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Everyone agrees that free weights are generally much better than machines. However I respectfully disagree with you MtlGuitarist97.
Work =/= effort. I didn't say that you aren't applying energy to move the weight, I said that you aren't doing work.
You are doing work.
How often in real life can you just push something using purely your pectoral muscles? You never do. Your legs will create the drive, your shoulders will help support the weight and your chest will also help push the weight.
Don't understand how this relates to your argument against machines like the chest press, which involves the use of multiple muscles such as chest, triceps, shoulders.
You can build strength by doing it, but I'm saying that it won't be as noticeable as you would when you do a machine that follows a different pattern of motion.
What pattern of motion would you suggest? And don't you think they'd have machines with a different pattern of motion if it was better?
you can use machines to get some gains, but your gains drop off REALLY quickly due to the fact that it's hard to significantly stress multiple muscles and the fact that you have to use so many machines to train the same amount of muscles that doing a single exercise like the squat or deadlift.
You do train multiple muscles using machines. The muscles that are not trained are many of the small stabilizer muscles (one of the main reasons for using free weights), but the main muscles are trained.
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On March 14 2013 09:24 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
Work =/= effort. I didn't say that you aren't applying energy to move the weight, I said that you aren't doing work.
but you ARE doing work. work is equal to force x distance. it doesnt matter what direction the force is being applied. that's why i said it doesn't matter whether it's horizontal or vertical, you are doing work either way.
Whether or not each machine is easier than the other is completely irrelevant, the final conclusion should just be that machines are terrible for building strength or muscle. The original post basically said that the machine is better than nothing, which is true, but suggests doing the bench press instead of doing machines.
yes, i agree with you here. the machine vs freeweight discussion was just going off of a different point, and of course we both agree that machines are generally worse than freeweights.
Even though you can build strength by doing the chest machines and stuff, you won't build functioning strength which is what I was referring to. How often in real life can you just push something using purely your pectoral muscles? You never do. Your legs will create the drive, your shoulders will help support the weight and your chest will also help push the weight. You won't just be shoving an object that weighs considerably more than you do across, even if you play a sport with lots of pushing like football. Even if you think that you can build strength from machines, I merely said that you will build MORE functioning strength by using a machine that has a motion that is A.) Used in a natural environment or B.) Using multiple muslces. The chest press does neither of those. You can build strength by doing it, but I'm saying that it won't be as noticeable as you would when you do a machine that follows a different pattern of motion.
no disagreement here. of course freeweights are better than machines, and for the exact reasons that you stated.
i guess we went off on a lot of other tangents. the main point is, you do work when you create force in any direction.
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Regarding bench pressing without a spotter, I agree it's something you shouldn't be afraid of, it's pretty easy to tell if you can manage another rep or not. However, once you get to decently heavy weight(I dunno maybe 3 plates or so) you'll still want a spotter or safety bars in my opinion, because if you tear a pec or a tricep that bar will come crashing down on you.
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If you tear a pec or a tricep spotter wont be able to save you anyways :p
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No, but he will be able to get the bar off of you which you likely won't be able to do yourself. Don't think you'll have much air in your lungs left after anything like that.
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True, with spotter is always better.
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I have some weight goals (2 plate bench, 3 plate squat) but also some bodyweight goals (full planche, front/back lever). Should I focus on one, then the other? Or can I mix up my routine and try to do both. My idea was this:
Workout A:
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench
1x5 Deadlift
Workout B:
3x5 Squat
Planche work
Front lever
Handstand work
Back lever
Would I just hurt my progression in both by trying to mix it up, or is this a good idea? Alternating workouts m/w/f
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I would do a 5x5 full body 3 times a week, and planks etc on random restdays.
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2 plate bench and 3 plate squat are 60kg and 80kg? If so, you'll likely achieve those way before full planche and prolly before FL also. So I'd recommend to focus on those first and get them out of the way if they are important to you. The raw strength from bench should help a bit with planche later. Then you could make a routine with DL and squat(if you still have further goals) as lowerbody work and bw as upperbody.
And "planks etc on random restdays" really have nothing to do with his goals...
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On March 18 2013 05:57 4thHatchery wrote:
2 plate bench and 3 plate squat are 60kg and 80kg? If so, you'll likely achieve those way before full planche and prolly before FL also. So I'd recommend to focus on those first and get them out of the way if they are important to you. The raw strength from bench should help a bit with planche later. Then you could make a routine with DL and squat(if you still have further goals) as lowerbody work and bw as upperbody.
And "planks etc on random restdays" really have nothing to do with his goals...
Normally 2 plate would mean 2 plates on each side. Which makes 2 plate and 3 plate 100kg and 140kg.
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I currently weigh 145 lbs @ 5'11 (~65kg 180cm)
I realize I'll probably get the squat/bench goals first, but at that point I'll just go full focus on the bodyweight training. I figured I could get a head start by integrating it in now though.
Thanks for the link, I had forgotten about that article. It pretty much agrees with my routine, though maybe I should only do front lever one day and back lever another. I just got the overcoming gravity book, so I'll probably answer my own question there as I continue through it.
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Hum. If you're already alternating barbell and bw, then I think having two versions(BL/FL) of the bw routine is a step in the wrong direction. You'd be training BL and FL each just once in 4 training days which I think is stretching too thin. Still with the help of OG and the article I'm sure you'll come up with something that will work. 
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Hey guys, here are 2 questions:
i ve read through various threads of this forum about half a year back and was quite interested in a couple of articles involving training with less different exercises and withouth those fancy gym machines. the focus was on exercises that train a number of muscle regions opposed to, eg, being limited to just the biceps. however, i cannot find it anymore :O if anyone knows what i m talking about and can shove me in the right direction, i d be very grateful (:
2nd one: i ve been to the gym for about 2 years with no quite the regularity i d like and had to have a brake of about 6 months recently. i want to get back into training but do it properly this time and decided to build strength first. now, with a programm similar to the one above, i would prefer training every third day with 2 days off, that fits my schedule at the moment. how much do i split my excercises? do i do 2 different sets, 3 or just limit myself to one? previously i v done 2 and 3 different days of training, but i also did at least 6 exercises per day. any advise would be great!
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the "general training recommendations" sticky is probably what you are looking for.
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anybody else have dreams where you're exerting yourself physically? like running, jumping, fighting, etc. i've been having these dreams on and off for the past few weeks, moreso than before, and it sucks cuz i wake up sweating. theyre the kind of dreams where you are running around as fast as you can, but you're still moving so slowly.
other than that, there's nothing wrong with my sleep. go to bed around 11 or 12, wake up at 9 or so. i've been trying to think of why this might be happening and how to stop them....
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On March 19 2013 00:17 ieatkids5 wrote:
anybody else have dreams where you're exerting yourself physically? like running, jumping, fighting, etc. i've been having these dreams on and off for the past few weeks, moreso than before, and it sucks cuz i wake up sweating. theyre the kind of dreams where you are running around as fast as you can, but you're still moving so slowly.
other than that, there's nothing wrong with my sleep. go to bed around 11 or 12, wake up at 9 or so. i've been trying to think of why this might be happening and how to stop them....
Hows your mindset when you are falling asleep?
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I have the running and you can't run fast enough/exhausted in the dream fairly often (once every week or two if I remember). Just last night actually. Woke up with my heart racing but that's about it. As to how to address them happening you're probably delving into highly subjective territory
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@skindzer
usually, i go to bed because i am really tired (i dont go to bed at a certain time, only when i feel tired), but my mind is still pretty active. actually, my mind is almost always really active - just thinking about stuff. it's something i've been trying to alleviate with some meditation/relaxation/deep breathing techniques while i lay in bed to fall asleep.
@mordek
theyre a bitch arent they? and yeah, it'll be pretty subjective, but i think i'm fine with that. i dont need a research study showing that "if i do this before going to bed, then i will be X% less likely to experience running in my dreams." just some ideas that i might be able to try and see if they work for me, cuz in the end, that's the most important - whether they work for you or not.
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EPT
. But I still don't think alternating is the best approach.
