|
On January 29 2024 00:19 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 00:05 Fango wrote:
Reynor, Maru, and Clem have chances against Serral but that's about it.
I don't see protoss being able to without lucky builds and doing that in a bo9 isn't happening. Feels a Bit Like 2018 pvz again, toss is in a competitive Spot zerg is somewhat Stronger in the late lategames and serral is very good at those and very good at getting there.
True. And herO is the new old Stats
|
will there be a replay pack? if so where will it be posted?
|
On January 29 2024 00:31 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2024 22:47 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:33 darklycid wrote:On January 28 2024 22:22 Nasigil wrote:
After the legendary G7 against Reynor yesterday I expected herO to put up a bit of a better fight against Serral than what it was today ... but sadly it was very one sided.
I guess Serral is just that much better than every other Zerg out there in ZvP. He doesn't make mistakes. If you don't play 100% perfect as well you have no chance to win. If He didnt do mistakes herO would have been never able to throw g3 as hard as He did, serral Just knows what He Has to do to win and Well in Games Like that herO let him. usually comebacks are a mixbag of mistakes done by the player in the winning position and amazing/clever plays done by the player in the losing position. That game 3 however was none of it. Serral didnt do anything at all. herO was just so passive he let serral fully recover . Which why that was a throw and not a comeback I don't think that's a fair assessment either. I mean, yes, herO could've attacked at any point before Serral had a bunch of infestors and even ultras out and just crushed. But Serral's fight with infestors and hydras and 2 ultras was extremely good, and he had to put himself in that position. Then the whole go full BL + infestors should NEVER have worked, but for some reason *that* was when herO went full tunnel vision on attacking instead of just pulling back and eating the whole map. It's fair that herO clutched defeat out of the jaws of victory there, but it's not like Serral just sat back and let it happen. After his failed all-in he took every opportunity he was given to claw his way back into the game.
Serral did well at the end but at that point the advantage herO had was already mostly gone so the 'comeback' happened without Serral's doing
|
We'll, congrats to Serral, again. A little amuse-bouche ahead of Katowice. :D
|
GG WP Serral.
HerO was inspired, but also throwing and making lots of blunders against Reynor. Serral is just way too clean and punishing for anyone to get away with that.
|
Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often.
On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote:On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote:
The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already.
Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field.
|
Serral sweeping another tournament (on top of the countless others) absolutely makes his GOAT case better.
It's just not gonna move him in anyone's rankings because all the greatest players have long lists of different achievements that one tournament alone isn't swinging things unless maybe it's a GSL or World Championship.
Put it this way, if you rank Serral lower than other players all-time, it's probably because he never won in a Starleague, or never played in Proleague, or was only relevant in one expansion, or never won when his race was weak, or some other reason that this tournament isn't gonna change.
|
On January 29 2024 11:45 Fango wrote:
Serral sweeping another tournament (on top of the countless others) absolutely makes his GOAT case better.
It's just not gonna move him in anyone's rankings because all the greatest players have long lists of different achievements that one tournament alone isn't swinging things unless maybe it's a GSL or World Championship.
Put it this way, if you rank Serral lower than other players all-time, it's probably because he never won in a Starleague, or never played in Proleague, or was only relevant in one expansion, or never won when his race was weak, or some other reason that this tournament isn't gonna change.
I think the majority on this forum (who post consistently) have made up their minds about this already, so I'd agree that anything short of a World Championship won't move the needle for most.
That being said, still a sick and dominant run that shouldn't be taken for granted (but will). 15-1 against the likes of Maru/Solar/Reynor/Hero in the playoffs. Guarantees nothing for Kato, but a cool 17k never hurt anyone.
|
|
|
On January 29 2024 05:26 Antithesis wrote:Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often. Show nested quote +On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote:On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote:On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote:
The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field.
If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career.
I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it.
|
On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player
So we have a GOAT and a CUBE. I like it. And sometimes those two do in fact align to a GOATCUBE
|
On January 29 2024 18:45 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 05:26 Antithesis wrote:Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often. On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote:On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote:On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote:
The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field. If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career. I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it.
Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them?
Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**.
Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope.
A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested.
|
On January 29 2024 19:26 Harris1st wrote:
GOATCUBE
This gave me the mental image of something like BonsaiKitten, just with a goat pressed into a glass cube. 
|
On January 29 2024 20:49 LostUsername100 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 18:45 tigera6 wrote:On January 29 2024 05:26 Antithesis wrote:Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often. On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote:On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote:On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote:
The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field. If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career. I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it. Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them? Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**. Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope. A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested.
Serral in the last few years definitely is the most dominant player ever, however the circumstances also massively favor him. Due to his late arrival to the scene he was able to spend all his peak years during an era where most of the other Goat contenders are already declined or retired, and further he plays by far the best performing race at the pro level (4 out of the top 5 players since 2018 are Zerg). Due to this I think he's only a Goat contender and not the definitive Goat.
And despite his dominance his record at the biggest events (Blizzcon, Katowice, Gamers8, WESG) is still worse than that of some other players (2 wins in 11 attempts since 2018), and he doesn't participate in the GSL
|
On January 29 2024 20:49 LostUsername100 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 18:45 tigera6 wrote:On January 29 2024 05:26 Antithesis wrote:Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often. On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote:On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote:On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote:
The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field. If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career. I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it. Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them? Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**. Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope. A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested.
I think the Chess tournament is F up big time, you play the in the Chess World Cup to be eligible for the Candidate tournament that in turn to get the right to play the World Champion. And the reason why Magnus Carlsen has only won the Chess World Cup once? Because he has chosen to NOT playing in it, partly because he was the reigning World Champ for 10 years. He won the latest Chess World Cup after refusing to defend his World Champion title previously, and now he also refuse to play in the Candidate tournament. I went a bit off tangent, but basically Magnus was very dominant, and the reason hes not winning any tournament enough times is simply because he chose not to play in it.
Anyway, I do agree Serral is the most consistently great player in SC2, does that equivalent to being GOAT? Maybe, I would still want to see more megaprize winning from him.
|
On January 29 2024 21:20 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:This gave me the mental image of something like BonsaiKitten, just with a goat pressed into a glass cube.
Writing my post, that was exactly what I had in mind. Now think of that GOAT in a fluffy carbot animations style and we are there. A close second image I had in mind was the companion cube from Portal is with some goat horns
|
On January 29 2024 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 20:49 LostUsername100 wrote:On January 29 2024 18:45 tigera6 wrote:On January 29 2024 05:26 Antithesis wrote:Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often. On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote:On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote:On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote:
The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field. If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career. I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it. Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them? Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**. Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope. A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested. Serral in the last few years definitely is the most dominant player ever, however the circumstances also massively favor him. Due to his late arrival to the scene he was able to spend all his peak years during an era where most of the other Goat contenders are already declined or retired, and further he plays by far the best performing race at the pro level (4 out of the top 5 players since 2018 are Zerg). Due to this I think he's only a Goat contender and not the definitive Goat. And despite his dominance his record at the biggest events (Blizzcon, Katowice, Gamers8, WESG) is still worse than that of some other players (2 wins in 11 attempts since 2018), and he doesn't participate in the GSL
Him not participating in GSL doesnt work against him. Juts doesnt work in favor. It's a region locked tournament for christ sake. You have to actually live in Korea.
|
On January 30 2024 20:23 Locutus_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On January 29 2024 20:49 LostUsername100 wrote:On January 29 2024 18:45 tigera6 wrote:On January 29 2024 05:26 Antithesis wrote:Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often. On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote:On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote:On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote:
The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field. If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career. I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it. Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them? Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**. Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope. A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested. Serral in the last few years definitely is the most dominant player ever, however the circumstances also massively favor him. Due to his late arrival to the scene he was able to spend all his peak years during an era where most of the other Goat contenders are already declined or retired, and further he plays by far the best performing race at the pro level (4 out of the top 5 players since 2018 are Zerg). Due to this I think he's only a Goat contender and not the definitive Goat. And despite his dominance his record at the biggest events (Blizzcon, Katowice, Gamers8, WESG) is still worse than that of some other players (2 wins in 11 attempts since 2018), and he doesn't participate in the GSL Him not participating in GSL doesnt work against him. Juts doesnt work in favor. It's a region locked tournament for christ sake. You have to actually live in Korea.
Like Reynor, Astrea, Special, Scarlett, etc.?
|
On January 30 2024 01:19 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 20:49 LostUsername100 wrote:On January 29 2024 18:45 tigera6 wrote:On January 29 2024 05:26 Antithesis wrote:Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often. On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote:On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote:On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote:
The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field. If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career. I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it. Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them? Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**. Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope. A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested. I think the Chess tournament is F up big time, you play the in the Chess World Cup to be eligible for the Candidate tournament that in turn to get the right to play the World Champion. And the reason why Magnus Carlsen has only won the Chess World Cup once? Because he has chosen to NOT playing in it, partly because he was the reigning World Champ for 10 years. He won the latest Chess World Cup after refusing to defend his World Champion title previously, and now he also refuse to play in the Candidate tournament. I went a bit off tangent, but basically Magnus was very dominant, and the reason hes not winning any tournament enough times is simply because he chose not to play in it. Anyway, I do agree Serral is the most consistently great player in SC2, does that equivalent to being GOAT? Maybe, I would still want to see more megaprize winning from him.
Magnus attended the Chess World Cup 5x, he won it once, 3x he attended as the worlds #1.
Statistically I'm pretty sure Magnus is a lot less dominant than Serral, Chess is just way more competitive.
|
On January 30 2024 21:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 20:23 Locutus_ wrote:On January 29 2024 22:12 Charoisaur wrote:On January 29 2024 20:49 LostUsername100 wrote:On January 29 2024 18:45 tigera6 wrote:On January 29 2024 05:26 Antithesis wrote:Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often. On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote:On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote:On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote:On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote:
The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field. If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career. I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it. Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them? Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**. Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope. A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested. Serral in the last few years definitely is the most dominant player ever, however the circumstances also massively favor him. Due to his late arrival to the scene he was able to spend all his peak years during an era where most of the other Goat contenders are already declined or retired, and further he plays by far the best performing race at the pro level (4 out of the top 5 players since 2018 are Zerg). Due to this I think he's only a Goat contender and not the definitive Goat. And despite his dominance his record at the biggest events (Blizzcon, Katowice, Gamers8, WESG) is still worse than that of some other players (2 wins in 11 attempts since 2018), and he doesn't participate in the GSL Him not participating in GSL doesnt work against him. Juts doesnt work in favor. It's a region locked tournament for christ sake. You have to actually live in Korea. Like Reynor, Astrea, Special, Scarlett, etc.?
So? Serral lives in Finland, likes to live in Finland and doesn't feel compelled to move to Korea for a few months to play in a tournament that has a lot of prestige, but not much monetary reward, even if you win it. Reynor doesn't seem to mind moving around as much for weeks/months on end. I don't think it's something you can hold against Serral. Probably could've in 2013 when Korea was the only region that mattered, also financially. But right now I'd bet Serral would *lose* money if he had to move to Korea to play a season of GSL even if he won it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
