On December 22 2011 09:30 spedFIGHT wrote: I never thought I was capable of running long distance (always a sprinter in high school) but 3 months ago I met a woman who put a hungerous desire in me to get my body in top shape. I've gone from running out of breath at 1km to running 6km(3.7 miles) in 32 mins and still feeling ready for more. Nobody is except from being able to run!
My experience is that I started getting sore knees when I began because I ran twice a day. I'm not having that problem anymore because I made an effort to learn a proper running form and I limit running to once a day. Anybody have ideas for how I could safely kick it up a notch to get more cardio fitness and use more calories? I'm thinking more speed but that doesn't sound right.
The two best methods I know of for improving cardio fitness are long runs or HIIT. Long runs are just what you expect, running longer than you normally do and really being a distance runner. We're all capable of this, human beings were designed to run.
HIIT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training) involves sprinting workouts that generally go a) run as hard as you can for x amount of time, then b) rest for 1/2 x, then repeat. HIIT makes your body burn more calories after the workout because of the intensity and also improves your endurance. However HIIT is incredibly injury prone and if you wanna try it, definitely ease your way into it by doing shorter/less intervals than normal programs include.
Personally I'd recommend long runs if your legs are still prone to soreness. HIIT may be too intense while your body builds its running strength. You can make long runs harder by running 5 minute kilometers instead of 5:30 minute kilometers, etc.
So I've just started getting a little more into running, and I have 2 questions for you fine folks
1. Is it possible to be a runner and still do strength-building weight lifting like what's talked about in most of the rest of this forum? 2. I started by running 20 minutes today at ~6.5 miles/hour, and I thought I'd just add a minute of running each workout day (which for me is every other day) Is that a bad way to do it? Should I work at 20 for a while and get comfortable and then go for a bigger jump? Something else?
On December 22 2011 13:28 GuiltyJerk wrote: So I've just started getting a little more into running, and I have 2 questions for you fine folks
1. Is it possible to be a runner and still do strength-building weight lifting like what's talked about in most of the rest of this forum? 2. I started by running 20 minutes today at ~6.5 miles/hour, and I thought I'd just add a minute of running each workout day (which for me is every other day) Is that a bad way to do it? Should I work at 20 for a while and get comfortable and then go for a bigger jump? Something else?
1. Absolutely. (I do both myself ^^). Look to the strength training forums for a program that suits you, but whatever you choose always do strength training first in a workout, or alternate days between strength training on A days and running on B days. Otherwise you'll be hurting your weight lifting gains. 2. I'd say add time until you're at least running 35 minutes. After that you can either increase the time you're working out or increase the speed you run at so that either way you're running a farther distance. It's up to what you prefer. You can also play around and run different paces to keep your body guessing. :D
On December 22 2011 13:28 GuiltyJerk wrote: So I've just started getting a little more into running, and I have 2 questions for you fine folks
1. Is it possible to be a runner and still do strength-building weight lifting like what's talked about in most of the rest of this forum? 2. I started by running 20 minutes today at ~6.5 miles/hour, and I thought I'd just add a minute of running each workout day (which for me is every other day) Is that a bad way to do it? Should I work at 20 for a while and get comfortable and then go for a bigger jump? Something else?
It's definitely possible to build strength in the weight room as well as run. The thing is you can't be great at both if you are trying to bulk up with a lot of muscle and run a bunch of miles at the same time. However, there are good strength programs out there that cater to distance runners (and they are not all light weight/high rep stuff).
What are your goals for running? Is it for fun, fitness, maybe competition sometime down the road? This will determine what you should be doing and how you go about doing it. If you're new to running then be sure to build up your mileage very slowly. Just don't go up more than 10% every other week and always listen to your body.
On December 22 2011 09:30 spedFIGHT wrote: I never thought I was capable of running long distance (always a sprinter in high school) but 3 months ago I met a woman who put a hungerous desire in me to get my body in top shape. I've gone from running out of breath at 1km to running 6km(3.7 miles) in 32 mins and still feeling ready for more. Nobody is except from being able to run!
My experience is that I started getting sore knees when I began because I ran twice a day. I'm not having that problem anymore because I made an effort to learn a proper running form and I limit running to once a day. Anybody have ideas for how I could safely kick it up a notch to get more cardio fitness and use more calories? I'm thinking more speed but that doesn't sound right.
The two best methods I know of for improving cardio fitness are long runs or HIIT. Long runs are just what you expect, running longer than you normally do and really being a distance runner. We're all capable of this, human beings were designed to run.
HIIT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training) involves sprinting workouts that generally go a) run as hard as you can for x amount of time, then b) rest for 1/2 x, then repeat. HIIT makes your body burn more calories after the workout because of the intensity and also improves your endurance. However HIIT is incredibly injury prone and if you wanna try it, definitely ease your way into it by doing shorter/less intervals than normal programs include.
Personally I'd recommend long runs if your legs are still prone to soreness. HIIT may be too intense while your body builds its running strength. You can make long runs harder by running 5 minute kilometers instead of 5:30 minute kilometers, etc.
If being a fast runner is your goal HIIT (in isolation) is a terrible way to go. Intense interval training largely focuses on anaerobic metabolism, economy of motion, and increased lactate tolerance. All of which DO improve your ability to run faster. However, the benefits from this type of training is usually maxed out in 4-8 weeks. After that you have no where left to turn in the interval department to get faster.
Where then do you go? The answer: aerobic running. There are various types of aerobic running: easy runs, long runs, tempo runs, fartleks (depending on type), marathon pace running, recovery runs, etc. These are the bread in butter. Aerobic improvement can continue over weeks, months, years, even decades. These include benefits such as greater capillary density, increased mitochondrial density, better calcium delivery to muscles, increased stroke volume, etc.
As a result the way you train for distance is periodization. You do predominately aerobic training, which is not all long, slow distance. Shorter faster tempo runs, light hill repeats, marathon pace running, all of these are not what I would call long slow running. Doing just slow running is far from optimal because while you do get some aerobic benefits you by and large teach your body to run well slowly, not get faster. As you get a few months out from your target races you then "sharpen" and focus on anerobic metabolism and economy at speed. In short, you use the greater aerobic capacity and teach your body to run fast. After a couple months of this and your main competition you go back to base training and increase your overall aerobic capacity so you can return to the next round of hard training and be even more powerful aerobically and run even faster.
Aerobic training is the "body of the cake so to speak" and HIIT/interval training is the "icing" on the cake. One without the other will never result in great running.
On December 22 2011 13:28 GuiltyJerk wrote: So I've just started getting a little more into running, and I have 2 questions for you fine folks
1. Is it possible to be a runner and still do strength-building weight lifting like what's talked about in most of the rest of this forum? 2. I started by running 20 minutes today at ~6.5 miles/hour, and I thought I'd just add a minute of running each workout day (which for me is every other day) Is that a bad way to do it? Should I work at 20 for a while and get comfortable and then go for a bigger jump? Something else?
Yes. How how you focus your eating will determine what sort of muscle gains you see. With a good caloric surplus you will still have muscle/mass gain. If you just want to be a little more stronger/faster from running then eating more calorically neutral will prevent you from gaining mass. You'll still get stronger due to neuromuscular adaptations, though the gains will be slower than with a caloric surplus and ultimately less.
There is a point of diminished returns. As running volume gets higher it does limit the ability to gain muscle. As you start to hit probably 40+ mpw you start to see some of this. Running volumes in excess of 70-100+ mpw make it very difficult to see significant gains in mass.
On December 22 2011 13:28 GuiltyJerk wrote: So I've just started getting a little more into running, and I have 2 questions for you fine folks
1. Is it possible to be a runner and still do strength-building weight lifting like what's talked about in most of the rest of this forum? 2. I started by running 20 minutes today at ~6.5 miles/hour, and I thought I'd just add a minute of running each workout day (which for me is every other day) Is that a bad way to do it? Should I work at 20 for a while and get comfortable and then go for a bigger jump? Something else?
It's definitely possible to build strength in the weight room as well as run. The thing is you can't be great at both if you are trying to bulk up with a lot of muscle and run a bunch of miles at the same time. However, there are good strength programs out there that cater to distance runners (and they are not all light weight/high rep stuff).
What are your goals for running? Is it for fun, fitness, maybe competition sometime down the road? This will determine what you should be doing and how you go about doing it. If you're new to running then be sure to build up your mileage very slowly. Just don't go up more than 10% every other week and always listen to your body.
Keep us updated and enjoy your running!
It's mostly for fun, and I'm in martial arts so I want to improve my cardiovascular endurance for my upcoming test (couple months down the line) Although I guess I could just do the shit that I'll need to do at my test
On December 22 2011 13:28 GuiltyJerk wrote: So I've just started getting a little more into running, and I have 2 questions for you fine folks
1. Is it possible to be a runner and still do strength-building weight lifting like what's talked about in most of the rest of this forum? 2. I started by running 20 minutes today at ~6.5 miles/hour, and I thought I'd just add a minute of running each workout day (which for me is every other day) Is that a bad way to do it? Should I work at 20 for a while and get comfortable and then go for a bigger jump? Something else?
Yes. How how you focus your eating will determine what sort of muscle gains you see. With a good caloric surplus you will still have muscle/mass gain. If you just want to be a little more stronger/faster from running then eating more calorically neutral will prevent you from gaining mass. You'll still get stronger due to neuromuscular adaptations, though the gains will be slower than with a caloric surplus and ultimately less.
There is a point of diminished returns. As running volume gets higher it does limit the ability to gain muscle. As you start to hit probably 40+ mpw you start to see some of this. Running volumes in excess of 70-100+ mpw make it very difficult to see significant gains in mass.
I once again need your expertise! I'm back home in my native country Sweden, which is a lot colder than my resident country China. I don't want to stop running the month I am home because I was doing really good in China lately. This morning, I went for a run in -10c and it was TOO FUCKING COLD. When I got home after 6km my lungs hurt a little and my throat felt weird.
Are there any general tips for running in a very cold climate? Any particular clothes you recommend? I really dont want to stop running so any tips would be helpful.
Dress like an onion. Long underwear, long tight, maybe thicker socks, longsleeve, hat and gloves should be enough. Feeling cold during the first15 minutes is recommended but once you get warm it should be fine. Dont stretch before running, just start slow and progress.
Good news from my side: 18:57 5k on my first street run ever. (my old PR was on track) I doubted that it could work but did this with higher mileage and only 1 workout per week for 2 months.
On December 31 2011 18:45 borny wrote: Hello L_master and other knowledgeable runners!
I once again need your expertise! I'm back home in my native country Sweden, which is a lot colder than my resident country China. I don't want to stop running the month I am home because I was doing really good in China lately. This morning, I went for a run in -10c and it was TOO FUCKING COLD. When I got home after 6km my lungs hurt a little and my throat felt weird.
Are there any general tips for running in a very cold climate? Any particular clothes you recommend? I really dont want to stop running so any tips would be helpful.
I don't know how you're breathing, but if you breathe in through your mouth try breathing in through your nose and breathing out through your mouth. If you already do that then I have no other advice.
Is your current PR still the 18:19 shown in the leaderboard?
Almost 2 minutes would be crazy in less than a year. In Germany that would be like from ~top15 finisher in public races to a lower tier elite racer.
Definitely possible from judging all the work you put it/what you write here, dont get me wrong on that but i always thought that progress comes very slowly and is somewhat stagnant at a certain level.
My goals for 2012 are pretty simple:
18:15 in spring/summer sub18 in fall Get in shape for 10k races (still, i didnt race a single one)
On January 02 2012 18:43 Occultus wrote: Is your current PR still the 18:19 shown in the leaderboard?
Almost 2 minutes would be crazy in less than a year. In Germany that would be like from ~top15 finisher in public races to a lower tier elite racer.
Definitely possible from judging all the work you put it/what you write here, dont get me wrong on that but i always thought that progress comes very slowly and is somewhat stagnant at a certain level.
My goals for 2012 are pretty simple:
18:15 in spring/summer sub18 in fall Get in shape for 10k races (still, i didnt race a single one)
Yes, it's quite ambitious. However, I'm still a good 15 pounds, possibly even more, over my ideal racing weight. I've been seeing an approximately 2 seconds per mile improvement with each pound I've lost. If this holds true, the weight loss alone could easily chip 1:00-1:30 off my current time, meaning I'd need to improve by 30-50 seconds in 8 months; which is by no means unheard of.
Progress does slow, but many people keep up steady improvements 4,6, even 8 or more years after they continue to run. It's not to uncommon for a HSer to go from 19 -> 16 flat in HS; and then drop into the 14's over his our years of college. I don't know how long you have been training, or at what intensity/volume, but depending on circumstances there is a good chance you would be able to shave at least :30 seconds, if not 1:00+, over the course of the year. Like anything though, improvement is unpredictable and inconsistent. Sometimes you might steadily improve for a year only to then plateau for a 9 months, then suddenly bust out a 40 second 5K PR. Or some people, Galen Rupp being a good example, continue to improve steadily every year. I think the key to goal setting is making smart goals that you think can be reasonably achieved, but understanding that things don't always happen as drawn up and not being discouraged if you don't hit your season/year goals.
Either way though, since it is a very optimistic goal I won't be disappointed at all if I don't get it. It's much more important to me that I get in good, consistent, smart training through the year as opposed to obsessing over an arbitrary time goal.
Im running for roughly 7 months, since october i have a coach. Dont know if starting from zero with 20 years (which is my age) is too late to become REALLY good like 15:xx-16:00. I have so high ambitions and am really impatient, wanna win races right now.
On January 02 2012 09:51 L_Master wrote: Got the new year off to a solid start with 9.5 in the morning and a really good feeling 5 in the evening.
Goals for 2012:
Spring - Sub 5:00 mile Fall - Sub 16:30 5K Weight: Down to 140 from 155 or so I am at now 3,500+ miles
Damnnnnn how old are you? 140lbs is lighter than a feather!
22. 5'8" and 140 is not that light. It's scarcely below the middle range of the "healthy" portion of the BMI scale. To quote Mark Whetmore I will not look like "a skeleton with a condom pulled over it" at that weight. I expect this will be enough to keep my current muscle (I'm definitely don't look like someone who spends hours in the gym each day, but I'm no twig either) but get my down to a very lean body fat.
To give you an idea this is Ryan Hall, who is a full 3 inches taller and 10 pounds lighter than I am aiming for (possibly NSFW): + Show Spoiler +
That would be the equivalent of me weighing 115. 140 is ALOT heavier and fuller look than someone like a Ryan Hall.
On January 03 2012 02:16 Occultus wrote: Im running for roughly 7 months, since october i have a coach. Dont know if starting from zero with 20 years (which is my age) is too late to become REALLY good like 15:xx-16:00. I have so high ambitions and am really impatient, wanna win races right now.
I'm in the same boat. Was a lazy dude during H.S. Jogged once or twice a week my first semester of college as a freshman. Second semester ran about 35 mpw average for that semester. Then I got injured and running fell by the wayside till like 7 months ago as a Junior.
And no, it's not too late at all. Some people starting in their early to mid twenties have gone on to be 13:xx runners and Olympians. I do think you miss out on some development if you aren't active in athletics (not neccessarily serious running) as a younger child but if the talent is there, it's there. Twenty is still at least 5-10 years away from your physical prime.
Out of curiosity how fast can you run in the 100m and/or open 400m?
On January 02 2012 09:51 L_Master wrote: Got the new year off to a solid start with 9.5 in the morning and a really good feeling 5 in the evening.
Goals for 2012:
Spring - Sub 5:00 mile Fall - Sub 16:30 5K Weight: Down to 140 from 155 or so I am at now 3,500+ miles
Damnnnnn how old are you? 140lbs is lighter than a feather!
22. 5'8" and 140 is not that light. It's scarcely below the middle range of the "healthy" portion of the BMI scale. To quote Mark Whetmore I will not look like "a skeleton with a condom pulled over it" at that weight. I expect this will be enough to keep my current muscle (I'm definitely don't look like someone who spends hours in the gym each day, but I'm no twig either) but get my down to a very lean body fat.
To give you an idea this is Ryan Hall, who is a full 3 inches taller and 10 pounds lighter than I am aiming for (possibly NSFW): + Show Spoiler +
That would be the equivalent of me weighing 115. 140 is ALOT heavier and fuller look than someone like a Ryan Hall.
Doing calculations I'm 22, roughly 165lbs and 5'9'' which is supposedly borderline overweight. Which is why I hate the BMI scale. I'm fairly muscular, but that's because I play Aussie Rules. I dunno, 63kg just seems light, even for a runner.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LYYC_fXu6Hw/To5R3T-oBYI/AAAAAAAABhQ/ofCSA7_08kk/s1600/Ryan+Hall+Nude+ESPN+Magazine.jpg)
