EPTedit: then you can't complain that your noob jungler is the reason you go 0-4 as irelia though so dunno. Kind of counterproductive to this thread then! :D
The Shikyo Memorial for QQ Therapy - Page 6
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
edit: then you can't complain that your noob jungler is the reason you go 0-4 as irelia though so dunno. Kind of counterproductive to this thread then! :D | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Sure you can blame your jungler for not ganking your lane when you're losing lane. But there's a big difference between "losing lane" and "feeding 4 times". If you're getting zoned entirely off CS, then there are lots of things you can do/hope your jungler to do. Pretty much none of them involve putting yourself in situations where you'll die, because that only exacerbates the problem. | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
On May 24 2011 10:11 TheYango wrote: IMO there's basically never a good excuse for dying 1v1 in lane. Denied? Sure. Lose tower? Fine. You both tried to kill each other and it they won? | ||
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:31 EmeraldSparks wrote: You both tried to kill each other and it they won? Then you got outplayed don't fight 1v1 unless you know you can win if you lost then you're doing something wrong - learn from it and don't do it again | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:33 unichan wrote: Then you got outplayed don't fight 1v1 unless you know you can win if you lost then you're doing something wrong - learn from it and don't do it again what if you fight 1v1 when you think you can win or you fight 1v1 when you think you have an advantage or etc | ||
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:37 EmeraldSparks wrote: what if you fight 1v1 when you think you can win or you fight 1v1 when you think you have an advantage or etc Exactly, don't fight unless you know you can win. If you didn't win then you did something wrong. It's more important to just play it safe and cs. If you die then you're super duper behind, if the game is even there's no reason to take a 70/30 risk just for the kill. In some situations a trade is ok. yeah | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:39 unichan wrote: Exactly, don't fight unless you know you can win. If you didn't win then you did something wrong. It's more important to just play it safe and cs. If you die then you're super duper behind, if the game is even there's no reason to take a 70/30 risk just for the kill. In some situations a trade is ok. yeah if i see that my opponent isn't going to take risky but favorable exchanges i'm just going to play more and more aggressively until i permanently set up shop on the wrong side of the creep line | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:31 EmeraldSparks wrote: You both tried to kill each other and it they won? Then you misjudged your ability to kill vs his ability to kill, or he outplayed you. That still doesn't mean you can pin it on your jungler for losing--it's still 100% your fault for playing bad if you die in a situation like that. I'm not saying there's never a good reason to try for 1v1 kills. I'm saying there's never an excuse for dying 1v1. You can try for risky kills, but most of the risks in those situations don't come from truly random factors more than how well/poorly you and your opponent play the situation. The reason is you end up dead is still almost always "I played bad", and you can't really pin it any other way most of the time. Mechanically misplaying a 1v1 engagement is still bad play, even if it involves a sound decision to engage. On May 24 2011 12:37 EmeraldSparks wrote: what if you fight 1v1 when you think you can win or you fight 1v1 when you think you have an advantage or etc When those situations involve a champion like Mordekaiser with no CC, you have to really fuck up to end up dead before realizing that you misplayed and were losing some such engagement. He's got ignite + ulti, but it's pretty rudimentary bad play to not properly judge when you're low enough that ignite + ulti would kill you. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On May 24 2011 10:11 TheYango wrote: IMO there's basically never a good excuse for dying 1v1 in lane. Denied? Sure. Lose tower? Fine. Those are unavoidable in certain matchups if your opponent is playing to a certain level of ability. But to DIE you have to actively have chosen to engage/move close enough for him to kill you at some point where you shouldn't have (or if he dived, you should probably have bluepilled at some point prior). There's almost never a situation I can think of where dying is superior to bluepilling and healing or simply waiting for the lane to push back to you--because any creeps you'll lose/damage your tower will take will be unavoidable if you're dead anyway (maybe if you dying allows you to push enough damage onto the enemy laner for your jungler to clean up and end a big enough spree). Sure you can blame your jungler for not ganking your lane when you're losing lane. But there's a big difference between "losing lane" and "feeding 4 times". If you're getting zoned entirely off CS, then there are lots of things you can do/hope your jungler to do. Pretty much none of them involve putting yourself in situations where you'll die, because that only exacerbates the problem. Agree. I never understand why I see people staying in lane with like 1/5 hp or something. The exp you lose from recalling is nothing compared to the exp you lose if you're dead or getting zoned because you're tower hugging with 100 hp left t.t; "omg go heal before you get jumped!" "IF I LEAVE THE LANE FOR ANY REASON I"LL BE BEHIND AND NEVER CATCH UP AGAIN" "Suck it up and heal and get some goddamn potions so you don't get zoned" "BUT I'LL BE BEHIND ON EXP AND GOLD" Dies one minute later.... "F***NIG JUNGLER ALL UR FAUULLTTTT" etc etc Potions save lives. I buy like 1 or 2 basically all game until my inventory is filled. Pop one in any engagement as soooon as you start to take damage. 50 hp5 for 20 seconds is nothing to scoff at. There've been plenty of cases where drinking a potion let me survive a fight. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On May 24 2011 10:11 TheYango wrote: IMO there's basically never a good excuse for dying 1v1 in lane. Denied? Sure. Lose tower? Fine. Person is 0-0 lvl 5 with 8 minion kills at 10min with a tower down Person is 0-2 lvl 7 with 68 minion kills at 10min with tower at half hp Who's doing better? | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:10 Shikyo wrote: Person is 0-0 lvl 5 with 8 minion kills at 10min with a tower down Person is 0-2 lvl 7 with 68 minion kills at 10min with tower at half hp Who's doing better? Both should be executed and/or forced to uninstall the game. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:17 r.Evo wrote: Both should be executed and/or forced to uninstall the game. I guess you should go back to playing champions that have no bad matchups and stop playing against teams that have a better jungler than you. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:10 Shikyo wrote: Person is 0-0 lvl 5 with 8 minion kills at 10min with a tower down Person is 0-2 lvl 7 with 68 minion kills at 10min with tower at half hp Who's doing better? The second person is doing better, but you're ignoring the fact that his lane opponent is equivalently more fed. In order for person 1 to get denied that hard, his lane opponent will have to be giving up farm, while comparatively, Person 2's lane opponent will have gotten to free-farm, and has a further 700-ish gold lead from killing that person twice. That said, your example is retarded. Dying and not dying is not the difference between 60 CS, 2 levels, and half a tower's HP. Person 2 wasn't insta-dying every time he last-hits most likely. More likely, he's getting harassed a bit every time he gets some CS, and happened to stay in lane at too low of HP twice and got killed. If he bluepilled instead of being greedy both those times he died, he would have spent LESS time out of lane, and not put 600-700 gold in his lane opponent's pocket. To provide you a better example: Person 1 and Person 2 play identically from levels 1-5. They get CS. They get harassed. They try to harass back but it's a losing matchup so that doesn't go very well. At level 5, they're both sort of low on HP. Person 1 bluepills, heals and buys, and comes back to lane. The lane opponent pushes the next 2 waves into his tower. Person 2 goes to CS, gets 2 more CS and dies. The lane opponent pushes the next 2 waves into his tower, and bluepills to buy with 400 extra first-blood gold. Who's doing better? | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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BouBou.865
Netherlands814 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:37 EmeraldSparks wrote: what if you fight 1v1 when you think you can win or you fight 1v1 when you think you have an advantage or etc zzz, if you THINK you can win but your thought are WRONG, then you did something WRONG. CAPS for emphasising the obvious points. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
That and amumu jungle, almost every game if I haven't picked a real man jungle already. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Step 1: say I can't play support, people make me pick support anyway Step 2: Go 3-1-11 with Janna, I was 3-0-10 right before the end. Step 3: Teammates(esp the Vayne) complain about me sucking whole game since I couldn't use Janna ulti properly even though I warded, shielded the correct people, used Q and W decently etc. I love playing support. BTW, Inflecta Kassadin average KDA is 9.1:2.1: 9.1 or 8.8:1 | ||
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petered
United States1817 Posts
Another thing, if you are low ELO people rage hardcore when you don't ban rammus and shen. There was a game that we eventually won, but my teammates yelled at me the whole time. | ||
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