EPTRunning Thread - Page 15
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Really pleased with this since I didn't get back to running until late in April | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
On December 13 2011 15:47 L_Master wrote: Just hit 2000 miles for the year! Really pleased with this since I didn't get back to running until late in April If only there were a like button on TL.  Congrats! That's amazing. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Should be doable, especially as I really get into gear working on these last 10-15 pounds as I try to move from 153 down to about 140 or so. Dieting is the worst part of the process though, especially when your trying to run decent mileage and like to eat as much as I do. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
How do you go about working towards a goal like that. Currently running about ~10-12 miles a week, sometimes just a bit more if I have time. 6'3", very skinny and athletic, I know I have the build for it, I just can't seem to break the 22:00 mark consistently without killing myself. Am I just not running enough? | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:51 Sm3agol wrote: 21:30 5k...I want that down to a 19:30 5k. How do you go about working towards a goal like that. Currently running about ~10-12 miles a week, sometimes just a bit more if I have time. 6'3", very skinny and athletic, I know I have the build for it, I just can't seem to break the 22:00 mark consistently without killing myself. Am I just not running enough? To be brutally honest, yes. 10 miles a week is nothing. Literally nothing. Maybe that's enough for a tiny bit of health benefit here or there but essentially you aren't doing anything at all. 3-4 miles 3x per week just isn't going to get you anywhere unless your coming off the couch completely sedentary for 5 years or something. I'd aim to work towards getting to 30-40 miles per week by late Jan/early Feb; though you can increase faster if all is going well. That's still fairly low mileage but more than enough to see good improvements on. Once you have adjusted to the mileage make sure your not just doing all easy running. Throw in a tempo or fartlek once or twice a week and some strides after runs. As you get closer to goal race you can start throwing in some interval sessions: things like 3-5x1K @ 4:00 min/K w 3-4min recovery or 10x400 @ 85-90 seconds per lap w/400m jog recovery. | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
You can look out for standard 6-12 week plans in the internet. They are not perfect cause they dont fit your needs and the current weather perfectly (atm my pace is 10 sec slower than during the spring and summer because its off-season and you got all the warm clothes on and your body is in preparation mood) but for someone who just wants to get a little bit faster it should work. Everything up to 18:xx is possible with that. If you really wanna improve...well you really need to seek advice in clubs/teams etc with real coaches. Trust me, you tell yourself "oh right ill just improve this and that and im fine" but you simply wont because you dont have the view on yourself and running in general like coaches or athletes who do times like 15 minutes. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On December 15 2011 05:01 L_Master wrote: To be brutally honest, yes. 10 miles a week is nothing. Literally nothing. Maybe that's enough for a tiny bit of health benefit here or there but essentially you aren't doing anything at all. 3-4 miles 3x per week just isn't going to get you anywhere unless your coming off the couch completely sedentary for 5 years or something. I'd aim to work towards getting to 30-40 miles per week by late Jan/early Feb; though you can increase faster if all is going well. That's still fairly low mileage but more than enough to see good improvements on. Once you have adjusted to the mileage make sure your not just doing all easy running. Throw in a tempo or fartlek once or twice a week and some strides after runs. As you get closer to goal race you can start throwing in some interval sessions: things like 3-5x1K @ 4:00 min/K w 3-4min recovery or 10x400 @ 85-90 seconds per lap w/400m jog recovery. Hmmm. The thing is...at my current rate, I feel like I am really close to breaking 21...and have been seeing steady, although slow improvement..and only recently have I even gotten up to ~10-12 miles a week. I got my current "official" 5k time of 22:00 exact off of running about 5 miles a week, with very little extra athletic activities throughout the week, so you must pardon me if my thinking I can get to 19:30 without running 60 miles a week is a little foolish, but that just seems like really high mileage to me. Obviously, you are much better than me at running, and maybe you are right about needing that much to hit a 19 minute 5k...If so, I guess I'll have to resign myself to not ever running a 19 minute 5k, because I just don't have an extra 7 hours a week I can put into running. :-( | ||
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Crawler
Estonia248 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:26 Sm3agol wrote: Hmmm. The thing is...at my current rate, I feel like I am really close to breaking 21...and have been seeing steady, although slow improvement..and only recently have I even gotten up to ~10-12 miles a week. I got my current "official" 5k time of 22:00 exact off of running about 5 miles a week, with very little extra athletic activities throughout the week, so you must pardon me if my thinking I can get to 19:30 without running 60 miles a week is a little foolish, but that just seems like really high mileage to me. Obviously, you are much better than me at running, and maybe you are right about needing that much to hit a 19 minute 5k...If so, I guess I'll have to resign myself to not ever running a 19 minute 5k, because I just don't have an extra 7 hours a week I can put into running. :-( You asked if you didn't run enough, he answered and suddenly you turn so offensive like he forced you to run more. If your current progress pleases you then keep doing what you do. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:33 Crawler wrote: You asked if you didn't run enough, he answered and suddenly you turn so offensive like he forced you to run more. If your current progress pleases you then keep doing what you do. All I'm saying is going from 10 miles a week to 60+ is more of a lifestyle change, not a running change. And apparently you didn't read my last sentence? I'm not sure why you think my post was offensive...If it is according to Master, I apologize.... To clarify..... I don't have enough time to put into running to do 60+ miles a week. I guess I'll just see how far I can go without upping my mileage too far, and that will just have to be it. If I never reach 19 minutes for a 5k, then so be it until I have more time. I had no idea that a 19 minute 5k would require you to put 60 hours a week in, | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:26 Sm3agol wrote: Hmmm. The thing is...at my current rate, I feel like I am really close to breaking 21...and have been seeing steady, although slow improvement..and only recently have I even gotten up to ~10-12 miles a week. I got my current "official" 5k time of 22:00 exact off of running about 5 miles a week, with very little extra athletic activities throughout the week, so you must pardon me if my thinking I can get to 19:30 without running 60 miles a week is a little foolish, but that just seems like really high mileage to me. Obviously, you are much better than me at running, and maybe you are right about needing that much to hit a 19 minute 5k...If so, I guess I'll have to resign myself to not ever running a 19 minute 5k, because I just don't have an extra 7 hours a week I can put into running. :-( Oh god no. You certainly don't need that much to hit 19:30 or 19 by any means. In fact, you can never for any person say you need to do X mpw to run Y time. Some people can run in the 15's off of 15-20 mpw, other people run 70 mpw and struggle to break 20. What I am saying is that 10 mpw is extremely low mileage, basically not worth mentioning. If your getting any benefit from it at all its probably more neuro-muscular coordination and efficiency and you probably won't benefit signifcantly for much longer. Running for 25 minutes three times a week is much below any of the recommended guidelines for general physical activity or cardiovascular health. I'm in no way saying you need to go out and run 50,60,70, or 100 miles per week. If you just want to be fit and a decent runner there is certainly no need for such mileage. I'm just trying to make it clear that really 10mpw will do next to nothing for your running and next to nothing for your fitness. Running 10mpw per week is like going into the gym, putting some weight on the bench press, doing 5 reps, and leaving. You might gain a little coordination and see some initial gains from that but not your not going to gain muscle or make significant fitness gains. Bumping that up to 25-30 would be MASSIVELY better and more than enough to improve your fitness consistently. The difference between 10 mpw and 30 mpw or even 20 mpw is incredible. That extra 10 or 15 miles will make all the difference in the world in your training and improvement. As far as breaking 19/19:30 your close and you aren't. Sub 21 is no where near 19 or even 19:30. In the sense of time you basically want to run how fast you can currently run for the mile and do it for three miles. HOWEVER, you just started running by the sound of it. This means your likely to see rapid and impressive gains in your times and it's not like you have been training hard for 3 years to go from 21:30 -> 21:00. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see you run sub 19:30 in three or four months if you ran consistently 20-30 miles a week. Basically what I am trying to say is that while 19:30 is leagues away from a 21 flat, given what you have described and your history it is a very realistic and achievable short-term running goal. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
Say you slowly build up to 25 miles per week in the future. Maybe do a longerish run of 6-7 miles one day a week, a tempo run or workout done all at once or broken into intervals totaling 3-4 miles, a hill or faster interval workout of 2-3 miles, and two easy runs of about 4 miles each. Then you do a 2-3 mile warm up/easy run before your two workout days and you can get a solid, well rounded 25 mile week off of 5 days, 5 hours a week. | ||
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EienShinwa
United States655 Posts
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
On December 16 2011 14:39 EienShinwa wrote: I don't know if this question is stupid or not, but should you only run in running shoes,tennis shoes, sports shoes? I run all the time with skateboard shoes and my feet sometimes hurt. Is this cause I'm running with skateboard shoes or I'm running the wrong way? I think you should stick with running shoes. Either regular ones or minimalist ones (Vibram 5 Fingers, ect). Other shoes probably will change your natural biomechanics in a way that your body will not agree with. Regular running shoes do actually do this but they are sort of made to do so so it's okay. It is also never a bad idea to check your form. Ask back here or PM me if you need more advice. Happy running! | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 16 2011 13:16 AirbladeOrange wrote: Also consider the type and quality of the miles you are running. It's easier to get away with running lower mileage if you are doing workouts and training smart. Say you slowly build up to 25 miles per week in the future. Maybe do a longerish run of 6-7 miles one day a week, a tempo run or workout done all at once or broken into intervals totaling 3-4 miles, a hill or faster interval workout of 2-3 miles, and two easy runs of about 4 miles each. Then you do a 2-3 mile warm up/easy run before your two workout days and you can get a solid, well rounded 25 mile week off of 5 days, 5 hours a week. +1. | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
You can see this in every public 5k running event. There are the just for fun runners who do something around 25-30 minutes, the people who do like 6-8 week workout shedules to prepare and just have a good general fitness level who are going to run something like a high 19-25. And there are the people who ran a high mileage for a long period of time and cross the line around 17 minutes. If your only goal is to hit 19:30. Set a date and train 20-25 miles per week and look for a 6-8week shedule to give you the last brush before date x. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On December 16 2011 11:20 L_Master wrote: Oh god no. You certainly don't need that much to hit 19:30 or 19 by any means. In fact, you can never for any person say you need to do X mpw to run Y time. Some people can run in the 15's off of 15-20 mpw, other people run 70 mpw and struggle to break 20. What I am saying is that 10 mpw is extremely low mileage, basically not worth mentioning. If your getting any benefit from it at all its probably more neuro-muscular coordination and efficiency and you probably won't benefit signifcantly for much longer. Running for 25 minutes three times a week is much below any of the recommended guidelines for general physical activity or cardiovascular health. I'm in no way saying you need to go out and run 50,60,70, or 100 miles per week. If you just want to be fit and a decent runner there is certainly no need for such mileage. I'm just trying to make it clear that really 10mpw will do next to nothing for your running and next to nothing for your fitness. Running 10mpw per week is like going into the gym, putting some weight on the bench press, doing 5 reps, and leaving. You might gain a little coordination and see some initial gains from that but not your not going to gain muscle or make significant fitness gains. Bumping that up to 25-30 would be MASSIVELY better and more than enough to improve your fitness consistently. The difference between 10 mpw and 30 mpw or even 20 mpw is incredible. That extra 10 or 15 miles will make all the difference in the world in your training and improvement. As far as breaking 19/19:30 your close and you aren't. Sub 21 is no where near 19 or even 19:30. In the sense of time you basically want to run how fast you can currently run for the mile and do it for three miles. HOWEVER, you just started running by the sound of it. This means your likely to see rapid and impressive gains in your times and it's not like you have been training hard for 3 years to go from 21:30 -> 21:00. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see you run sub 19:30 in three or four months if you ran consistently 20-30 miles a week. Basically what I am trying to say is that while 19:30 is leagues away from a 21 flat, given what you have described and your history it is a very realistic and achievable short-term running goal. Thanks for this post, that is very encouraging. What kind of schedule would you use as far as running? Is Say you slowly build up to 25 miles per week in the future. Maybe do a longerish run of 6-7 miles one day a week, a tempo run or workout done all at once or broken into intervals totaling 3-4 miles, a hill or faster interval workout of 2-3 miles, and two easy runs of about 4 miles each. Then you do a 2-3 mile warm up/easy run before your two workout days and you can get a solid, well rounded 25 mile week off of 5 days, 5 hours a week. this a decent-ish workout plan for getting 20-ish miles a week in and optimizing it? Currently, what I do is run a long of 6 miles once a week, with two or three 2-ish mile runs in the middle of the week, at varying tempos. For example I ran 2 miles last night, and started fairly easy, but slowly ramped up my speed until I was sprinting for the last 3/4 mile or so. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 16 2011 22:06 Occultus wrote: I think the 19 minute mark is something like a magic hurdle. You can break it with low mileage and in relativlely short time but for everything faster like 17 or fast 18 youll need consistent mileage and TIME to build more blood vessels, to strenghten the heart, lungs and everything. (At least 20 months) You can see this in every public 5k running event. There are the just for fun runners who do something around 25-30 minutes, the people who do like 6-8 week workout shedules to prepare and just have a good general fitness level who are going to run something like a high 19-25. And there are the people who ran a high mileage for a long period of time and cross the line around 17 minutes. If your only goal is to hit 19:30. Set a date and train 20-25 miles per week and look for a 6-8week shedule to give you the last brush before date x. By and large this is pretty true. But there are definitely people who can pop out time in the 18s, 17s, or even 16s just doing 20-30 mpw for a while. Plenty of HSers do that kind of mileage for their entire career and end up with times in the 17s or 16s. That often gets labeled "talent" and while it does often correlate some of them only improve into the high 15's even when they do add alot more mileage; and some people who start with good mileage keep improving every year until they are running 14's or better. Lawi Lalang, NCAA champ (10K cross) in 28:44 I think only is doing about 50 mpw right now which is pretty dang low for high level collegiate running and for someone running those sorts of time. @Smagol - Yea what airblade had down was good. Something like one tempo, one interval, and some sort of longer run (20-25% of weekly mileage) is a pretty good cookie cutter type system. Tempo run is roughly 5K pace - 30 seconds, but its a feel thing. A "comfortably hard" effort. You could definitely slow down and be happy to do so, but at the same time your not in intense discomfort and can easily continue clipping on. It's about lactate processing and running fast but smooth. Fast but straining like a race is not the goal. These should last 20-30 minutes. You can do longer tempos at slightly slower paces, but with your target race and mileage limits, I would stick to the shorter 3-4 mile tempos. There are different type of intervals but you can kinda break them down into three types: 1)200-400m intervals with long recoveries (something like 400m @ mile pace w 400m slow jog recovery) - These are for speed development and neuromuscular coordination to faster running. Makes running fast more natural and economic 2)400m to maybe 1600m intervals with medium recovery - lactate clearance/tolerance is the purpose here. Unlike #1 this workout can feel harder since your going into anaerobic debt on each interval. Medium recovery is used so that you don't end up accumulating lactate over the course of the workout. 3)400m-3K intervals with short recovery - Sustained high level effort at top aerobic capacities. The short rest brings you back to where you can just do the next interval as fast or slightly faster than the first one. Allows you to spend alot of time at a high end aerobic pace without going deep into oxygen debt. Arguably the bread and butter of intervals especially for someone racing 10K, and to a lesser extent, the 5K. Hills are hills. They give you intervals benefits while improving your strength and power. Generally considered good for your stride as well. You can run longer repeats up hills at 5K effort, shorter ones at mile effort, and doing 8-20 10 second sprints (like 98% of all out sprinting, think sprinting as hard as possible and then just be slightly relaxed). | ||
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Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
 Well, it has now been about a month since my last cigarette, and it is time to get back after it. For now my only goal is to run to "The Bridge" and back without dying every weekday (only about two miles) for two weeks and then revisit. I will update with my progress. Hopefully, since I am telling people (even semi-anonymous internet people) I'll be able to follow through. | ||
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