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digmouse
China6329 Posts
The other post: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/616985-10000-cao-shuai-cup-korea-vs-world So team owner of DKZ stormed into SCboy's office and suggested a $10,000 team match of these players: Team Korea:  Maru  Dark  herO Cure SolarTeam World: Oliveira Serral Reynor Clem MaxPaxAnd it happened. All kill format, $10,000, winner takes all, sounds good? Cool. Begins Thursday, Oct 05 12:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) You can probably find the match on the usual WTL Twitch channels. | ||
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WardiTV
573 Posts
Will be live wtih it tomorrow! | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
On October 04 2023 23:26 WardiTV wrote: All-kill format? It sounded different in other post Will be live wtih it tomorrow! KOF format = all kill, it's how the Chinese community call that format, since it's the same as the King of Fighters games (3v3 team fighter, character that wins stays until knocked out). | ||
Poopi
France12883 Posts
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
but dang why is it so sudden? don't they want to give at least 1-2 weeks for people to know so they can watch? | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Philippe
351 Posts
On October 05 2023 12:35 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: all kill? hell yeah!! also great picks, seems the best / most recently accomplished players!! but dang why is it so sudden? don't they want to give at least 1-2 weeks for people to know so they can watch? Probably wouldn't have held the same interest for the DKZ owners, if the line about the event being organized at the 11th hour is more or less true. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
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RePlantXG
China2 Posts
On October 05 2023 12:35 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: all kill? hell yeah!! also great picks, seems the best / most recently accomplished players!! but dang why is it so sudden? don't they want to give at least 1-2 weeks for people to know so they can watch? The Sep.29 is the Mid-Autumn day and the Oct.1 is the chinese national day，they have a 8 days holiday from Sep.29 to Oct.6 . Two days ago，the sponsor ，who is also a friend of Xiaose ，came to scboy’s office and told them he is too boring during the holiday，so he wants to watch another game besides WTL. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
So, does anybody has Bill Gates hot line, call him saying AoE4 sucks and please put together another 500k prize pool tournament in December for the Christmas holiday? | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:33 Poopi wrote: No idea what BGH is, but apparently KR lost and had to show hand first. Sending Cure is smart, but World directly sent the player who could all-kill KR on the previous patch. Will he do it on the new patch as well? BGH = BigGameHunter. The probably most played custom map for 4v4 / FFA since vanilla Starcraft? EDIT: Even has its own wiki lol https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Big_Game_Hunters Kind of anticlimactic if Serral allkills now :/ | ||
Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:36 Harris1st wrote: BGH = BigGameHunter. The probably most played custom map for 4v4 / FFA since vanilla Starcraft? EDIT: Even has its own wiki lol https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Big_Game_Hunters Kind of anticlimactic if Serral allkills now :/ Oh thought it was an arcade map. Wow, seems like timing pushes have a chance to work on this new patch, seems good so far even though they will probably be figured out in a few weeks gg Cure! | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:40 Harris1st wrote: lol banelings suck and Serral is dead Yea man they suck, zerg cant even hold a full terran army with an upgrade lead while a substantial part of the zerg army is counterattacking  | ||
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Glorfindelio
209 Posts
Yes, he split his army but come on, that would have been obliterated on the last patch. Wasn't even that committed of a timing push. | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:42 darklycid wrote: Yea man they suck, zerg cant even hold a full terran army with an upgrade lead while a substantial part of the zerg army is counterattacking I mean at this point people are so accustomed to zerg being able to hold everything and Serral beating the best terrans in the world 12-1 or so that him losing a single map to a top 2 terran makes the new patch instantly super T favored | ||
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Glorfindelio
209 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:44 Poopi wrote: I mean at this point people are so accustomed to zerg being able to hold everything and Serral beating the best terrans in the world 12-1 or so that him losing a single map to a top 2 terran makes the new patch instantly super T favored Laddering as Zerg below GM is just a blast right now. | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:43 Glorfindelio wrote: Haha. Ling Bane loses at equal supply loses against no tanks or mines on creep. Yes, he split his army but come on, that would have been obliterated on the last patch. Wasn't even that committed of a timing push. what? it was 8 rack3 base and he didnt even try to defend the counter it was a hard commit and zerg now just cant counter with like 30 supply while holding it. | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Glorfindelio
209 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:47 darklycid wrote: what? it was 8 rack3 base and he didnt even try to defend the counter it was a hard commit and zerg now just cant counter with like 30 supply while holding it. I mean, it wasn't like he killed Cure on the other side of the map. Even if he trades that army, he barely had tech, was behind an upgrade, and was close to equal on workers. Not an awful position. | ||
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Glorfindelio
209 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:53 darklycid wrote: Oh look banes can still work. The fact this game is as close as it is... | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:55 Glorfindelio wrote: I mean, it wasn't like he killed Cure on the other side of the map. Even if he trades that army, he barely had tech, was behind an upgrade, and was close to equal on workers. Not an awful position. he killed 22 workers, if he held that push at his 4th he would have been very far ahead and basically winning but you cannot just counter with so much supply now vs a full terran army. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:56 Glorfindelio wrote: The fact this game is as close as it is... also this game isnt really close after that one big cleanup cure just doesnt leave and does a all or nothing attack now. | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
TvT might be either funnier or more annoying though, with interference matrix needing to be researched | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On October 05 2023 22:01 Poopi wrote: Games look good so far, and cyclone doesn't seem broken. TvT might be either funnier or more annoying though, with interference matrix needing to be researched give it time cyclone still has time to become broken in some stupid builds :D | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 05 2023 22:04 darklycid wrote: give it time cyclone still has time to become broken in some stupid builds :D Yeah its potential seems to lie more in weird cheeses than in straight up macro games as a "core unit" like they intended initially | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On October 05 2023 22:22 darklycid wrote: Ya idk looks like zerg still works as usual but it looks to be more close at times rn. Need a bigger sample size than just the best player in the world making it work to make that call IMO | ||
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 05 2023 22:24 Harris1st wrote: Need a bigger sample size than just the best player in the world making it work to make that call IMO Maru hasn't played yet | ||
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Glorfindelio
209 Posts
On October 05 2023 22:22 Durnuu wrote: Geez can someone buff banelings already, they look so weak You do realize that ZvT (which was never an issue below the top 10 players, and even then it's debatable) is infinitely harder for Zergs on the ladder now, right? The baneling nerfs, Cyclone buffs--all of that makes getting into the mid-game in a good position economically with good creep exponentially harder. Granted, ghosts were nerfed, but it's not like you're spamming Serral v Maru endgames against normal humans. So sure, if you think that the greatest, or top 3 greatest players of all-time at a historic level of dominance struggling to close out games where he's been in clear positions of strength doesn't translate to something else for mere mortals, whatever. Good patch for you. | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
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Infested.rine
33 Posts
On October 05 2023 22:32 Glorfindelio wrote: You do realize that ZvT (which was never an issue below the top 10 players, and even then it's debatable) is infinitely harder for Zergs on the ladder now, right? The baneling nerfs, Cyclone buffs--all of that makes getting into the mid-game in a good position economically with good creep exponentially harder. Granted, ghosts were nerfed, but it's not like you're spamming Serral v Maru endgames against normal humans. So sure, if you think that the greatest, or top 3 greatest players of all-time at a historic level of dominance struggling to close out games where he's been in clear positions of strength doesn't translate to something else for mere mortals, whatever. Good patch for you. Chill pill dude, pretty sure he's joking | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Infested.rine
33 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
I think team KR is favored now especially without Reynor, but MaxPax seems to have Maru number so there is hope. Team world should send Clem asap though | ||
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
On October 06 2023 00:38 Schelim wrote: Well idk, not like Astrea is super likely to beat any of them I feel like a Astrea could upset Solar and Hero if anyone. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 06 2023 00:57 BisuDagger wrote: I feel like a Astrea could upset Solar and Hero if anyone. Theoretically yes, but herO 3-0d him very recently and it was as "not close" as the scoreline suggests https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/616910-esl-open-195-hero-maxpax-clem-win They should send Clem imho, and keep MaxPax until team KR sends Maru | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
On October 06 2023 01:17 tigera6 wrote: Sending out your best player when there is no revival rule is just not a very good tactic. Or maybe KR team force the World team hand by sending out Cure out first. Oliveira would have been the best first pick for team World imo, he's done decently against Cure recently and also has a fighting chance of beating Solar/herO. Of course KR was going to snipe Serral with Solar or Dark. | ||
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bulldozer06701
124 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Wouldn t Dark make way more sense for Team KR vs MaxPax? | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
On October 09 2023 22:37 tigera6 wrote: Maru probably wants to go to bed early, either he clean up the World Team, or hes done for the night. this sounds plausible lol, I wouldn't think sending Maru vs MaxPax is the best idea | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On October 09 2023 22:32 dbRic1203 wrote: Huh? Wouldn t Dark make way more sense for Team KR vs MaxPax? Why Dark though? IMO herO PvP madness would have been better vs MaxPax? | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 09 2023 22:41 Harris1st wrote: Why Dark though? IMO herO PvP madness would have been better vs MaxPax? herO lost 0-2 to Harstem yesterday, he has a better shot vs Clem imo. Dark is the best bet versus MaxPax as he has beaten the protoss recently iirc, whereas Maru lost several series to MaxPax edit: lmao new cyclones also look bad in TvP, why would you try them Maru? | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On October 09 2023 22:52 Poopi wrote: herO lost 0-2 to Harstem yesterday, he has a better shot vs Clem imo. Dark is the best bet versus MaxPax as he has beaten the protoss recently iirc, whereas Maru lost several series to MaxPax edit: lmao new cyclones also look bad in TvP, why would you try them Maru? I suggest watching more than just maru games when he fucks up and you would know that cyclones aint looking too bad in tvp so far. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On October 09 2023 23:02 Die4Ever wrote: yea sorry but Maru was a horrible choice here lol should've saved him for later Yeah Maru would be favoured vs both Clem and Olivera, while he has a hard time vs Max | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 09 2023 23:02 darklycid wrote: I suggest watching more than just maru games when he fucks up and you would know that cyclones aint looking too bad in tvp so far. It’s not just about watching Maru, even playing the cyclones in game is sufficient to realize they are not very good Their range is low, they are fragile and super slow while taking a lot of time to build | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On October 09 2023 23:06 Poopi wrote: It’s not just about watching Maru, even playing the cyclones in game is sufficient to realize they are not very good Their range is low, they are fragile and super slow while taking a lot of time to build they also can be reactored and are cheaper and can quite easily snowball. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On October 09 2023 23:04 dbRic1203 wrote: Yeah Maru would be favoured vs both Clem and Olivera, while he has a hard time vs Max "Hard time" is maybe even too generous a term so far. | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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Fubika24
37 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
Beating Clem and/or Oliveira would be a nice bonus, but herO should be favored against the terrans in case Dark can't beat them | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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Philippe
351 Posts
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bulldozer06701
124 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 10 2023 20:33 BisuDagger wrote: Can someone please list all the results so far? Serral 3-2 CureSerral 2-3 SolarSolar 3-0 AstreaSolar 2-3 MaxPaxMaxPax 3-0 MaruMaxPax 2-3 DarkFor detailed results  World Team League/2023/Winter/Show Matches/1Team World: Serral - outAstrea - outMaxPax - outClem - Did not play yetOliveira - Did not play yet Team Korea: Cure - outSolar - outMaru - outDark - current player for team KRherO - did not play yet | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Now I would consider them slightly favoured against the remaining Terrans. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
On October 10 2023 20:36 Poopi wrote: Serral 3-2 CureSerral 2-3 SolarSolar 3-0 AstreaSolar 2-3 MaxPaxMaxPax 3-0 MaruMaxPax 2-3 DarkFor detailed results World Team League/2023/Winter/Show Matches/1Team World: Serral - outAstrea - outMaxPax - outClem - Did not play yetOliveira - Did not play yet Team Korea: Cure - outSolar - outMaru - outDark - current player for team KRherO - did not play yetThanks! This is going to be neck and neck! | ||
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Philippe
351 Posts
For me it all comes down to defensive discipline. In that aspect, trusting the latter more than the former. | ||
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Christof
8 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On October 11 2023 00:36 Christof wrote: I still dont get why out of all people they bloody used astrea... i mean seriously Honestly he was most likely going to get crushed no matter when they would use him | ||
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Christof
8 Posts
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Philippe
351 Posts
On October 11 2023 00:47 Christof wrote: Yea sorry i ment why pick astrea over like anyone else tbh.... waste of a spot Probably the first name who was available to replace Reynor on the fly. Plus the added name value | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On October 11 2023 00:47 Christof wrote: Yea sorry i ment why pick astrea over like anyone else tbh.... waste of a spot Yea sorry i ment why pick maru over like anyone else tbh.... waste of a spot | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 11 2023 00:47 Christof wrote: Yea sorry i ment why pick astrea over like anyone else tbh.... waste of a spot I mean since Reynor was not available there weren’t many foreigners better than Astrea to choose from. HeroMarine is better offline but he doesn’t like cross server so his results are usually quite poor there. ShoWTimE is not necessarily better than Astrea these days. Other than these two I see no obvious pick | ||
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Philippe
351 Posts
On October 11 2023 01:13 Durnuu wrote: Yea sorry i ment why pick maru over like anyone else tbh.... waste of a spot Bluntly put, a total Map score of 1-7 inside 24 hours is pretty bad look for somebody of Maru's calibre. And while I was hoping it would not happen, recent match history looked unfavourable too. | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
On October 11 2023 00:47 Christof wrote: Yea sorry i ment why pick astrea over like anyone else tbh.... waste of a spot Who's a non Korean that's better than Astrea who's not already in this? Besides Reynor obviously since he forfeited. Maybe showtime and heromarine by a little? Astrea is definitely a top 8 non Korean at this point. | ||
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Philippe
351 Posts
On October 11 2023 04:45 JJH777 wrote: Who's a non Korean that's better than Astrea who's not already in this? Besides Reynor obviously since he forfeited. Maybe showtime and heromarine by a little? Astrea is definitely a top 8 non Korean at this point. Entertainment value of Astrea ? Top 4 at least, if not the best. Strictly by maps played or lost (not considering the tier of the tournaments played), he's only the 12th non-Korean with either Skillous in front of him or even Strange not that far behind. If he performs well in Code S, I might revise my opinion. Until then, I'll keep it at that. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
1 Serral 2 Clem 3 MaxPax 4 Reynor 5 Heromarine 6 Oliveira 7 Showtime 8 Lambo 9 Elazer 10 Spirit 11 Skillous 12 Astrea There would have been plenty of options, but I would gues the organisers were also looking at representation of races and regions | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
World Team League/2023/Winter/Show Matches/1 | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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Philippe
351 Posts
On October 11 2023 19:57 Harris1st wrote: I would rate Showtime above Astrea but Astra is still a solid choice overall and in the short amount of time. Please stop hating on this and just enjoy Prioritizing best expected level above ensuring regional representing, I do not see what is wrong there. If anything, the prize "split" is the bigger problem. If the losers had a share of it, then it would be less of a factor. Winner takes all ? Stack the deck. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On October 12 2023 14:02 Philippe wrote: Prioritizing best expected level above ensuring regional representing, I do not see what is wrong there. If anything, the prize "split" is the bigger problem. If the losers had a share of it, then it would be less of a factor. Winner takes all ? Stack the deck. I don't think regional representation was a thing. After all, Astrea filled in for Reynor, so NA was without representation from the start. I just think they probably asked 2-3 people on short notice after Reynor couldn't participate and Astrea was the first top pro that said "yes let's do it" | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 12 2023 17:59 Harris1st wrote: I don't think regional representation was a thing. After all, Astrea filled in for Reynor, so NA was without representation from the start. I just think they probably asked 2-3 people on short notice after Reynor couldn't participate and Astrea was the first top pro that said "yes let's do it" Plus Astrea is in Korea afaik (he has qualified for code S) so he can play without ping which is a huge advantage. It's not like there was another foreign player who had a good shot at beating a player from team KR cross server Even offline, ShoWTimE and HeroMarine (who are the only two players with a real gap in terms of aligulac rating compared to Astrea, Spirit, Elazer, Lambo are closer within Astrea range) are not favored in bo5 vs players from team KR. | ||
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angry_maia
314 Posts
On October 11 2023 00:43 dbRic1203 wrote: Honestly he was most likely going to get crushed no matter when they would use him But he'd have by far the best possible chance against herO. PvP is volatile enough that any top 10 protoss has at least a 25% chance against any other. Imo they should have put him there. | ||
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Fubika24
37 Posts
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fealx
Germany376 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
The full Bo5 format in 5v5 team just dragged on too long. | ||
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17991 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
On October 16 2023 21:33 tigera6 wrote: Yeah, the organization sucks a bit, they should let each player has 3-5 lives, and having the life taken our by losing a Bo1, and they can rotate players in and out as they like as long as they can be alive. The full Bo5 format in 5v5 team just dragged on too long. Yeah i think it'd be cooler if each player had 3 lives like Smash Bros crew battles. It's a bit extreme to have Bo5s if 1 player is better than the rest, you could just all lose to them. | ||
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Philippe
351 Posts
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davidbazesz
1 Post
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Fubika24
37 Posts
On October 21 2023 00:53 davidbazesz wrote: No idea what BGH is, but apparently KR lost and had to show hand first. Sending Cure is smart, but World directly sent the player who could all-kill KR on the previous patch. Will he do it on the new patch as well? They had a 4v4 game on the big game hunters map, it's a funny huge map with like 10 gold patches every base etc. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On October 23 2023 21:38 tigera6 wrote: If Dark beat Clem, then him and Solar carried the KR team to victory and should split the prize only between them. Game 5 decides everything. | ||
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
What a game from Dark in Game 5 | ||
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Gescom
Canada3397 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
Ultimately, the best zergs prevailed. Reynor not being able to play (but maybe he would have been able to play today...) hurt team world a lot. Zerg won 5 non mirror matches, protoss won 2, terran 0. | ||
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yubo56
688 Posts
Game 5 was so wack, Clem went 3 CC off one marine into a completely disguised mass cyclone push, but I guess that basically any amount of lings kills that push? It does seem like mass cyclone doesn't do as well vs most mixtures of roach ling queen as we thought before the patch hit. Though I wonder if Clem waited for like 6 hellions and blue flame, whether the game would have been fixed Then Dark had that crazy cool BL + nydus siege, but he miscontrolled his queens which walked halfway around off creep (I think) so he lost the sky battle to the vikings and lost 5 broods as a result But Clem just had no win condition after the cyclone push failed. Radhusset seems pretty hard to play as Mech since you don't have map control to split the map effectively, and with so many bases along the center of the map, it's pretty bad if you fail to split the map evenly. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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bulldozer06701
124 Posts
On October 23 2023 22:51 yubo56 wrote: Game 5 was so wack, Clem went 3 CC off one marine into a completely disguised mass cyclone push, but I guess that basically any amount of lings kills that push? It does seem like mass cyclone doesn't do as well vs most mixtures of roach ling queen as we thought before the patch hit. Though I wonder if Clem waited for like 6 hellions and blue flame, whether the game would have been fixed That ambush Clem did with the Cyclones was cool, but otherwise these units are trash. They are indeed easily countered by a bunch of lings. | ||
JohnMatrix
France1357 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
On October 25 2023 03:37 JohnMatrix wrote: Hi, i'm looking for the liquipedia page, i don't find it. It’s linked in the OP: World Team League/2023/Winter/Show Matches/1 | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
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