EPTChampions League/Europa League Thread 2012-13 - Page 180
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
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kemoryan
Spain1506 Posts
On May 02 2013 05:57 WillyWanker wrote: You were just saying that players are never gonna admit it minutes ago, and now you're quoting one of them? Funny funny  Hah, you got him good this time. Truth be told, motivation is indeed one of the factors that's affecting Barcas squad, but of course it's not the only one: lack of depth (weak defense, bad offense relying too much on Messi, etc.), bad physical shape, and lack of ideas all come into play. If you add all this, then a team like Bayern, which we can safely say is currently the best in the world, will give you such a beating. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18407 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:00 WillyWanker wrote: Clearly, clearly... So on what do you put Barça's drop in level? Not even talking about Bayern. Just Barça. Players getting worse? But these same players won the European Championship not even one year ago. Lack of defense? They had the same last year and the year before and even won with Piqué Touré in 2009. Lack of offensive solutions? They had the same style in 2011 and they won the CL iirc. So what, rng? They never ever deserved to win 2008/2009 season. So yes RNG if you want to call it like that lol. | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
 Barca will come strong next year, they needed a kick in the ass I think.Congrats to Bayern, I hope they win CL since they've been the best team in the world for 2 years now and they deserve a win after 3 finals in 4 years. | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On May 02 2013 05:45 WillyWanker wrote: It's not an excuse, it's reality. Sacchi said that you cannot be so hungry for long, and he's one guy who knows what it is to dominate... 'Your saying they are playing poorly because they dont care. ': why you always have to twist my words? So annoying... I'm not saying they don't care, I'm saying that unconsciously they're lowering their level because they don't have the same thirst for titles... is that the same thing? You won everything, of course you're going to have more difficulty to give everything you have to win, again, and again, and again... It's the same story in every sport. If you don't understand the psychological consequences of winning for years, well I have nothing more to say to you... Fabio Capello disagreed with him tho and went on to have great success with largely the same team. The only reason Milan couldn't maintain the level of dominance was because Gullit was getting caught banging wives and Marco van Basten could barely walk. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:02 sharkie wrote: They never ever deserved to win 2008/2009 season. So yes RNG if you want to call it like that lol. RNG for a 1-1 in Stamford Bridge, alright I can give you that. RNG for a 0-7 ? No sir, no... And for the losses against RM, and for the loss against Milan, the 2 draws against PSG, ... | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:03 Ysellian wrote: Fabio Capello disagreed with him tho and went on to have great success with largely the same team. The only reason Milan couldn't maintain the level of dominance was because Gullit was out banging wives and Marco van Basten could barely walk. And why did these 2 players do that? Finish your argument please and we'll agree... They stopped being professional enough because they had won so much they didn't feel the need to push more. Because at this level, every little detail count, and the little details comes from training and being professional. Now, I don't doubt any second that Barca players are a lot more professional than these 2 crazy dudes, but on the extra 1% they have to give during training? I think they're not giving it right now. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.minus.com/ibvHKGw5Q7G8BI.gif) | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:05 WillyWanker wrote: And why did these 2 players do that? Finish your argument please and we'll agree... They stopped being professional enough because they had won so much they didn't feel the need to push more. Because at this level, every little detail count, and the little details comes from training and being professional. Now, I don't doubt any second that Barca players are a lot more professional than these 2 crazy dudes, but on the extra 1% they have to give during training? I think they're not giving it right now. Rofl. You actually have no idea what happened to Marco van Basten do you? You really don't know? Seriously man, you may not want to argue with someone who grew up learning everything about "Het Perfecte Eftal" since childhood. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:00 WillyWanker wrote: Clearly, clearly... So on what do you input Barça's drop in level? Not even talking about Bayern. Just Barça. Players getting worse? But these same players won the European Championship not even one year ago. Lack of defense? They had the same last year and the year before and even won with Piqué Touré in 2009. Lack of offensive solutions? They had the same style in 2011 and they won the CL iirc. So what, rng? 1. Messi being injured for their key games is a pretty massive reason. 2. Villa, Pedro, Puyol and Xavi declining in the last 2 years or so, meaning they're much frailer defensively and aren't scoring goals from players not called Messi, who's been injured when it's mattered. 3. Mascherano and Puyol being injured. 4. Teams have learnt how to play against tiki taka. Barcelona need a bit more variety in attack. Bale, Cavani, Suarez, Neymar and many others would add more options and more threat than just Messi going forward. They also desperately need another centre back to replace Puyol. As well in their heydey they had Alves on one flank and then a full back come centre back in Abidal who made it a back three when Alves went auxillary right winger. Now they use Alba who's really good but you can't play with two wing backs and a dodgy back two with no pace and expect to be tight in defence. Barcelona are still a very, very good team which is why they won La Liga and made the UCL finals. I think they'll be back next year if they invest and make a few changes in the summer which I think they will. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18407 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:05 WillyWanker wrote: And why did these 2 players do that? Finish your argument please and we'll agree... They stopped being professional enough because they had won so much they didn't feel the need to push more. Because at this level, every little detail count, and the little details comes from training and being professional. Now, I don't doubt any second that Barca players are a lot more professional than these 2 crazy dudes, but on the extra 1% they have to give during training? I think they're not giving it right now. Marco van Basten was injured. God man. YOU sir are a troll if you call being injured stopped being professional | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:09 sharkie wrote: Marco van Basten was injured. God man. YOU sir are a troll if you call being injured stopped being professional Yeah, he just doesn't know lol. | ||
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MyNameIsAlex
Greece827 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:06 AsnSensation wrote: pro finish xD | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:07 Ysellian wrote: Rofl. You actually have no idea what happened to Marco van Basten do you? It seems that I haven't, no. But that doesn't change anything. The list of players that stopped training hard the moment they won is really, really long. Just in Barcelona you could take Ronaldinho and Deco as the best examples... And now, more professional, but not giving 101% you could put Piqué, Alves (who came back to his senses later in the season), Iniesta (who's playing amazingly but who's not defending anymore), ... I'm not saying they cannot come back and win everything, but they need a real change for that. And losing 0-7 in semis can be the trigger. Like doing the 'el Pasillo' to RM in 2007-2008 and then giving everything to win the next Liga... | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:09 sharkie wrote: Marco van Basten was injured. God man. YOU sir are a troll if you call being injured stopped being professional A troll? YOU calling me a troll? ... I don't actually know his story in details, no, and I misread his sentences, I thought he said Gullit AND Van Basten were out banging wives etc;.. It doesn't change my argument one second anyway... Football is played with 11 players, and at this level if the 11 players aren't 100% in the game, you're screwed. And it's not like Van Basten was really part of my theory anyway... You are just trying to demolish my opinion by talking about something that doesn't even matter... | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On May 02 2013 05:35 Pandemona wrote: Squad is paper thin as well if you really look into it. Goalkeeper - Valdes isn't "world class" his replacement...Pinto he justs causes agro! Wingbacks - This is the only place Barca have cover now. Alba Alves Abidal Adriano (4 is good number) Centre Backs - They have 2..Puyol and Pique, everyone else is so below par it is untrue (Masch and Bartra!) They need to spend on 2 new CBs imo Central Midfielders - Xavi Busquets Song Thiago (not shown he is good enough) Johnathon (not shown he is good enough) About the only ones right who are ACTUAL CMs of some description. They need to buy one, some youngster and bring Masch back into DM role and maybe play with 2 or move Busquets a bit further forward Attacking Midfielders - Fabregas Iniesta could do with another say Isco a nice youngster to bring through and use to add squad rotation Wingers - Pedro Sanchez Tello that is about it? Tello isn't that good, and Pedro and Sanchez are up and down. They need another winger! Especially if they play Messi as a Striker >.< Strikers - Messi and Villa. Ok i guess that is enough if your going to play 1 striker a week and it's going to be Messi so poor David Villa hardly plays, and if he does he gets forced outwide  But they could do with a nice youngster, like a Bojan but a bit better.So all in all Barca are probably short. 1x CM 1x(maybe 2x) CB 1x Winger 1x Striker and arguably a world class Keeper to make them unbeatable again IMO... They don't need a central midfielder, a goalkeeper or a striker. Why would they sign a striker when they have Messi? They need a winger who can score goals or a striker who can play out wide (eg. Neymar, Bale, Suarez) and a centre back with some pace so they're not constantly getting raped on the counter. Yes, they lost 7-0 today but they were without Messi and were playing Adriano at centre back. They need a shake up sure, but they're nowhere near as bad are you're pretending. They're only two first XI signings short really. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:11 WillyWanker wrote: It seems that I haven't, no. But that doesn't change anything. The list of players that stopped training hard the moment they won is really, really long. Just in Barcelona you could take Ronaldinho and Deco as the best examples... And now, more professional, but not giving 101% you could put Piqué, Alves (who came back to his senses later in the season), Iniesta (who's playing amazingly but who's not defending anymore), ... I'm not saying they cannot come back and win everything, but they need a real change for that. And losing 0-7 in semis can be the trigger. Like doing the 'el Pasillo' to RM in 2007-2008 and then giving everything to win the next Liga... Sure they are plenty of players who did that, and they were given alot of flak for it as individuals. Ronnies flab was a running joke. Your accusing a whole team of not wanting to be the best anymore. Someone just outlined a list of thingsthat need fixing, not all of them I agree with but largely its pretty accurate. Believe me Ive been following this club much longer than you have and Ive seen every iteration since Van Gaal and ignoring problems and putting them down to " a subconscious lack of hunger." isnt really addressing them. And where do you propose to get these "2x signings." If they need them then get them, but not because they existing squad is unprofessional. A dip in performance is natural no one is suggesting otherwise, no team can dominate for long and no team should, even if I would like them to win all the time its a selfish sentiment. But drive or lack thereoff is not a reason and if it is, its not acceptable. | ||
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kemoryan
Spain1506 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:11 WillyWanker wrote: It seems that I haven't, no. But that doesn't change anything. The list of players that stopped training hard the moment they won is really, really long. Just in Barcelona you could take Ronaldinho and Deco as the best examples... And now, more professional, but not giving 101% you could put Piqué, Alves (who came back to his senses later in the season), Iniesta (who's playing amazingly but who's not defending anymore), ... I'm not saying they cannot come back and win everything, but they need a real change for that. And losing 0-7 in semis can be the trigger. Like doing the 'el Pasillo' to RM in 2007-2008 and then giving everything to win the next Liga... While I agree with you, it is kind of a disgrace for such players to slack off like this when they're getting paid millions. You were spot on with regards to Ronaldinho and Deco... I guess this is human nature. That's also why one of the most important things Guardiola did in FBC was get rid them. And I'm willing to bet he realized something like this was bound to happen again and left in the perfect moment. I'm afraid Tito doesn't have the courage or ability to deal with such a situation. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: They don't need a central midfielder, a goalkeeper or a striker. Why would they sign a striker when they have Messi? They need a winger who can score goals or a striker who can play out wide (eg. Neymar, Bale, Suarez) and a centre back with some pace so they're not constantly getting raped on the counter. Yes, they lost 7-0 today but they were without Messi and were playing Adriano at centre back. They need a shake up sure, but they're nowhere near as bad are you're pretending. They're only two first XI signings short really. Squad depth...depth. Injuries are apart of EVERY team, everyone has to deal with them. If Messi gets injured it leaves them with just Villa. That's fine, but id rather have a youngster kicking up a starting place or rotation policy so it keeps players fresh the Messi and Villa. Why don't they need a central midfielder? Busquests Xavi Iniesta can play as a midfield 3 i agree, probs arguably the best midfield 3 in the world. But what happens when Xavi or Iniesta is injured? Who comes in? Thiago and Johnathon? Both not equipped imo to play at the top level, they need a good central midfielder. Goalkeeper they do, Valdes is leaving anyway  But they were probably going to replace him anyway, they need a good solid world class keeper to help save them on the odd counter attack too. | ||
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