EPTEarly April. Doesn't matter to me if it's impossible by then or not, why wouldn't the best method be my only option anyway?
Running Thread - Page 17
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shucklesors
Singapore1176 Posts
Early April. Doesn't matter to me if it's impossible by then or not, why wouldn't the best method be my only option anyway? | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 20 2011 00:22 Sm3agol wrote: I run my workouts around a 7:30 pace for long runs. Going any slower is actually physically harder for me. I ran 7 miles last Friday in 50:23, and I wasn't even that dead at the end, I could have gone quite a bit harder. I've looked at my schedule, and tried to come up with a plan to up my mileage and bit, so here's my current "plan". Sunday night - ~4-5 miles at a 7:10-ish pace. Kind of a tempo run just to put some mileage in, I usually try to really up the tempo the last mile or so. Tuesday - 2 miles of as fast as I can manage. Not sure exactly what else I should do for getting some speed training in. Thursday - I plan on running a couple really easy miles with my older...younger sister, who is currently a bit out of shape, and is trying to get into running shape( Not to be confused with my awesome-at-running younger sister who can keep up with me on all my runs, despite being almost a foot shorter) . Hopefully we will be bumping this up to 3-4 miles as she gets more in shape. Friday - Long run, 7 miles or so. I don't have a GPS watch, so I just time myself with a stopwatch, and use runningahead.com's map thingy to track my distance. That will put me at around 15 miles a week. My running pace confuses me....7:30 is very comfortable, and even feels a bit slow sometimes, but <7:00 kicks my butt pretty hard, and I can't keep it up for very long, not even 5k distance most of the time. That's not wierd at all. If your a 21:30 5K guy 7:30 pace could definitely be comfortable. What it isn't is easy. Most of your main running should be truly easy. I run close to 18 for the 5K and runs around 7:00-7:15 pace are very comfortable for me. They are not, however, easy. Even 6:40 pace can feel comfortable depending on the day and conditions. The slower runs are "physically harder" because your not used to them. If you've been running everything at 7:15-7:30 pace a pace that is actually easy, something like 8:45 pace, is going to feel pretty damn slow and strange because its ALOT slower. You'll adjust pretty quickly once you do a few runs at that pace though. That said, given your lower mileage situation its not such a big deal to do most of your running at a tempo pace like you are currently. You have a low enough volume and enough rest that you can easily handle it. As far as the schedule I'd really like to see 6 or 7 days a week of running in there. Consistency in running helps tremendously with improvement. If you truly can't find 20-30 minutes to spare on those other days though it's not like its going to wreck your chances of improvement of anything though. Sunday looks good. Tuesday is silly, weekly time trials aren't necessary. Change that to something like 8x400 in 90s per 400m with a 3 min jog recovery between intervals. You could alternate that with a longer workout like 3-4x1000m in 4:00-4:10 per 400m with a 3-4 min jogging recovery. Do a one mile warm-up and one mile cool down before and after the intervals. Easy running with the sister is good, it gives some recovery stimulus if you need it and will help get you used to running a nice, easy pace. Friday seems fine. Ideally you'd add in something like an easy 3 on Saturday and an easy 3 on Monday and then you'd be looking really good. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 20 2011 02:22 shucklesors wrote: Early April. Doesn't matter to me if it's impossible by then or not, why wouldn't the best method be my only option anyway? What's your current race ability for the 1500m/mile/2.4k? He wants to know how much time you have so he can make a recommendation about how to structure a good training plan. You don't want to be doing hard intervals like 10x400m w/60 second recovery 5 months out from a race. In light of that information I'd look to do build to 40 mpw by mid January and run that until early March. One day would be a longer run of 8-10 miles, one day a tempo run of 3-4 miles@ a comfortably hard pace (go by feel but its roughly mile race pace + 1:00-1:15), and then one day running over a hilly course OR a fartlek run of some sort. In March we can start throwing in some faster stuff to get your legs ready to move and get your body clearing lactate and handling hard intensities well. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On December 20 2011 02:22 shucklesors wrote: Early April. Doesn't matter to me if it's impossible by then or not, why wouldn't the best method be my only option anyway? For now I think you should focus on slowly building up some mileage. Very gradually build up the amount of miles you are running per week and keep track of it. 40 miles per week is ideal but if you don't get there or it takes a couple months to get there it's fine. You have to be cautious because 40 miles a week is twice what you are currently doing and one of the best ways to injure yourself if to do too much too soon. Try to increase your mileage about 3-5 miles more per week every 2-3 weeks. Also make sure you have proper footwear and running form. This is a pretty good video: http://video.about.com/running/Proper-Running-Form.htm. If you have been running like you are now for a while I think it's good to add in a long run once a week of 20-25% of your total weekly mileage. Also one workout a week for now would be good. I suggest finding an incline or hill 200-400 meters in length and run up that several times with a slow jog recovery between intervals. L_Master knows what's up. Like he said, a tempo workout or run is also something you eventually want to add in once you get your mileage up. Remember to make it a point to enjoy all your runs and the process of training. Good luck and keep us updated with progress and questions. | ||
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shucklesors
Singapore1176 Posts
Right now I'll just build more stamina I guess, till I can do 40 mpw. Thanks for the advice guys. Will update soon. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 20 2011 13:05 shucklesors wrote: 40 mpw sounds a lot.. like seriously a lot. Also, it's been about a year since I last ran more than 5 miles at a go lol.. not sure if I'm up to the task. Currently if I were to kill myself I think I'd do a mile in 6:00 flat, so my everyday pace is about what I'm doing for your suggested "hard pace" days.. maybe I'll cut that by 15 to 30 seconds in mid January. Right now I'll just build more stamina I guess, till I can do 40 mpw. Thanks for the advice guys. Will update soon. No. Cut it now AND by at least 75-90 seconds per mile. Even slower is fine. Many, many sub 5 milers do not run 7:00 pace for their general running. That will have the side benefit of making 40mpw significantly more reasonable seeming since you won't be running so hard all the time. It's also more than fast enough to get all the desired benefits from aerobic training. Then as race time gets closer you "put the icing on the cake" with the harder stuff that gets your legs having good turnover and your body's aerobic metabolism up to speed. Yes, 40 mpw per week probably does sound like alot. It's twice what you are doing now. Me going to 140 mpw sounds like alot too, but of course I'm only running 70mpw right now. That's why you build to it. Go to 25 first, which probably doesn't sound that scary. Once 25 feels good, reach out to 30. So on and so forth and before you know it you'll be running 40mpw and realize its no big deal. 40mpw, while still low mileage, is very respectable for a high-schooler. Most XC/Track guys that take distance running serious are probably running 30-40 mpw freshman year and progress to 45-70 by senior year depending on the individual. Most serious, competitive middle distance runners are running 60-90 mpw, 5K/10K guys are usually around 90-110, and most marathoners are 120-150 with the (crazy) Japanese approach frequently doing over 200 mpw. Keep in mind the main component that determines how fast you can run is how well your body acquires and delivers oxygen to the muscles. Whether you run 6:30 pace every run or 8:30 pace every run you get the same amount of these aerobic benefits. Running slower if therefore better because you get the exact same benefits but make it much easier to handle greater volumes and thus experience faster improvements. This doesn't mean you always run easy, even during base, though, as keeping some level of uptempo work is good for keeping your body efficient at faster paces and developing comfort at faster paces. As race time draws near and you have built a strong aerobic foundation you then switch to harder faster stuff. However, gains from this training are usually maximally realized in just 4-6 weeks. After that the only way to get faster is to go back again and focus on becoming aerobically stronger. | ||
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Runnin
208 Posts
On December 20 2011 00:22 Sm3agol wrote: I run my workouts around a 7:30 pace for long runs. Going any slower is actually physically harder for me. I ran 7 miles last Friday in 50:23, and I wasn't even that dead at the end, I could have gone quite a bit harder. I've looked at my schedule, and tried to come up with a plan to up my mileage and bit, so here's my current "plan". Sunday night - ~4-5 miles at a 7:10-ish pace. Kind of a tempo run just to put some mileage in, I usually try to really up the tempo the last mile or so. Tuesday - 2 miles of as fast as I can manage. Not sure exactly what else I should do for getting some speed training in. Thursday - I plan on running a couple really easy miles with my older...younger sister, who is currently a bit out of shape, and is trying to get into running shape( Not to be confused with my awesome-at-running younger sister who can keep up with me on all my runs, despite being almost a foot shorter) . Hopefully we will be bumping this up to 3-4 miles as she gets more in shape. Friday - Long run, 7 miles or so. I don't have a GPS watch, so I just time myself with a stopwatch, and use runningahead.com's map thingy to track my distance. That will put me at around 15 miles a week. My running pace confuses me....7:30 is very comfortable, and even feels a bit slow sometimes, but <7:00 kicks my butt pretty hard, and I can't keep it up for very long, not even 5k distance most of the time. Try substituting that 2 mile all out run with some mile repeats or a fartlek. Run a 6:45ish mile, jog .25-.5 miles at a slow pace to recover, then do it again. 3-4 repeats depending on how you feel. For a fartlek, try 5 x 4 minutes hard, 2 minutes easy, with the hard pace being 6:30-6:45 and the recovery somewhere around 8:00. You need to get your body used to being stressed at that faster pace, then recover and do it again. If you can't maintain the 6:45 pace it isn't a big deal as I'm just making up these numbers, but you want the effort to only slightly increase with each repetition. So, you shouldn't collapse at the end of your last repeat, but it should be hard. You should be able to fit these in in under 45 minutes. Jog a mile out to wherever you want to run (away from stoplights, some decent scenery, whatever) and then jog back when you're done. Speed work doesn't mean just running a fast 2 miles and calling it a day, you want to "practice" running at a faster pace. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
On December 13 2011 15:47 L_Master wrote: Just hit 2000 miles for the year! Really pleased with this since I didn't get back to running until late in April Congrats! How much do you run per week? | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 20 2011 14:27 Keyboard Warrior wrote: Congrats! How much do you run per week? Been between 65-75 mpw here the past few months. | ||
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
I started about 6 months ago but I don't really seem to get any faster. When I run my 3 miles everyday, I am EXHAUSTED at the end of the run...not matter how long I have been doing it. I was under the impression that the 3 miles was supposed to get easier as time when on and I ran more...but it does not seem to be any easier. Any ideas as to why this run is not getting any easier to me? I run 6-7 days a week (if I skip a day, it is usually a Saturday when I am recovering from a hangover), but this is only about 1 week a month. Should I slow my speed down and do longer runs? Should I mix up the distance I run everyday? Should I do intervals and other types of running workouts? I guess my end goal is to make my 5k/10k times better. Thanks for the advice! | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On December 20 2011 20:16 Khaymus wrote: I run roughly 3 miles everyday. I have been running at the 8:30 minute mile pace for about 2 months now. I started about 6 months ago but I don't really seem to get any faster. When I run my 3 miles everyday, I am EXHAUSTED at the end of the run...not matter how long I have been doing it. I was under the impression that the 3 miles was supposed to get easier as time when on and I ran more...but it does not seem to be any easier. Any ideas as to why this run is not getting any easier to me? I run 6-7 days a week (if I skip a day, it is usually a Saturday when I am recovering from a hangover), but this is only about 1 week a month. Should I slow my speed down and do longer runs? Should I mix up the distance I run everyday? Should I do intervals and other types of running workouts? I guess my end goal is to make my 5k/10k times better. Thanks for the advice! Are you properly recovering? Do you have a way to test your fitness now relative to a few months ago? I think doing a time trial or race every once in a while is a good way to see if progress is being made. What are you goals for running? Running 3 miles almost every day works if you like running 3 miles almost every day but to become a better runner you would do much better with a real training plan. | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
 Today at training we did .4x800 in 2:40. Was hard but i managed to keep pace the whole time. Only bad thing: Did this with a fucking terrible hurting knee. Dont know why it hurt so much there wasnt even a point x where "it" happened. Googled and im 90% sure its ITB since its more like outside of my knee and only hurts when moving. /sigh | ||
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Bayloader
United States27 Posts
I've recently signed up for a Tough Mudder with a few of my College buddies (http://www.toughmudder.com) For those that don't know it's a 10-12 Mile run with 25 military style obstacles along the way. Now, I've been pretty active all of my life (played Ice Hockey from 4th Grade all the way through High School, and I did a lot of weight lifting during College to stay in shape, but slacked off my senior year  ).Now, I've never been one to really do any type of long distance running (Hockey being a much more anaerobic/sprinting focused sport), so what I'm really worried about for the Tough Mudder is being able to do the distance running. I've started off running 3-4 times a week trying to do 3 miles at a 10-12 min pace. But, the last two times I've gone running if I up my pace a tiny bit (around 9:30 mile) I get a deep, cramping pain in my tibialis anterior muscle on my right leg (this does not happen on my left) after about .75 miles run. I do a warm up and stretch before running, and it's not a problem of hydration. If I stop running, stretch the muscle out and decrease the pace down to 11-12 minute miles I'm able to complete them just fine. Should I just stay with the slower paces? Some people have told me this pain could be caused by tight calf muscles, so I'm making sure to stretch them out when I can. Also a side question: what's a good MPW to work up to for something like this? Thank you so much for any response, this thread has already been such a great resource and help. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 21 2011 09:21 Bayloader wrote: Hey Guys! I've recently signed up for a Tough Mudder with a few of my College buddies (http://www.toughmudder.com) For those that don't know it's a 10-12 Mile run with 25 military style obstacles along the way. Now, I've been pretty active all of my life (played Ice Hockey from 4th Grade all the way through High School, and I did a lot of weight lifting during College to stay in shape, but slacked off my senior year ).Now, I've never been one to really do any type of long distance running (Hockey being a much more anaerobic/sprinting focused sport), so what I'm really worried about for the Tough Mudder is being able to do the distance running. I've started off running 3-4 times a week trying to do 3 miles at a 10-12 min pace. But, the last two times I've gone running if I up my pace a tiny bit (around 9:30 mile) I get a deep, cramping pain in my tibialis anterior muscle on my right leg (this does not happen on my left) after about .75 miles run. I do a warm up and stretch before running, and it's not a problem of hydration. If I stop running, stretch the muscle out and decrease the pace down to 11-12 minute miles I'm able to complete them just fine. Should I just stay with the slower paces? Some people have told me this pain could be caused by tight calf muscles, so I'm making sure to stretch them out when I can. Also a side question: what's a good MPW to work up to for something like this? Thank you so much for any response, this thread has already been such a great resource and help. I'm not really that knowledgeable about aches/pains/injuries so I can't comment as much there. However, since it seems to subside after you get loosened up and stretched out your probably okay to keep running. General rule of thumb is if the discomfort worsens as you run then its advisable to stop running on it. If it stays the same you can proceed with caution, and if it subsides your generally okay to run through it. As far as the race if you can work up to 30-40 mpw per week with a couple of longer runs of maybe 8-10 miles you'll complete it easily. You could probably complete it just fine right now, though you'd probably be pretty spent at the end. It's always easier in a race because you have the adrenaline and the general raised energy of the event. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 21 2011 06:14 Occultus wrote: Good and bad news folks Today at training we did .4x800 in 2:40. Was hard but i managed to keep pace the whole time. Only bad thing: Did this with a fucking terrible hurting knee. Dont know why it hurt so much there wasnt even a point x where "it" happened. Googled and im 90% sure its ITB since its more like outside of my knee and only hurts when moving. /sigh If I understand what happened right (knee started hurting during/before workout, you pressed on), and you probably know it too, running through all the pain was fairly stupid. If it just started hurting at the end; well hopefully with RICE you can be right back out on the warpath soon enough. I know it can be hard to do, but always, always, always listen to your body. If something starts hurting during a run and starts getting noticeably worse bag it if its a workout, and drop the pace slower if its just a regular run. If it doesn't subside quickly just walk it in. It's just not worth getting sidelined for several weeks, or god forbid months, just to get in those last 2 reps of an interval workout. I learned this the hard way and sidelined myself for about two months a year and a half ago or so. Went out for a run, started to get some light discomfort in the Achilles tendon and kept running. Started to really hurt, kept going. The last mile or so it got so excruciating that it was unbearable to run, or even walk on, and I had to awkwardly hobble back. Somehow I didn't rupture the damn thing but it took two months to heal to the point where I could run on it again. Even since I play the ultra conservative game. If I start feeling some discomfort and it gets worse at any point during the run I stop and walk in. If discomfort starts and doesn't go away I stop and walk in. Yea, I probably have given up on more runs than I strictly need to but its not worth weeks or months off to get in those extra three miles. I'm lucky though in that so far I don't have any significant history of injuries and very rarely even have nagging aches or random discomfort. | ||
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
Edit: The initial reasoning behind resting every second day is because I do weights those days. | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
On December 21 2011 12:30 AnxiousHippo wrote: How do you properly recover? At the moment I'm doing 3km every second day in 15 minutes and I don't know how quickly I can increase my mileage without risking injury. Do I even need to rest every second day? Edit: The initial reasoning behind resting every second day is because I do weights those days. No, you dont need to rest every second day. Try to start with 3-4 runs a week SLOWER than 5:00 pace and run more than 3km (maybe like 5-7) If youre just running for general fitness you should be fine with that. @Master You read it right, im stupid. If i was alone i would have stopped but it was the only workout i have together with my mates and coach so it all motivated me to fight this through. But all in all it was just too much running on this nasty 200m incline track, guess you know what i mean. 4 out of 8 times on this shit and also doing my long jog there is not the best idea. Its my left knee hurting so that should be the reason. I hope sooo much that its only an irritation thing and nothing damaged. Still hurts but only when going stairs or lifting my knee. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 21 2011 12:30 AnxiousHippo wrote: How do you properly recover? At the moment I'm doing 3km every second day in 15 minutes and I don't know how quickly I can increase my mileage without risking injury. Do I even need to rest every second day? Edit: The initial reasoning behind resting every second day is because I do weights those days. No you definitely don't need rest breaks. It's perfectly fine to run 6 or 7 times every week; in fact the majority of elite runners run 12+ times per week. As far as proper recovery it's basically making sure you don't always hammer. You can have a couple harder workouts a week and a longer run and be totally fine. However, if your a 6:00 miler and on your non workout days your doing your runs at 7:15 pace your just not going to recover because its much to hard. Basically it's a combination of listening to how your body feels (if your constantly mega-fatigued back off a little on pace and mileage) and not hammering workouts all the time/keeping your easy run days actually easy. For mileage increase there is no hard and fast rule. This year I went from zero (though I had done 30-40 mpw for a few months about a year and a half ago) to 70 mpw in the span of about 3 months. Jumped in at about 45-50. You need to listen to your body. If things start hurting then don't be afraid to take and off day or two and drop the mileage about. Same goes for constant fatigue. If you start getting really tired all the time, irritable, not sleeping well, etc, you might want to consider throwing in an easy down week with like half the mileage you have been doing. | ||
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
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spedFIGHT
Australia3 Posts
My experience is that I started getting sore knees when I began because I ran twice a day. I'm not having that problem anymore because I made an effort to learn a proper running form and I limit running to once a day. Anybody have ideas for how I could safely kick it up a notch to get more cardio fitness and use more calories? I'm thinking more speed but that doesn't sound right. | ||
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