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Master's Coliseum/7Saturday, Jan 13 11:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) - Friday, Jan 19 11:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
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[WTL 2023] Master's Coliseum 7 - Swiss Round
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digmouse
China6330 Posts
Master's Coliseum/7Saturday, Jan 13 11:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) - Friday, Jan 19 11:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) Streams SCBoy WardiTV | SteadfastSC | RotterdaM | CranKy Ducklings Legendk | IntoTheiNu | CrankGroup | ||
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Philippe
354 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Maru - Clem Olivera - Dark As first round matches are absolute bangers | ||
Waxangel
United States33559 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1262 Posts
On January 12 2024 16:56 tigera6 wrote: Trigger PvT look very good, he was very close to beat Clem in WTL playoff, closer than MaxPax was in the earlier rounds. Btw, this is not "real" Swiss Stage but "ESL Swiss" similar to the Regional and Gamers8 group stage. This is "A Swiss-like system that is used in many Esports in that exact way except AoE 2 and everyone knows how it works except that one dude who wants to be petty about it"-Swiss | ||
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Sui
26 Posts
On January 13 2024 09:02 Balnazza wrote: This is "A Swiss-like system that is used in many Esports in that exact way except AoE 2 and everyone knows how it works except that one dude who wants to be petty about it"-Swiss I guess one of the main complaints about the "ESL Swiss" is its blackbox paring procedure. I read in liquipedia discord (cited explanation from ESL admin), that in each round the players with the same number of wins (eg. 8 players with 1-0 score) are not paired according to either their map score, or any explainable seeding order. They are paired using a ELO-like blackbox system, and the details are not publicly announced. I remember spending hours trying to predict ESL brackets, found it contradicts every pairing rule possible, and only to find out later that it's a blackbox after I dug through dozens of pages of chat records from liquipedia discord. So, no, everyone does NOT know how it works. And I really hope WTL does not copy ESL's implementation. | ||
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digmouse
China6330 Posts
On January 13 2024 15:29 Sui wrote: I guess one of the main complaints about the "ESL Swiss" is its blackbox paring procedure. I read in liquipedia discord (cited explanation from ESL admin), that in each round the players with the same number of wins (eg. 8 players with 1-0 score) are not paired according to either their map score, or any explainable seeding order. They are paired using a ELO-like blackbox system, and the details are not publicly announced. I remember spending hours trying to predict ESL brackets, found it contradicts every pairing rule possible, and only to find out later that it's a blackbox after I dug through dozens of pages of chat records from liquipedia discord. So, no, everyone does NOT know how it works. And I really hope WTL does not copy ESL's implementation. WTL's pairing is random draw from round 2 and on. | ||
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ZeroByte13
784 Posts
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digmouse
China6330 Posts
On January 13 2024 23:31 ZeroByte13 wrote: Random draw - you mean between players with the same Win/Lose stats, not literally random, right? Yeah obviously. Round 2 upper matches are drawn among the 8 first round winners for example. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18219 Posts
On January 14 2024 00:43 digmouse wrote: Yeah obviously. Round 2 upper matches are drawn among the 8 first round winners for example. It can't be pure random though, can it? If 2 players who played each other in round 1 end up at 1-1, they can't be matched again in round 3, can they? | ||
Poopi
France12909 Posts
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Ciaus237
South Africa287 Posts
It is such a great unit The most fun of all | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
Maru vs serral Byun vs reynor Etc etc | ||
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On January 14 2024 22:44 tigera6 wrote: Basically you cant counter the new Cyclone with Tanks, because of the cheaper and quicker Ravens build, so you have to build more Cyclone yourself to counter opponent Cyclones. But what Maru did in game 3 was surviving on Bunkers and Marines, and he has the edge when the Bio upgrades kick in and it went Maru way for the rest of the game. Yeah, this new cyclone meta in TvT is not pleasant to watch, and I'm sure that it's not that pleasant to play. It made the match up feel very volatile. | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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Philippe
354 Posts
On January 14 2024 23:13 buzz_bender wrote: Yeah, this new cyclone meta in TvT is not pleasant to watch, and I'm sure that it's not that pleasant to play. It made the match up feel very volatile. It's less technical but that's just another way to play in the end. Nothing that really screams bad or ban-worthy. Really can't see why some are doing an awful fuss about. | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 14 2024 23:25 Philippe wrote: It's less technical but that's just another way to play in the end. Nothing that really screams bad or ban-worthy. Really can't see why some are doing an awful fuss about. The Problem is that currently it Looks Like you either Play cyclones or start behind, it is Not healthy for one unit to supress other openers Like that imo. | ||
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ZeroByte13
784 Posts
On January 14 2024 23:19 darklycid wrote: Indeed.Maxpax rly lucking Out with His opponents so far. Serral got Reynor + Maru. Maru got Clem + Serral. Max got Firefly + SHIN. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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Vision_
874 Posts
On January 14 2024 22:13 Poopi wrote: TvT has become a bit stupid with the new cyclone wow When they implemented Cyclone, they said : " Rework of the Cyclone to make it into a more all around unit in all matchups" Terran units synergy is probably the more important comparing to zerg or protoss, it s idiot to add an unit which can fastly cover a lot of ground control while it s a Terran weakness. Also, someone in this forum created a unit which works out like the point defense drone, i m sorry to say that i would be more happy to see his unit that the actual cyclone. Time to understand their fail. An unit HAS NOT TO BE GOOD more all around, their advantages and disadvantages among other race units will define his function. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1913 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On January 16 2024 20:31 Tsubbi wrote: with this patch finally maru can win vs serral again as well Nobody saying about the patch when Clem beat Serral in Atlanta | ||
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HeroSandro
534 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
Gg Maru | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On January 16 2024 21:00 HeroSandro wrote: Serral ZvT seems to be a bit down. The new Cyclone eliminate most of his early Roach game, where he used to beat Maru and Clem several time with it, with or without Queen drop. Then the bane HP nerf hurt the LingBane army against Bio push, also tanks can now 1-shot more banes. Basically now Serral need to out-position the Terran army big time enough to snowball into a win, if its an even trade or even slightly better trade against Terran, he will eventually lose to the Ghost-Libs late game army. The only solution for this would be a transition into BLord-Corrutor-Infestor but that seems to be quite difficult as well because Terran is on even or better economy and can match it with Thor/Hellbat as well. | ||
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JJH777
United States4415 Posts
On January 16 2024 20:31 Tsubbi wrote: with this patch finally maru can win vs serral again as well He also got 3-0'd by DRG and lost to Scarlett on this same patch. His play has just been all over the place lately. Happy to see a win from him against Serral. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On January 16 2024 21:00 HeroSandro wrote: Serral ZvT seems to be a bit down. To be fair ZVT has been terran favoured for a while Zergs has to have to create a big advantage for themselves going into the late game in order to have a chance to win. Ghost literally shuts down the game for the Zerg | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On January 17 2024 00:39 TossHeroes wrote: To be fair ZVT has been terran favoured for a while Zergs has to have to create a big advantage for themselves going into the late game in order to have a chance to win. Ghost literally shuts down the game for the Zerg Source? Serral, Reynor, Dark and Solar all have their highest aligulac rating in ZvT and Solar won GSL on the back of his ZvT and Serral won ESL EU beating Clem twice. Honest question, I can't find a statistic that suggests TvZ is terran favored. | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 17 2024 02:21 Charoisaur wrote: Source? Serral, Reynor, Dark and Solar all have their highest aligulac rating in ZvT and Solar won GSL on the back of his ZvT and Serral won ESL EU beating Clem twice. Honest question, I can't find a statistic that suggests TvZ is terran favored. dont feed the troll. | ||
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jack_less
78 Posts
On January 17 2024 00:39 TossHeroes wrote: To be fair ZVT has been terran favoured for a while Zergs has to have to create a big advantage for themselves going into the late game in order to have a chance to win. Ghost literally shuts down the game for the Zerg Agree, Zerg was cut in many parts (early, mid, late). Partly in too many parts or too deep in the individual parts. | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4526 Posts
On January 16 2024 22:26 darklycid wrote: Maxpax drawing herO is really getting the path to the playoffs served on a silver plate. I have MaxPax favoured against everyone not named clem or serral, but you're right. It's quite the draw. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
On January 17 2024 09:08 FataLe wrote: I have MaxPax favoured against everyone not named clem or serral, but you're right. It's quite the draw. I think Cure is favored against MaxPax. I have Byun as slightly favored too. | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 17 2024 09:08 FataLe wrote: I have MaxPax favoured against everyone not named clem or serral, but you're right. It's quite the draw. That is a Bit extreme. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
On January 17 2024 18:52 Argonauta wrote: I really wanted MaxPax vs Maru Maru beating Clem, Serral and MaxPax back-to-back-to-back would have been epic. If he is in the shape to beat Serral 2-0, he might be able to beat his nemesis MaxPax I prefer him facing Dark though, because at least it won't be cross server | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4526 Posts
I don't think it is, it's a really good draw  | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
On January 17 2024 19:38 FataLe wrote: I don't think it is, it's a really good draw At least one Thing we agree on :D | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Topin
Peru10104 Posts
Maru vs Serral was pretty good. Firefly looked solid vs Bunny. I cant believe Shin lost g2 vs Maxi | ||
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Philippe
354 Posts
On January 18 2024 10:17 Topin wrote: Day 2: Maru vs Serral was pretty good. Firefly looked solid vs Bunny. I cant believe Shin lost g2 vs Maxi It went down to SHIN not respecting the possibility that an allin still had a chance to defeat him in that game state. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On January 17 2024 22:44 tigera6 wrote: Game 2 today is the most solid macro game I have seen from Maru recently, I was afraid he would yolo with Tank push trying to take Dark 4th base against Roach Ravager and lost everything. Instead he just slowly trading out Marine with drop while tech up to Ghost/Libs and win the lategame. Hopefully he can keep this up throughout this tournament. Yeah but he had an immense lead from that early game hatchery snipe. Dark roach/infestor defense is top notch. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On January 18 2024 18:35 Argonauta wrote: Yeah but he had an immense lead from that early game hatchery snipe. Dark roach/infestor defense is top notch. Yes, but I have seen him trying to break into the Zerg 4th/5th from similar advantage with just Tanks Marines, failing to do so and lost the game. Teching up to lategame was the more strategic and safer choice. My complain about Maru, as one of his fanboy, was him doing too risky stuff when there is a more stable option. For once he did the right thing and just leverage the advantage into a solid win. | ||
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Lydia1
3 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
edit: turns out it worked (tho more indirectly). | ||
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Philippe
354 Posts
On January 18 2024 22:26 darklycid wrote: After the first games i thought herO came prepared but wtf is this dt build. edit: turns out it worked (tho more indirectly). G1 : really shows the dangers of greed. Not the base 1 Gate FE, but the oracle mouvement. HerO intercepting it was a key part of it. | ||
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MrIronGolem27
United States240 Posts
On January 16 2024 22:26 darklycid wrote: Maxpax drawing herO is really getting the path to the playoffs served on a silver plate. This aged like milk | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4526 Posts
and my comment too. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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darklycid
3531 Posts
True, on paper i still think it was correct and the best draw considering maxpax pvp usually. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1399 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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bela.mervado
Hungary406 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7088 Posts
On January 22 2024 20:21 tigera6 wrote: Bad choice by Classic, why trying to 1-base Stalker bust and Phoenix wars against the guy who is building his career at defending/playing those builds. Classic did look outclassed by a mile. Solar did really well. Dunno why Clem in game 1 did not think: "what is the only way I can still lose this?" | ||
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Kreuger
Sweden819 Posts
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bela.mervado
Hungary406 Posts
Please accept my apology for not believing in you. Although I like your next opponent, he is doable. Good luck for the rest of the tournament! | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1399 Posts
On January 22 2024 20:21 tigera6 wrote: Bad choice by Classic, why trying to 1-base Stalker bust and Phoenix wars against the guy who is building his career at defending/playing those builds. Going for a Stalker bust on a map without a natural ramp wasn't the worst decision. If it was going to work somewhere then that's where it was going to work. The Phoenix game looked really bad for Classic though. He was a step behind from the very beginning, even though they were doing mirrored builds. I don't know how MaxPax managed to forge such a massive advantage, but he did! | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7088 Posts
On January 22 2024 21:56 Kreuger wrote: Only mirrors to start the playoffs It's to make sure a Protoss finds its way into the later stages Maru 3:0 Cure Serral 3:2 Solar Dark 3:2 Reynor MaxPax 3:1 herO The ZvZs are very coinflippy and could go either way IMO | ||
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Philippe
354 Posts
On January 22 2024 22:36 MJG wrote: Going for a Stalker bust on a map without a natural ramp wasn't the worst decision. If it was going to work somewhere then that's where it was going to work. The Phoenix game looked really bad for Classic though. He was a step behind from the very beginning, even though they were doing mirrored builds. I don't know how MaxPax managed to forge such a massive advantage, but he did! One common point between the two games : Classic lost either stalkers/phoenixes for free early, then it snowballs out of control to the point he was unable to recover. His micro also looked worse when MaxPax was able to preserve units even AT very low HP. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
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JJH777
United States4415 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
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