EPTOn December 09 2023 10:03 Philippe wrote:
It's not like NA players will take many slots anyway ?
It's not like NA players will take many slots anyway ?
Does that Change a Thing about what i Said?
IEM Katowice 2024 - Qualifiers - Page 3
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darklycid
3510 Posts
Does that Change a Thing about what i Said? | ||
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Philippe
351 Posts
On December 09 2023 10:05 darklycid wrote: Does that Change a Thing about what i Said? Not at all, it's more about a side response to JJH777 there. | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
On December 09 2023 10:02 darklycid wrote: So you want EU to have the least Qualifying spots instead of NA because Kr Players have a better Ping to NA?  Take.In this scenario the NA qualifier would just be a last chance global qualifier moreso than an actual NA one. If EU players are better than Koreans they would take those slots especially since for many EU players the typical alternating server rules actually gives them a ping advantage. | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1178 Posts
On December 09 2023 10:17 JJH777 wrote: It's also crazy to me that the Atlanta winner isn't a guaranteed Kato slot... Imagine if Classic or Gumiho somehow win Atlanta and aren't at Kato. It probably won't happen but if it does that'd be a travesty. In that case Serral would have gotten an invite from Summer aswell, which means another slot for the European Qualifier and then you would have complained even more why EU gets so many slots... It could also lead to a problem in which an already qualified player (which is quite likely) wins Winter and then you would need to fit in a LastChance-qualifier. There is somewhat of a "player break" in the first week of January, then there is Master Coliseum 7 and from there it is only two weeks until Katowice. So you can basically scratch anyone who needs a visa and make it an EU-only qualifier or just randomly award the last slot according to points or something | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
On December 09 2023 11:34 Balnazza wrote: In that case Serral would have gotten an invite from Summer aswell, which means another slot for the European Qualifier and then you would have complained even more why EU gets so many slots... It could also lead to a problem in which an already qualified player (which is quite likely) wins Winter and then you would need to fit in a LastChance-qualifier. There is somewhat of a "player break" in the first week of January, then there is Master Coliseum 7 and from there it is only two weeks until Katowice. So you can basically scratch anyone who needs a visa and make it an EU-only qualifier or just randomly award the last slot according to points or something The last slot could be points or highest placing player at Atlanta that is not already qualified. I just don't see why EU should have so many near guaranteed slots. Especially for Kato as that has historically been the one global event that actually allows near full KR participation. Make the qualifiers global on NA and if EU really deserves that many slots they will win them. Maybe I'm still underestimating the mid tier of EU and they win anyways but give them the chance to prove it. I just think Kato is most likely less interesting with Skillous/Spirit than Gumiho/Classic. We know Skillous and Spirit are in 90% likelihood not going to upset any top 5 players. Gumiho and Classic can and have beat anyone. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1178 Posts
If Gumiho and Classic bomb out of three qualifiers and also not win atleast one of three GSLs...maybe they just don't deserve to be in Katowice? Katowice was the gloal event with "near full KR participation" because koreans used to be so much above the rest that they could qualify in all qualifiers and make it a korean-only event. Now they are apparently not good enough to do that anymore and you suddenly want to change the setup? Which btw was the same "back in the day", America always had the lowest amount of seeds and Asia/EU had equal amounts. | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
On December 09 2023 13:30 Balnazza wrote: So Classic can upset a Top 5 player at Kato, but he can't win three Bo5s against Europeans with a slight ping disadvantage? Maybe accomplish Step 1 before you dream about Step 2? If Gumiho and Classic bomb out of three qualifiers and also not win atleast one of three GSLs...maybe they just don't deserve to be in Katowice? Katowice was the gloal event with "near full KR participation" because koreans used to be so much above the rest that they could qualify in all qualifiers and make it a korean-only event. Now they are apparently not good enough to do that anymore and you suddenly want to change the setup? Which btw was the same "back in the day", America always had the lowest amount of seeds and Asia/EU had equal amounts. Slight ping disadvantage? It's 30-50 ping vs 250 ping plus the middle of the night. Your second paragraph is just straight up false. 2018-2020 Kato was: 5 KR server qualifier slots, 3 NA server qualifier spots, 3 EU qualifier server spots, Blizzcon champion invite, and 12 open bracket spots. Nothing like what you're describing. 2021 was 10 KR slots, 5 EU slots, 4 slots for other regions, 1 combined standing spot, and 4 open bracket spots. It wasn't until 2022 that they started giving EU almost equal slots to KR but even then it wasn't as bad due to the open bracket awarding 4 slots. They basically removed the open bracket (an understandable cost cutting measure) but instead of awarding those slots to some type of global qualifier they put 3/4 of them in the EU qualifier and 1 to KR/CN. And calling classic upsetting a top 5 player a dream when he beat Serral and Reynor back to back at a 400k event 3 months ago is just silly. | ||
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Philippe
351 Posts
*always the same sack of potatoes* | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
As for the result, Classic kinda shot himself in the foot a couple of times against Spirit, but hes still looking very good, he should be able to qualify through AM server, but the Open bracket will be scary AF. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1178 Posts
On December 09 2023 14:06 JJH777 wrote: Slight ping disadvantage? It's 30-50 ping vs 250 ping plus the middle of the night. Your second paragraph is just straight up false. 2018-2020 Kato was: 5 KR server qualifier slots, 3 NA server qualifier spots, 3 EU qualifier server spots, Blizzcon champion invite, and 12 open bracket spots. Nothing like what you're describing. 2021 was 10 KR slots, 5 EU slots, 4 slots for other regions, 1 combined standing spot, and 4 open bracket spots. It wasn't until 2022 that they started giving EU almost equal slots to KR but even then it wasn't as bad due to the open bracket awarding 4 slots. They basically removed the open bracket (an understandable cost cutting measure) but instead of awarding those slots to some type of global qualifier they put 3/4 of them in the EU qualifier and 1 to KR/CN. And calling classic upsetting a top 5 player a dream when he beat Serral and Reynor back to back at a 400k event 3 months ago is just silly. I'm no expert on ping, so I will just take your word for it. That is the crux with online play...but if that is a problem for you, don't try to qualify through a different server qualifier I guess. Also...aren't servers alternating between the two? Wouldn't the score reflect that aswell if this is the only reason he lost? I randomly picked Katowice 2015 for my argument, in which it was indeed an equal split. For 2018-20 you are right, though that kind of gets counter-balanced with the "open bracket" being naturally more EU-friendly (not that it helped...). 2021 was probably still somewhat adapted from WCS which had an equal split between Korea and the rest of the world. But it was still okay-ish. Such a korea-heavy split today however would be utterly ridiculous by now. Okay, "dream" might have been a wrong choice of word - though to be fair, Gamers8 was three month ago. Classic has been mostly mediocre since then. But honestly: How is that a measurement that someone has to be in the tournament (and lets be real: That is your entire point. All top koreans *have* to be present and the system needs to be in a way that they can and will). Yes, maybe Classic can upset one of the big dogs. Or maybe he will be runover 3-0 by Serral like in ESL Summer. Instead of thinking about that, why not take the easy metric? Classic (and Gumiho) have three chances to qualify for the event. If they don't get through while Spirit does it in one attempt...maybe that's just life? On December 09 2023 14:30 tigera6 wrote: One of my small issue with this IEM qualifier system is how EU/NA/Asia got extra slots due to repeated champs, but KR got no extra slot for Maru winning GSL S1 and S2, which should go to Asia/KR. I understand that the ESL system only have 2 seasons and GSL have 3 season, but what have they done if GSL got 3 champs instead? Taking a qualifying slot away from the KR/Asia region? And there is the whole thing about the EPT points are pretty much worthless until now, and we still have no clue how they would impact the Global Final participation next year. As for the result, Classic kinda shot himself in the foot a couple of times against Spirit, but hes still looking very good, he should be able to qualify through AM server, but the Open bracket will be scary AF. It isn't written out, but considering that Asia/Korea has one slot more than EU naturally I just assume that is the third GSL-Slot. I agree however that the points-situations is really unnerving... | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Korea as a region lost so much depth compared to Europa and China, it s honestly sad to watch. Just look at wtl where a squat of houshold names from the past (Afreeca Freecs) embaresses themselves on a weekly basis | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1178 Posts
Maybe the qualifiers should just be region locked, then we wouldn't have these troubles... | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
No EU qualified via KR qualifiers No KR qualified via EU qualifiers. So what’s the issue here? Which remaining KR deserve to be in Kato? Maybe classic or gumiho? They have no one to blame except themselves for choking in the KR qualifiers | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1178 Posts
Maybe the mid-tier koreans who may or may not miss out this event should just play better instead of making it more complicated for Europeans? | ||
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