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New inhouse logistics TBD. In the meantime, feel free to hang out in the league general discord https://discord.gg/0lCEKA3jUEFxERzd ("add lol" in #welcome) and get some ad-hoc games going! |
On September 28 2013 15:34 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2013 14:46 Seuss wrote:On September 28 2013 11:41 jaybrundage wrote:On September 28 2013 11:32 Ketara wrote:So, is Kissblade really allowed to play jungle Quinn?  I think this question should be situational if your team is ok with it then it should be fine. If your team would prefer you not to then say ok and drop it. As much as I like jungling oddball champions and assessing viable alternatives to current meta picks, I am also extremely hesitant to pick anything even slightly outside the norm in these inhouses. It's not that I think I'll fail, far from it, but that doing so is selfish and unhelpful to those I'm playing with and against. "Is this okay with my team" is only the first question you should be asking. Next you need to ask, "Is this okay with the enemy team", followed closely by, "Is this going to make it easier or harder for people to learn and improve?" Finally you need to ask, "Am I doing this because I honestly think this will be beneficial to everyone involved, including myself, or am I doing this because I'm bored/lazy/tired/drunk/experimenting/tired of the meta?"Jungle Quinn does not pass that series of evaluations. Bolded for emphasis. It's not just "are you guys OK with this goofball pick." It's also "is this even going to create a useful learning experience for EITHER TEAM involved?" When roffles locked in jungle graves, I dodged for a reason. Roffles' Jungle Leona (regardless of which team I'm on) doesn't incite that same thing, because Leona still pretty much brings the same as most other junglers. You still learn that you have to respect the fuck out of dem ganks just as much as if it were J4 or any other standard jungler. You still bring a jungler to your team that provide the types of abilities that a team expects a jungler to bring. An AD carry jungler doesn't bring anything that people typically rely on their jungler for. It doesn't teach either team anything.
I thought my Quinn did fine against Shaco, the vision made me completely safe against any counter jungling attempt (and he tried to do so at my red). I also did my clear without a leash since we invaded and I was actually two pots down with zero assists on the invade. Once I hit six, my ganks were actually pretty dangerous. My only issue was I focused it way too much on trying to relieve top pressure (and also I botched a top gank because I turret dove when Renekton wasn't behind me) because Renekton was asking for a lot of help when I think I could've rotated it to bot side more. Mid game, I was also pretty dangerous since Quinn actually clears camps pretty quick. I had botrk pretty quick and LW was my item after since I didn't need a machete item anyway.
This wasn't a moment of whim pick, tbh I actually did her clear a few times myself to verify how it looks and I thought her kit was pretty good as far as gankers went because her chase is good and she has a slow. Her vision is actually really useful in terms of objective control and bush jukes during ganks.
On top of that, I actually thought our mid late spike was really dangerous. At one point we probably could've just powered down a lane but there was only one call when it was made where aura told me to not split off to prevent shaco from taking our inner (which made me really confused because our 4v4 won off a clean wipe and I stopped the shaco from splitting). I think I fucked up there tbh because I sort of panic responded and I noticed only later that Aura typed to go five mid (we were at our outer mid turret area when the fight was looking to break out)
Like I mentioned, the big issue was for some reason we just stopped playing as a team after awhile. Our baron call was literally only THREE of us on the baron pit while two were mid and even then when the enemy team finally reacted the baron was down to 3K health only. =( At that time, we still had no voice reaction so it ended up with two people fighting a shyvanna in baron, one dps-ing baron, and two off at the banana bush by blue fighting two others. Somehow we still came out of that fight ahead but shaco took our bot inhibit for free because when I asked if we were defending or not, no one said anything =\.
Another thing is, it's really difficult past mid game if aura shot calls because he has no mic so occasionally I wouldn't even see what he typed in chat till it was already too late to react.
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The reason why you were safe against Shaco's counterjungling is because he started Dorans Blade when he shouldn't have, and went from his red to his blue to your red and then tried to counterjungle, rather than starting blue and going straight to red.
Don't pick Quinn jungle, it's stupid.
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Registration
- Ingame name
Tchussi
- Rank and division
Diamond IV
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On September 28 2013 23:34 Ketara wrote:
The reason why you were safe against Shaco's counterjungling is because he started Dorans Blade when he shouldn't have, and went from his red to his blue to your red and then tried to counterjungle, rather than starting blue and going straight to red.
Don't pick Quinn jungle, it's stupid.
How was he going to exactly start blue ... we saw him start red. If he doesn't start red, then we take it for free in which case I auto assume he'll go our red if he's starting blue anyway and we trade. so yeah you're just wrong. I can guarantee you Quinn is MUCH safer against Shaco than most melee champs because of how leash works.
He made it to my red in time when I was starting it which was the ideal shaco timing anyway since I had to go smite blue => wolves => wraith.
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I don't even want to have this conversation.
If you try to pick Quinn jungle in a game I'm in, I am going to dodge. Please don't troll inhouse games.
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On September 29 2013 04:22 Ketara wrote:
I don't even want to have this conversation.
If you try to pick Quinn jungle in a game I'm in, I am going to dodge. Please don't troll inhouse games.
That's not exactly a loss to me and pretty sure I wasn't trolling that game.
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On September 29 2013 04:22 Ketara wrote:
I don't even want to have this conversation.
If you try to pick Quinn jungle in a game I'm in, I am going to dodge. Please don't troll inhouse games.
You sound like someone who would dodge FP mid Fiora.
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Why would I dodge mid Fiora?
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Why would you dodge jungle Quinn?
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I wonder why.
On July 27 2013 04:33 NeoIllusions wrote:
[*] Be respectful and follow said rules to the best of your ability. Blatant infractions will result in a ban to your TeamLiquid account.
[*] Play orthodox champions for specific roles. Don't pick Kennen and go bot lane AD. Don't pick Rumble and go mid. Those are situations most lowbies (both on your team and against) that will not be familiar with and it's detrimental to these IHs.
On September 28 2013 11:53 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2013 11:32 Ketara wrote:So, is Kissblade really allowed to play jungle Quinn? No.
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Fiora doesnt meet the orthodox criteria and Neo has also expressed that he doesn't like her being picked.
So is that's why you would dodge Fiora?
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Why are you being an asshole, seriously.
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I didn't think jungle Quinn was that bad and you're shitting all over Kiss for no reason.
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On September 29 2013 06:19 silencefc wrote:
I didn't think jungle Quinn was that bad and you're shitting all over Kiss for no reason.
I appreciate the defense but tbh I legitimatey don't care what Ketarah thinks of the pick. Let's get back to IH topics IMO.
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I'm not shitting all over Kissblade. I like Kissblade, he's a cool guy. Kissblade knows I like him.
But the purpose of the inhouses is to play standard champions and learn how to play the game better the way it is currently and standardly being played.
It's not a place to try new unconventional things. You're right, the Quinn jungle didn't do that badly in that game, but that doesn't mean it's a good pick, and it DEFINITELY doesn't mean it's a standard champion. It's not comparable to mid lane Fiora. Fiora is an AD Assassin, mid lane is generally where you put those. She's not Zed, but I don't really have a problem with it. It's not even remotely the same as putting an AD Carry in the jungle.
We actually have a place to try new unconventional things. If you want to play Quinn jungle, go there. We do all sorts of crazy shit there and Quinn jungle would be fun. But don't bring it into inhouse games where the entire point is to play standard meta champions and get better at playing with/against standard meta champions.
The only person who's shitting all over somebody else here at this point is you attacking me out of the blue for saying I was going to follow the rules. Stop.
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On September 29 2013 06:19 silencefc wrote:
I didn't think jungle Quinn was that bad and you're shitting all over Kiss for no reason.
I think alot of it people have this preconception that if your doing something thats a bit odd that your "trolling." For instance because Kayle has been jungled in pros or annie has been picked support. Its "ok" to pick them simply because pros have.
I remember when Fiddle and Zyra would be considered trolling when picked as support. I remember when Top WW was considered troll as well. When it was really batshit OP. But because pros have done it its considered completely normal now. If i run support sion people might tell me to stop trolling. But if a pro team picked it and it got popular cause its strong. Only then would it be considered ok.
I would tell people to not be to quick to condemn a pick and be more open minded
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On September 29 2013 06:29 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2013 06:19 silencefc wrote:
I didn't think jungle Quinn was that bad and you're shitting all over Kiss for no reason. I think alot of it people have this preconception that if your doing something thats a bit odd that your "trolling." For instance because Kayle has been jungled in pros or annie has been picked support. Its "ok" to pick them simply because pros have. I remember when Fiddle and Zyra would be considered trolling when picked as support. I remember when Top WW was considered troll as well. When it was really batshit OP. But because pros have done it its considered completely normal now. If i run support sion people might tell me to stop trolling. But if a pro team picked it and it got popular cause its strong. Only then would it be considered ok. I would tell people to not be to quick to condemn a pick and be more open minded
This. Just because it isn't seen in competitive play does NOT mean it is not viable or a good pick. What if Diamondprox never played Evelynn? What if teams in worlds never played annie support? What if someone wanted to jungle aatrox before teams in worlds started doing it? Remember when elise wasn't a jungler, but a top laner? What if someone wanted to jungle elise back then? How about fizz, who was barely played until being picked up recently? Zyra going to the support role when she was regarded as a mid laner? Nasus becoming a jungler when he was regarded as a top laner?
Please have a open mind and don't have so hard headed. I know what Kissblade was going with his pick. He had valid reasons such as decent clear speed and great ganks and she can transition to a 2nd adc into our team, which would greatly benefit us because we we had ezreal/ori/quinn, we have amazing poke and siege, but unfortunately we weren't able to show that due to some internal communication issues.
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On July 27 2013 04:33 NeoIllusions wrote:Ground Rules - Play orthodox champions for specific roles. Don't pick Kennen and go bot lane AD. Don't pick Rumble and go mid. Those are situations most lowbies (both on your team and against) that will not be familiar with and it's detrimental to these IHs.
I know I don't play IHs with you guys but from speccing your matches and also participating in trolls jungle quinn is definitely unorthodox. Neo made the rules here and gets the final say but arguing about "viability" is something you do in the trolls thread, the criterion as stated here is clearly orthodoxy.
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On September 29 2013 07:18 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 04:33 NeoIllusions wrote:Ground Rules - Play orthodox champions for specific roles. Don't pick Kennen and go bot lane AD. Don't pick Rumble and go mid. Those are situations most lowbies (both on your team and against) that will not be familiar with and it's detrimental to these IHs.
I know I don't play IHs with you guys but from speccing your matches and also participating in trolls jungle quinn is definitely unorthodox. Neo made the rules here and gets the final say but arguing about "viability" is something you do in the trolls thread, the criterion as stated here is clearly orthodoxy.
I do know the rules however I think you can agree that we can state our opinions
While the rules are a good standard to set I don't believe that rules should be are set in stone. If ten people from the TL inhouse channel decide to play a game and all 10 are fine with playing with Jungle Quinn. There shouldn't be any problems.
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United States37500 Posts
This whole page is moot. I said don't do unorthodox picks. If you want to Jungle Quinn, do it in your own time. I've said this more than once. It's even on the front page, like phyvo mentioned. Please don't make me repeat myself.
KissBlade, I am disappoint. You know I have been encouraging you lately to expand your champion pool but not like this. If you want to experiment, do it in solo queue or do it in TROLLs. There is no basis to try out new/innovative stuff in these IHs when there are plenty of fundamental stuff most of us can work on as is.
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EPT
