messi they have no offense.
And Puyol is old.


Squad is paper thin as well if you really look into it.

Goalkeeper - Valdes isn't "world class" his replacement...Pinto he justs causes agro!

Wingbacks - This is the only place Barca have cover now. Alba Alves Abidal Adriano (4 is good number)

Centre Backs - They have 2..Puyol and Pique, everyone else is so below par it is untrue (Masch and Bartra!) They need to spend on 2 new CBs imo

Central Midfielders - Xavi Busquets Song Thiago (not shown he is good enough) Johnathon (not shown he is good enough) About the only ones right who are ACTUAL CMs of some description. They need to buy one, some youngster and bring Masch back into DM role and maybe play with 2 or move Busquets a bit further forward

Attacking Midfielders - Fabregas Iniesta could do with another say Isco a nice youngster to bring through and use to add squad rotation

Wingers - Pedro Sanchez Tello that is about it? Tello isn't that good, and Pedro and Sanchez are up and down. They need another winger! Especially if they play Messi as a Striker >.<

Strikers - Messi and Villa. Ok i guess that is enough if your going to play 1 striker a week and it's going to be Messi so poor David Villa hardly plays, and if he does he gets forced outwide But they could do with a nice youngster, like a Bojan but a bit better.

So all in all Barca are probably short. 1x CM 1x(maybe 2x) CB 1x Winger 1x Striker and arguably a world class Keeper to make them unbeatable again

IMO...


They don't need a central midfielder, a goalkeeper or a striker. Why would they sign a striker when they have Messi? They need a winger who can score goals or a striker who can play out wide (eg. Neymar, Bale, Suarez) and a centre back with some pace so they're not constantly getting raped on the counter.

Yes, they lost 7-0 today but they were without Messi and were playing Adriano at centre back. They need a shake up sure, but they're nowhere near as bad are you're pretending. They're only two first XI signings short really.


Squad depth...depth. Injuries are apart of EVERY team, everyone has to deal with them. If Messi gets injured it leaves them with just Villa. That's fine, but id rather have a youngster kicking up a starting place or rotation policy so it keeps players fresh the Messi and Villa.
Why don't they need a central midfielder? Busquests Xavi Iniesta can play as a midfield 3 i agree, probs arguably the best midfield 3 in the world. But what happens when Xavi or Iniesta is injured? Who comes in? Thiago and Johnathon? Both not equipped imo to play at the top level, they need a good central midfielder.
Goalkeeper they do, Valdes is leaving anyway But they were probably going to replace him anyway, they need a good solid world class keeper to help save them on the odd counter attack too.


You need to stop playing football manager. Barcelona have Song, Thiago and Fabregas as backup midfielders. No one in the world has better backup than that, it is incredible overkill for a backup three midfielders. No team is going to have all the best midfielders in the world at once and Barcelona have 6 central midfielders who would start for an Arsenal level club and 4 who are top, top level. There's no way they need a midfielder.

They need to replace Villa or keep Villa and add another player as I've said. What they don't need is a centre forward like a Falcao or a Lewandowski, because Messi is far, far better in that position than any other player in world football and those players will not sit on the bench. They need a player like Suarez or Cavani who can play from a wide position and be a major goal threat but also play through the middle if Messi is injured or they want to rest him. Alternatively they could sign a Neymar or Bale who can't really play through the middle but is still a major goal threat from wide so the other team has more to worry about than just Messi. They used to have this with Eto'o/Henry and Villa/Pedro but Villa/Pedro are extremely off form and Sanchez has been woeful since he moved there. So they need to sign 1 or maybe 2 of those kind of players depending on how much money they have and who is available.

Valdes is good enough, he's not the best keeper going but he's good enough and it's not like there's loads of world class goalkeepers floating around. Just look at the problems Man Utd have had win De Gea or City with Hart. I don't see Valdes as having been worse than them. If he leaves then sure they'll need to sign Courtouis or Ter Stegen or whoever.

Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
May 01 2013 21:33 GMT
#3608
On May 02 2013 06:31 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2013 06:20 Pandemona wrote:
On May 02 2013 06:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On May 02 2013 05:35 Pandemona wrote:
On May 02 2013 05:24 sharkie wrote:
Imo the biggest problem Barcelona have to face after this season is:

They have no competent coach who will help them create a plan B. Without Puyol they have no defense. Without Messi they have no offense.
And Puyol is old.


Squad is paper thin as well if you really look into it.

Goalkeeper - Valdes isn't "world class" his replacement...Pinto he justs causes agro!

Wingbacks - This is the only place Barca have cover now. Alba Alves Abidal Adriano (4 is good number)

Centre Backs - They have 2..Puyol and Pique, everyone else is so below par it is untrue (Masch and Bartra!) They need to spend on 2 new CBs imo

Central Midfielders - Xavi Busquets Song Thiago (not shown he is good enough) Johnathon (not shown he is good enough) About the only ones right who are ACTUAL CMs of some description. They need to buy one, some youngster and bring Masch back into DM role and maybe play with 2 or move Busquets a bit further forward

Attacking Midfielders - Fabregas Iniesta could do with another say Isco a nice youngster to bring through and use to add squad rotation

Wingers - Pedro Sanchez Tello that is about it? Tello isn't that good, and Pedro and Sanchez are up and down. They need another winger! Especially if they play Messi as a Striker >.<

Strikers - Messi and Villa. Ok i guess that is enough if your going to play 1 striker a week and it's going to be Messi so poor David Villa hardly plays, and if he does he gets forced outwide But they could do with a nice youngster, like a Bojan but a bit better.

So all in all Barca are probably short. 1x CM 1x(maybe 2x) CB 1x Winger 1x Striker and arguably a world class Keeper to make them unbeatable again

IMO...


They don't need a central midfielder, a goalkeeper or a striker. Why would they sign a striker when they have Messi? They need a winger who can score goals or a striker who can play out wide (eg. Neymar, Bale, Suarez) and a centre back with some pace so they're not constantly getting raped on the counter.

Yes, they lost 7-0 today but they were without Messi and were playing Adriano at centre back. They need a shake up sure, but they're nowhere near as bad are you're pretending. They're only two first XI signings short really.


Squad depth...depth. Injuries are apart of EVERY team, everyone has to deal with them. If Messi gets injured it leaves them with just Villa. That's fine, but id rather have a youngster kicking up a starting place or rotation policy so it keeps players fresh the Messi and Villa.
Why don't they need a central midfielder? Busquests Xavi Iniesta can play as a midfield 3 i agree, probs arguably the best midfield 3 in the world. But what happens when Xavi or Iniesta is injured? Who comes in? Thiago and Johnathon? Both not equipped imo to play at the top level, they need a good central midfielder.
Goalkeeper they do, Valdes is leaving anyway But they were probably going to replace him anyway, they need a good solid world class keeper to help save them on the odd counter attack too.


You need to stop playing football manager. Barcelona have Song, Thiago and Fabregas as backup midfielders. No one in the world has better backup than that, it is incredible overkill for a backup three midfielders. No team is going to have all the best midfielders in the world at once and Barcelona have 6 central midfielders who would start for an Arsenal level club and 4 who are top, top level. There's no way they need a midfielder.

They need to replace Villa or keep Villa and add another player as I've said. What they don't need is a centre forward like a Falcao or a Lewandowski, because Messi is far, far better in that position than any other player in world football and those players will not sit on the bench. They need a player like Suarez or Cavani who can play from a wide position and be a major goal threat but also play through the middle if Messi is injured or they want to rest him. Alternatively they could sign a Neymar or Bale who can't really play through the middle but is still a major goal threat from wide so the other team has more to worry about than just Messi. They used to have this with Eto'o/Henry and Villa/Pedro but Villa/Pedro are extremely off form and Sanchez has been woeful since he moved there. So they need to sign 1 or maybe 2 of those kind of players depending on how much money they have and who is available.

Valdes is good enough, he's not the best keeper going but he's good enough and it's not like there's loads of world class goalkeepers floating around. Just look at the problems Man Utd have had win De Gea or City with Hart. I don't see Valdes as having been worse than them. If he leaves then sure they'll need to sign Courtouis or Ter Stegen or whoever.



Yea that is pretty accurate, the problem is, Sanchez was supposed to be the goal scoring winger but that hasnt worked out and Pedro/Tello havent had it against the big teams.
WillyWanker
Profile Joined December 2011
France1915 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-01 21:35:00
May 01 2013 21:33 GMT
#3609
On May 02 2013 06:30 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2013 06:27 WillyWanker wrote:
You just cannot win the CL every year, so if you count that out, they won pretty much everything except la Liga last year, and they corrected that anomaly this season... Add the national team titles too....


You cant, thats fine ive made that way clearer than anyone has here.

but then whats drying up the motivation if your not winning it ?

They won everything last year except La Liga ? Really ?


Supercopa, Copa, Club World Cup... Yeah everything... The CL was close, and like you said, you can't win it every year.
+ European Championship for 75% of the team...
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-01 21:36:49
May 01 2013 21:34 GMT
#3610
On May 02 2013 06:33 WillyWanker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2013 06:30 Rebs wrote:
On May 02 2013 06:27 WillyWanker wrote:
You just cannot win the CL every year, so if you count that out, they won pretty much everything except la Liga last year, and they corrected that anomaly this season... Add the national team titles too....


You cant, thats fine ive made that way clearer than anyone has here.

but then whats drying up the motivation if your not winning it ?

They won everything last year except La Liga ? Really ?


Supercopa, Copa, Club World Cup... Yeah everything... The CL was close, and like you said, you can't win it every year.


lol Supercopa and CWC, give me a break.

So winning frill trophies dampens your motivation to try and win the most important competition ?

Sorry Im just not seeing it.
WillyWanker
Profile Joined December 2011
France1915 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-01 21:38:27
May 01 2013 21:37 GMT
#3611
I edited. AND the European Championship for most of the players in the starting 11. Sure, that's nothing x) Anyway, you seem to be out of bullets on the initial subject, so I'm going back to bed.
Salazarz
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Korea (South)2591 Posts
May 01 2013 21:51 GMT
#3612
Wow, barca down 0-7, never thought I'd see the day
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
May 01 2013 21:58 GMT
#3613
On May 02 2013 06:37 WillyWanker wrote:
I edited. AND the European Championship for most of the players in the starting 11. Sure, that's nothing x) Anyway, you seem to be out of bullets on the initial subject, so I'm going back to bed.


yeah thats what it is.. goodnight
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
May 01 2013 22:15 GMT
#3614
What

The

Fuck

O_O

Barca went down 0-7 in total? That's just... what? Really? I mean... come on.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Aegon I
Profile Joined April 2013
Canada133 Posts
May 01 2013 22:23 GMT
#3615
[image loading]
"His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy's"
dnosrc
Profile Joined May 2009
Germany454 Posts
May 01 2013 22:34 GMT
#3616
So a german team will lose in the champion league final for the 3rd time in 4 years :<
Aegon I
Profile Joined April 2013
Canada133 Posts
May 01 2013 22:47 GMT
#3617
Anatomy of Barca humiliation:
1. Centre back: yes... Barca needs at least one very top class centre back with strong physical presence... (Puyol can never be the old Puyol, Mascherano is not the class that I mean, Marc Barta needs time...)
2. Tello is better than any other forwards in Barca, except Messi... Pedro is ok... but he lacks physical strength. And, ofcourse, by now Villa should know that his exit door is open...
3. Barca needs a BIG Monster midfielder, like Yaya Toure. Xavi is aging... Cesc is slow... Iniesta, Thiago and Busquets are ok... but overall they lack the steel, the strong physical presence that show their ability to kick the opponent's ass.
"His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy's"
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-01 23:13:30
May 01 2013 23:12 GMT
#3618
I don't remember every hearing about a top club like Barca/Bayern/Man U/Real being humiliated in an 0-7 aggregate fashion. I wonder if this beat-down will push the club to re-evaluate their position and improve some things.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
sc4k
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom5454 Posts
May 02 2013 00:01 GMT
#3619
On May 02 2013 07:47 Aegon I wrote:
Anatomy of Barca humiliation:
1. Centre back: yes... Barca needs at least one very top class centre back with strong physical presence... (Puyol can never be the old Puyol, Mascherano is not the class that I mean, Marc Barta needs time...)
2. Tello is better than any other forwards in Barca, except Messi... Pedro is ok... but he lacks physical strength. And, ofcourse, by now Villa should know that his exit door is open...
3. Barca needs a BIG Monster midfielder, like Yaya Toure. Xavi is aging... Cesc is slow... Iniesta, Thiago and Busquets are ok... but overall they lack the steel, the strong physical presence that show their ability to kick the opponent's ass.


1. Yep, Piqué is respectable but Mascherano and Barta...move on. Varane >>> them.

2. For me, HELL no. Villa and Pedro are better than him. Tello, imo, is just an okay striker with pace who is no more than a Spanish Walcott.

3. They already had Yaya lol, not that long ago. They got Song because they wanted a player who has physical presence but could also be good on the ball. Good in theory, but doesn't seem to be working out well. I agree that Cesc does not make a good midfielder and does not press that well. Xavi does but he is aging and you can't rely on him to put in a defensive shift for 90 minutes. Busquets is just a shit but he is a good player, good on the ball for someone with at least some presence.
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
May 02 2013 00:33 GMT
#3620
Tello shows potential for way better vision/passing/touch than Walcott. Some of his cross-field passes I've seen are just perfect.

Don't agree with the monster midfielder at all, (or any midfielder right now, Busquets is central to their gameplay, he's really freaking good and not going anywhere).
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
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