EPTSo the score is rather deceiving and the series played more like a 4-1.
[GSL 2022] Code S - Grand Finals - Page 11
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RKC
2848 Posts
So the score is rather deceiving and the series played more like a 4-1. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25333 Posts
Hopefully Creator can keep up this form and doesn’t drop back down, and grats to Rogue obviously | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
Still, most of the games were more entertaining than the previous queen walk / stargate meta of PvZ | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
On May 05 2022 21:18 Bevan wrote: It looked to me like Creator scuffed his micro there, and had zealots selected when he clicked to load into the prism instead of an immortal - he loaded up 3 zealots that he needed on the frontline, then looked surprised/frustrated a couple of seconds later when he realized his immortals died. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the impression I had watching it live. Oh shoot, you're probably right. I do remember noticing a zealot in it and wondering why he didn't pick up the Immortal instead. But yeah hmm now I think of it, someone pointed out Rogue had a gold, so maybe it wouldn't have been enough. It'd have needed really good micro. I just wish we could have seen a G7 haha. We were so close... g1, g3, g6 all could have been Creator wins if a couple tiny things were done better. (Hatch killed in g1 or spot the nydus, immortal micro not fudged up g3, not losing 3 voids g6 or losing ~15 probes when the mutas hit his nat after he scouted the mutas already) | ||
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aringadingding
476 Posts
He made this tournament interesting! | ||
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
Creator didn't look hopelessly outmatched, just a little bit worse and not as clutch on a big stage (in game 1 especially.) If he stays in his current forms he could make more deep runs. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On May 06 2022 03:04 dysenterymd wrote: By GSL final standards I would say that that was slightly above average. By Rogue PvZ final standards the quality was way above average. Creator didn't look hopelessly outmatched, just a little bit worse and not as clutch on a big stage (in game 1 especially.) If he stays in his current forms he could make more deep runs. This is pretty much where I was. Creator had a few minor mistakes here and there that cost him but it was still a competitive series, yea if Creator stays in this kind of form he's going to be a contender pretty much wherever he goes. | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
And of course, grats to Rogue for being crazy good as usual. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
Pls don't lose hope, you got so close! | ||
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Sprog
New Zealand83 Posts
On May 06 2022 05:42 Niravroh wrote: I was cheering for Rogue, but boy was it hard to watch Creator's face during that last game... Pls don't lose hope, you got so close! Very hard watch, you gotta feel for people in this position in sport in general. The hundreds and hundreds of hours that go into it, only to come up short. Creator has certainly earnt A LOT of fans. | ||
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Topin
Peru10078 Posts
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25333 Posts
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Bacillus
Finland1931 Posts
In game 6, why did Creator recall the phoenixes when Rogue counterattacked? Rogue mostly had lings and maybe 2 roaches left in Creator's base and they probably could be cleared up soonish by the warp ins. Meanwhile the phoenixes had a momentarily free reign and could've cleared out some queens or maybe even just gone overlord hunting, whatever was necessary to keep the pressure on Rogue's side. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
On May 06 2022 20:50 Bacillus wrote: I'm totally out of touch with the finer nuances of SC2 these days, so this might be a bit silly question, but... In game 6, why did Creator recall the phoenixes when Rogue counterattacked? Rogue mostly had lings and maybe 2 roaches left in Creator's base and they probably could be cleared up soonish by the warp ins. Meanwhile the phoenixes had a momentarily free reign and could've cleared out some queens or maybe even just gone overlord hunting, whatever was necessary to keep the pressure on Rogue's side. Yes I'm wondering this too. I can't help but think that the emotions did get to Creator (I mean can he really play well/focused when he's seemingly crying after all?) When looking at the game, it really didn't look Rogue's lead was that much. Yes, Creator did have trouble getting a 4th, but he eventually got one up, and just couldn't hold it. Now, what could he have done to hold it? When his 15 Phoenixes were on Rogue's side, they were sniping Corruptors, this is good, and only 2-3 alive at a time. He flew to one of Rogue's bases and killed like ~2 drones? With 15 Phoenix? He should be lifting 5 drones at a time, and 1 shotting 5 drones at a time with those 10 other Phoenix! Instead he used "two shots" just to kill like 2 drones. So he could have killed near 10 drones (accounting for overshooting) in the time it took to do those "2 shots". Then he flew to Rogue's natural, again he could have picked up like 5 drones, Spores can't target down Phoenix too easily. Then instead of recalling, he could have flew to the other bases, either 2 shotted Overlords and supply block Rogue or at least force him to spend a couple minutes rebuilding ~15 drones and ~5 OLs... Or imagine if he found the base at the far left with 0 spores and where the Queens can't walk easily between the natural and that base? He could have picked up another 10 drones there no contest. Of course, this is assuming perfect micro and decision making, he didn't have vision like us... but realistically I think he could have killed like 15 more drones at least (or like 10 drones and 5 OLs), or more if he stayed micro'ing hard and kept picking off corruptors and keeping it down to like ~2-3. And it would have been easier to keep the Corruptor count low if he was picking off drones and forcing Rogue to remake them, or cut drones and focus only on Corruptors. And then it would have been a game of 50 probes vs 60 drones, instead of 50 vs 75. He could have chrono boosted his Nexus too... I want to be told I'm wrong and Rogue could have micro'd somehow to not lose that many drones (he did do a pretty good job driving Creator away when the phoenix returned after being recalled), but... Perhaps he thought he killed a few drones and just went to recall as a habit to keep the half hurt phoenix alive, and might have been afraid corruptors might have been coming or something... or just he misjudged needing the phoenix at home... Another thing I wish is that Creator actually fought over his ground army when he was pushing, his air units didn't seem to be inside the guardian shield. Also correct me if wrong but maybe it would have been better for Creator to target down the corruptors with the voids, or even run the voids back so the phoenix can tank and kill more? Hard to say I don't play Protoss lol and I know these are nitpicks... Just really too bad he was pretty all-in at that point and had to cancel his 4th earlier... if only he could have not lost that 4th to like 5 Roaches lol. He just needed like 1 void over there while defending the queen drop. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1875 Posts
On May 06 2022 22:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Yes I'm wondering this too. I can't help but think that the emotions did get to Creator (I mean can he really play well/focused when he's seemingly crying after all?) When looking at the game, it really didn't look Rogue's lead was that much. Yes, Creator did have trouble getting a 4th, but he eventually got one up, and just couldn't hold it. Now, what could he have done to hold it? When his 15 Phoenixes were on Rogue's side, they were sniping Corruptors, this is good, and only 2-3 alive at a time. He flew to one of Rogue's bases and killed like ~2 drones? With 15 Phoenix? He should be lifting 5 drones at a time, and 1 shotting 5 drones at a time with those 10 other Phoenix! Instead he used "two shots" just to kill like 2 drones. So he could have killed near 10 drones (accounting for overshooting) in the time it took to do those "2 shots". Then he flew to Rogue's natural, again he could have picked up like 5 drones, Spores can't target down Phoenix too easily. Then instead of recalling, he could have flew to the other bases, either 2 shotted Overlords and supply block Rogue or at least force him to spend a couple minutes rebuilding ~15 drones and ~5 OLs... Or imagine if he found the base at the far left with 0 spores and where the Queens can't walk easily between the natural and that base? He could have picked up another 10 drones there no contest. Of course, this is assuming perfect micro and decision making, he didn't have vision like us... but realistically I think he could have killed like 15 more drones at least (or like 10 drones and 5 OLs), or more if he stayed micro'ing hard and kept picking off corruptors and keeping it down to like ~2-3. And it would have been easier to keep the Corruptor count low if he was picking off drones and forcing Rogue to remake them, or cut drones and focus only on Corruptors. And then it would have been a game of 50 probes vs 60 drones, instead of 50 vs 75. He could have chrono boosted his Nexus too... I want to be told I'm wrong and Rogue could have micro'd somehow to not lose that many drones (he did do a pretty good job driving Creator away when the phoenix returned after being recalled), but... Perhaps he thought he killed a few drones and just went to recall as a habit to keep the half hurt phoenix alive, and might have been afraid corruptors might have been coming or something... or just he misjudged needing the phoenix at home... Another thing I wish is that Creator actually fought over his ground army when he was pushing, his air units didn't seem to be inside the guardian shield. Also correct me if wrong but maybe it would have been better for Creator to target down the corruptors with the voids, or even run the voids back so the phoenix can tank and kill more? Hard to say I don't play Protoss lol and I know these are nitpicks... Just really too bad he was pretty all-in at that point and had to cancel his 4th earlier... if only he could have not lost that 4th to like 5 Roaches lol. He just needed like 1 void over there while defending the queen drop. The game was already over at that point. Creator's economy was garbage and he didn't have enough gates to produce a ground army to supplement his phoenixes. The longer he stayed on Rogue's side of the map the more phoenixes he would have lost, but it would not have really mattered either way since he didn't really have a means of getting back into the game. | ||
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Whiztard
United States227 Posts
On May 07 2022 05:18 Mizenhauer wrote: The game was already over at that point. Creator's economy was garbage and he didn't have enough gates to produce a ground army to supplement his phoenixes. The longer he stayed on Rogue's side of the map the more phoenixes he would have lost, but it would not have really mattered either way since he didn't really have a means of getting back into the game. I do think we have seen progamers finesse themselves back from being behind like this. I think Creator could have tried harder to get drone damage in with the phoenixes. Try thinking back to the times when Artosis/Tasteless have called a game being over, and then some things end up turning around and they say "guess things have stabilized somehow". Some parts of it comes down to buying an extra minute. I still do agree that Creator would likely have still lost since Rogue may not give Creator that extra minute; but I was a bit surprised that Creator did that given the information he knew. | ||
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Poopi
France12883 Posts
This 4th base loss forced him to all-in whereas an earlier fourth base might have allowed him to survive | ||
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