Anybody got any good tuna recipes? Ideally something light and simple with few ingredients, but I'm willing to try something new. What do you guys suggest?
On February 08 2012 10:55 Dalguno wrote: Are sweet potatoes much different in taste than yams (taste-wise, nutritionally)? I've been eating yams, thinking they were sweet potatoes, and everyone paleo talks about sweet potatoes, and I haven't heard yams even mentioned.
Apparently most "yams" sold in U.S. supermarkets are actually sweet potatoes anyway. My local Giant never seems to have the same variety two weeks in a row, so all I can really say is that some are better than others. But I imagine the tastier ones are a little less healthy since they'll have more sugar.
On February 08 2012 10:55 Dalguno wrote: Are sweet potatoes much different in taste than yams (taste-wise, nutritionally)? I've been eating yams, thinking they were sweet potatoes, and everyone paleo talks about sweet potatoes, and I haven't heard yams even mentioned.
are you me? I was just talking to a friend about this today. fwiw we came to the conclusion that they're pretty close to each nutritionally and tastewise (at least the ones in north american supermarkets) but yam's are sweeter
On September 06 2011 00:48 eshlow wrote: Why Paleo?
The nutritional guidelines that many people from the previous TL Health and Fitness thread recommend is the Paleolithic diet.
Despite what you may have heard about the Paleo diet, it is neither low carbohydrate or high carbohydrate. It can be either depending on how many carbohydrates you eat from fruits and vegetables.
Instead, the Paleo diet focuses specifically on inclusion of high quality and nutrient rich foods upon which we evolved: fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs.
Dairy, grains, and legumes are excluded specifically because of potential detrimental aspects that these foods may on our gastroinstestinal system and subsequently the rest of our organ systems by proxy.
As an aside my personal opinion is that dairy is fine as long as you are not lactose intolerant.
Grains and legumes are touted by the government as healthy even though there is little evidence supporting these statements especially regarding fiber and nutrients as fruits and vegetables provide more of each and are healthier. Many people have heard of Celiac's disease which is characterized by chronic inflammation of the intestinal tract due to gluten, a protein in wheat and many other grains.
It was thought that in the absence of Celiac's there seemed to be little evidence to the detrimental effect of grains. However, that is changing as recent research into suggests that gluten sensitivity may exist in upwards of 2/3rds of the population. Another. In particular, gliadin protein seems to specifically stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies against transglutaminase which is a protein in all cells within the body.
Thus, grains may contribute to the pathogenesis of many of the so-called disease of civilizations which include:
1. neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and the severity of Huntington's 2. Cardiovascular disease which includes heart disease, atherosclerosis, peripheral vascular disease, stroke 3. Pulmonary disease asthma, COPD, etc. 4. Metabolic disease which includes diabetes 1 and 2, metabolic syndrome, osteoporosis 5. Gastrointestinal disease such as Celiac's, Crohn's, IBS, Colitis, etc. 6. Organ issues such as kidney, liver, etc. 7. Autoimmune such as rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, ALS, SLE, dermatitis, etc. 8. And others such as cancer, depression, obesity, acne, etc.
Doc who "cured" her 2nd degree multiple sclerosis: + Show Spoiler +
There are several other factors involved in the pathogenesis of many of these diseases that can be obtained from diet besides (1) gluten/grains such as (2) excessive amounts of carbohydrates especially fructose, (3) excessive intake of omega 6 oils throwing off O6:O3 balance, and (4) trans fats.
These 4 dietary factors comprise most of the problems with the modern diet.
Additionally, there are other factors to consider beyond diet:
1. High stress all the time. Stress increases insulin resistance, and production of cortisol (which decreases inflammation in short term but chronically there's a lot of negatives). 2. Lack of sleep. Increases insulin resistance, and inflammation. 3. Lack of exercise (exercise increases insulin sensitivity among other things). 4. Lack of vitamin D (potent anti-inflammatory, immune system modulator, etc.)
On December 21 2011 10:38 goose114 wrote: I just wanted to offer up a few of things that you might find interesting that I didn't see mentioned in the OP.
The videos linked in the OP, Big Fat Fiasco, were the precursor to the documentary Fat Head, which is available on Netflix and Hulu, and expands upon the research presented in the YouTube videos. There is also a blog at http://www.fathead-movie.com that is updated pretty regularly with interesting material.
I saw someone else mentioned Gary Taubes in the thread. His books are well regarded, but I haven't read them; however, I do read some of the things he publishes online at http://garytaubes.com.
Finally, this lecture by Dr. Robert Lustig goes into very in-depth and well-researched detail about the damage caused by sugar.
Paleo for those with diseases, the athletes, and the healthy
As stated before, Paleo is a QUALITY OF FOODS diet. It is neither low carb or high carb; it can be either depending on what the health issues someone is having and/or the activities that they under take.
The plant to animal ratios of our ancesters and studies on hunter gatherers suggest "the animal-derived calorie percentage ranges from 25% in the Gwi people of southern Africa, to 99% in Alaskan Nunamiut. [...] The mean diet among modern hunter-gatherer societies is estimated to consist of 64–68% of animal calories and 32–36% of plant calories."
In general, low carbohydrate or ketogenis type diets tend to very strongly influence weight loss and improve various diseases. They also have a strong neuroprotective effect because ketone bodies can be used as energy in the brain in the absence of glucose because of systemic insulin resistance.
1. In regards to obesity/overweight to get the quickest/best results, it is recommended to go on a lower carbohydrate diet (typically <125g of carbohydrates from any source) per day and get the rest of calories from protein, animal fats, or coconut/avocadoes/nuts.
2. In regards to athletes, the carbohydrate level can be increased through greater consumption of dietary carbohydrates in fruits, vegetables.
3. In regards to healthy living in otherwise disease free individuals -- low or no carbohydrate diets are not recommended. This is covered in depth with analysis in this post if you want to know the reasons why.
Typical hunter gatherer carbohydrate sources ranged from about 22-40% of total energy intake. On a 2,000 calorie diet, this is 440 - 800 calories from carbs which is 110-200g of carbs a day. It's even noted in populations where if they didn't have any type of starch sources such as potatoes that even if they had meats they would say they were starving.
See this post by Kurt Harris for more details on some of the recommendations above (independently came to it seems as well).
On October 20 2011 06:44 flare8 wrote: I've got a big collection/overview of scientific studies (and some anthropology) about health and disease. Much of it is inspired by 'paleo' writers, or people close such as weston price etc. Please have a look if you're technically minded:
>> Logging your food is one of the better ways analyze the quality and quantity of your nutrition.
If you are having a hard time gaining or losing weight in particular, or poor health and looking to eat healthier then doing this is a very good idea. It doesn't matter when you eat so much as what you eat.
Woah woah woah I have to stop you at EVOLVED. Have you looked at the current state of humanity? We can't even provide the basics of food, water and shelter for our whole population. What kind of an evolution is that? We made a few gadgets and made it to the moon and all of a sudden we evolved?
Stop trolling.
I am not trolling, there is no evidence of this evolution you are talking about.
I have this sinking feeling that this isn't going to end well...
Aside from taking the thread into a mostly irrelevant tangent, the logic smack down leveled by Eshlow in the last few pages should have been a pretty big warning sign against stupid arguments.
I looked through the last few pages for the "smackdown" but couldn't find anything. What are you talking about exactly? How do you explain that people are getting healed from all sorts of diseases on a Low fat, High-Carb Vegan diet, the exact opposite of the Paleo diet? http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html
On September 06 2011 00:48 eshlow wrote: Why Paleo?
The nutritional guidelines that many people from the previous TL Health and Fitness thread recommend is the Paleolithic diet.
Despite what you may have heard about the Paleo diet, it is neither low carbohydrate or high carbohydrate. It can be either depending on how many carbohydrates you eat from fruits and vegetables.
Instead, the Paleo diet focuses specifically on inclusion of high quality and nutrient rich foods upon which we evolved: fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs.
Dairy, grains, and legumes are excluded specifically because of potential detrimental aspects that these foods may on our gastroinstestinal system and subsequently the rest of our organ systems by proxy.
As an aside my personal opinion is that dairy is fine as long as you are not lactose intolerant.
Grains and legumes are touted by the government as healthy even though there is little evidence supporting these statements especially regarding fiber and nutrients as fruits and vegetables provide more of each and are healthier. Many people have heard of Celiac's disease which is characterized by chronic inflammation of the intestinal tract due to gluten, a protein in wheat and many other grains.
It was thought that in the absence of Celiac's there seemed to be little evidence to the detrimental effect of grains. However, that is changing as recent research into suggests that gluten sensitivity may exist in upwards of 2/3rds of the population. Another. In particular, gliadin protein seems to specifically stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies against transglutaminase which is a protein in all cells within the body.
Thus, grains may contribute to the pathogenesis of many of the so-called disease of civilizations which include:
1. neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and the severity of Huntington's 2. Cardiovascular disease which includes heart disease, atherosclerosis, peripheral vascular disease, stroke 3. Pulmonary disease asthma, COPD, etc. 4. Metabolic disease which includes diabetes 1 and 2, metabolic syndrome, osteoporosis 5. Gastrointestinal disease such as Celiac's, Crohn's, IBS, Colitis, etc. 6. Organ issues such as kidney, liver, etc. 7. Autoimmune such as rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, ALS, SLE, dermatitis, etc. 8. And others such as cancer, depression, obesity, acne, etc.
Doc who "cured" her 2nd degree multiple sclerosis: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc
There are several other factors involved in the pathogenesis of many of these diseases that can be obtained from diet besides (1) gluten/grains such as (2) excessive amounts of carbohydrates especially fructose, (3) excessive intake of omega 6 oils throwing off O6:O3 balance, and (4) trans fats.
These 4 dietary factors comprise most of the problems with the modern diet.
Additionally, there are other factors to consider beyond diet:
1. High stress all the time. Stress increases insulin resistance, and production of cortisol (which decreases inflammation in short term but chronically there's a lot of negatives). 2. Lack of sleep. Increases insulin resistance, and inflammation. 3. Lack of exercise (exercise increases insulin sensitivity among other things). 4. Lack of vitamin D (potent anti-inflammatory, immune system modulator, etc.)
On December 21 2011 10:38 goose114 wrote: I just wanted to offer up a few of things that you might find interesting that I didn't see mentioned in the OP.
The videos linked in the OP, Big Fat Fiasco, were the precursor to the documentary Fat Head, which is available on Netflix and Hulu, and expands upon the research presented in the YouTube videos. There is also a blog at http://www.fathead-movie.com that is updated pretty regularly with interesting material.
I saw someone else mentioned Gary Taubes in the thread. His books are well regarded, but I haven't read them; however, I do read some of the things he publishes online at http://garytaubes.com.
Finally, this lecture by Dr. Robert Lustig goes into very in-depth and well-researched detail about the damage caused by sugar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
Paleo for those with diseases, the athletes, and the healthy
As stated before, Paleo is a QUALITY OF FOODS diet. It is neither low carb or high carb; it can be either depending on what the health issues someone is having and/or the activities that they under take.
The plant to animal ratios of our ancesters and studies on hunter gatherers suggest "the animal-derived calorie percentage ranges from 25% in the Gwi people of southern Africa, to 99% in Alaskan Nunamiut. [...] The mean diet among modern hunter-gatherer societies is estimated to consist of 64–68% of animal calories and 32–36% of plant calories."
In general, low carbohydrate or ketogenis type diets tend to very strongly influence weight loss and improve various diseases. They also have a strong neuroprotective effect because ketone bodies can be used as energy in the brain in the absence of glucose because of systemic insulin resistance.
1. In regards to obesity/overweight to get the quickest/best results, it is recommended to go on a lower carbohydrate diet (typically <125g of carbohydrates from any source) per day and get the rest of calories from protein, animal fats, or coconut/avocadoes/nuts.
2. In regards to athletes, the carbohydrate level can be increased through greater consumption of dietary carbohydrates in fruits, vegetables.
3. In regards to healthy living in otherwise disease free individuals -- low or no carbohydrate diets are not recommended. This is covered in depth with analysis in this post if you want to know the reasons why.
Typical hunter gatherer carbohydrate sources ranged from about 22-40% of total energy intake. On a 2,000 calorie diet, this is 440 - 800 calories from carbs which is 110-200g of carbs a day. It's even noted in populations where if they didn't have any type of starch sources such as potatoes that even if they had meats they would say they were starving.
See this post by Kurt Harris for more details on some of the recommendations above (independently came to it seems as well).
On October 20 2011 06:44 flare8 wrote: I've got a big collection/overview of scientific studies (and some anthropology) about health and disease. Much of it is inspired by 'paleo' writers, or people close such as weston price etc. Please have a look if you're technically minded:
>> Logging your food is one of the better ways analyze the quality and quantity of your nutrition.
If you are having a hard time gaining or losing weight in particular, or poor health and looking to eat healthier then doing this is a very good idea. It doesn't matter when you eat so much as what you eat.
Woah woah woah I have to stop you at EVOLVED. Have you looked at the current state of humanity? We can't even provide the basics of food, water and shelter for our whole population. What kind of an evolution is that? We made a few gadgets and made it to the moon and all of a sudden we evolved?
Stop trolling.
I am not trolling, there is no evidence of this evolution you are talking about.
I have this sinking feeling that this isn't going to end well...
Aside from taking the thread into a mostly irrelevant tangent, the logic smack down leveled by Eshlow in the last few pages should have been a pretty big warning sign against stupid arguments.
I looked through the last few pages for the "smackdown" but couldn't find anything. What are you talking about exactly? How do you explain that people are getting healed from all sort of diseases on a Low fat, High-Carb Vegan diet, the exact opposite of the Paleo diet? http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html
Anecdotal evidence is completely meaningless.
Also, why do you call this McDougall diet the exact opposite of the Paleo diet? Is it because you think Paleo is strictly a Low-Carb/High-Fat diet? I think this would be a misconception on your part, because the greater focus of Paleo is on the quality of foods, and carbs that come from foods such as vegetables is totally fine.
The average American diet is very shitty, so it's not hard to see why both of these diets would be a vast improvement over it.
BTW I think your 30 banana thing is kind of ridiculous. It's just too much sugar.
On September 06 2011 00:48 eshlow wrote: Why Paleo?
The nutritional guidelines that many people from the previous TL Health and Fitness thread recommend is the Paleolithic diet.
Despite what you may have heard about the Paleo diet, it is neither low carbohydrate or high carbohydrate. It can be either depending on how many carbohydrates you eat from fruits and vegetables.
Instead, the Paleo diet focuses specifically on inclusion of high quality and nutrient rich foods upon which we evolved: fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs.
Dairy, grains, and legumes are excluded specifically because of potential detrimental aspects that these foods may on our gastroinstestinal system and subsequently the rest of our organ systems by proxy.
As an aside my personal opinion is that dairy is fine as long as you are not lactose intolerant.
Grains and legumes are touted by the government as healthy even though there is little evidence supporting these statements especially regarding fiber and nutrients as fruits and vegetables provide more of each and are healthier. Many people have heard of Celiac's disease which is characterized by chronic inflammation of the intestinal tract due to gluten, a protein in wheat and many other grains.
It was thought that in the absence of Celiac's there seemed to be little evidence to the detrimental effect of grains. However, that is changing as recent research into suggests that gluten sensitivity may exist in upwards of 2/3rds of the population. Another. In particular, gliadin protein seems to specifically stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies against transglutaminase which is a protein in all cells within the body.
Thus, grains may contribute to the pathogenesis of many of the so-called disease of civilizations which include:
1. neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and the severity of Huntington's 2. Cardiovascular disease which includes heart disease, atherosclerosis, peripheral vascular disease, stroke 3. Pulmonary disease asthma, COPD, etc. 4. Metabolic disease which includes diabetes 1 and 2, metabolic syndrome, osteoporosis 5. Gastrointestinal disease such as Celiac's, Crohn's, IBS, Colitis, etc. 6. Organ issues such as kidney, liver, etc. 7. Autoimmune such as rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, ALS, SLE, dermatitis, etc. 8. And others such as cancer, depression, obesity, acne, etc.
Doc who "cured" her 2nd degree multiple sclerosis: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc
There are several other factors involved in the pathogenesis of many of these diseases that can be obtained from diet besides (1) gluten/grains such as (2) excessive amounts of carbohydrates especially fructose, (3) excessive intake of omega 6 oils throwing off O6:O3 balance, and (4) trans fats.
These 4 dietary factors comprise most of the problems with the modern diet.
Additionally, there are other factors to consider beyond diet:
1. High stress all the time. Stress increases insulin resistance, and production of cortisol (which decreases inflammation in short term but chronically there's a lot of negatives). 2. Lack of sleep. Increases insulin resistance, and inflammation. 3. Lack of exercise (exercise increases insulin sensitivity among other things). 4. Lack of vitamin D (potent anti-inflammatory, immune system modulator, etc.)
On December 21 2011 10:38 goose114 wrote: I just wanted to offer up a few of things that you might find interesting that I didn't see mentioned in the OP.
The videos linked in the OP, Big Fat Fiasco, were the precursor to the documentary Fat Head, which is available on Netflix and Hulu, and expands upon the research presented in the YouTube videos. There is also a blog at http://www.fathead-movie.com that is updated pretty regularly with interesting material.
I saw someone else mentioned Gary Taubes in the thread. His books are well regarded, but I haven't read them; however, I do read some of the things he publishes online at http://garytaubes.com.
Finally, this lecture by Dr. Robert Lustig goes into very in-depth and well-researched detail about the damage caused by sugar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
Paleo for those with diseases, the athletes, and the healthy
As stated before, Paleo is a QUALITY OF FOODS diet. It is neither low carb or high carb; it can be either depending on what the health issues someone is having and/or the activities that they under take.
The plant to animal ratios of our ancesters and studies on hunter gatherers suggest "the animal-derived calorie percentage ranges from 25% in the Gwi people of southern Africa, to 99% in Alaskan Nunamiut. [...] The mean diet among modern hunter-gatherer societies is estimated to consist of 64–68% of animal calories and 32–36% of plant calories."
In general, low carbohydrate or ketogenis type diets tend to very strongly influence weight loss and improve various diseases. They also have a strong neuroprotective effect because ketone bodies can be used as energy in the brain in the absence of glucose because of systemic insulin resistance.
1. In regards to obesity/overweight to get the quickest/best results, it is recommended to go on a lower carbohydrate diet (typically <125g of carbohydrates from any source) per day and get the rest of calories from protein, animal fats, or coconut/avocadoes/nuts.
2. In regards to athletes, the carbohydrate level can be increased through greater consumption of dietary carbohydrates in fruits, vegetables.
3. In regards to healthy living in otherwise disease free individuals -- low or no carbohydrate diets are not recommended. This is covered in depth with analysis in this post if you want to know the reasons why.
Typical hunter gatherer carbohydrate sources ranged from about 22-40% of total energy intake. On a 2,000 calorie diet, this is 440 - 800 calories from carbs which is 110-200g of carbs a day. It's even noted in populations where if they didn't have any type of starch sources such as potatoes that even if they had meats they would say they were starving.
See this post by Kurt Harris for more details on some of the recommendations above (independently came to it seems as well).
On October 20 2011 06:44 flare8 wrote: I've got a big collection/overview of scientific studies (and some anthropology) about health and disease. Much of it is inspired by 'paleo' writers, or people close such as weston price etc. Please have a look if you're technically minded:
>> Logging your food is one of the better ways analyze the quality and quantity of your nutrition.
If you are having a hard time gaining or losing weight in particular, or poor health and looking to eat healthier then doing this is a very good idea. It doesn't matter when you eat so much as what you eat.
Woah woah woah I have to stop you at EVOLVED. Have you looked at the current state of humanity? We can't even provide the basics of food, water and shelter for our whole population. What kind of an evolution is that? We made a few gadgets and made it to the moon and all of a sudden we evolved?
Stop trolling.
I am not trolling, there is no evidence of this evolution you are talking about.
I have this sinking feeling that this isn't going to end well...
Aside from taking the thread into a mostly irrelevant tangent, the logic smack down leveled by Eshlow in the last few pages should have been a pretty big warning sign against stupid arguments.
I looked through the last few pages for the "smackdown" but couldn't find anything. What are you talking about exactly? How do you explain that people are getting healed from all sorts of diseases on a Low fat, High-Carb Vegan diet, the exact opposite of the Paleo diet? http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html
For starters, paleo diet is about meat, nuts, veggies and fruits. It is neither high carb or low carb, its up to you and your goals. I am sure if you stop overeating and ditch processed food, even if you eat grains, you will see a an increase in appearance and health, just for the weight lose alone. I skimmed that website and can't find a 101 of the diet you talk about, but I can tell you right now that this guy nor 99% his followers are close to being an intermediate athlete. It is possible to eat healthy being vegan, but its extremely hard and requires a whole lot deal of supplements. There are ethical reasons for which veganism is acceptable, but there is rare (I assume there are diseases) to do it because its "healthy", cause it's not. If you wanna do sports, and put on muscle, you need your meat.
On September 06 2011 00:48 eshlow wrote: Why Paleo?
The nutritional guidelines that many people from the previous TL Health and Fitness thread recommend is the Paleolithic diet.
Despite what you may have heard about the Paleo diet, it is neither low carbohydrate or high carbohydrate. It can be either depending on how many carbohydrates you eat from fruits and vegetables.
Instead, the Paleo diet focuses specifically on inclusion of high quality and nutrient rich foods upon which we evolved: fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs.
Dairy, grains, and legumes are excluded specifically because of potential detrimental aspects that these foods may on our gastroinstestinal system and subsequently the rest of our organ systems by proxy.
As an aside my personal opinion is that dairy is fine as long as you are not lactose intolerant.
Grains and legumes are touted by the government as healthy even though there is little evidence supporting these statements especially regarding fiber and nutrients as fruits and vegetables provide more of each and are healthier. Many people have heard of Celiac's disease which is characterized by chronic inflammation of the intestinal tract due to gluten, a protein in wheat and many other grains.
It was thought that in the absence of Celiac's there seemed to be little evidence to the detrimental effect of grains. However, that is changing as recent research into suggests that gluten sensitivity may exist in upwards of 2/3rds of the population. Another. In particular, gliadin protein seems to specifically stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies against transglutaminase which is a protein in all cells within the body.
Thus, grains may contribute to the pathogenesis of many of the so-called disease of civilizations which include:
1. neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and the severity of Huntington's 2. Cardiovascular disease which includes heart disease, atherosclerosis, peripheral vascular disease, stroke 3. Pulmonary disease asthma, COPD, etc. 4. Metabolic disease which includes diabetes 1 and 2, metabolic syndrome, osteoporosis 5. Gastrointestinal disease such as Celiac's, Crohn's, IBS, Colitis, etc. 6. Organ issues such as kidney, liver, etc. 7. Autoimmune such as rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, ALS, SLE, dermatitis, etc. 8. And others such as cancer, depression, obesity, acne, etc.
Doc who "cured" her 2nd degree multiple sclerosis: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc
There are several other factors involved in the pathogenesis of many of these diseases that can be obtained from diet besides (1) gluten/grains such as (2) excessive amounts of carbohydrates especially fructose, (3) excessive intake of omega 6 oils throwing off O6:O3 balance, and (4) trans fats.
These 4 dietary factors comprise most of the problems with the modern diet.
Additionally, there are other factors to consider beyond diet:
1. High stress all the time. Stress increases insulin resistance, and production of cortisol (which decreases inflammation in short term but chronically there's a lot of negatives). 2. Lack of sleep. Increases insulin resistance, and inflammation. 3. Lack of exercise (exercise increases insulin sensitivity among other things). 4. Lack of vitamin D (potent anti-inflammatory, immune system modulator, etc.)
On December 21 2011 10:38 goose114 wrote: I just wanted to offer up a few of things that you might find interesting that I didn't see mentioned in the OP.
The videos linked in the OP, Big Fat Fiasco, were the precursor to the documentary Fat Head, which is available on Netflix and Hulu, and expands upon the research presented in the YouTube videos. There is also a blog at http://www.fathead-movie.com that is updated pretty regularly with interesting material.
I saw someone else mentioned Gary Taubes in the thread. His books are well regarded, but I haven't read them; however, I do read some of the things he publishes online at http://garytaubes.com.
Finally, this lecture by Dr. Robert Lustig goes into very in-depth and well-researched detail about the damage caused by sugar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
Paleo for those with diseases, the athletes, and the healthy
As stated before, Paleo is a QUALITY OF FOODS diet. It is neither low carb or high carb; it can be either depending on what the health issues someone is having and/or the activities that they under take.
The plant to animal ratios of our ancesters and studies on hunter gatherers suggest "the animal-derived calorie percentage ranges from 25% in the Gwi people of southern Africa, to 99% in Alaskan Nunamiut. [...] The mean diet among modern hunter-gatherer societies is estimated to consist of 64–68% of animal calories and 32–36% of plant calories."
In general, low carbohydrate or ketogenis type diets tend to very strongly influence weight loss and improve various diseases. They also have a strong neuroprotective effect because ketone bodies can be used as energy in the brain in the absence of glucose because of systemic insulin resistance.
1. In regards to obesity/overweight to get the quickest/best results, it is recommended to go on a lower carbohydrate diet (typically <125g of carbohydrates from any source) per day and get the rest of calories from protein, animal fats, or coconut/avocadoes/nuts.
2. In regards to athletes, the carbohydrate level can be increased through greater consumption of dietary carbohydrates in fruits, vegetables.
3. In regards to healthy living in otherwise disease free individuals -- low or no carbohydrate diets are not recommended. This is covered in depth with analysis in this post if you want to know the reasons why.
Typical hunter gatherer carbohydrate sources ranged from about 22-40% of total energy intake. On a 2,000 calorie diet, this is 440 - 800 calories from carbs which is 110-200g of carbs a day. It's even noted in populations where if they didn't have any type of starch sources such as potatoes that even if they had meats they would say they were starving.
See this post by Kurt Harris for more details on some of the recommendations above (independently came to it seems as well).
On October 20 2011 06:44 flare8 wrote: I've got a big collection/overview of scientific studies (and some anthropology) about health and disease. Much of it is inspired by 'paleo' writers, or people close such as weston price etc. Please have a look if you're technically minded:
>> Logging your food is one of the better ways analyze the quality and quantity of your nutrition.
If you are having a hard time gaining or losing weight in particular, or poor health and looking to eat healthier then doing this is a very good idea. It doesn't matter when you eat so much as what you eat.
Woah woah woah I have to stop you at EVOLVED. Have you looked at the current state of humanity? We can't even provide the basics of food, water and shelter for our whole population. What kind of an evolution is that? We made a few gadgets and made it to the moon and all of a sudden we evolved?
Stop trolling.
I am not trolling, there is no evidence of this evolution you are talking about.
I have this sinking feeling that this isn't going to end well...
Aside from taking the thread into a mostly irrelevant tangent, the logic smack down leveled by Eshlow in the last few pages should have been a pretty big warning sign against stupid arguments.
I looked through the last few pages for the "smackdown" but couldn't find anything. What are you talking about exactly? How do you explain that people are getting healed from all sort of diseases on a Low fat, High-Carb Vegan diet, the exact opposite of the Paleo diet? http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html
Anecdotal evidence is completely meaningless.
Also, why do you call this McDougall diet the exact opposite of the Paleo diet? Is it because you think Paleo is strictly a Low-Carb/High-Fat diet? I think this would be a misconception on your part, because the greater focus of Paleo is on the quality of foods, and carbs that come from foods such as vegetables is totally fine.
The average American diet is very shitty, so it's not hard to see why both of these diets would be a vast improvement over it.
BTW I think your 30 banana thing is kind of ridiculous. It's just too much sugar.
LOL too much sugar? Why don't you be objective and tell me exactly HOW much is too much? < debunking paleo
On September 06 2011 00:48 eshlow wrote: Why Paleo?
The nutritional guidelines that many people from the previous TL Health and Fitness thread recommend is the Paleolithic diet.
Despite what you may have heard about the Paleo diet, it is neither low carbohydrate or high carbohydrate. It can be either depending on how many carbohydrates you eat from fruits and vegetables.
Instead, the Paleo diet focuses specifically on inclusion of high quality and nutrient rich foods upon which we evolved: fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs.
Dairy, grains, and legumes are excluded specifically because of potential detrimental aspects that these foods may on our gastroinstestinal system and subsequently the rest of our organ systems by proxy.
As an aside my personal opinion is that dairy is fine as long as you are not lactose intolerant.
Grains and legumes are touted by the government as healthy even though there is little evidence supporting these statements especially regarding fiber and nutrients as fruits and vegetables provide more of each and are healthier. Many people have heard of Celiac's disease which is characterized by chronic inflammation of the intestinal tract due to gluten, a protein in wheat and many other grains.
It was thought that in the absence of Celiac's there seemed to be little evidence to the detrimental effect of grains. However, that is changing as recent research into suggests that gluten sensitivity may exist in upwards of 2/3rds of the population. Another. In particular, gliadin protein seems to specifically stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies against transglutaminase which is a protein in all cells within the body.
Thus, grains may contribute to the pathogenesis of many of the so-called disease of civilizations which include:
1. neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and the severity of Huntington's 2. Cardiovascular disease which includes heart disease, atherosclerosis, peripheral vascular disease, stroke 3. Pulmonary disease asthma, COPD, etc. 4. Metabolic disease which includes diabetes 1 and 2, metabolic syndrome, osteoporosis 5. Gastrointestinal disease such as Celiac's, Crohn's, IBS, Colitis, etc. 6. Organ issues such as kidney, liver, etc. 7. Autoimmune such as rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, ALS, SLE, dermatitis, etc. 8. And others such as cancer, depression, obesity, acne, etc.
Doc who "cured" her 2nd degree multiple sclerosis: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc
There are several other factors involved in the pathogenesis of many of these diseases that can be obtained from diet besides (1) gluten/grains such as (2) excessive amounts of carbohydrates especially fructose, (3) excessive intake of omega 6 oils throwing off O6:O3 balance, and (4) trans fats.
These 4 dietary factors comprise most of the problems with the modern diet.
Additionally, there are other factors to consider beyond diet:
1. High stress all the time. Stress increases insulin resistance, and production of cortisol (which decreases inflammation in short term but chronically there's a lot of negatives). 2. Lack of sleep. Increases insulin resistance, and inflammation. 3. Lack of exercise (exercise increases insulin sensitivity among other things). 4. Lack of vitamin D (potent anti-inflammatory, immune system modulator, etc.)
On December 21 2011 10:38 goose114 wrote: I just wanted to offer up a few of things that you might find interesting that I didn't see mentioned in the OP.
The videos linked in the OP, Big Fat Fiasco, were the precursor to the documentary Fat Head, which is available on Netflix and Hulu, and expands upon the research presented in the YouTube videos. There is also a blog at http://www.fathead-movie.com that is updated pretty regularly with interesting material.
I saw someone else mentioned Gary Taubes in the thread. His books are well regarded, but I haven't read them; however, I do read some of the things he publishes online at http://garytaubes.com.
Finally, this lecture by Dr. Robert Lustig goes into very in-depth and well-researched detail about the damage caused by sugar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
Paleo for those with diseases, the athletes, and the healthy
As stated before, Paleo is a QUALITY OF FOODS diet. It is neither low carb or high carb; it can be either depending on what the health issues someone is having and/or the activities that they under take.
The plant to animal ratios of our ancesters and studies on hunter gatherers suggest "the animal-derived calorie percentage ranges from 25% in the Gwi people of southern Africa, to 99% in Alaskan Nunamiut. [...] The mean diet among modern hunter-gatherer societies is estimated to consist of 64–68% of animal calories and 32–36% of plant calories."
In general, low carbohydrate or ketogenis type diets tend to very strongly influence weight loss and improve various diseases. They also have a strong neuroprotective effect because ketone bodies can be used as energy in the brain in the absence of glucose because of systemic insulin resistance.
1. In regards to obesity/overweight to get the quickest/best results, it is recommended to go on a lower carbohydrate diet (typically <125g of carbohydrates from any source) per day and get the rest of calories from protein, animal fats, or coconut/avocadoes/nuts.
2. In regards to athletes, the carbohydrate level can be increased through greater consumption of dietary carbohydrates in fruits, vegetables.
3. In regards to healthy living in otherwise disease free individuals -- low or no carbohydrate diets are not recommended. This is covered in depth with analysis in this post if you want to know the reasons why.
Typical hunter gatherer carbohydrate sources ranged from about 22-40% of total energy intake. On a 2,000 calorie diet, this is 440 - 800 calories from carbs which is 110-200g of carbs a day. It's even noted in populations where if they didn't have any type of starch sources such as potatoes that even if they had meats they would say they were starving.
See this post by Kurt Harris for more details on some of the recommendations above (independently came to it seems as well).
On October 20 2011 06:44 flare8 wrote: I've got a big collection/overview of scientific studies (and some anthropology) about health and disease. Much of it is inspired by 'paleo' writers, or people close such as weston price etc. Please have a look if you're technically minded:
>> Logging your food is one of the better ways analyze the quality and quantity of your nutrition.
If you are having a hard time gaining or losing weight in particular, or poor health and looking to eat healthier then doing this is a very good idea. It doesn't matter when you eat so much as what you eat.
Woah woah woah I have to stop you at EVOLVED. Have you looked at the current state of humanity? We can't even provide the basics of food, water and shelter for our whole population. What kind of an evolution is that? We made a few gadgets and made it to the moon and all of a sudden we evolved?
Stop trolling.
I am not trolling, there is no evidence of this evolution you are talking about.
I have this sinking feeling that this isn't going to end well...
Aside from taking the thread into a mostly irrelevant tangent, the logic smack down leveled by Eshlow in the last few pages should have been a pretty big warning sign against stupid arguments.
I looked through the last few pages for the "smackdown" but couldn't find anything. What are you talking about exactly? How do you explain that people are getting healed from all sorts of diseases on a Low fat, High-Carb Vegan diet, the exact opposite of the Paleo diet? http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html
For starters, paleo diet is about meat, nuts, veggies and fruits. It is neither high carb or low carb, its up to you and your goals. I am sure if you stop overeating and ditch processed food, even if you eat grains, you will see a an increase in appearance and health, just for the weight lose alone. I skimmed that website and can't find a 101 of the diet you talk about, but I can tell you right now that this guy nor 99% his followers are close to being an intermediate athlete. It is possible to eat healthy being vegan, but its extremely hard and requires a whole lot deal of supplements. There are ethical reasons for which veganism is acceptable, but there is rare (I assume there are diseases) to do it because its "healthy", cause it's not. If you wanna do sports, and put on muscle, you need your meat.
There are plenty of vegan bodybuilders, just look into it. Carl Lewis was vegan, true he isn't an intermediate athlete.
Elizar, if you really care about furthering your knowledge, why don't you read this great analysis of The China Study and express what it is about the empirical data or statistical analysis that you disagree with. The China Study is essentially the basis for all vegan misinformation. It is cited over and over and it is just... flawed. Please read the information:
Although I am guessing it will be hard for me to reason against somebody who says, "How do you explain that people are getting healed from all sort of diseases on a Low fat, High-Carb Vegan diet, the exact opposite of the Paleo diet? http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html"
How can you honestly say that? There has never been any clinical study that proves that diet has magical healing powers. You have some anecdotal evidence... do you know what that means? Bah, I am probably wasting my breath.
On February 09 2012 06:06 skipdog172 wrote: Elizar, if you really care about furthering your knowledge, why don't you read this great analysis of The China Study and express what it is about the empirical data or statistical analysis that you disagree with. The China Study is essentially the basis for all vegan misinformation. It is cited over and over and it is just... flawed. Please read the information:
Although I am guessing it will be hard for me to reason against somebody who says, "How do you explain that people are getting healed from all sort of diseases on a Low fat, High-Carb Vegan diet, the exact opposite of the Paleo diet? http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html"
How can you honestly say that? There has never been any clinical study that proves that diet has magical healing powers. You have some anecdotal evidence... do you know what that means? Bah, I am probably wasting my breath.
No diet has magical healing powers, no food has magical healing powers, I am in no way debating that. Health is a very broad subject, when it comes to health diet isn't everything, EVERYTHING is everything. You eat a healthy diet but you sleep 3 hours everyday, you are under high stress, you don't get any sunlight, you don't go out to breathe any fresh air, of course you are going to be unhealthy. It's just that diet is usually the weakest link for most people. But hey if diet isn't the weakest link for you then you can go ahead and focus on the weakest link for you weather it is exercise or sleep or any of the other things that will move your health levels on up. Has Denise Minger Read 'The China Study'? -- A Collective Rebuttal http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/has-denise-minger-read-the
This debate is a waste of time and space. This thread is to help out people who are interested in the Paleo Diet. ElizarTringov, if you want to talk about vegan diets, you should go to the existing Vegan Threads or perhaps create your own thread.
On February 09 2012 06:48 Slithe wrote: This debate is a waste of time and space. This thread is to help out people who are interested in the Paleo Diet. ElizarTringov, if you want to talk about vegan diets, you should go to the existing Vegan Threads or perhaps create your own thread.
I find the Paleo diet is a danger to peoples health. I guess I should stand by on the sidelines and let them suffer health problems?
On February 09 2012 06:48 Slithe wrote: This debate is a waste of time and space. This thread is to help out people who are interested in the Paleo Diet. ElizarTringov, if you want to talk about vegan diets, you should go to the existing Vegan Threads or perhaps create your own thread.
I find the Paleo diet is a danger to peoples health. I guess I should stand by on the sidelines and let them suffer health problems?
If you are a credible and reasonable person, then people might listen to you. But you come into this thread and fling shit at everybody, and expect people to hear you out?
On February 09 2012 06:48 Slithe wrote: This debate is a waste of time and space. This thread is to help out people who are interested in the Paleo Diet. ElizarTringov, if you want to talk about vegan diets, you should go to the existing Vegan Threads or perhaps create your own thread.
I find the Paleo diet is a danger to peoples health. I guess I should stand by on the sidelines and let them suffer health problems?
If you are a credible and reasonable person, then people might listen to you. But you come into this thread and fling shit at everybody, and expect people to hear you out?
On February 09 2012 06:48 Slithe wrote: This debate is a waste of time and space. This thread is to help out people who are interested in the Paleo Diet. ElizarTringov, if you want to talk about vegan diets, you should go to the existing Vegan Threads or perhaps create your own thread.
I find the Paleo diet is a danger to peoples health. I guess I should stand by on the sidelines and let them suffer health problems?
If you are a credible and reasonable person, then people might listen to you. But you come into this thread and fling shit at everybody, and expect people to hear you out?
I didn't fling shit.
So that video that you posted above wasn't bashing the paleo diet?
On February 09 2012 06:48 Slithe wrote: This debate is a waste of time and space. This thread is to help out people who are interested in the Paleo Diet. ElizarTringov, if you want to talk about vegan diets, you should go to the existing Vegan Threads or perhaps create your own thread.
I find the Paleo diet is a danger to peoples health. I guess I should stand by on the sidelines and let them suffer health problems?
If you are a credible and reasonable person, then people might listen to you. But you come into this thread and fling shit at everybody, and expect people to hear you out?
I didn't fling shit.
So that video that you posted above wasn't bashing the paleo diet?
That video is 1 of 71. I wasn't exactly going to post 71 links. I understand it will take some time to watch, but I think it is worth watching. Maybe the first video did bash it but it was with good reason.
I am so happy that I don't have to argue about nutrition anymore. "Eat real food" is where every argument ends for me. People that tell me that either meat (so much fat!) or fruits (fructose bad!) will kill me are both in their own way delusional. All this low fat vs low carb bullshit makes my brain hurt
Besides that, I just watched the first of this 71 youtube videos. and it made me visit primalblueprint.com. It really has to be said, for advocating a cave-man-diet, this site really sells a lot of supplement, what the fuck. But this Mark Sisson always seemed to look more like a guru to me, Paleo is just plain business for him.
Paleo still seems like a good way to eat to me, and in no way unhealthy. Though it is not for me.
On February 09 2012 06:48 Slithe wrote: This debate is a waste of time and space. This thread is to help out people who are interested in the Paleo Diet. ElizarTringov, if you want to talk about vegan diets, you should go to the existing Vegan Threads or perhaps create your own thread.
+1 we stay out of the vegan threads as well since we made the same argument you're making here ("I find the Paleo (replace with Vegan) diet is a danger to peoples health. I guess I should stand by on the sidelines and let them suffer health problems?") and got shit for it. so please respect people who want to live this way. thanks
On February 09 2012 06:48 Slithe wrote: This debate is a waste of time and space. This thread is to help out people who are interested in the Paleo Diet. ElizarTringov, if you want to talk about vegan diets, you should go to the existing Vegan Threads or perhaps create your own thread.
+1 we stay out of the vegan threads as well since we made the same argument you're making here ("I find the Paleo (replace with Vegan) diet is a danger to peoples health. I guess I should stand by on the sidelines and let them suffer health problems?") and got shit for it. so please respect people who want to live this way. thanks
That's fine just trying to help people. Just throwing some info out there.
I appreciate that but I think it's pretty hard to change people's beliefs. cant blame you for trying (we did the same in the vegan/vegetarian threads ) it's just that it usually doesnt end very well hehe
edit: maybe we should have a seperate discussion thread where you guys can through studies at each others heads all day long
EPT
) it's just that it usually doesnt end very well hehe
