Since a lot of the mass from weight lifting comes from increased bone density, and due to the positive effects that weight lifting has on posture (especially deadlifts), the opposite could be argued: that lifting heavy weights promotes healthy growth! I'm going to teach my children how to lift weights from their early childhood (once they get their functional motor skills down around 7-8), but I'm not going to be that kind of dad that pressures them or anything like that .
Today's lifts went really well. I'm really starting to get that clean down, and since a lot of the skills learned in the clean transfer directly into the snatch, even that's improving. I'm doing a bunch of practice in the clean with only 50kg, but I'm working on the following four big points atm:
1.) Timing of the second pull. 2.) Keeping the bar close to the legs for the second pull. 3.) Quickness under the bar to get it into the right position. 4.) Loose arms.
I'm doing pretty damn good so far I think. My strength needs some work still of course, but I'm feeling very confident with my clean form lately. Sunday is my PR day so I'll try to hit 90kg on the clean that day.
Edit: lol at this trash list of "most challenging sports"
yeah it also requires almost no confidence to throw 2x your bw above your head I guess also, table tennis requires no speed? strange list.
I'm going to teach my children how to lift weights from their early childhood (once they get their functional motor skills down around 7-8), but I'm not going to be that kind of dad that pressures them or anything like that
I would probably do the same hehe. sometimes I go to a private gym that a couple of friends have set up in the basement. one of them always brings his kid (6-7 years old I think) to watch and learn!
M.Press - 105lbs - 4-1-0 : either I'm stuck at a wall, or fatigue killed me, I'd like to think it's the latter but who knows. (PR)Dips - 5-5-1 (PR)Pull ups - 9-6-3 (max was 8-6-4 or smth before)
I've been stuck at 105lbs on M.Press for 3-4 sessions now. What should be my plan? a) keep pressing b) add more auxiliary work (what would they be? I'm thinking pullups and dips, and push presses) c) reset
Also worked on squat form and bench form. Squat form seems pretty good, other than the fact that my lower back breaks down at the TOP of the motion, which is pretty odd (i basically stand up too much I think) Bench form is totally different now after watching that "so you think you can bench" video series. I only did like 10 reps with just a bar, and my back is sore from the arching LOL.
@thedeadhaji. I've been going to the gym constantly for about 4 years now, so i know what you're talking about with that "fail". You shouldn't train if you're tired, especially not push yourself with big weights. Reason no1 is you won't be able to get the most out of that session and it also snowballs into your next sessions. If you're tired, go sleep. train only when you're rested. Even if it messes up your schedule a little bit, it's much better to skip a training session and get the most out of the next one than not to train properly on 2 sessions. Also, you might want to consider training each muscle group on separate days (benching and squatting don't go together at all because you are training 2 major muscle groups in one day). I train 4 times a week like this:
Monday - Chest Tuesday - Back Wednesday off Thursday - shoulders/delts Friday - Arms weekend off I also run about 3 miles after each session so i don't train legs separately.
You don't have to follow this schedule but there are some rules that apply to everyone: Never train 2 major muscle groups in one day because the effort is too big and you won't be able to get the most out of that session. Major muscle groups are Chest, Back and Legs. You can combine chest and back with your arms, for example you can do chest and triceps on Monday and back with biceps on Tuesday. As for you being stuck on 105 lbs, it's ok. Adding weight shouldn't be a goal for anyone except powerlifters, it should only come as a necessity. Add weight only when you feel like your strength has really grown and the current weight just doesn't cut it anymore. Form of execution should be the primary concern, there's no point in benching 300 lbs if your pushing 80% of it with your shoulders and triceps.
If you've been stuck for 3 workouts, reset. If you find yourself stuck at the same place again once you've worked your way back up, THEN it's time to think about more pressing, or doing an intermediate style program as far as the press is concerned.
@Rameye - You've got a very different training philosophy from most of the people lifting in here, much like the way that my room mate sees it. He's in good shape, and he's been lifting for probably four years now. I have two inches on him, and he has twenty pounds of lean body mass on me. I out squat him, out deadlift him, and with my recent change to bench form I'll be ahead of him there by the end of the summer. I'm making quicker progress in weight and in strength than he ever did, but he made quicker gains in size, and has built the body that he wants for himself. It's fine, it's just a different approach.
Haji is only pushing the boundaries of novice training, where it's still perfectly acceptable to train a full body in one workout. Also consider, he is only training three times a week.
Also, running won't give you legs. This is one point where there's no discussion for us to have.
As far as the ESPN article; spoilered for wall of useless opinion. + Show Spoiler +
Clearly weightlifting takes more PWR than anything else listed on the site - it's what the sport is based around, and being competitive demands being able to put out enough strength to throw more than twice your bodyweight over your head in just a few seconds. No other sport is comparative in that regard. Lifting was given an almost perfect score in STR and PWR, duh. As far as SPD goes - you can't have power without speed really, so I would take issue with that rating. Anyone who rates lifting low in NRV (nerve) has probably never failed a weight before, and stepped up to it again. There's really something heartbreaking about failing a squat; the feeling where, no matter how hard you push, you don't have the strength in your legs to stand back up. It's internal - so no defeat in another sport compares. Durability... During a competition, only six lifts are typically performed, yes? So I'm alright with that score. Of course it takes a superhuman body to go through all the training without injury, but the same can be said of any sport on the olympic level. On the analytical score, again I'm ok with this. There really isn't any real time decision making in lifting, as compared to a sport like basketball, hockey, or even our beloved Starcraft. Saying that it takes no coordination is simply ridiculous however. It's been said many times over that no exercise involves more muscles than the squat, and making them all work together properly takes more effort than I ever spent on basketball or lacrosse, both of which scored higher. That's not even considering exercises like the c&j or snatch. Whoever rated lowly on coordination has clearly never lifted heavily and properly.
I suppose there are some ratings I agree with, both high and low, and others that I don't. I wouldn't give the edge to lifting over several of the sports on the list, but it definitely deserves to be higher than the bottom third.
On May 06 2011 19:16 thedeadhaji wrote: >Zafrumi Resetting individual lifts is how it's supposed to be done? ( I was initially under the impression that I would reset all 5 lifts at once)
hm I thought thats how its supposed to be, but reading the starting strength wiki I'm not so sure anymore. quote:
Don't reset if you've only stalled in the press, bench, or powerclean. As long as your deadlift, and especially your squat, are moving up you are making progress. Stick with it.
it could just be phrased badly, i.e. he means "don't change programs" instead of "don't reset", but maybe he just means keep pressing/benching/power cleaning with the same weight. it's unlikely though, when you put the statement in the context of some other similiar statements (like "I stalled on an exercise, what should I do? How do I "reset"?" meaning you can stall and reset on every exercise. or "How do I know if I've "officially stalled" and need to reset?", implying that you need to reset every exercise once you have stalled.)
I'm probably reading way too much into this lol :D
On May 06 2011 19:16 thedeadhaji wrote: >Zafrumi Resetting individual lifts is how it's supposed to be done? ( I was initially under the impression that I would reset all 5 lifts at once)
hm I thought thats how its supposed to be, but reading the starting strength wiki I'm not so sure anymore. quote:
Don't reset if you've only stalled in the press, bench, or powerclean. As long as your deadlift, and especially your squat, are moving up you are making progress. Stick with it.
it could just be phrased badly, i.e. he means "don't change programs" instead of "don't reset", but maybe he just means keep pressing/benching/power cleaning with the same weight. it's unlikely though, when you put the statement in the context of some other similiar statements (like "I stalled on an exercise, what should I do? How do I "reset"?" meaning you can stall and reset on every exercise. or "How do I know if I've "officially stalled" and need to reset?", implying that you need to reset every exercise once you have stalled.)
I'm probably reading way too much into this lol :D
just reset your press and see what happens
I've always thought it was "reset your individual lift when it's not increasing" but that you didn't worry about changing programs until your squat had stalled at least twice and your deadlift at least once.
On May 06 2011 19:28 Rumeye wrote: @thedeadhaji. I've been going to the gym constantly for about 4 years now, so i know what you're talking about with that "fail". You shouldn't train if you're tired, especially not push yourself with big weights. Reason no1 is you won't be able to get the most out of that session and it also snowballs into your next sessions. If you're tired, go sleep. train only when you're rested. Even if it messes up your schedule a little bit, it's much better to skip a training session and get the most out of the next one than not to train properly on 2 sessions. Also, you might want to consider training each muscle group on separate days (benching and squatting don't go together at all because you are training 2 major muscle groups in one day). I train 4 times a week like this:
Monday - Chest Tuesday - Back Wednesday off Thursday - shoulders/delts Friday - Arms weekend off I also run about 3 miles after each session so i don't train legs separately.
You don't have to follow this schedule but there are some rules that apply to everyone: Never train 2 major muscle groups in one day because the effort is too big and you won't be able to get the most out of that session. Major muscle groups are Chest, Back and Legs. You can combine chest and back with your arms, for example you can do chest and triceps on Monday and back with biceps on Tuesday. As for you being stuck on 105 lbs, it's ok. Adding weight shouldn't be a goal for anyone except powerlifters, it should only come as a necessity. Add weight only when you feel like your strength has really grown and the current weight just doesn't cut it anymore. Form of execution should be the primary concern, there's no point in benching 300 lbs if your pushing 80% of it with your shoulders and triceps.
I can squat 135kg and deadlift 160kg in the same session, its fine. there are olympic lifters who squat like 6 times a week and train c&j and snatches as well. its all about what your body is accustomed to. a split routine like you suggest will not have the same results as a program designed to increase your general strength like SS or stronglifts: if you want to become strong (which the majority of this thread set as their goal), you absolutely have to do compound exercises (squat, deadlift and bench press). if you want to be a bodybuilder, you have to focus more on each muscle group. and thats fine if you want to do that, but for beginners such as us (and probably you too! no offense ) there is (almost) nothing that will benefit you more than increasing your general strength through compound lifting three times a week.
adding weight absolutely should be your goal. how is your body gonna get stronger if you dont tell it to lift more weight? muscles will not magically grow beyond what you train them for. hm how should I say this. if you sunbathe for 15 minutes every day, you will get tanned. but will you get more and more tanned if you ONLY spend 15 minutes on the sun every day? no, because your body adapts to exactly those 15 minutes and nothing more because there is no need for that. its exactly the same with lifting. your body adapts to what you expose it to - and nothing more.
and just as a side note, because I love to trash biceps exercises: training your biceps has no functionality whatsoever except show off your big gunz on the beach. its like one of the most useless muscles ever!
Zafrumi, yeah, it's all about what you want to achieve... if raw strength is your goal, sure, go ahead and push yourself as hard as you can weight-wise. And yes, i was talking about bodybuilding not powerlifting. I'm not sure I agree with "adding weight absolutely should be your goal. how is your body gonna get stronger if you dont tell it to lift more weight? muscles will not magically grow beyond what you train them for." ... muscles break down if you apply pressure the right way. It's all about "the pump" you get in the gym and that comes mainly from executing the exercise the right way rather than the heavy way. I'm not saying you should use peanuts for dumbbells, just that you should never sacrifice form in favor of weight. But again, it all comes down to your goals... I'm talking from a bodybuilding point of view.
I have a quick question guys. I was curious if SS or a similar 5x3x1 program would be beneficial to use as a bulking program for fall/winter? I would be using it instead of the standard Crossfit program, as it is VERY hard to bulk while doing Crossfit, with all the metcon/cardio they prescribe.
I guess my question boils down to if a purely powerlifting program (perhaps with some Oly lifts mixed in) would be beneficial in the short term. Perhaps for a 4 month period of time, in the fall/winter, used as a bulking program. Of course my calorie/protein intake will be increased as well, specifically upping the amount of fat I take in.
Thanks for any insight into the matter. Oh...and I know you guys are gonna try, but I like Crossfit, and have been doing it for 2+ years, don't try to convert me!!!! xD
[B] and just as a side note, because I love to trash biceps exercises: training your biceps has no functionality whatsoever except show off your big gunz on the beach. its like one of the most useless muscles ever!
I'd like to see you train your huge back properly with toothpick biceps
[B] and just as a side note, because I love to trash biceps exercises: training your biceps has no functionality whatsoever except show off your big gunz on the beach. its like one of the most useless muscles ever!
I'd like to see you train your huge back properly with toothpick biceps
I didnt mean that you can do any exercises without biceps, but, from a powerlifting standpoint, you do not need to target them specifically. If you fail your deadlift, its never because your biceps are too weak.
Yes powerlifting/strength training is very good for bulking
On May 06 2011 20:15 Rumeye wrote: Zafrumi, yeah, it's all about what you want to achieve... if raw strength is your goal, sure, go ahead and push yourself as hard as you can weight-wise. And yes, i was talking about bodybuilding not powerlifting. I'm not sure I agree with "adding weight absolutely should be your goal. how is your body gonna get stronger if you dont tell it to lift more weight? muscles will not magically grow beyond what you train them for." ... muscles break down if you apply pressure the right way. It's all about "the pump" you get in the gym and that comes mainly from executing the exercise the right way rather than the heavy way. I'm not saying you should use peanuts for dumbbells, just that you should never sacrifice form in favor of weight. But again, it all comes down to your goals... I'm talking from a bodybuilding point of view.
You say you run 3 miles after workout and therefore you don't train legs. That is not bodybuilding, it's just non-sense. Noone's legs-muscles are growing from doing a mid-long distance run 4 times a week, if at all they will get thinner but nicely defined, since you are training them a lot. Of course if you like the look, go for it.
Beisdes that, devoting a full day to train arms seems like a pretty big waste of time. Obviously split-routines have their place, but from how many different angles are you gonna hit your arms so that you make a full workout out of it.
On May 06 2011 20:19 cody1024d wrote: I have a quick question guys. I was curious if SS or a similar 5x3x1 program would be beneficial to use as a bulking program for fall/winter? I would be using it instead of the standard Crossfit program, as it is VERY hard to bulk while doing Crossfit, with all the metcon/cardio they prescribe.
I guess my question boils down to if a purely powerlifting program (perhaps with some Oly lifts mixed in) would be beneficial in the short term. Perhaps for a 4 month period of time, in the fall/winter, used as a bulking program. Of course my calorie/protein intake will be increased as well, specifically upping the amount of fat I take in.
Thanks for any insight into the matter. Oh...and I know you guys are gonna try, but I like Crossfit, and have been doing it for 2+ years, don't try to convert me!!!! xD
Yes, strength programs are good for bulking. But I personally wouldn't use the 5x3x1 programm (if you talk about the one from Jim Wendler) for that. That is a pretty slow intermediate-programm, which works better over a longer periode of time. You are probably better of with SS or Madow 5x5 (depends obviously on how strong you already are)
On May 06 2011 20:15 Rumeye wrote: Zafrumi, yeah, it's all about what you want to achieve... if raw strength is your goal, sure, go ahead and push yourself as hard as you can weight-wise. And yes, i was talking about bodybuilding not powerlifting. I'm not sure I agree with "adding weight absolutely should be your goal. how is your body gonna get stronger if you dont tell it to lift more weight? muscles will not magically grow beyond what you train them for." ... muscles break down if you apply pressure the right way. It's all about "the pump" you get in the gym and that comes mainly from executing the exercise the right way rather than the heavy way. I'm not saying you should use peanuts for dumbbells, just that you should never sacrifice form in favor of weight. But again, it all comes down to your goals... I'm talking from a bodybuilding point of view.
You say you run 3 miles after workout and therefore you don't train legs. That is not bodybuilding, it's just non-sense. Noone's legs-muscles are growing from doing a mid-long distance run 4 times a week, if at all they will get thinner but nicely defined, since you are training them a lot. Of course if you like the look, go for it.
Beisdes that, devoting a full day to train arms seems like a pretty big waste of time. Obviously split-routines have their place, but from how many different angles are you gonna hit your arms so that you make a full workout out of it.
I know what you're saying but the fact is that I have pretty strong/thick legs naturally and they match my upper body well enough, i really don't need them to be bigger. Like you said, I like the look, they're symmetrical to the rest of my body. And you might be surprised of what just plain running 4 times a week can do for your quads and hamstrings. Of course training with weights will make them grow, but I don't need that right now. I'm lagging a bit on calves, but for the work I put in, i'm more than happy with the way they look. Sure, it's not going to work for someone with thin legs, but.. everyone's different and you just need to adapt.
Weight lifting apparently takes next to no flexibility, no speed, and no analytic ability.
I'm okay with it actually, it's the highest score on power/strength, which seems about right. There is a bigger methodological question about how much weight those two should have, but the component score seems fine to me
I stacked the bar on some other plates so I can pull from the ground, and oh man, it feels so much better than going from a hang. I feel like I can activate PC much better.
On the other hand, gym told me I had to squat in shoes, and it felt a bit shaky. Time to get chucks
:O This guy squats multiple times a day! Im not sure what his workouts are like, but I think he just squats a lot since he is injured.
nice, maybe they listened to rip after all
heard back from the oly lifting club I contaced a few weeks back. gonna call the president tonight and see what they can offer i'm also contemplating getting into rugby.. I just wanna DO MORE manly stuff
Where do u live btw? tbh i lost respect for rip, I dont see how oly coaches dont want their lifters to get stronger. lol
EPT
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