EPT[IEM] Katowice 2022 - Knockout Stage - Day 1 - Page 3
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egrimm
Poland1201 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16124 Posts
On February 26 2022 20:58 Zambrah wrote: Are you insinuating Trap is a bad player or something? Compared to players like Dark, Serral and Maru? Yea I am. He falls apart in series, he's a victim of only being effective as long as his build orders aren't figured out yet. Compare him to Dark. Dark doesn't care he just does whatever and he wins. He isn't a solid champion. He's the best that Protoss has, but he's not a solid champion, he doesn't have the nerves of steel, ability to make something out of nothing and all of the other intangibles that makes the consistent champs consistent. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16081 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:03 Vindicare605 wrote: Compared to players like Dark, Serral and Maru? Yea I am. He falls apart in series, he's a victim of only being effective as long as his build orders aren't figured out yet. Compare him to Dark. Dark doesn't care he just does whatever and he wins. He isn't a solid champion. He's the best that Protoss has, but he's not a solid champion, he doesn't have the nerves of steel, ability to make something out of nothing and all of the other intangibles that makes the consistent champs consistent. is that because of him or because of his race? I think it's just much harder to be consistently succesful with Protoss due to their reliance on buildsand catching the opponent offguard. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:01 Vindicare605 wrote: Here's the problem. Protoss owns the ladder. They dominate GM league. Everyone that plays Protoss on ladder cheeses, that's the best and easiest way to rank up even at the lower pro levels the best players are all cheesy Protoss that can't stand up in a macro game. Protoss has ground up design flaws that have been there since WoL. Blizzard doesn't want to fix them because they designed the entire race around all inning and hiding tech and being cheeseballs. As long as the best way to play Protoss on ladder is to just cheese, Protoss isn't going to get much fresh blood because that can only ever get you so far. Protoss also punishes opponents who are too passive and don't attack at the right moments, since they have the best late game deathball. The race seems designed to punish bad opponents instead of promoting good play. | ||
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darklycid
3556 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:03 Vindicare605 wrote: Compared to players like Dark, Serral and Maru? Yea I am. He falls apart in series, he's a victim of only being effective as long as his build orders aren't figured out yet. Compare him to Dark. Dark doesn't care he just does whatever and he wins. He isn't a solid champion. He's the best that Protoss has, but he's not a solid champion, he doesn't have the nerves of steel, ability to make something out of nothing and all of the other intangibles that makes the consistent champs consistent. Okay so which protoss performed well recently when his builds where figfured out? | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4967 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:01 Vindicare605 wrote: Here's the problem. Protoss owns the ladder. They dominate GM league. Everyone that plays Protoss on ladder cheeses, that's the best and easiest way to rank up even at the lower pro levels the best players are all cheesy Protoss that can't stand up in a macro game. Protoss has ground up design flaws that have been there since WoL. Blizzard doesn't want to fix them because they designed the entire race around all inning and hiding tech and being cheeseballs. As long as the best way to play Protoss on ladder is to just cheese, Protoss isn't going to get much fresh blood because that can only ever get you so far. This is the thing I dont buy about this historical argument.... it ignores all the toss champions since WOL until now, It ignores MC, Rain, Zest, herO, Classic, Parting, Dear.. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4967 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:06 darklycid wrote: Okay so which protoss performed well recently when his builds where figfured out? Zest | ||
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darklycid
3556 Posts
Don"t think Zest builds were figured out tbh. | ||
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egrimm
Poland1201 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:03 Vindicare605 wrote: "he's a victim of only being effective as long as his build orders aren't figured out yet." Isn't that true for all protoss players more or less? | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:03 Vindicare605 wrote: Compared to players like Dark, Serral and Maru? Yea I am. He falls apart in series, he's a victim of only being effective as long as his build orders aren't figured out yet. Compare him to Dark. Dark doesn't care he just does whatever and he wins. He isn't a solid champion. He's the best that Protoss has, but he's not a solid champion, he doesn't have the nerves of steel, ability to make something out of nothing and all of the other intangibles that makes the consistent champs consistent. Wow, I wonder what race in StarCraft 2 has this issue and I wonder what race this Trap player seems to play that might cause this issue. | ||
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Wintex
Norway16848 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:01 Vindicare605 wrote: Here's the problem. Protoss owns the ladder. They dominate GM league. Everyone that plays Protoss on ladder cheeses, that's the best and easiest way to rank up even at the lower pro levels the best players are all cheesy Protoss that can't stand up in a macro game. Protoss has ground up design flaws that have been there since WoL. Blizzard doesn't want to fix them because they designed the entire race around all inning and hiding tech and being cheeseballs. As long as the best way to play Protoss on ladder is to just cheese, Protoss isn't going to get much fresh blood because that can only ever get you so far. Idk I think the biggest issue is not the fact that Protoss is some bullshit race that is always a cheese fiesta and stuff, but that the game just is a bit too brutally punishing. If you think of damage taken as a rubberband, it snaps so much quicker than in BW (except zvz). Protoss for sure can do well as a macro race as well in SC2. The race is just very reliant on specific interactions and decisions are high investment high reward, but also high risk. Zerg is way less committal and freeform. Especially as the queen is just an all around beast of a unit. If it wasn't, the game would create a larger decision space for Zerg than "more queen is always better". | ||
Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
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Poopi
France12972 Posts
HeroMarine has a decent shot too, Zoun is doable in TvP and Solar is the weakest zerg left. Just play like Spirit! | ||
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darklycid
3556 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16124 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:06 Argonauta wrote: This is the thing I dont buy about this historical argument.... it ignores all the toss champions since WOL until now, It ignores MC, Rain, Zest, herO, Classic, Parting, Dear.. See where I say at the end that there's no new blood coming in? The game has evolved and this is more or less the final state that it's going to stay in, there aren't going to be any GIGANTIC sweeping changes that shake the entire meta up. So the weaknesses in Protoss design are only going to get worse and worse because this meta isn't going anywhere. There's not going to be any more end of year shake ups that are going to allow Protoss to innovate some new thing that wins them 3-5 tournaments in a row before it gets figured out and they go back to where they were at the end of EVERY major expansion. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16081 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:11 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru saves us from the all zergs semifinals! HeroMarine has a decent shot too, Zoun is doable in TvP and Solar is the weakest zerg left. Just play like Spirit! even if Heromarine does it, then the ro4 will not be a fight but an execution which wouldn't be that exciting either same with Zoun | ||
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darklycid
3556 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote: See where I say at the end that there's no new blood coming in? The game has evolved and this is more or less the final state that it's going to stay in, there aren't going to be any GIGANTIC sweeping changes that shake the entire meta up. So the weaknesses in Protoss design are only going to get worse and worse because this meta isn't going anywhere. There's not going to be any more end of year shake ups that are going to allow Protoss to innovate some new thing that wins them 3-5 tournaments in a row before it gets figured out and they go back to where they were at the end of EVERY major expansion. End of hots protoss was actually good tho. | ||
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Poopi
France12972 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:12 Charoisaur wrote: even if Heromarine does it, then the ro4 will not be a fight but an execution which wouldn't be that exciting either same with Zoun Well at least it’s not only zergs in Spodek! | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On February 26 2022 21:13 darklycid wrote: End of hots protoss was actually good tho. WoL Terran was good too, but LotV belongs to Zerg. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
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