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Master's Coliseum/7Tuesday, Jan 23 11:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) - Sunday, Jan 28 11:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
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[WTL 2023] Master's Coliseum 7 - Playoffs
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
digmouse
China6330 Posts
Master's Coliseum/7Tuesday, Jan 23 11:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) - Sunday, Jan 28 11:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) Streams SCBoy WardiTV | SteadfastSC | RotterdaM | CranKy Ducklings Legendk | IntoTheiNu | CrankBracket | ||
Poopi
France12909 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
On January 23 2024 19:45 Argonauta wrote: I am really puzzled why there was no bo3 seed matches to decide between 1 and 2 ; 3 and 4 etc. it wouldn't not have been much extra to add one of those each day. No? Why? Whats wrong with how its decided now? | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On January 23 2024 20:15 Kreuger wrote: Why? Whats wrong with how its decided now? Maru and herO share the top 1. Serral/Reynor share position 3. Nothing wrong with that, as they go to different sides of the table. But its more arbitrary than playing those placement bo3 matches and having a clear 1, 2, 3.... etc. | ||
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
On January 23 2024 20:27 Argonauta wrote: Maru and herO share the top 1. Serral/Reynor share position 3. Nothing wrong with that, as they go to different sides of the table. But its more arbitrary than playing those placement bo3 matches and having a clear 1, 2, 3.... etc. Well, the spots are decided clearly by the rules. Cant see the meaning of adding more. | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 23 2024 20:32 Argonauta wrote: Happy that Maru won, but I think new cyclones are just silly and too damm good vs workers. Feels Like the old hellbat in tvt kinda. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On January 23 2024 20:33 Kreuger wrote: Well, the spots are decided clearly by the rules. Cant see the meaning of adding more. Are they? then how it comes there are 2 No1? (it coudl also be thatl iquipedia is wrong.... but i doubt so) | ||
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digmouse
China6330 Posts
On January 23 2024 20:36 Argonauta wrote: Are they? then how it comes there are 2 No1? (it coudl also be thatl iquipedia is wrong.... but i doubt so) herO and Maru are tied after map differential and head to head, so they were seeded randomly (between their 1st and 2nd slots I believe) per the rules, Maru got the 1st seed slot, herO got the 2nd place one. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On January 23 2024 20:38 digmouse wrote: herO and Maru are tied after map differential and head to head, so they were seeded randomly (between their 1st and 2nd slots I believe) per the rules, Maru got the 1st seed slot, herO got the 2nd place one. and serral and reynor and solar and maxpax. My point was that making seeding matches will avoid coinflips. Thats all | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On January 23 2024 21:01 tigera6 wrote: Both Maru and Serral crushing their matchup today, setting up that Bo7 match, goddamn it MC should send them to different bracket. Isn't it a Bo5? I just saw it on Liquidpedia. | ||
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
On January 23 2024 21:06 buzz_bender wrote: Isn't it a Bo5? I just saw it on Liquidpedia. Semi is bo7 | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
nvm its Bo5, after that the rest of the tournament are Bo7 | ||
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
On January 23 2024 21:20 tigera6 wrote: nvm its Bo5, after that the rest of the tournament are Bo7 Except the finals, bo9  | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1262 Posts
On January 23 2024 20:51 Argonauta wrote: and serral and reynor and solar and maxpax. My point was that making seeding matches will avoid coinflips. Thats all Before you do seeding matches, you could also do Buchholz-score first to seed | ||
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
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yubo56
690 Posts
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yubo56
690 Posts
On January 24 2024 21:18 Kreuger wrote: 4-0 Dark. Didnt see the games, close or onesided? Pretty one sided. Quick synopsis G1 - Dark gold base first on Alcyone, goes 2gas ravager vs 6 gate glaives, loses only 5 drones. MP goes for disruptor adept stalker followup with late third, dark holds perfectly with roach ling bane, then just walks across the map and ends the game. G2 - Dark goes ling queen nydus vs oracles, kills the nat nexus, and kinda just stays ahead the entire game. MP never crosses the halfway mark trying to assemble his carrier archon templar deathball, but Dark does a bunch of multiprong with ultras, lings, and corruptors, and eventually kills MP's bases without allowing the deathball to spiral out of control G3 - Dark goes for +1 melee pressure vs VR+2 oracle into blink, kills the fourth with lings while trading 20 banes for 13 probes. Very fast hive tech allows him to have vipers for a blink colossus push, and then ultras to end the game G4 - Dark goes for a queen walk on solaris (shortest rush distance map I think, with the accel zones), MP goes 3 oracle into dark shrine, but the DTs come out too late to save the nat. Dark closes out the game with roach ravager | ||
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
On January 24 2024 22:45 yubo56 wrote: Pretty one sided. Quick synopsis G1 - Dark gold base first on Alcyone, goes 2gas ravager vs 6 gate glaives, loses only 5 drones. MP goes for disruptor adept stalker followup with late third, dark holds perfectly with roach ling bane, then just walks across the map and ends the game. G2 - Dark goes ling queen nydus vs oracles, kills the nat nexus, and kinda just stays ahead the entire game. MP never crosses the halfway mark trying to assemble his carrier archon templar deathball, but Dark does a bunch of multiprong with ultras, lings, and corruptors, and eventually kills MP's bases without allowing the deathball to spiral out of control G3 - Dark goes for +1 melee pressure vs VR+2 oracle into blink, kills the fourth with lings while trading 20 banes for 13 probes. Very fast hive tech allows him to have vipers for a blink colossus push, and then ultras to end the game G4 - Dark goes for a queen walk on solaris (shortest rush distance map I think, with the accel zones), MP goes 3 oracle into dark shrine, but the DTs come out too late to save the nat. Dark closes out the game with roach ravager Thanks | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
remaining players are 4Z, 1P, 1T but hopefully Maru can come out on top anyways lol | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
let's go Maru! | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
On January 25 2024 21:14 darklycid wrote: Unsure if serral has a better day or maru a worse day than the last time they met but today marus decisions and compositions dont feel as clean as last time. Some of both, Serral messed up basic early game defenses in their last series and was constantly behind as a result, but Maru is also looking less crisp. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 25 2024 21:15 dysenterymd wrote: Some of both, Serral messed up basic early game defenses in their last series and was constantly behind as a result, but Maru is also looking less crisp. Ye with these 2 at this point it feels like whoever has the better day wins. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 25 2024 21:29 Poopi wrote: Maru last terran hope, seems like zergs figured out ZvT again! I dont think you can say that yet, maru did a lib transition in every game the last time and this time he did meh early games and then did mech and tank transitions again. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
at this point the 3rd forge seems like it was pointless I was expecting a 3-3-3 timing attack | ||
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
On January 25 2024 21:31 darklycid wrote: I dont think you can say that yet, maru did a lib transition in every game the last time and this time he did meh early games and then did mech and tank transitions again. I mean if top Zergs and Terrans trade series like that it’s quite healthy, the « form » of the day seems to matter with both parties having a good shot at winning if they play well | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 25 2024 22:27 Poopi wrote: I mean if top Zergs and Terrans trade series like that it’s quite healthy, the « form » of the day seems to matter with both parties having a good shot at winning if they play well Yea i agree but figured out often means we are in for zome zerg dominance thats why i would be careful to say that :D | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4041 Posts
On January 25 2024 21:17 darklycid wrote: Ye with these 2 at this point it feels like whoever has the better day wins. And that's how it should be between champions, very similar to rivalries in some other sports | ||
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ZeroByte13
784 Posts
On January 25 2024 22:30 darklycid wrote: Watch Zerg having all of top-4 here and then winning Kato with at least 2-3 zergs in semis. Yea i agree but figured out often means we are in for zome zerg dominance thats why i would be careful to say that :D | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On January 25 2024 22:51 ZeroByte13 wrote: Watch Zerg having all of top-4 here and then winning Kato with at least 2-3 zergs in semis. Maru/herO could try to make a run through 4 top Zerg to win this tournament, but I doubt it would happen. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4041 Posts
On January 25 2024 23:16 TossHeroes wrote: Goat Serral stomping Maru as usual when games really matters this is just lazy and poor taste. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Glorfindelio
221 Posts
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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Antithesis
Germany1230 Posts
And now whoever makes the run in the lower bracket must face Serral in a BO9 in the finals. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On January 25 2024 23:55 Antithesis wrote: Serral first 3-0'ing Maru, and then 4-0'ing Reynor. The guy is unreal. And now whoever makes the run in the lower bracket must face Serral in a BO9 in the finals. To be fair, whoever could beat Serral in the upper bracket would probably have to face him in a Bo9 as well, theres just not much of an advantage here for Winner Bracket, other than a couple extra day of rest. Even the Lower Bracket final will be played on the day before so attrition should not be an issue neither. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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JohnMatrix
France1358 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On January 25 2024 23:55 Antithesis wrote: Serral first 3-0'ing Maru, and then 4-0'ing Reynor. The guy is unreal. And now whoever makes the run in the lower bracket must face Serral in a BO9 in the finals. It sounds crazy, but I honestly think Reynor and Maru have better odds off losing to Serral in the UB and then rematching in the finals. You only get one chance to beat him. Serral just doesn't make the same mistakes twice, he's too good at fixing his game. If either of them beat him today I think he would have 100% beaten them in the finals rematch. | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On January 25 2024 21:43 Die4Ever wrote: herO got triple forge and then not 3-3-3, just stopped at 2-2-2 at this point the 3rd forge seems like it was pointless I was expecting a 3-3-3 timing attack I'm pretty sure that was the plan, but when his 2-2-2 finished he was just too poor and not even close to Reynor's supply, so he had to invest his resources into immediate power. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1262 Posts
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JJH777
United States4415 Posts
On January 26 2024 05:20 Balnazza wrote: Honestly curious: Does anyone know if Serral was not yet in full-training or ill or something? How do you switch yourself on so hard in such a short amount of time?! I feel like he (and all the Zergs really, Rogue and Reynor are the even bigger offenders) do this literally every single year before the world championship. I swear they practice at 50% for half the year to not get nerfed and then go fulltime a month before Katowice. Last year it didn't work out because Serral got ZvZ'd out and Rogue was in the military but this seems like a definite pattern. 2018 doesn't apply to Serral but does for Rogue, he looked mediocre in everything but was in top shape for Blizzcon and him vs Serral would have undoubtedly been the finals with a different bracket. 2019 Zerg in general seems weak vs Toss for the first few months of the year, soO comes out of nowhere to win Kato Stats won ASUS ROG beating Serral, Serral dumpsters him at Blizzcon 2 months later. 2020 - lots of talk about Zerg struggling on the new patch, meh online results, Rogue stomps Kato. 2021 - Trap dominating everything including winning matches against Reynor and Serral, TY looking great sometimes, Reynor stomps 2022 - Maru looks to be by far the best player in the world, is on a win streak vs every top Zerg, gets stomped by Reynor and Serral 2023 - streak finally broken for Kato but mostly due to ZvZ and Rogue retirement. Applies to Reynor for Gamers8. | ||
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
On January 26 2024 05:40 JJH777 wrote: I feel like he (and all the Zergs really, Rogue and Reynor are the even bigger offenders) do this literally every single year before the world championship. I swear they practice at 50% for half the year to not get nerfed and then go fulltime a month before Katowice. Last year it didn't work out because Serral got ZvZ'd out and Rogue was in the military but this seems like a definite pattern. 2018 doesn't apply to Serral but does for Rogue, he looked mediocre in everything but was in top shape for Blizzcon and him vs Serral would have undoubtedly been the finals with a different bracket. 2019 Zerg in general seems weak vs Toss for the first few months of the year, soO comes out of nowhere to win Kato Stats won ASUS ROG beating Serral, Serral dumpsters him at Blizzcon 2 months later. 2020 - lots of talk about Zerg struggling on the new patch, meh online results, Rogue stomps Kato. 2021 - Trap dominating everything including winning matches against Reynor and Serral, TY looking great sometimes, Reynor stomps 2022 - Maru looks to be by far the best player in the world, is on a win streak vs every top Zerg, gets stomped by Reynor and Serral 2023 - streak finally broken for Kato but mostly due to ZvZ and Rogue retirement. Applies to Reynor for Gamers8. Afaik Serral / Neeb (when he was still active) and Maru practice all the time basically, while some other players mostly practice before the (big I guess) tournaments. So it’s probably Serral adjusting to what he lost to and/or Maru not playing as well because reasons It’s pretty obvious that Rogue and now Reynor practice on / off given their results patterns, but it doesn’t hold true for every zerg | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18219 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33559 Posts
On January 26 2024 05:20 Balnazza wrote: Honestly curious: Does anyone know if Serral was not yet in full-training or ill or something? How do you switch yourself on so hard in such a short amount of time?! The answer is that SC2 has a lot more variance than fans think and you should never read too deeply into the result of a single series (unless you're a TL.net writer making narratives  ) | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On January 26 2024 05:40 JJH777 wrote: I feel like he (and all the Zergs really, Rogue and Reynor are the even bigger offenders) do this literally every single year before the world championship. I swear they practice at 50% for half the year to not get nerfed and then go fulltime a month before Katowice. Last year it didn't work out because Serral got ZvZ'd out and Rogue was in the military but this seems like a definite pattern. Maybe players in general practice extremely hard before World Championships. It's just that 4/5 of the contenders to win things are zerg. Except for Rogue who shows up to cheer for his teammates and then wins anyway | ||
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ZeroByte13
784 Posts
On January 25 2024 23:16 TossHeroes wrote: Someone ban this guy already, they are trolling most probably but this is a sad type of trolling.Goat Serral stomping Maru as usual when games really matters | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On January 26 2024 10:00 ZeroByte13 wrote: Someone ban this guy already, they are trolling most probably but this is a sad type of trolling. Yeah it’s so transparent either he’s an awful troll or a genuine idiot, although I wouldn’t advocate for banning the latter | ||
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Infested.rine
33 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7089 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1399 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
edit: lol can't believe he lost this like this. | ||
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Glorfindelio
221 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
Ggs to Dark, great resilience | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
On January 26 2024 22:48 tigera6 wrote: Like I said, while its better to suck now than later, this is just a very stupidly bad series with lots of oversight from Maru. After playing some very clean and effective TvZ opening in the group stage, he suddenly felt bored and play god awful again. It's useful to do some limit testing on tournaments with decent stakes before Katowice though, vZ is gonna be the main difficulty for those who want to lift the trophy | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
But well done to Dark for winning his 3rd game 7, he's now 3/12 (fixed) all time in premier events | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18219 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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lokol4890
114 Posts
On January 27 2024 00:35 Acrofales wrote: Maru looked happier losing than Dark did winning. Maybe the throw was intentional? From what I've seen maru for the most part looks happier when losing than winning. He honestly may just be trying stuff. Beat both serral and dark in groups playing super fast. Then in the playoffs started trying different builds against serral. Tbh if I were him I wouldn't be showing all my builds or playing as fast as I can in two BO7s against Dark and Reynor and a BO9 against serral. Especially since iirc at the beginning of the tournament he still had the sling on his arm | ||
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yubo56
690 Posts
On January 27 2024 00:25 Fango wrote: Collosal throw by Maru. He was cruising in that game but just refused to remake his wall?? But well done to Dark for winning his 3rd game 7, he's now 3/11 all time Wait, I thought the previous 2/11 you were quoting was only for premier finals, no? Actually, searching through it now, Aligulac says he's 8-12 in Bo7 (search http://aligulac.com/results/search/?search=&after=&before=&players=Dark 76&event=&bestof=5&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= for "3-4" and "4-3") The difference is that in the 3-4 category he has 2 Ro4s and 2 pig events, the remaining 8 being premier finals, while in the 4-3 category the only premier win is the 4-3 over Maru in DH Valencia. So he's 8-12 in Bo7, but only 1-8 in premier finals | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On January 27 2024 02:25 yubo56 wrote: Wait, I thought the previous 2/11 you were quoting was only for premier finals, no? Actually, searching through it now, Aligulac says he's 8-12 in Bo7 (search http://aligulac.com/results/search/?search=&after=&before=&players=Dark 76&event=&bestof=5&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= for "3-4" and "4-3") The difference is that in the 3-4 category he has 2 Ro4s and 2 pig events, the remaining 8 being premier finals, while in the 4-3 category the only premier win is the 4-3 over Maru in DH Valencia. So he's 8-12 in Bo7, but only 1-8 in premier finals I should clarify, it was just game 7s in premier events, not just finals. Including the one game 7 he played in proleague (which was one of the biggest games of his career), it's 3/12. His only game 7 wins in premier events are SSL 2016 ro4 vs Classic, DH Valencia vs Maru, and this win today. | ||
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Kitai
United States880 Posts
Feel free to quote this and shame me if Maru comes into IEM with the most earth-shattering, meta-revolutionizing builds in the coming weeks, but as of right now, I remain skeptical. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On January 27 2024 17:23 Kitai wrote: I've always found the "he lost on purpose to save his builds for XYZ" argument to be the absolute silliest made up excuse parroted on the forums since nearly the dawn of SC2. Sometimes your favorite player just didn't play as well as the other one that day. Feel free to quote this and shame me if Maru comes into IEM with the most earth-shattering, meta-revolutionizing builds in the coming weeks, but as of right now, I remain skeptical. Aye, I don’t doubt players will pocket builds for Katowice, but that likely includes the whole field. Mary didn’t really do anything funky in groups and took some good scalps. Then likewise in playoffs and dropped out. Aside from anything else if there’s a T player aside from Clem whose approach is less in bespoke builds and more ‘I’ll play straight up and outplay you’ it’s surely Maru anyway. | ||
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
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ZeroByte13
784 Posts
Oh wait, two is alreayd too many. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Locutus_
Brazil65 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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Ciaus237
South Africa287 Posts
On January 27 2024 21:19 Locutus_ wrote: It would be so cool to have herO in the finals With how herO has played his last 3 or 4 games, no it wouldn't | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3128 Posts
On January 27 2024 21:42 Die4Ever wrote: how does herO make such sloppy mistakes sometimes while still kicking ass? lol As this series v. Reynor demonstrates, herO is the undisputed master of snatching defeat from victory from defeat. And occasionally victory from defeat from victory from defeat. Yeah. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On January 27 2024 22:27 Captain Peabody wrote: As this series v. Reynor demonstrates, herO is the undisputed master of snatching defeat from victory from defeat. And occasionally victory from defeat from victory from defeat. Yeah. Being a fan and a Toss lad man it can be painful but at least it’s almost always entertainingly so | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
we need Parting to start playing in these tournaments | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On January 27 2024 22:48 Die4Ever wrote: herO already in firing range of the enemy units: blinks forwards instead of using blink to keep individual stalkers alive... we need Parting to start playing in these tournaments It’s a power move, like turning on prismatic alignment on Voids even when they’re not fighting anything they’d get the bonus damage on | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
On January 27 2024 22:54 WombaT wrote: It’s a power move, like turning on prismatic alignment on Voids even when they’re not fighting anything they’d get the bonus damage on I miss manner mules, someone call Bomber | ||
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bulldozer06701
149 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
herO had the perfect anti-ling ultra army and still got cleaned by neural. What's even the cunterplay? | ||
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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stilt
France2754 Posts
After 13 years who would have know | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3128 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3128 Posts
On January 27 2024 22:27 Captain Peabody wrote: As this series v. Reynor demonstrates, herO is the undisputed master of snatching defeat from victory from defeat. And occasionally victory from defeat from victory from defeat. Yeah. That game was...victory from defeat from victory from defeat from victory from defeat from victory????????? | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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bulldozer06701
149 Posts
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Nasigil
137 Posts
No matter the outcome tomorrow against Serral, this is already one of the most incredible PvZ runs we've seen, herO literally just went throught no.4, no.3 and no.2 best Zergs in the world and is going to challenge no.1. | ||
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
Ggs herO | ||
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xiaodangao
5 Posts
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
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JJH777
United States4415 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Serral did Lose against Maru in the Groups but also beat him later on They both didn t have perfect runs but redeemd themsekves on their paths to the final. Well deserved from both of them, I m hoping for some close games tomorrow | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1865 Posts
On January 28 2024 00:53 dysenterymd wrote: Amazing stuff by herO, whatever happens tomorrow I hope he can bring this form to Katowice and give Protoss hope. If he can avoid the strong terrans it's definitely possible. | ||
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angry_maia
327 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 28 2024 02:40 angry_maia wrote: i'll be pretty happy if Hero can take 2 maps off of serral. I'm expecting a 4-1 serral, and would be bummed about a 4-0 its a bo9 tho  | ||
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Glorfindelio
221 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18219 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4041 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
On January 28 2024 18:47 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: just imagine, one of Dark, Maru, Reynor and herO will NOT be playing in Katowice playoffs. ESL is actually the worst at building groups and brackets lol | ||
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
On January 28 2024 19:11 Die4Ever wrote: ESL is actually the worst at building groups and brackets lol Would be even worse if they changed how they draw the groups now in fear of the fall out, pointsystems can create these situations | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 28 2024 19:18 Kreuger wrote: Would be even worse if they changed how they draw the groups now in fear of the fall out, pointsystems can create these situations The issue is less the Points but the random Draw within the buckets. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
infestors are apparently hackers | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
On January 28 2024 20:59 Charoisaur wrote: what is herO doing? he's trying to give Serral a chance lol | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
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Glorfindelio
221 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
On January 28 2024 21:13 Poopi wrote: What a throw from herO, why didn’t he kill Serral early on? hiding strats until Katowice /s | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
well, AMove Carriers and Archon/Immortal isnt much a strat, but yeah. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On January 28 2024 21:13 Argonauta wrote: The thig that bugs me the most is that Serral did nothing. herO just didnt wanted to win. it's not even that herO didn't know he had such a big advantage, he saw Serral's drone count with his oracles the entire time. | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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Glorfindelio
221 Posts
On January 28 2024 21:13 Argonauta wrote: The thig that bugs me the most is that Serral did nothing. herO just didnt wanted to win. He could have killed Serral 6 different ways. Literally. Bonkers decision-making from HerO. | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
Serral played well obviously - he knew that his only win condition was somehow dragging it into late game and he went for it - but it's not like Serral needed to make miracle defense after miracle defense, herO just let him do it. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On January 28 2024 21:15 darklycid wrote: Ya idk herO just did a showtime or was too afraid or smth, makes no sense at all but this finals is probably just done. What makes it even more baffling is that it's completely out of character for the guy who is known for always attacking regardless of the position he is in. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 28 2024 21:17 Charoisaur wrote: What makes it even more baffling is that it's completely out of character for the guy who is known for always attacking regardless of the position he is in. Yep it's maddening (but we had banger series before the finals so the finals had to be a disappointment). | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On January 28 2024 21:25 Durnuu wrote: herO should've just transitioned straight into a chargelot all-in after holding and killing a couple of queens in Serral's base, instead of going for more air which Serral countered by making queens he would have made anyway the carriers were fine, he would've won if he amoved them across at any time before Serral was maxed | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4041 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On January 28 2024 21:32 Die4Ever wrote: alright time for the reverse sweep, pretty sure we've never seen a reverse sweep in a bo9 before lol I don't even remember when I last saw a bo9 finals, it's honestly too much for me. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
On January 28 2024 21:32 Die4Ever wrote: alright time for the reverse sweep, pretty sure we've never seen a reverse sweep in a bo9 before lol Sjow reverse swept Socke in a bo9 in IPL Fight Club, though of course that is pretty low-profile. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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Locutus_
Brazil65 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On January 28 2024 22:05 Locutus_ wrote: The GOAT strikes again I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote: I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player I think people need to Stop bringing Up the goat stuff every fucking Tournament serral or Maru do very Well or very Bad (for their Standards) in, its Just annoying af. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 28 2024 22:14 tigera6 wrote: Well, thats how they are, Serral/Maru won its GOAT, when they lose its excuses, and I am guilty of that as well. Anyway, looking great for Serral into IEM, but I am more excited for that group D now, all 4 guys looking busted AF, although Dark has trouble winning macro game. I still hate group D because i want Them all in the Playoffs now. | ||
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Nasigil
137 Posts
I guess Serral is just that much better than every other Zerg out there in ZvP. He doesn't make mistakes. If you don't play 100% perfect as well you have no chance to win. | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 28 2024 22:22 Nasigil wrote: After the legendary G7 against Reynor yesterday I expected herO to put up a bit of a better fight against Serral than what it was today ... but sadly it was very one sided. I guess Serral is just that much better than every other Zerg out there in ZvP. He doesn't make mistakes. If you don't play 100% perfect as well you have no chance to win. If He didnt do mistakes herO would have been never able to throw g3 as hard as He did, serral Just knows what He Has to do to win and Well in Games Like that herO let him. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On January 28 2024 22:33 darklycid wrote: If He didnt do mistakes herO would have been never able to throw g3 as hard as He did, serral Just knows what He Has to do to win and Well in Games Like that herO let him. usually comebacks are a mixbag of mistakes done by the player in the winning position and amazing/clever plays done by the player in the losing position. That game 3 however was none of it. Serral didnt do anything at all. herO was just so passive he let serral fully recover . Which why that was a throw and not a comeback | ||
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Locutus_
Brazil65 Posts
On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote: I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? | ||
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Locutus_
Brazil65 Posts
On January 28 2024 22:14 tigera6 wrote: Well, thats how they are, Serral/Maru won its GOAT, when they lose its excuses, and I am guilty of that as well. Anyway, looking great for Serral into IEM, but I am more excited for that group D now, all 4 guys looking busted AF, although Dark has trouble winning macro game. You annoy yourself easily. OFC we are bringing up the GOAT subject when a GOAT contender wins a tournament.... Its not like its every weekend it happens | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On January 28 2024 23:14 Locutus_ wrote: current best player for 6 years? Half the life of SCII? Thats current for you? How many world title has he won in those 6 years? Counting Blizzcon/IEM/WESG/Gamers. This is not Tiger Woods mopping the field, or Federer beating everyone outside of Nadal in French Open. Hes the most consistent players, but he has had moment of slip up and "choke" as well. People giving Maru a harsh time, deservingly so, for blowing the Final against Oliveira, but nobody bringing up how Serral lost to Ragnarok after IEM, like thats just a bad nightmare and never happened before. Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Maru won 7 GSL and at this point another 1-2 GSL won doesnt matter to most us. We all want to see them winning the next IEM-type tournament and will give them a flower when that happen. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On January 28 2024 23:18 Locutus_ wrote: You annoy yourself easily. OFC we are bringing up the GOAT subject when a GOAT contender wins a tournament.... Its not like its every weekend it happens Read my response above, I would never call Maru GOAT even if he win 2-3 more GSL/ESL, he need to win IEM/Gamers8 to make his case in view. But thats just me. | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 28 2024 23:18 Locutus_ wrote: You annoy yourself easily. OFC we are bringing up the GOAT subject when a GOAT contender wins a tournament.... Its not like its every weekend it happens No i annoy myself at These Low Level bait Posts that add nothing to any discussion in Here, If the only contribution you have to These threads is the goat stuff please keep it in the goat Threads. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
I don't see protoss being able to without lucky builds and doing that in a bo9 isn't happening. | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 29 2024 00:05 Fango wrote: Reynor, Maru, and Clem have chances against Serral but that's about it. I don't see protoss being able to without lucky builds and doing that in a bo9 isn't happening. Feels a Bit Like 2018 pvz again, toss is in a competitive Spot zerg is somewhat Stronger in the late lategames and serral is very good at those and very good at getting there. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18219 Posts
On January 28 2024 22:47 Argonauta wrote: usually comebacks are a mixbag of mistakes done by the player in the winning position and amazing/clever plays done by the player in the losing position. That game 3 however was none of it. Serral didnt do anything at all. herO was just so passive he let serral fully recover . Which why that was a throw and not a comeback I don't think that's a fair assessment either. I mean, yes, herO could've attacked at any point before Serral had a bunch of infestors and even ultras out and just crushed. But Serral's fight with infestors and hydras and 2 ultras was extremely good, and he had to put himself in that position. Then the whole go full BL + infestors should NEVER have worked, but for some reason *that* was when herO went full tunnel vision on attacking instead of just pulling back and eating the whole map. It's fair that herO clutched defeat out of the jaws of victory there, but it's not like Serral just sat back and let it happen. After his failed all-in he took every opportunity he was given to claw his way back into the game. | ||
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Locutus_
Brazil65 Posts
On January 29 2024 00:19 darklycid wrote: Feels a Bit Like 2018 pvz again, toss is in a competitive Spot zerg is somewhat Stronger in the late lategames and serral is very good at those and very good at getting there. True. And herO is the new old Stats | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1865 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On January 29 2024 00:31 Acrofales wrote: I don't think that's a fair assessment either. I mean, yes, herO could've attacked at any point before Serral had a bunch of infestors and even ultras out and just crushed. But Serral's fight with infestors and hydras and 2 ultras was extremely good, and he had to put himself in that position. Then the whole go full BL + infestors should NEVER have worked, but for some reason *that* was when herO went full tunnel vision on attacking instead of just pulling back and eating the whole map. It's fair that herO clutched defeat out of the jaws of victory there, but it's not like Serral just sat back and let it happen. After his failed all-in he took every opportunity he was given to claw his way back into the game. Serral did well at the end but at that point the advantage herO had was already mostly gone so the 'comeback' happened without Serral's doing | ||
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Gescom
Canada3509 Posts
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Ciaus237
South Africa287 Posts
HerO was inspired, but also throwing and making lots of blunders against Reynor. Serral is just way too clean and punishing for anyone to get away with that. | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1230 Posts
On January 28 2024 23:23 tigera6 wrote: Winning MC is great, but thats not making his GOAT case that more impressive, cause he has won so many of it already. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
It's just not gonna move him in anyone's rankings because all the greatest players have long lists of different achievements that one tournament alone isn't swinging things unless maybe it's a GSL or World Championship. Put it this way, if you rank Serral lower than other players all-time, it's probably because he never won in a Starleague, or never played in Proleague, or was only relevant in one expansion, or never won when his race was weak, or some other reason that this tournament isn't gonna change. | ||
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Glorfindelio
221 Posts
On January 29 2024 11:45 Fango wrote: Serral sweeping another tournament (on top of the countless others) absolutely makes his GOAT case better. It's just not gonna move him in anyone's rankings because all the greatest players have long lists of different achievements that one tournament alone isn't swinging things unless maybe it's a GSL or World Championship. Put it this way, if you rank Serral lower than other players all-time, it's probably because he never won in a Starleague, or never played in Proleague, or was only relevant in one expansion, or never won when his race was weak, or some other reason that this tournament isn't gonna change. I think the majority on this forum (who post consistently) have made up their minds about this already, so I'd agree that anything short of a World Championship won't move the needle for most. That being said, still a sick and dominant run that shouldn't be taken for granted (but will). 15-1 against the likes of Maru/Solar/Reynor/Hero in the playoffs. Guarantees nothing for Kato, but a cool 17k never hurt anyone. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1865 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On January 29 2024 05:26 Antithesis wrote: Congratulations, Serral. 3-0 vs. Solar, 3-0 vs. Maru, 4-0 vs. Reynor, and 5-1 vs. herO. Ridiculous run, as so often. Yes, it does, and it does so for this exact reason. For every other player, Maru included, sweeping the rest of the global top tier roster in so dominating a fashion would be their best result in a year or so, if not longer or ever. But for Serral, it is just one more clean tournament win among so many others. He is that much stronger than the rest of the field. If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career. I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7089 Posts
On January 28 2024 22:06 Argonauta wrote: I think people needs to understand that GOAT != current best player So we have a GOAT and a CUBE. I like it. And sometimes those two do in fact align to a GOATCUBE | ||
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LostUsername100
96 Posts
On January 29 2024 18:45 tigera6 wrote: If he THAT much stronger than the rest of the field, than he could just show it in the biggest stage in IEM and Gamers8, thats all I am asking. Beating a good online tournament in the fashion he did has its own merit surely, but for him or any other GOAT candidate, its almost like championship-or-bust at this stage of their career. I mean we celebrated Clem for winning his first offline international tournament, and deservingly so, but he still has a VERY long way to go if we ever talk about him even as a top 10 greatest player. Thats the mentality I have when talking about any all-time list, not present accomplishment or performance. Serral is the best/most consistent player in the world currently, but I still want him to win THE chip for it. Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them? Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**. Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope. A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested. | ||
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Crocolisk Dundee
870 Posts
On January 29 2024 19:26 Harris1st wrote: GOATCUBE This gave me the mental image of something like BonsaiKitten, just with a goat pressed into a glass cube. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On January 29 2024 20:49 LostUsername100 wrote: Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them? Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**. Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope. A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested. Serral in the last few years definitely is the most dominant player ever, however the circumstances also massively favor him. Due to his late arrival to the scene he was able to spend all his peak years during an era where most of the other Goat contenders are already declined or retired, and further he plays by far the best performing race at the pro level (4 out of the top 5 players since 2018 are Zerg). Due to this I think he's only a Goat contender and not the definitive Goat. And despite his dominance his record at the biggest events (Blizzcon, Katowice, Gamers8, WESG) is still worse than that of some other players (2 wins in 11 attempts since 2018), and he doesn't participate in the GSL | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On January 29 2024 20:49 LostUsername100 wrote: Not even Serral is guaranteed to win every BoX, all it takes is for you to lose 1 BoX, usually Serral gets eliminated by a 3-2 loss, or 4-3, tournaments in SC2 aren't setup to find who the best player are, they are setup to generate hype and excitement, how fun would it be if every tournament held was a Swiss tournament and Serral won the great majority of them? Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world uncontested for the past >10 years, but Chess does it in a way the defending champion has a much better chance at defending his title, there's one super prestigious tournament in Chess called the "Chess World Cup", it's ran very similar to how SC2 runs tournaments, Magnus Carlsen in over 10 years competing in it, has won that tournament **ONCE**. Serral's dominance is in fact much bigger than Carlsen's but tournaments are setup in such a way people can just look at whatever noise they like to come to whatever conclusion they want, Serral is the most dominant player in SC2's history, for the longest time, and the rest is just cope. A strong second is Maru, then you can talk about the rest all you want, but these 2 are uncontested. I think the Chess tournament is F up big time, you play the in the Chess World Cup to be eligible for the Candidate tournament that in turn to get the right to play the World Champion. And the reason why Magnus Carlsen has only won the Chess World Cup once? Because he has chosen to NOT playing in it, partly because he was the reigning World Champ for 10 years. He won the latest Chess World Cup after refusing to defend his World Champion title previously, and now he also refuse to play in the Candidate tournament. I went a bit off tangent, but basically Magnus was very dominant, and the reason hes not winning any tournament enough times is simply because he chose not to play in it. Anyway, I do agree Serral is the most consistently great player in SC2, does that equivalent to being GOAT? Maybe, I would still want to see more megaprize winning from him. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7089 Posts
On January 29 2024 21:20 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: This gave me the mental image of something like BonsaiKitten, just with a goat pressed into a glass cube. Writing my post, that was exactly what I had in mind. Now think of that GOAT in a fluffy carbot animations style and we are there. A close second image I had in mind was the companion cube from Portal is with some goat horns | ||
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Locutus_
Brazil65 Posts
On January 29 2024 22:12 Charoisaur wrote: Serral in the last few years definitely is the most dominant player ever, however the circumstances also massively favor him. Due to his late arrival to the scene he was able to spend all his peak years during an era where most of the other Goat contenders are already declined or retired, and further he plays by far the best performing race at the pro level (4 out of the top 5 players since 2018 are Zerg). Due to this I think he's only a Goat contender and not the definitive Goat. And despite his dominance his record at the biggest events (Blizzcon, Katowice, Gamers8, WESG) is still worse than that of some other players (2 wins in 11 attempts since 2018), and he doesn't participate in the GSL Him not participating in GSL doesnt work against him. Juts doesnt work in favor. It's a region locked tournament for christ sake. You have to actually live in Korea. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On January 30 2024 20:23 Locutus_ wrote: Him not participating in GSL doesnt work against him. Juts doesnt work in favor. It's a region locked tournament for christ sake. You have to actually live in Korea. Like Reynor, Astrea, Special, Scarlett, etc.? | ||
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LostUsername100
96 Posts
On January 30 2024 01:19 tigera6 wrote: I think the Chess tournament is F up big time, you play the in the Chess World Cup to be eligible for the Candidate tournament that in turn to get the right to play the World Champion. And the reason why Magnus Carlsen has only won the Chess World Cup once? Because he has chosen to NOT playing in it, partly because he was the reigning World Champ for 10 years. He won the latest Chess World Cup after refusing to defend his World Champion title previously, and now he also refuse to play in the Candidate tournament. I went a bit off tangent, but basically Magnus was very dominant, and the reason hes not winning any tournament enough times is simply because he chose not to play in it. Anyway, I do agree Serral is the most consistently great player in SC2, does that equivalent to being GOAT? Maybe, I would still want to see more megaprize winning from him. Magnus attended the Chess World Cup 5x, he won it once, 3x he attended as the worlds #1. Statistically I'm pretty sure Magnus is a lot less dominant than Serral, Chess is just way more competitive. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18219 Posts
On January 30 2024 21:24 Charoisaur wrote: Like Reynor, Astrea, Special, Scarlett, etc.? So? Serral lives in Finland, likes to live in Finland and doesn't feel compelled to move to Korea for a few months to play in a tournament that has a lot of prestige, but not much monetary reward, even if you win it. Reynor doesn't seem to mind moving around as much for weeks/months on end. I don't think it's something you can hold against Serral. Probably could've in 2013 when Korea was the only region that mattered, also financially. But right now I'd bet Serral would *lose* money if he had to move to Korea to play a season of GSL even if he won it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On January 30 2024 22:58 Acrofales wrote: So? Serral lives in Finland, likes to live in Finland and doesn't feel compelled to move to Korea for a few months to play in a tournament that has a lot of prestige, but not much monetary reward, even if you win it. Reynor doesn't seem to mind moving around as much for weeks/months on end. I don't think it's something you can hold against Serral. Probably could've in 2013 when Korea was the only region that mattered, also financially. But right now I'd bet Serral would *lose* money if he had to move to Korea to play a season of GSL even if he won it. Yeah and who’s to say it wouldn’t impact his mental health and he doesn’t show his best play over there? Which kind of defeats the whole interest in him trying a Starleague to begin with. I’d love to see it, but I don’t think it’s a reasonable expectation either. Just as, whatever the reasons I don’t feel MaxPax owes the fans anything in playing offline. | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
On January 30 2024 23:14 WombaT wrote: Are Koreans actually precluded from playing in WCS if they live there? Or is there a permanent residency/citizenship requirement in this iteration? Per the rulebook: "Participation in non-Global competitions in the “Rest of the World” (e.g. SC2 Masters Europe) is prohibited for South Korean citizens that are not also citizens of another country nor have permanent residency in such country (i.e. being legally qualified for permanent residency in such country and having lived in such country for at least one year at the time of the first match of the competition). If a player not fulfilling these requirements can clearly prove their permanent residency in an eligible country otherwise, ESL may grant an exception. This will usually only happen in cases where the player has no other chance to take part in competitions leading into the Masters Championship" And it is still asymetric, foreigners can participate in GSL with no restraint (other than the obvious being on location while the tournament is happening). | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On January 31 2024 00:07 Durnuu wrote: Per the rulebook: "Participation in non-Global competitions in the “Rest of the World” (e.g. SC2 Masters Europe) is prohibited for South Korean citizens that are not also citizens of another country nor have permanent residency in such country (i.e. being legally qualified for permanent residency in such country and having lived in such country for at least one year at the time of the first match of the competition). If a player not fulfilling these requirements can clearly prove their permanent residency in an eligible country otherwise, ESL may grant an exception. This will usually only happen in cases where the player has no other chance to take part in competitions leading into the Masters Championship" And it is still asymetric, foreigners can participate in GSL with no restraint (other than the obvious being on location while the tournament is happening). This is the bit that is the most outrageous of all the region lock legislation. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On January 31 2024 01:01 Argonauta wrote: This is the bit that is the most outrageous of all the region lock legislation. It was perfectly fine IMO, region lock did what it was supposed to. The problem was it was never relaxed | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7089 Posts
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
On February 01 2024 18:43 Harris1st wrote: Well, it is stated that ESL may grant an exception. Do we know of anyone who tried that? I mean if Maru was saying "I wanna live in the US for 3 month, can I play in NA tournaments?", I am pretty sure ESL would allow it You're forgetting the fact that Apollo literally hates koreans | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On February 01 2024 19:01 Durnuu wrote: You're forgetting the fact that Apollo literally hates koreans Is there something in this meme haha? Been so long I can’t recall how It started | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On February 01 2024 21:34 WombaT wrote: Is there something in this meme haha? Been so long I can’t recall how It started I think it started when Apollo said "the korean scene is healthy as fuck" in response to criticism that 2016 region lock is killing korean sc2 | ||
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