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On December 17 2011 04:28 Mr. Black wrote:I'm glad to see that this thread exists, and I'm surprised I never found it before. I worked at a high stress job for two years before leaving to do my own thing. The only way I could even get close to coping with the stress was by running (well, jogging) 2 - 5 miles a day. Luckily I live less than a five minute walk from the beautiful Town Lake Trail in Austin, Texas. I have fallen off the horse, and haven't run since late summer -- I even started smoking  Well, it has now been about a month since my last cigarette, and it is time to get back after it. For now my only goal is to run to "The Bridge" and back without dying every weekday (only about two miles) for two weeks and then revisit. I will update with my progress. Hopefully, since I am telling people (even semi-anonymous internet people) I'll be able to follow through.
Pacing, pacing, pacing. As long as you go at a nice relaxed pace you'll have no trouble with finishing the two miles. If it's feeling tough just slow down and things will take care of itself.
Good luck man!
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Had a rough semester between work and classes and pretty much stopped running. Looking to really get back at it over winter break plus a slightly lighter spring semester schedule. No real goals currently, just to get better and enjoy the runs. PS, 30 seconds after leaving my door I can be running on trails in the Rocky Mountains(I live in Utah).
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Youre one lucky boy, guess its wonderful there in the summer.
Alright, need some advice for my 5k run on 31th december. It's off season and we only did 1 faster workout per week (slow intervals, hill sprints and longer sessions 20 sec above race pace) and rest the usual 70-75% jogs so im not quite sure if i should do a faster workout to get me in shape for the race and when to do it. Dont have chances to win this (more like top 5) but i want an accaptable time to boost my confidence.
Or should i just go on with my standard training and leave this as an offseason run?
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On December 17 2011 21:00 Occultus wrote:Youre one lucky boy, guess its wonderful there in the summer. Alright, need some advice for my 5k run on 31th december. It's off season and we only did 1 faster workout per week (slow intervals, hill sprints and longer sessions 20 sec above race pace) and rest the usual 70-75% jogs so im not quite sure if i should do a faster workout to get me in shape for the race and when to do it. Dont have chances to win this (more like top 5) but i want an accaptable time to boost my confidence. Or should i just go on with my standard training and leave this as an offseason run?
Honestly, in two weeks your not going to change your fitness that much. If you want to be some 5K pace or faster stuff this week (2 weeks out) go for it. One challenging interval workout won't mess up your base training or anything. Hard workouts in the week of the race probably isn't a good idea, it will usually leave you at less than 100%.
What I would do the week of the race though, say Monday or Tuesday of race week, is some fast stuff; especially since you probably haven't been doing much, if any, stuff at race pace. I mean something like 8x200 in 30-35, speed should be whatever is fast, but comfortable. If your a 52 second 400m guy then 30's should be fine, if your more like a 60 second guy something on the 35 end is better. You want to be running fast but smooth; no straining. Recovery should be as long as you need to feel 100% fresh for the next one. It's not about working hard, it's about opening up you stride and running fast while being relaxed.
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On December 17 2011 08:35 pyrofoam wrote:
Had a rough semester between work and classes and pretty much stopped running. Looking to really get back at it over winter break plus a slightly lighter spring semester schedule. No real goals currently, just to get better and enjoy the runs. PS, 30 seconds after leaving my door I can be running on trails in the Rocky Mountains(I live in Utah).
That's badass dude. Always nice to be able to hop outside and be running on beautiful trails! Sounds like we are in the same boat since I'm in the exact same situation only on the opposite side of them
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We should do some video work like the guys in the weightlifting thread. Posting a video of your running form at 85% pace seems really nice for oneself since you see everything from a different angle and of course others can comment it aswell.
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On December 18 2011 00:42 Occultus wrote:
We should do some video work like the guys in the weightlifting thread. Posting a video of your running form at 85% pace seems really nice for oneself since you see everything from a different angle and of course others can comment it aswell.
I intend to post some video's like when I break 5 since that will be all on the track and easy to film. Maybe its because I'm a little obsessed with running but I seriously love watching people run.
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Blah I'm more out of shape than I thought. 3 miles of 400m intervals at 6:20 mile pace instead of 6:00. Maybe I should rest more next time. T_T
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On December 18 2011 10:13 dudeman001 wrote:Blah I'm more out of shape than I thought. 3 miles of 400m intervals at 6:20 mile pace instead of 6:00. Maybe I should rest more next time. T_T
What was your rest interval?
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On December 18 2011 12:02 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 10:13 dudeman001 wrote:Blah I'm more out of shape than I thought. 3 miles of 400m intervals at 6:20 mile pace instead of 6:00. Maybe I should rest more next time. T_T What was your rest interval?
Half of my running interval (so 45 seconds). I did take a 3 minute break 1/2 way through the training too.
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On December 16 2011 08:26 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:01 L_Master wrote:On December 15 2011 02:51 Sm3agol wrote:
21:30 5k...I want that down to a 19:30 5k.
How do you go about working towards a goal like that. Currently running about ~10-12 miles a week, sometimes just a bit more if I have time. 6'3", very skinny and athletic, I know I have the build for it, I just can't seem to break the 22:00 mark consistently without killing myself. Am I just not running enough? To be brutally honest, yes. 10 miles a week is nothing. Literally nothing. Maybe that's enough for a tiny bit of health benefit here or there but essentially you aren't doing anything at all. 3-4 miles 3x per week just isn't going to get you anywhere unless your coming off the couch completely sedentary for 5 years or something. I'd aim to work towards getting to 30-40 miles per week by late Jan/early Feb; though you can increase faster if all is going well. That's still fairly low mileage but more than enough to see good improvements on. Once you have adjusted to the mileage make sure your not just doing all easy running. Throw in a tempo or fartlek once or twice a week and some strides after runs. As you get closer to goal race you can start throwing in some interval sessions: things like 3-5x1K @ 4:00 min/K w 3-4min recovery or 10x400 @ 85-90 seconds per lap w/400m jog recovery. Hmmm. The thing is...at my current rate, I feel like I am really close to breaking 21...and have been seeing steady, although slow improvement..and only recently have I even gotten up to ~10-12 miles a week. I got my current "official" 5k time of 22:00 exact off of running about 5 miles a week, with very little extra athletic activities throughout the week, so you must pardon me if my thinking I can get to 19:30 without running 60 miles a week is a little foolish, but that just seems like really high mileage to me. Obviously, you are much better than me at running, and maybe you are right about needing that much to hit a 19 minute 5k...If so, I guess I'll have to resign myself to not ever running a 19 minute 5k, because I just don't have an extra 7 hours a week I can put into running. :-(
Like the others have said, if you can only manage a few hours a week, then just make sure those hours count. You shouldn't have to worry about recovery or running too hard if you have a day off between each run. When I got back into running (quit for 5 years after HS) I was also doing 3 days a week where I would just run hard every day. Intervals/hills/tempo/long run every day, don't just run for the sake of putting in miles if you are taking an entire day of recovery after.
It sounds like you're probably running your workouts at ~8:00 pace, at 10 miles a week that's only 80 minutes of running. With 3-4 workouts a week each of your runs is less than 30 minutes. If you're seeing slow and steady improvement now, keep in mind that it gets exponentially harder to lower your time the faster you get. You definitely don't have to run 60 mpw, but if you really want to hit that 19:30 you could surely find another hour in the week to at least double your mileage up to 20. 4 days a week, 30-45 minutes per run would be, in my opinion, a good goal commitment-wise. That's under 2 hours a week of running, but you'll definitely have to focus making them high quality runs.
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On December 18 2011 17:03 dudeman001 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 12:02 L_Master wrote:On December 18 2011 10:13 dudeman001 wrote:Blah I'm more out of shape than I thought. 3 miles of 400m intervals at 6:20 mile pace instead of 6:00. Maybe I should rest more next time. T_T What was your rest interval? Half of my running interval (so 45 seconds). I did take a 3 minute break 1/2 way through the training too.
That's a pretty short rest interval. Depending on how hard that felt I'd guess your somewhere between 19:30-20:30 5K shape unless that workout was very easy or really, really brutal.
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Tried to sneak in some Fartlek at race pace this morning. It went like 800m at 3:50 pace, 3 minutes easy jog, 1km at 4:03 (thats not even race pace) and i was done. Did not feel good at all.
I am really depressed now. I mean yeah, i already did 65km this week and yesterday was my 75 minutes long jog but this cant be an excuse for being so incredibly slow and weak. Not really sure if the race at New Year is really worth it. If i dont finish in under 20 minutes ill start crying at finish line
3 Months ago 19:44 and now after a lot of running even slower? I know its off season and i only did fast stuff once a week but I thought i could atleast hold my level from summer and then keep on rolling in spring.
Seems like i have to roll in another faster type of workout.
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Quick update on (trying to follow) the prescribed plan in the OP. Able to work up to able 25-30 miles a week (damn work/travel) for about 3 weeks. Did a mock 2 mile run (my benchmark) and able to knock it down 10 seconds (16: 30) and more importantly able to run more comfortable on all my runs. Follow the plan beginners and see results!
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On December 19 2011 03:36 Occultus wrote:Tried to sneak in some Fartlek at race pace this morning. It went like 800m at 3:50 pace, 3 minutes easy jog, 1km at 4:03 (thats not even race pace) and i was done. Did not feel good at all. I am really depressed now. I mean yeah, i already did 65km this week and yesterday was my 75 minutes long jog but this cant be an excuse for being so incredibly slow and weak. Not really sure if the race at New Year is really worth it. If i dont finish in under 20 minutes ill start crying at finish line 3 Months ago 19:44 and now after a lot of running even slower? I know its off season and i only did fast stuff once a week but I thought i could atleast hold my level from summer and then keep on rolling in spring. Seems like i have to roll in another faster type of workout.
Could be a bunch of things, bad patches happen. Also is 19:44 is like a PR time that means its a good race when your in peak fitness. Given that your (presumably) in a base phase right now anyway I don't think running around 20-20:30 is something to be worried about at all.
Also if you recently bumped your mileage up it's nothing too alarming that your workouts aren't on par with what you'd be expecting as your body is under new stresses and hasn't had the time to adapt, and reap the benefits of, the increased mileage.
What sort of workouts/up-tempo stuff were you doing over summer?
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Intervals from 200 to 1000m range, fast paced tempo runs 6-8km at 4
:30 pace and fartlek. 2-3 workouts per week. 20 min would be fine if I was a running for several years and 19:44 as my all time pr but I wanna do 18 flat in summer.
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Guys, I'm 16 this year (which is basically 17 considering we're more than halfway into December) and at my school the running fitness test does 2.4km (about 15 metres less than 1.5 miles).
I wanna do 8:30 for it, so I'm thinking, is 2.4km short enough for me to do sprinting intervals, or would it be better for me to build stamina off much longer distances (2 to 3 times of that) and try to cut the timing down through that? Because I feel like if you've been training a long distance at a constant pace forever you'll get a lot more used to running long distances, but cutting every single second per mile off that hurts exponentially more. What I mean is that cutting 7:00 to 6:30 per mile is waaaay easier than cutting 6:30 to 6:00.
Now that you're seeing the picture I'm seeing, whether or not it makes sense, tell me, should I be doing intervals to train speed and perhaps a little bit of stamina or go long distance all the way? Maybe even continue the long running, but cut it at a point? I don't know man.
If it helps to know, I'm doing 3 miles at 7:00 per mile right now, 7 days a week (my body is very conditioned to everyday running rather than a lot of running at one go but less days a week).
Thanks in advance!
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On December 18 2011 17:18 Runnin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 08:26 Sm3agol wrote:On December 15 2011 05:01 L_Master wrote:On December 15 2011 02:51 Sm3agol wrote:
21:30 5k...I want that down to a 19:30 5k.
How do you go about working towards a goal like that. Currently running about ~10-12 miles a week, sometimes just a bit more if I have time. 6'3", very skinny and athletic, I know I have the build for it, I just can't seem to break the 22:00 mark consistently without killing myself. Am I just not running enough? To be brutally honest, yes. 10 miles a week is nothing. Literally nothing. Maybe that's enough for a tiny bit of health benefit here or there but essentially you aren't doing anything at all. 3-4 miles 3x per week just isn't going to get you anywhere unless your coming off the couch completely sedentary for 5 years or something. I'd aim to work towards getting to 30-40 miles per week by late Jan/early Feb; though you can increase faster if all is going well. That's still fairly low mileage but more than enough to see good improvements on. Once you have adjusted to the mileage make sure your not just doing all easy running. Throw in a tempo or fartlek once or twice a week and some strides after runs. As you get closer to goal race you can start throwing in some interval sessions: things like 3-5x1K @ 4:00 min/K w 3-4min recovery or 10x400 @ 85-90 seconds per lap w/400m jog recovery. Hmmm. The thing is...at my current rate, I feel like I am really close to breaking 21...and have been seeing steady, although slow improvement..and only recently have I even gotten up to ~10-12 miles a week. I got my current "official" 5k time of 22:00 exact off of running about 5 miles a week, with very little extra athletic activities throughout the week, so you must pardon me if my thinking I can get to 19:30 without running 60 miles a week is a little foolish, but that just seems like really high mileage to me. Obviously, you are much better than me at running, and maybe you are right about needing that much to hit a 19 minute 5k...If so, I guess I'll have to resign myself to not ever running a 19 minute 5k, because I just don't have an extra 7 hours a week I can put into running. :-( Like the others have said, if you can only manage a few hours a week, then just make sure those hours count. You shouldn't have to worry about recovery or running too hard if you have a day off between each run. When I got back into running (quit for 5 years after HS) I was also doing 3 days a week where I would just run hard every day. Intervals/hills/tempo/long run every day, don't just run for the sake of putting in miles if you are taking an entire day of recovery after. It sounds like you're probably running your workouts at ~8:00 pace, at 10 miles a week that's only 80 minutes of running. With 3-4 workouts a week each of your runs is less than 30 minutes. If you're seeing slow and steady improvement now, keep in mind that it gets exponentially harder to lower your time the faster you get. You definitely don't have to run 60 mpw, but if you really want to hit that 19:30 you could surely find another hour in the week to at least double your mileage up to 20. 4 days a week, 30-45 minutes per run would be, in my opinion, a good goal commitment-wise. That's under 2 hours a week of running, but you'll definitely have to focus making them high quality runs.
I run my workouts around a 7:30 pace for long runs. Going any slower is actually physically harder for me. I ran 7 miles last Friday in 50:23, and I wasn't even that dead at the end, I could have gone quite a bit harder.
I've looked at my schedule, and tried to come up with a plan to up my mileage and bit, so here's my current "plan".
Sunday night - ~4-5 miles at a 7:10-ish pace. Kind of a tempo run just to put some mileage in, I usually try to really up the tempo the last mile or so.
Tuesday - 2 miles of as fast as I can manage. Not sure exactly what else I should do for getting some speed training in.
Thursday - I plan on running a couple really easy miles with my older...younger sister, who is currently a bit out of shape, and is trying to get into running shape( Not to be confused with my awesome-at-running younger sister who can keep up with me on all my runs, despite being almost a foot shorter) . Hopefully we will be bumping this up to 3-4 miles as she gets more in shape.
Friday - Long run, 7 miles or so.
I don't have a GPS watch, so I just time myself with a stopwatch, and use runningahead.com's map thingy to track my distance. That will put me at around 15 miles a week. My running pace confuses me....7:30 is very comfortable, and even feels a bit slow sometimes, but <7:00 kicks my butt pretty hard, and I can't keep it up for very long, not even 5k distance most of the time.
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On December 19 2011 22:49 shucklesors wrote:
Guys, I'm 16 this year (which is basically 17 considering we're more than halfway into December) and at my school the running fitness test does 2.4km (about 15 metres less than 1.5 miles).
I wanna do 8:30 for it, so I'm thinking, is 2.4km short enough for me to do sprinting intervals, or would it be better for me to build stamina off much longer distances (2 to 3 times of that) and try to cut the timing down through that? Because I feel like if you've been training a long distance at a constant pace forever you'll get a lot more used to running long distances, but cutting every single second per mile off that hurts exponentially more. What I mean is that cutting 7:00 to 6:30 per mile is waaaay easier than cutting 6:30 to 6:00.
Now that you're seeing the picture I'm seeing, whether or not it makes sense, tell me, should I be doing intervals to train speed and perhaps a little bit of stamina or go long distance all the way? Maybe even continue the long running, but cut it at a point? I don't know man.
If it helps to know, I'm doing 3 miles at 7:00 per mile right now, 7 days a week (my body is very conditioned to everyday running rather than a lot of running at one go but less days a week).
Thanks in advance!
When is your test?
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On December 19 2011 22:49 shucklesors wrote:
Guys, I'm 16 this year (which is basically 17 considering we're more than halfway into December) and at my school the running fitness test does 2.4km (about 15 metres less than 1.5 miles).
I wanna do 8:30 for it, so I'm thinking, is 2.4km short enough for me to do sprinting intervals, or would it be better for me to build stamina off much longer distances (2 to 3 times of that) and try to cut the timing down through that? Because I feel like if you've been training a long distance at a constant pace forever you'll get a lot more used to running long distances, but cutting every single second per mile off that hurts exponentially more. What I mean is that cutting 7:00 to 6:30 per mile is waaaay easier than cutting 6:30 to 6:00.
Now that you're seeing the picture I'm seeing, whether or not it makes sense, tell me, should I be doing intervals to train speed and perhaps a little bit of stamina or go long distance all the way? Maybe even continue the long running, but cut it at a point? I don't know man.
If it helps to know, I'm doing 3 miles at 7:00 per mile right now, 7 days a week (my body is very conditioned to everyday running rather than a lot of running at one go but less days a week).
Thanks in advance!
cutting every single second per mile off that hurts exponentially more. What I mean is that cutting 7:00 to 6:30 per mile is waaaay easier than cutting 6:30 to 6:00.
Yes, your correct in your thinking that the faster you get the harder it is to shave off time.
I wanna do 8:30 for it, so I'm thinking, is 2.4km short enough for me to do sprinting intervals, or would it be better for me to build stamina off much longer distances (2 to 3 times of that) and try to cut the timing down through that? Because I feel like if you've been training a long distance at a constant pace forever you'll get a lot more used to running long distances, but cutting every single second per mile off that hurts exponentially more.
Sprinting intervals? Heck no. Unless you have 100m speed slower than like 16 seconds, or 400m speed less than maybe 72-75 seconds you don't need to be improving sprinting to reach your goal.
You absolutely improve your time through distance and aerobic conditioning. Elite level runners who run the 800m/1500m usually run anywhere from 50-90 miles per week. However, your running should not be long distance at a constant pace. It should be distance with a variety of paces. Yes, the majority of your runs should be easy, aerobic runs (something like mile race pace + 2.5 minutes). However you should be doing other stuff as well, far out from your race goal the focus is generally on aerobic strength and mileage. This is called building a base. It builds a strong aerobic foundation to support faster paced, harder workouts closer to race time.
Easy running is important because it:
- Increases capillarization to muscles (oxygen can be delievered faster to muscle)
- Increases cardiac output
- Improved running economy
- increase mitochondrial density
All of this allows your body to be stronger and more efficiently able to transport oxygen to the muscles quickly, which is a necessary requirement for running fast.
The other common workouts in base type training are tempo runs (comfortably hard efforts, usually corresponds to about mile race pace + 1-1.25 min), and hill runs for strength and power.
As you get closer to the race you start adding in faster intervals to improve economy at speed, V02 max capacity, and tolerance to, and efficiency of clearing, lactate.
Maybe even continue the long running, but cut it at a point? I don't know man.
What long running is there to cut? You aren't doing any.
I am not sure how soon your 2.4km race is but I would recommend building up to running 40 miles per week, then about a month out start throwing in some faster stuff to get some turnover in your legs so your efficient and prepared for the faster pace. Overall right now you be best serve by getting out there and actually getting in some reasonable mileage as general, easy aerobic running is by far where your going to see your biggest improvements from.
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EPT
