On May 07 2015 05:54 AlterKot wrote: Poor online play, 1v1, execution barrier, community that doesn't like being presented as PG, just to name the few.
And it's actually not the easiest genre to understand the basics, 90% people think fighting games are just about mashing buttons, spamming moves and comboing people to death.
That's true. But you don't have to understand the nuances of the game to play a fighter and have fun. You don't have to understand how hard a combo is to pull off to see it and think that it looks cool. Other than the 1v1 nature of the game, fighters seem like a really good candidate for e-sports.
Hearthstone is relaxing to watch, which is something most other (streamed) games really aren't. I think that might be one of the major reasons that it's so popular. Plus it really helps you go to sleep fast.
On May 07 2015 05:39 RagequitBM wrote: Has anyone here read the hunger games? I normally stay away from teen fiction, the only ones I've read being Harry Potter, and the Inheritance books, but this series is making me feel like a teenage schoolgirl actually caring about a love triangle. Very surprised how much I'm enjoying it, might even be in my top 5 books of all time.
Though it might just be because Peeta is a spitting image of myself, and I find myself asking what I would say in his situation, only to have him say something along the same lines.
Loved the first one, didn't read the other two cuz I'm a lazy fuck.
I'll just sit here and wait for Cheep to tell me why I'm a pleb and that they're terrible books.
Save yourself the time on the 2nd two books. Everything you enjoyed about your badass hero Katniss is removed from the character and replaced with teen angst.
On May 07 2015 05:50 Sonnington wrote: I don't really understand why fighters aren't more popular. They're the easiest games for anyone to watch and understand the basics. There's also more action than games like LoL or SC2. Imagine if Nintendo just embraced the fighter community after Melee? I think they would've had a good shot at being the biggest e-sport today.
Well, its a combination of several things. And the success of Smash illustrates many of them: 1) Multiplayer. AKA party mode. The 1v1 mode is far too punishing for players in their first introduction to the game. Also, its not hype if you have more than just 2 people in the room and only 2 are playing. 2) Rote memorization. This is a GAME not a spelling bee with finger smashing. If someone presses a series of buttons in order and you don't know about that series of buttons, you are screwed. BUT, if you are a viewer you either know about that series of buttons, and are bored once it begins, or think its stupid and unfair if you dont. Set combos, a staple of the genre, are also dumb. 3) Variety. Tiers often dominated these games, still true for Melle, but stage variety helps to change that. Plus different players in Smash have historically played the same character very differently, which helps. 4) Online is impractical. Ping always effects games, but when 1 misstep or delayed button press results in 100-0 its particularly bad.
IMO Smash is the only fighter that has had a chance to go mainstream, and would have if Nintendo had realized it earlier. Its a lot like when people argue if ping really matters if Wildturtle and Quas can get noticed. It does if it discourages people before they even think about greatness, and Smash is really the only fighter that doesn't.
On May 07 2015 06:11 Sonnington wrote: You don't have to understand how hard a combo is to pull off to see it and think that it looks cool.
I dont know about that.
As a spectator, the visceral appeal in something that looks cool in a game is only really there if it's also an expression of how good the player executing it is. Something that looks cool is only really impactful if there's some understanding of how hard or how rare that is, especially in the medium of video games where it's possible to design something that looks cool that involves absolutely no player agency whatsoever.
There has to be some ability to translate player skill out of what's happening on screen, and that's not always 100% clear to an uninitiated fighting game viewer.
In Smash for the most part, when a viewer sees something on screen, there's a basic understanding of what the player is doing to make those things on screen happen. Some advanced techniques mess with this a bit, but generally the mapping between inputs and moves is straightforward enough that a viewer can understand what physical actions the player is taking to make the actions in game occur. In other fighters this isn't necessarily the case due to the wider variation in possible inputs that generate actions and how they don't necessarily intuitively come out of what the player sees on screen.
As someone who's not really initiated with fighters, I can watch a game of Smash and still generally get an idea of what actions a player is taking to result in his character's movement on screen. If I watch Wave and Soniv play SG, I have no fucking clue what their inputs are to generate their on-screen actions. The translation between player action and in-game action is totally lost on me.
On May 07 2015 04:58 red_ wrote: I really don't like SSBM at all, and think it's riding a pretty manufactured wave of hype. That's not to say the game isn't quality because I don't like it, but let's be real here, unless you followed it with purpose it wasn't even on the radar until 2013 with Evo and the Smash doc. Jump to today and it blows up twitter on any random weekend tournament as long as there's like a single god and some other top players present. If SSBM is indicative of anything it's not so much that accidental eSports happen, it's the opposite. There was a super niche competitive playerbase for the game for years and years and years(like BW), but it took outside forces with purpose to push it beyond that.
i've been following smash since m2k first started winning, and playing since the game was released. it was not super niche at all. MLG was huge in the early years(2004-2007) & evo 2007, the game started regaining popularity with the first revival of melee tournament and genesis when armada first came over.
in fact the only time i'd ever consider melee as a super niche competitive game was shortly after the release of brawl when the scene was waning as a whole.
On May 07 2015 05:17 AlterKot wrote: I have a heart attack each time someone calls Melee an "esport".
why? it's had one of the longest lasting competitive scenes in modern gaming and still going strong.
Dam that's possibly the nicest gaming house I've seen. It's got nice amount of space and private rooms for everyone. It's clean too. Kicthen is actually used! Holy shit Fnatic got everything down. Even a chill out area!
That looks a lot better than all the other houses I've seen. That must help a lot with team mentality. On the other hand, from everything I've seen from those 5 guys so far they all seem pretty mature, so I don't think it's that hard.
On May 07 2015 04:58 red_ wrote: I really don't like SSBM at all, and think it's riding a pretty manufactured wave of hype. That's not to say the game isn't quality because I don't like it, but let's be real here, unless you followed it with purpose it wasn't even on the radar until 2013 with Evo and the Smash doc. Jump to today and it blows up twitter on any random weekend tournament as long as there's like a single god and some other top players present. If SSBM is indicative of anything it's not so much that accidental eSports happen, it's the opposite. There was a super niche competitive playerbase for the game for years and years and years(like BW), but it took outside forces with purpose to push it beyond that.
While I acknowledge that Smash's popularity exploded after the doc, the core community in it is so strong because it survived for a decade+ despite Nintendo trying to squelch the competitive scene. As someone who has been off-and-on involved with the competitive side of the game since the early years, I don't think I would agree that it's a manufactured hype - there are a lot of things to love about Smash, and the community is a big piece of that.
I'm still just amazed that an esport managed to survive without online play
this is entirely because of the community hosting events, being super friendly and offering to help players travel and provide housing for big nationals
On May 07 2015 04:58 red_ wrote: I really don't like SSBM at all, and think it's riding a pretty manufactured wave of hype. That's not to say the game isn't quality because I don't like it, but let's be real here, unless you followed it with purpose it wasn't even on the radar until 2013 with Evo and the Smash doc. Jump to today and it blows up twitter on any random weekend tournament as long as there's like a single god and some other top players present. If SSBM is indicative of anything it's not so much that accidental eSports happen, it's the opposite. There was a super niche competitive playerbase for the game for years and years and years(like BW), but it took outside forces with purpose to push it beyond that.
While I acknowledge that Smash's popularity exploded after the doc, the core community in it is so strong because it survived for a decade+ despite Nintendo trying to squelch the competitive scene. As someone who has been off-and-on involved with the competitive side of the game since the early years, I don't think I would agree that it's a manufactured hype - there are a lot of things to love about Smash, and the community is a big piece of that.
I'm still just amazed that an esport managed to survive without online play
this is entirely because of the community hosting events, being super friendly and offering to help players travel and provide housing for big nationals
How did sports ever survive without online play? :D
On May 07 2015 04:58 red_ wrote: I really don't like SSBM at all, and think it's riding a pretty manufactured wave of hype. That's not to say the game isn't quality because I don't like it, but let's be real here, unless you followed it with purpose it wasn't even on the radar until 2013 with Evo and the Smash doc. Jump to today and it blows up twitter on any random weekend tournament as long as there's like a single god and some other top players present. If SSBM is indicative of anything it's not so much that accidental eSports happen, it's the opposite. There was a super niche competitive playerbase for the game for years and years and years(like BW), but it took outside forces with purpose to push it beyond that.
While I acknowledge that Smash's popularity exploded after the doc, the core community in it is so strong because it survived for a decade+ despite Nintendo trying to squelch the competitive scene. As someone who has been off-and-on involved with the competitive side of the game since the early years, I don't think I would agree that it's a manufactured hype - there are a lot of things to love about Smash, and the community is a big piece of that.
I'm still just amazed that an esport managed to survive without online play
this is entirely because of the community hosting events, being super friendly and offering to help players travel and provide housing for big nationals
How did sports ever survive without online play? :D
On May 07 2015 04:58 red_ wrote: I really don't like SSBM at all, and think it's riding a pretty manufactured wave of hype. That's not to say the game isn't quality because I don't like it, but let's be real here, unless you followed it with purpose it wasn't even on the radar until 2013 with Evo and the Smash doc. Jump to today and it blows up twitter on any random weekend tournament as long as there's like a single god and some other top players present. If SSBM is indicative of anything it's not so much that accidental eSports happen, it's the opposite. There was a super niche competitive playerbase for the game for years and years and years(like BW), but it took outside forces with purpose to push it beyond that.
While I acknowledge that Smash's popularity exploded after the doc, the core community in it is so strong because it survived for a decade+ despite Nintendo trying to squelch the competitive scene. As someone who has been off-and-on involved with the competitive side of the game since the early years, I don't think I would agree that it's a manufactured hype - there are a lot of things to love about Smash, and the community is a big piece of that.
I'm still just amazed that an esport managed to survive without online play
this is entirely because of the community hosting events, being super friendly and offering to help players travel and provide housing for big nationals
How did sports ever survive without online play? :D
On May 07 2015 05:54 AlterKot wrote: Poor online play, 1v1, execution barrier, community that doesn't like being presented as PG, just to name the few.
And it's actually not the easiest genre to understand the basics, 90% people think fighting games are just about mashing buttons, spamming moves and comboing people to death.
That's true. But you don't have to understand the nuances of the game to play a fighter and have fun. You don't have to understand how hard a combo is to pull off to see it and think that it looks cool. Other than the 1v1 nature of the game, fighters seem like a really good candidate for e-sports.
If you treat it like a casual player then you don't like watching it, because you think it's just mashing buttons. And watching high level fgs is all about appreciating mindgames, execution and knowledge - without understanding of how hard these combos are, how setups work (and why knowing how to escape is impressive) and why throwing a random srk is impressive (my sig is very fitting right now) I don't think I'd find fighting games interesting to watch for more than 15 minutes. Meanwhile anyone who is level 30 in League can enjoy watching it.
On May 07 2015 05:50 Sonnington wrote: I don't really understand why fighters aren't more popular. They're the easiest games for anyone to watch and understand the basics. There's also more action than games like LoL or SC2. Imagine if Nintendo just embraced the fighter community after Melee? I think they would've had a good shot at being the biggest e-sport today.
I'd wager that it has to do with playing solo vs playing with friends/other people. Team sports are far more popular in 'real' sports as well.
In most other games the commentators can explain what's going on, but fighting games I have absolutely zero idea what's happening other then them both spamming buttons
Do you actually watch fighting games? Guys like Ultradavid, James Chen, Seth Killian and Yipes are amazing at explaining stuff and adding to the experience.
Smash was probably the easiest game to understand watching for me, I haven't watched a single game before Smash doc and by the end of it I was understanding everything that happened on the screen.
Reaching level 30 in LoL requires 100 or more hours of play without exp boosts. If you play a fighter for 100+ hours you'll be able to pick up the nuances of the game. I don't see how it's possible to play a fighter for 100 hours by simple button mashing. I totally agree that understanding how a game makes it more satisfying to watch. To make an analogy, people don't have to have ever boxed or fought in order to enjoy watching the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight. The same way you don't have to understand a fighter to enjoy watching someone play it.
On May 07 2015 07:11 Sonnington wrote: Reaching level 30 in LoL requires 100 or more hours of play without exp boosts. If you play a fighter for 100+ hours you'll be able to pick up the nuances of the game. I don't see how it's possible to play a fighter for 100 hours by simple button mashing. I totally agree that understanding how a game makes it more satisfying to watch. To make an analogy, people don't have to have ever boxed or fought in order to enjoy watching the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight. The same way you don't have to understand a fighter to enjoy watching someone play it.
To be fair no casual enjoyed pacman vs mayweather. Even I thought it was sort of slow, and I like watching ibjjf matches, and that shit is a stall fest.
Dam that's possibly the nicest gaming house I've seen. It's got nice amount of space and private rooms for everyone. It's clean too. Kicthen is actually used! Holy shit Fnatic got everything down. Even a chill out area!
have you seen this? C9 guys has more freedom imo. All players playing like in their own home rather than sitting side by side.
The guy with the biggest winnings (30m) in poker is into Hearthstone. Last night on Twitch he said he might stream some.
I'm incredibly interested whether someone that good in poker would be good in CCG too.
It's not really that big of a stretch tbh. Quite a few pro tour players in MTG have played in the novemember 9 for WSOP. I believe Gabriel nassif even has a braclet in Omaha. Most if the HS pros that I played with in beta also play poker/Holdem at a decent level.
EPT
