Four groups of six players played out in Round-Robin format.
All matches are Bo3. • First place in each group advances directly to the Quarterfinals. • Second and third place in each group advance to the Round of 12.
Ties are broken in the following order: • Overall map difference • Overall number of map wins • Match wins amassed between the tied participants ('Mini-League') • Map difference between the tied participants ('Mini-League') • Number of map wins between the tied participants ('Mini-League') • Tie breaker matches • Coin toss
On February 25 2022 19:58 Argonauta wrote: oh wait... we start with this meh match instead of Trap vs Zest first place decider? nuts!
Let's be real, Trap is getting last place in this group considering his recent form
Looking at Aligulac his recent results do look very disappointing however, he did look pretty good vs Zest.
Well the no expectation = great result has been true for uThermal and Ryung so far, maybe Trap can channel the same energy today Would be a pleasnt suprise
If he had made Adepts instead of Stalkers then the hold would've been trivial because his army wouldn't have taken so much damage closing the distance to the Siege Tanks, and because the Marines would've been vulnerable to getting splashed by friendly fire. His Void Rays already dominated the air, so there was no need for Stalkers!
EDIT:
HeroMarine making PvT look easy for someone who complains about it so much!
On February 25 2022 21:30 Charoisaur wrote: I seriously wonder why HeroMarine hates Protoss so much considering it's by far his best matchup. He should be thankful Protoss exists
I think he hates Protoss for the same reason he's good against it. Lots and lots of practice
EDIT: What is going on with this group? We're on our way to 3 upsets in 3 series at this rate.
I fiel like Lambo is allready out. He s such a momentum based Player and with loosing to both foreigners he will probably be pretty demoralised allready. If he would go into the remaining ZvPs with the right Mindset, je could win either of them or even both. But now I Don t realy see it happening anymore
On February 25 2022 21:30 Charoisaur wrote: I seriously wonder why HeroMarine hates Protoss so much considering it's by far his best matchup. He should be thankful Protoss exists
On February 25 2022 22:52 Pandain wrote: Trap trying to play SC2 multiplayer on hard mode - start out with a handicap and then try to climb his way back in
Why are they saying "how he fares against Zest"? Isn't this his last TvP? He beat Zest, right? He has to beat Astrea and then has a make or break TvT vs Bunny? If he loses to Astrea his chances of getting out shrink considerably.
If Lambo beats Bunny here and then Lambo beats Trap, Astrea beats Heromarine, and Zest beats bunny - we could go into the final round with everyone at 2-2 :D
Which would actually make every final match a decider match - winner moves on, loser doens't
On February 25 2022 23:23 Acrofales wrote: Why are they saying "how he fares against Zest"? Isn't this his last TvP? He beat Zest, right? He has to beat Astrea and then has a make or break TvT vs Bunny? If he loses to Astrea his chances of getting out shrink considerably.
They were doing this yesterday too, they couldn't figure out a lot of the standings and whatnot.
I'm going to give them a break because they don't have the Liquipedia open when they are speaking and it's easy to mix up some players.
On February 25 2022 23:25 Pandain wrote: If Lambo beats Bunny here and then Lambo beats Trap, Astrea beats Heromarine, and Zest beats bunny - we could go into the final round with everyone at 2-2 :D
Which would actually make every final match a decider match - winner moves on, loser doens't
On February 25 2022 23:25 Pandain wrote: If Lambo beats Bunny here and then Lambo beats Trap, Astrea beats Heromarine, and Zest beats bunny - we could go into the final round with everyone at 2-2 :D
Which would actually make every final match a decider match - winner moves on, loser doens't
We both know that isn't going to happen.
A man can dream ... well not anymore
So with that win I think Bunny is into the playoffs no matter what!
On February 25 2022 23:25 Pandain wrote: If Lambo beats Bunny here and then Lambo beats Trap, Astrea beats Heromarine, and Zest beats bunny - we could go into the final round with everyone at 2-2 :D
Which would actually make every final match a decider match - winner moves on, loser doens't
We both know that isn't going to happen.
A man can dream ... well not anymore
So with that win I think Bunny is into the playoffs no matter what!
Well, he can go 3-2, Zest can go to 3-2, HeroMarine to 3-2 and Trap to 3-2 as well. Then one of them has to lose out on map score.
On February 25 2022 23:25 Pandain wrote: If Lambo beats Bunny here and then Lambo beats Trap, Astrea beats Heromarine, and Zest beats bunny - we could go into the final round with everyone at 2-2 :D
Which would actually make every final match a decider match - winner moves on, loser doens't
We both know that isn't going to happen.
A man can dream ... well not anymore
So with that win I think Bunny is into the playoffs no matter what!
But as you so accurately pointed out yesterday, he wants to get out of this in first place. He doesn't want Rogue or Dark in the next round.
On February 25 2022 22:28 Garnet wrote: It really seems like offline is a big buff for Terrans.
It shouldn't be surprising at all. Dodging Banelings and Storm is A LOT easier without lag.
EDIT: And Disruptors and Fungal Growth, and kiting Ultralisks and yea. Etc.
Just seems variance from a small enough sample set to me.
Code S at the top end wasn’t really appreciably different from the top end of international online tournaments, as PvT goes anyway. Which is an area Terrans have been making hay in here.
Terran requires more brute force basic unit micro but Protoss have a lot of finesse in the matchup that ping doesn’t help either. A fair bit of basic micro early game, then nailing your spells bang on in the late game.
Yes it’s less mechanically difficult at times, but it’s also incredibly timing and placement dependent too.
I dunno, these differences could be more stylistic too but Clem notably doing better against Serral/Reynor than the Kr Zergs, I think the ping seems to affect TvZ more than TvP
On February 25 2022 23:25 Pandain wrote: If Lambo beats Bunny here and then Lambo beats Trap, Astrea beats Heromarine, and Zest beats bunny - we could go into the final round with everyone at 2-2 :D
Which would actually make every final match a decider match - winner moves on, loser doens't
We both know that isn't going to happen.
A man can dream ... well not anymore
So with that win I think Bunny is into the playoffs no matter what!
But as you so accurately pointed out yesterday, he wants to get out of this in first place. He doesn't want Rogue or Dark in the next round.
No guarantee he won't meet Rogue or Dark in the next round if he's first. But at least it'll be the Ro8 already
On February 25 2022 23:27 Fanatic-Templar wrote: C'mon Trap. Keep Protoss hope alive.
Yes, yes! Increase the hope so the Protoss fans can suffer more later. Do the Bomber, Trap. DEW IT!
Straight up rooting for a Trap-Rogue or Trap-Serral finals at this point, aren't you .
Nobody in their right mind would think that Trap can make it against these two(or Dark). But if the point would be the biggest crush of Protoss hope I say Trap v Reynor semis into Trap v Rogue finals, so it's fast and harsh! And ugly!
The group is still pretty up in the air. Bunny is nearly a lock for the playoffs but something ike Zest and Astrea both going 4-0, and Bunny going 0-4 could still happen and put him out.
On February 25 2022 23:46 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: The existence of this build at the highest level is a travesty.
I want to see it lose every time it happens.
What are your thoughts on 12 Pools winning at the highest level?
12 pools don't involve bouncing around for 10 minutes against high health, high speed units with autoheal. Even classic cannon rush is fine. Proxy rax is fine. This shit is stupid.
On February 25 2022 23:25 Pandain wrote: If Lambo beats Bunny here and then Lambo beats Trap, Astrea beats Heromarine, and Zest beats bunny - we could go into the final round with everyone at 2-2 :D
Which would actually make every final match a decider match - winner moves on, loser doens't
We both know that isn't going to happen.
A man can dream ... well not anymore
So with that win I think Bunny is into the playoffs no matter what!
But as you so accurately pointed out yesterday, he wants to get out of this in first place. He doesn't want Rogue or Dark in the next round.
I want to actually build off of this. Not only does Group C/D third place have 2/3 chance of Rogue/Dark - which is terrible, but Group C/D second place have 2/3 chance of Dream/Ryung - which is actually amazing
On February 26 2022 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: well I don't like it as much anymore for HM... He should still be fine, but he has to fight to get a tangible advantage now
or Astrea loses all his splash before 3-3 and now HM is winning
On February 26 2022 00:23 [PkF] Wire wrote: can HM & Bunny both make it out ?
Is Bunny wins 2-1 and Zest loses then yes, if Bunny wins 2-0 and Zest wins 2-0 then no if HM wins and Zest loses then yes. It really depends on Zest, if he wins 2-0 vs Lambo, then Zest advances
On February 26 2022 01:06 [PkF] Wire wrote: gosh that is so close
what game?
Zest nearly looked to make his all-in work to me, but Lambo held fine in the end. It looked close at some points
thanks i will watch it later
it was definitely a very fun and tricky all-in but Lambo made a few nice decisions and overall was never in too much danger. An interesting and offbeat game though
On February 26 2022 01:23 [PkF] Wire wrote: PvZ still the ugly duckling of asymetric mus if Lambo - Zest is a good sample of what it looks like atm ^^
Definitely looks like it's Zerg favoured at the highest level but at the same time I think Heromarine, Trap and Bunny all played better than Zest in this group.
On February 26 2022 01:23 [PkF] Wire wrote: PvZ still the ugly duckling of asymetric mus if Lambo - Zest is a good sample of what it looks like atm ^^
Definitely looks like it's Zerg favoured at the highest level but at the same time I think Heromarine, Trap and Bunny all played better than Zest in this group.
Agree. That was clearly not a peaking Zest like last year
Man I hate Lambo so much (not really) Out of all the players he could have beaten ofc it's the protoss one, like if you're gonna have a bad scoreline at least don't ruin it for the only race that is lacking players in the playoff stage. Also wtf Zest
On February 26 2022 01:45 tigera6 wrote: Trap could have gone straight to the Ro8, instead now he facing either Dark/Rogue or the 2nd place from group D
I think his best hope is Clem or Byun make it out in second from D. I'd probably fancy him considerably more against Maru than either of Dark or Rogue anyway!
On February 26 2022 01:47 EquilasH wrote: I feel like everyone in this group had some great games but also somewhat disappointing games. Felt a bit strange.
it was really uneven all along indeed, very hard to read / predict
On February 26 2022 01:47 eunoia wrote: Well played by Astrea. If I remember rightly he beat Trap at Katowice last year with a proxy nexus probe recall.
On February 26 2022 01:47 EquilasH wrote: I feel like everyone in this group had some great games but also somewhat disappointing games. Felt a bit strange.
Edit: It did make for a very entertaining group though.
Yeah, thats why all these players in group C is considered as "tier 2", for a lack of consistency at highest level of competition.
On February 26 2022 01:47 EquilasH wrote: I feel like everyone in this group had some great games but also somewhat disappointing games. Felt a bit strange.
Edit: It did make for a very entertaining group though.
Yeah, thats why all these players in group C is considered as "tier 2", for a lack of consistency at highest level of competition.
Yeah that's true. Coming into this I'm pretty sure most people considered Zest a tier 1 player though.
On February 26 2022 01:56 Xain0n wrote: Trap could beat Rogue or Dark in a bo5 of an ro12, he has sadly been unable to in bo7 finals. Trap's PvT also hasn't looked that good today.
On February 26 2022 01:56 Xain0n wrote: Trap could beat Rogue or Dark in a bo5 of an ro12, he has sadly been unable to in bo7 finals. Trap's PvT also hasn't looked that good today.
no one has had good PvT in 4 months
Has any Protoss had any good matchup in 4 months ?
On February 26 2022 01:56 Xain0n wrote: Trap could beat Rogue or Dark in a bo5 of an ro12, he has sadly been unable to in bo7 finals. Trap's PvT also hasn't looked that good today.
no one has had good PvT in 4 months
Has any Protoss had any good matchup in 4 months ?
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
Well I was only comparing Maru and Serral. I would say right now, Maru>Rogue>Reynor>Serral.
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
Well I was only comparing Maru and Serral. I would say right now, Maru>Rogue>Reynor>Serral.
For big tournament win consistency? No way. Maru wins about 1 top tournament a year since 2018. Rogue gets 2ish.
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
Well I was only comparing Maru and Serral. I would say right now, Maru>Rogue>Reynor>Serral.
Okay fair, no shade at you.
Because I am a clown, I am still malding at Rotti's comment the other day about a game Dark won where he was like `Only 2 other Zergs would have won this' and goes on to elaborate how Rogue is not one of those two
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
He's kind of the anti-Maru, where hes weirdly disrespected as opposed to Maru who even when hes not winning much is consistently called the best player in the world, lol
I'd say poor Rogue, but with a resume like he has he doesn't need my sympathy, lol
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
Well I was only comparing Maru and Serral. I would say right now, Maru>Rogue>Reynor>Serral.
Okay fair, no shade at you.
Because I am a clown, I am still malding at Rotti's comment the other day about a game Dark won where he was like `Only 2 other Zergs would have won this' and goes on to elaborate how Rogue is not one of those two
I remember that actually. Definitely a weird comment by Rotti.
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
He's kind of the anti-Maru, where hes weirdly disrespected as opposed to Maru who even when hes not winning much is consistently called the best player in the world, lol
I'd say poor Rogue, but with a resume like he has he doesn't need my sympathy, lol
Maru just frequently passes the eye test as the most skilled Starcraft player, he’s probably won a lot less than he really should have, and that’s still a lot.
Rogue is like Novak Djokovic. He’s equalled Federer’s slam tally, but dagnabbit Federer plays with such grace that he still gets my vote
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
He's kind of the anti-Maru, where hes weirdly disrespected as opposed to Maru who even when hes not winning much is consistently called the best player in the world, lol
I'd say poor Rogue, but with a resume like he has he doesn't need my sympathy, lol
Maru just frequently passes the eye test as the most skilled Starcraft player, he’s probably won a lot less than he really should have, and that’s still a lot.
Rogue is like Novak Djokovic. He’s equalled Federer’s slam tally, but dagnabbit Federer plays with such grace that he still gets my vote
I mean, people also ignore Maru's bad plays. I'm still angry about the time he had a won game and lost over 30 SCVs to not raising a Depot and people raved about his godly play.
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
He's kind of the anti-Maru, where hes weirdly disrespected as opposed to Maru who even when hes not winning much is consistently called the best player in the world, lol
I'd say poor Rogue, but with a resume like he has he doesn't need my sympathy, lol
Maru just frequently passes the eye test as the most skilled Starcraft player, he’s probably won a lot less than he really should have, and that’s still a lot.
Rogue is like Novak Djokovic. He’s equalled Federer’s slam tally, but dagnabbit Federer plays with such grace that he still gets my vote
I dunno, Im not convinced that most StarCraft viewers are going to be able to reliably tell whether or not Maru is playing if we eliminated name plates, lol. I feel like we'd see a disproportionate amount of If-He-Won-Hes-Maru-If-He-Lost-Its-Not-Maru.
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
He's kind of the anti-Maru, where hes weirdly disrespected as opposed to Maru who even when hes not winning much is consistently called the best player in the world, lol
I'd say poor Rogue, but with a resume like he has he doesn't need my sympathy, lol
Maru just frequently passes the eye test as the most skilled Starcraft player, he’s probably won a lot less than he really should have, and that’s still a lot.
Rogue is like Novak Djokovic. He’s equalled Federer’s slam tally, but dagnabbit Federer plays with such grace that he still gets my vote
I dunno, Im not convinced that most StarCraft viewers are going to be able to reliably tell whether or not Maru is playing if we eliminated name plates, lol. I feel like we'd see a disproportionate amount of If-He-Won-Hes-Maru-If-He-Lost-Its-Not-Maru.
On February 26 2022 01:47 koalabro wrote: Maru > Serral. Maru is the only player in recent years who consistently wins big tournaments.
Serious disrespect to Rogue right here. And I hate seeing Rogue win.
I'm always surprised and disappointed by how a strangely large number of people underrate Rogue
Dude is literally the most successful player of Legacy of the Void. He's won a Blizzcon, 2 IEM world champs, 3 GSLs and 2 super tournaments in 4 years. Like... bloody hell...
He's kind of the anti-Maru, where hes weirdly disrespected as opposed to Maru who even when hes not winning much is consistently called the best player in the world, lol
I'd say poor Rogue, but with a resume like he has he doesn't need my sympathy, lol
Maru just frequently passes the eye test as the most skilled Starcraft player, he’s probably won a lot less than he really should have, and that’s still a lot.
Rogue is like Novak Djokovic. He’s equalled Federer’s slam tally, but dagnabbit Federer plays with such grace that he still gets my vote
I dunno, Im not convinced that most StarCraft viewers are going to be able to reliably tell whether or not Maru is playing if we eliminated name plates, lol. I feel like we'd see a disproportionate amount of If-He-Won-Hes-Maru-If-He-Lost-Its-Not-Maru.
Tbh I think the clue would be turtling into ghost/lib in TvZ
But yeah I think these players are all so good that if you minus the names the small margins that split a good and top pro are difficult to spot blind, unless one is themselves an elite level player
Flying units just should not be viable as the core of any army. Pathing and map architecture is such a key part of StarCraft's strategic gameplay and flying units just ignore all that.
I must say. A HUGE nerf to toss is needed now, considering there are a lot of toss in GM ladder. And now, one toss survived the group stage? Insanity. Nerfs. Nerfs all around!
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
IMO, Reynor is the undisputed interview GOAT of SC2.
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
I wonder why I dislike him so much while everyone says he's so charismatic. I loved both MC and Huk when they were active.
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
I wonder why I dislike him so much while everyone says he's so charismatic. I loved both MC and Huk when they were active.
He has a very in-your-face type of attitude and humor. I love it but I don't think it's for everyone.
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
I wonder why I dislike him so much while everyone says he's so charismatic. I loved both MC and Huk when they were active.
He has a very in-your-face type of attitude and humor. I love it but I don't think it's for everyone.
Edit: And he's very sarcastic.
It's not for the millennial snowflakes that's for sure
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
I wonder why I dislike him so much while everyone says he's so charismatic. I loved both MC and Huk when they were active.
He has a very in-your-face type of attitude and humor. I love it but I don't think it's for everyone.
Edit: And he's very sarcastic.
It's not for the millennial snowflakes that's for sure
Idk I think if you don't get to know him it feels a lil bit forced sometimes like I remember harstem rapping along on cam after a match and suddenly reynor does it too.
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
I wonder why I dislike him so much while everyone says he's so charismatic. I loved both MC and Huk when they were active.
He has a very in-your-face type of attitude and humor. I love it but I don't think it's for everyone.
yeah I mean just all very different personality types? HuK is kind of the only one I'd call "charismatic" in a straightforward sense, overly confident, liked messing with ppl, occasionally obnoxious. MC is just a funny, obv incredibly nice guy who liked to put on a theatrical kind of show. Reynor is a kind of awkward but genuinely hyper-enthusiastic kid.
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
I wonder why I dislike him so much while everyone says he's so charismatic. I loved both MC and Huk when they were active.
He has a very in-your-face type of attitude and humor. I love it but I don't think it's for everyone.
yeah I mean just all very different personality types? HuK is kind of the only one I'd call "charismatic" in a straightforward sense, overly confident, liked messing with ppl, occasionally obnoxious. MC is just a funny, obv incredibly nice guy who liked to put on a theatrical kind of show. Reynor is a kind of awkward but genuinely hyper-enthusiastic kid.
They're definitely all different personality types but I'd call them all charismatic - but as you said, maybe not in a traditional sense.
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
I wonder why I dislike him so much while everyone says he's so charismatic. I loved both MC and Huk when they were active.
He has a very in-your-face type of attitude and humor. I love it but I don't think it's for everyone.
Edit: And he's very sarcastic.
It's not for the millennial snowflakes that's for sure
Idk I think if you don't get to know him it feels a lil bit forced sometimes like I remember harstem rapping along on cam after a match and suddenly reynor does it too.
Rapping along with music is a great way to get pumped and I don't think Reynor necessarily does it because Harstem did.
I didn't get to watch Reynor vs Clem but what I saw of Maru vs Clem he looked pretty normal to me. Clem was always an underdog against those two going into this group. His recent match history vs both of them is not pretty. Maru in particular is on an insane streak against him.
On February 26 2022 03:45 JJH777 wrote: I didn't get to watch Reynor vs Clem but what I saw of Maru vs Clem he looked pretty normal to me. Clem was always an underdog against those two going into this group. His recent match history vs both of them is not pretty. Maru in particular is on an insane streak against him.
Fair enough. He just looked super solid early on and then took some unfortunate tactical decisions but I might be misreading lack of experience as nerves.
On February 26 2022 03:45 JJH777 wrote: I didn't get to watch Reynor vs Clem but what I saw of Maru vs Clem he looked pretty normal to me. Clem was always an underdog against those two going into this group. His recent match history vs both of them is not pretty. Maru in particular is on an insane streak against him.
Fair enough. He just looked super solid early on and then took some unfortunate tactical decisions but I might be misreading lack of experience as nerves.
With the caveat that I haven’t seen the games, damn work!
Clem’s absolute best period he was doing about the same as, if not slightly worse than Serral and Reynor’s regular/‘slump’ level.
He’s absolutely excellent but he didn’t translate some excellent TvZ clinics in WCS to the international tournaments, or round out all his matchups, especially TvT to the same degree.
I wouldn’t have eaten my shoe if Clem made it out in top 2 spots, but assuming Reynor brought his A game to Katowice I think Clem fighting for that third place is about his par if he can play his best.
On February 26 2022 03:59 Pandain wrote: Just getting back - how good has maru looked?
He lost once against Byun but doing better very GOAT-like thats for sure. He's not gonna get a 10-0 because of how the biased organizers like to stack groups to favor certain players to make sure they 100% advance
On February 26 2022 03:45 JJH777 wrote: I didn't get to watch Reynor vs Clem but what I saw of Maru vs Clem he looked pretty normal to me. Clem was always an underdog against those two going into this group. His recent match history vs both of them is not pretty. Maru in particular is on an insane streak against him.
Fair enough. He just looked super solid early on and then took some unfortunate tactical decisions but I might be misreading lack of experience as nerves.
With the caveat that I haven’t seen the games, damn work!
Clem’s absolute best period he was doing about the same as, if not slightly worse than Serral and Reynor’s regular/‘slump’ level.
He’s absolutely excellent but he didn’t translate some excellent TvZ clinics in WCS to the international tournaments, or round out all his matchups, especially TvT to the same degree.
I wouldn’t have eaten my shoe if Clem made it out in top 2 spots, but assuming Reynor brought his A game to Katowice I think Clem fighting for that third place is about his par if he can play his best.
No mate, Clem during his best period(right before April to May 2021) was having Serralesque win ratios but somehow like Cure's online domination in early 2020, no major tournaments were being held at the time.
On February 26 2022 03:45 JJH777 wrote: I didn't get to watch Reynor vs Clem but what I saw of Maru vs Clem he looked pretty normal to me. Clem was always an underdog against those two going into this group. His recent match history vs both of them is not pretty. Maru in particular is on an insane streak against him.
Fair enough. He just looked super solid early on and then took some unfortunate tactical decisions but I might be misreading lack of experience as nerves.
With the caveat that I haven’t seen the games, damn work!
Clem’s absolute best period he was doing about the same as, if not slightly worse than Serral and Reynor’s regular/‘slump’ level.
He’s absolutely excellent but he didn’t translate some excellent TvZ clinics in WCS to the international tournaments, or round out all his matchups, especially TvT to the same degree.
I wouldn’t have eaten my shoe if Clem made it out in top 2 spots, but assuming Reynor brought his A game to Katowice I think Clem fighting for that third place is about his par if he can play his best.
To be fair I've mostly seen Clem play TvZ and TvP in general so you're probably right about the TvT. His TvZ always looked excellent from my PoV though but Reynor definitely looks in form for ZvT.
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
I wonder why I dislike him so much while everyone says he's so charismatic. I loved both MC and Huk when they were active.
He has a very in-your-face type of attitude and humor. I love it but I don't think it's for everyone.
Edit: And he's very sarcastic.
I don't mind sarcasm, but I guess that first two parts will be more about that. Also from my view it all seems so much forced.
On February 26 2022 03:07 koalabro wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have seen any SC2 pro as charismatic as Reynor since the days of players like MC and HuK?
I wonder why I dislike him so much while everyone says he's so charismatic. I loved both MC and Huk when they were active.
He has a very in-your-face type of attitude and humor. I love it but I don't think it's for everyone.
Edit: And he's very sarcastic.
It's not for the millennial snowflakes that's for sure
Well then I am a snowflake. Oh noez, what am I gonna do in Summer?
The fact that it says "DEATH, AND THE WORLDS ENDING" above the ticker bar for the entirety of every break on the B stream doesn't seem very sensitive to me.
On February 26 2022 03:45 JJH777 wrote: I didn't get to watch Reynor vs Clem but what I saw of Maru vs Clem he looked pretty normal to me. Clem was always an underdog against those two going into this group. His recent match history vs both of them is not pretty. Maru in particular is on an insane streak against him.
Fair enough. He just looked super solid early on and then took some unfortunate tactical decisions but I might be misreading lack of experience as nerves.
With the caveat that I haven’t seen the games, damn work!
Clem’s absolute best period he was doing about the same as, if not slightly worse than Serral and Reynor’s regular/‘slump’ level.
He’s absolutely excellent but he didn’t translate some excellent TvZ clinics in WCS to the international tournaments, or round out all his matchups, especially TvT to the same degree.
I wouldn’t have eaten my shoe if Clem made it out in top 2 spots, but assuming Reynor brought his A game to Katowice I think Clem fighting for that third place is about his par if he can play his best.
No mate, Clem during his best period(right before April to May 2021) was having Serralesque win ratios but somehow like Cure's online domination in early 2020, no major tournaments were being held at the time.
That’s a rather short period.
Although I’m not dissing Clem, I’m more praising/contextualising Serral and Reynor’s level.
Not to mention the top Korean talents. Clem was/is very much on the threshold of stepping up to that tier too, I just don’t think he’s done quite enough yet
On February 26 2022 04:08 Elentos wrote: The fact that it says "DEATH, AND THE WORLDS ENDING" above the ticker bar for the entirety of every break on the B stream doesn't seem very sensitive to me.
Yeah.... given the giant war and terrible human suffering going on at one of Poland's borders.
On February 26 2022 04:08 Poaktree wrote: Wtf, how did Byun lose 2 -0 so fast against Zoun?
Zoun's good man
I only saw game 1 but it was a rather funky, pheonix opening into double stargate pheonix with a robo and 1 imortal+ 2 collosus, then 2 (or 3?) carrier then a bunch more pheonix with range a couple more carriers after that. He just kind of out macro BuyN and killed all his anti air
On February 26 2022 04:08 Poaktree wrote: Wtf, how did Byun lose 2 -0 so fast against Zoun?
Zoun's good man
I only saw game 1 but it was a rather funky, pheonix opening into double stargate pheonix with a robo and 1 imortal+ 2 collosus, then 2 (or 3?) carrier then a bunch more pheonix with range a couple more carriers after that. He just kind of out macro BuyN and killed all his anti air
In game 2 Zoun proxied a gate and Byun fell apart to 3 units.
On February 26 2022 04:08 Poaktree wrote: Wtf, how did Byun lose 2 -0 so fast against Zoun?
Zoun's good man
I only saw game 1 but it was a rather funky, pheonix opening into double stargate pheonix with a robo and 1 imortal+ 2 collosus, then 2 (or 3?) carrier then a bunch more pheonix with range a couple more carriers after that. He just kind of out macro BuyN and killed all his anti air
I can never pick Zoun, his non-mirrors seem to fluctuate wildly from ‘oh that’s a cool style nobody else does’ into him losing, or he’s capable of taking out almost anyone.
And when I think he’s better at PvT than PvZ those flip, or vice versa.
Great player to watch as long as you’re not either a big fan or a gambler
On February 26 2022 04:08 Elentos wrote: The fact that it says "DEATH, AND THE WORLDS ENDING" above the ticker bar for the entirety of every break on the B stream doesn't seem very sensitive to me.
On February 26 2022 04:08 Poaktree wrote: Wtf, how did Byun lose 2 -0 so fast against Zoun?
Zoun's good man
I only saw game 1 but it was a rather funky, pheonix opening into double stargate pheonix with a robo and 1 imortal+ 2 collosus, then 2 (or 3?) carrier then a bunch more pheonix with range a couple more carriers after that. He just kind of out macro BuyN and killed all his anti air
I can never pick Zoun, his non-mirrors seem to fluctuate wildly from ‘oh that’s a cool style nobody else does’ into him losing, or he’s capable of taking out almost anyone.
And when I think he’s better at PvT than PvZ those flip, or vice versa.
Great player to watch as long as you’re not either a big fan or a gambler
It's weird, in my mind Zoun has kinda slotted himself into the hole left by Hurricane. Which I'm not sure is actually accurate.
On February 26 2022 04:24 EquilasH wrote: I only caught the end of that. Was it just a well executed timing attack or what exactly happened?
Reynor spent all of his Queen energy on creep spread, and had no healing against one Medivac full of Marines and a couple Helions. He lost 3 Queen of a simple attack, and couldnt fight the BC despite scouting it early.
On February 26 2022 04:22 Fanatic-Templar wrote: When dying to Maru, always check if his Depots are raised before gging .
Reynor did just that, he send all the Lings over hope to get something done before gg
Yeah, that's why I brought it up. I found it funny that the last thing we saw on stream was Reynor's Zerglings getting locked out by Maru's Depot wall before he immediately gged :D.
On February 26 2022 04:08 Poaktree wrote: Wtf, how did Byun lose 2 -0 so fast against Zoun?
Zoun's good man
I only saw game 1 but it was a rather funky, pheonix opening into double stargate pheonix with a robo and 1 imortal+ 2 collosus, then 2 (or 3?) carrier then a bunch more pheonix with range a couple more carriers after that. He just kind of out macro BuyN and killed all his anti air
I can never pick Zoun, his non-mirrors seem to fluctuate wildly from ‘oh that’s a cool style nobody else does’ into him losing, or he’s capable of taking out almost anyone.
And when I think he’s better at PvT than PvZ those flip, or vice versa.
Great player to watch as long as you’re not either a big fan or a gambler
It's weird, in my mind Zoun has kinda slotted himself into the hole left by Hurricane. Which I'm not sure is actually accurate.
That’s not a bad shout actually! although in my mind Hurricane was more of a PvZ occasional sniper, Zoun seems both more baffling and well rounded
On February 26 2022 04:24 EquilasH wrote: I only caught the end of that. Was it just a well executed timing attack or what exactly happened?
Reynor scouted a BC rush, which I think leads to the assumption the first unit you need to worry about is a BC, but then maru just walked across the map with 8 marines and 4 hellions and killed him.
On February 26 2022 04:51 koalabro wrote: Looks like Maru won't be able to even do 10-1. We all know why though. We also know why others might have gotten 10-0
Jesus dude give it a rest, this is TL not Twitch chat
On February 26 2022 04:51 koalabro wrote: Looks like Maru won't be able to even do 10-1. We all know why though. We also know why others might have gotten 10-0
We all know this is the hardest group but didn't you just say the exact same thing a few pages ago?
Should be interesting to see who the third person out of Group D will be, given that Maru and Reynor are basically guaranteed to be somewhere in the top three.
Maru's dead but his efficiency since the actual moment he lost has been insane. After the big broodlord fight Reynor was actually ahead in resources lost by several thousand. Maru is more than 20k ahead now.
Reynor almost went full foreigner but Maru threw it. But gg nonetheless. Wa better than Serral could've done
On February 26 2022 05:09 Vindicare605 wrote: Having these two in the same group is a fucking crime. We need a Bo7!
Yeah and its fucking stupid how rigged these groups are. Its literally set up for Serral to win. They put most of the best players in the same group so they get eliminated so Serral wouldn't have to play against them. What a joke.
On February 26 2022 05:09 koalabro wrote: Reynor almost went full foreigner but Maru threw it. But gg nonetheless. Wa better than Serral could've done
How did Maru threw it?
Just ignore koalabro lol they won't be here long, based on their posts.
Well, I was actually watching so if anyone was throwing it was Reynor xD
On February 26 2022 05:11 swarminfestor wrote: Why must we overpraise Serral when we have Reynor in the foreigner land? He is the one who should deserved all the mentions, not Serral.
I would bet on the fact that after Reynor won IEM he didn't win anythign else. While Serral stayed relevant.
On February 26 2022 05:11 swarminfestor wrote: Why must we overpraise Serral when we have Reynor in the foreigner land? He is the one who should deserved all the mentions, not Serral.
Reynor is my favourite foreign Zerg by a decent margin but I still think Serral deserves some mentions, particularly for his lategame.
On February 26 2022 05:11 swarminfestor wrote: Why must we overpraise Serral when we have Reynor in the foreigner land? He is the one who should deserved all the mentions, not Serral.
I mean, there's been a similar problem observed with Maru compared to Rogue too. I think 2018 has left a big impression.
On February 26 2022 05:11 swarminfestor wrote: Why must we overpraise Serral when we have Reynor in the foreigner land? He is the one who should deserved all the mentions, not Serral.
I mean, there's been a similar problem observed with Maru compared to Rogue too. I think 2018 has left a big impression.
nah the problem with Rogue is how low his lows are, the guy is a rollercoaster and you never know where he is in the ride
On February 26 2022 04:51 koalabro wrote: Looks like Maru won't be able to even do 10-1. We all know why though. We also know why others might have gotten 10-0
We all know this is the hardest group but didn't you just say the exact same thing a few pages ago?
I’m not even sure it’s as hard as people are making out.
If it’s the group of death it’s not by much. Admittedly I did vote for it in that poll!
Lot depends who shows up I guess. Solar really brought his A game in vZ, Clem hasn’t in this group in the way he needed to.
Group C was a real rollercoaster as it felt anyone could take anyone out and the level was reasonably even, and in that sense could maybe be considered the hardest group.
I dunno, I think people’s general evaluation of players is super wonky. Scarlett’s done nothing of note internationally in eons, I’m not sure Byun’s actually as good as he was when he won his first post-military tournament.
Conversely solid Code S staples like the Bunnyjwa and Dream, and of course Trap seem consistently underrated for whatever reason.
Forgive my ramblings, just salty I can’t watch the carnage live!
On February 26 2022 04:51 koalabro wrote: Looks like Maru won't be able to even do 10-1. We all know why though. We also know why others might have gotten 10-0
We all know this is the hardest group but didn't you just say the exact same thing a few pages ago?
I’m not even sure it’s as hard as people are making out.
If it’s the group of death it’s not by much. Admittedly I did vote for it in that poll!
Lot depends who shows up I guess. Solar really brought his A game in vZ, Clem hasn’t in this group in the way he needed to.
Group C was a real rollercoaster as it felt anyone could take anyone out and the level was reasonably even, and in that sense could maybe be considered the hardest group.
I dunno, I think people’s general evaluation of players is super wonky. Scarlett’s done nothing of note internationally in eons, I’m not sure Byun’s actually as good as he was when he won his first post-military tournament.
Conversely solid Code S staples like the Bunnyjwa and Dream, and of course Trap seem consistently underrated for whatever reason.
Forgive my ramblings, just salty I can’t watch the carnage live!
If every player in Group D played at their absolute peak it would be an unreal group of death. Maru and Reynor delivered but not the rest, so in retrospect I think other groups were tougher.
I think Group C was the toughest group after seeing them all play out.
On February 26 2022 04:51 koalabro wrote: Looks like Maru won't be able to even do 10-1. We all know why though. We also know why others might have gotten 10-0
We all know this is the hardest group but didn't you just say the exact same thing a few pages ago?
I’m not even sure it’s as hard as people are making out.
If it’s the group of death it’s not by much. Admittedly I did vote for it in that poll!
Lot depends who shows up I guess. Solar really brought his A game in vZ, Clem hasn’t in this group in the way he needed to.
Group C was a real rollercoaster as it felt anyone could take anyone out and the level was reasonably even, and in that sense could maybe be considered the hardest group.
I dunno, I think people’s general evaluation of players is super wonky. Scarlett’s done nothing of note internationally in eons, I’m not sure Byun’s actually as good as he was when he won his first post-military tournament.
Conversely solid Code S staples like the Bunnyjwa and Dream, and of course Trap seem consistently underrated for whatever reason.
Forgive my ramblings, just salty I can’t watch the carnage live!
If every player in Group D played at their absolute peak it would be an unreal group of death. Maru and Reynor delivered but not the rest, so in retrospect I think other groups were tougher.
Well Zoun is peaking, in a 6 player pool, there is not much room that only 3 players peaking.
On February 26 2022 04:51 koalabro wrote: Looks like Maru won't be able to even do 10-1. We all know why though. We also know why others might have gotten 10-0
We all know this is the hardest group but didn't you just say the exact same thing a few pages ago?
I’m not even sure it’s as hard as people are making out.
If it’s the group of death it’s not by much. Admittedly I did vote for it in that poll!
Lot depends who shows up I guess. Solar really brought his A game in vZ, Clem hasn’t in this group in the way he needed to.
Group C was a real rollercoaster as it felt anyone could take anyone out and the level was reasonably even, and in that sense could maybe be considered the hardest group.
I dunno, I think people’s general evaluation of players is super wonky. Scarlett’s done nothing of note internationally in eons, I’m not sure Byun’s actually as good as he was when he won his first post-military tournament.
Conversely solid Code S staples like the Bunnyjwa and Dream, and of course Trap seem consistently underrated for whatever reason.
Forgive my ramblings, just salty I can’t watch the carnage live!
I gotta be honest I saw very little of Byun's games so I can't really comment on his current form. And while this didn't end up being the group of death in the sense that it's the hardest to predict I still think it's the group with the best players.
I always loved Trap but didn't know what to expect since his recent results didn't look great. I'm really happy he showed up with some solid play though.
On February 26 2022 04:51 koalabro wrote: Looks like Maru won't be able to even do 10-1. We all know why though. We also know why others might have gotten 10-0
We all know this is the hardest group but didn't you just say the exact same thing a few pages ago?
I’m not even sure it’s as hard as people are making out.
If it’s the group of death it’s not by much. Admittedly I did vote for it in that poll!
Lot depends who shows up I guess. Solar really brought his A game in vZ, Clem hasn’t in this group in the way he needed to.
Group C was a real rollercoaster as it felt anyone could take anyone out and the level was reasonably even, and in that sense could maybe be considered the hardest group.
I dunno, I think people’s general evaluation of players is super wonky. Scarlett’s done nothing of note internationally in eons, I’m not sure Byun’s actually as good as he was when he won his first post-military tournament.
Conversely solid Code S staples like the Bunnyjwa and Dream, and of course Trap seem consistently underrated for whatever reason.
Forgive my ramblings, just salty I can’t watch the carnage live!
If every player in Group D played at their absolute peak it would be an unreal group of death. Maru and Reynor delivered but not the rest, so in retrospect I think other groups were tougher.
Well Zoun is peaking, in a 6 player pool, there is not much room that only 3 players peaking.
Yeah Zoun is playing really well. I think he's a real dark horse, though a lot of the ro12 draws are brutal.
This is why we need transparency into how the groups are decided. This is what most likely happened:
ESL put Serral in the hands down easiest group there can be, and put him in an earlier day. Then put people like Maru and Reynor in the last group knowing they will play long games and they'll be tired. This gives Serral rest time and time to observe Maru and Reynor. They are gonna be extremely tired the next day and Serral will capitalize on that. Honestly. All of the groups should have been played at the same time.
You guys are out of your mind. The reason Group D is the group of death is because if Clem was in Group B or C he would have had no trouble at all advancing out of his group, he would have been fighting for 1st or second instead of almost going 0-3 because his first two matches were against Maru and Reynor.
That same could be said for any of the other players in this group. Put them in Group B or C and they would have had a MUCH easier team advancing out in 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in any of those groups except for maybe A which is stacked with 4 elite Koreans.
No but instead we have all of them in the same group. It's a higher skill level group that is ALSO competitive. Group C as an opposite example had a lot of parity but with weaker players than is in Group D. Group B was two elite players and then 4 players that wouldn't have a shot at advancing out of Group D at all if they were subbed in for any of the players in it.
On February 26 2022 05:28 Vindicare605 wrote: You guys are out of your mind. The reason Group D is the group of death is because if Clem was in Group B or C he would have had no trouble at all advancing out of his group, he would have been fighting for 1st or second instead of almost going 0-3 because his first two matches were against Maru and Reynor.
That same could be said for any of the other players in this group. Put them in Group B or C and they would have had a MUCH easier team advancing out in 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in any of those groups except for maybe A which is stacked with 4 elite Koreans.
No but instead we have all of them in the same group. It's a higher skill level group that is ALSO competitive. Group C as an opposite example had a lot of parity but with weaker players than is in Group D. Group B was two elite players and then 4 players that wouldn't have a shot at advancing out of Group D at all if they were subbed in for any of the players in it.
Would Clem have easily advanced from B or C playing like he is? I think Clem's definitely playing well below his peak level, losing 0-2 to Maru is understandable, losing to Reynor is understandable but it wasn't even particularly close in scoreline or the games. He's also having trouble with Scarlett who might be one of the weaker players in the ro24. If I had to guess he'd make it out of B but not C.
(I still think group D is the group of death, and we obviously can't tell ahead of time what version of players will show up.)
Well yeah, somehow the person with the highest seed/EPT points is put into group D but not A is a big weird. Last year TY got the most pts and he was in group A iirc.
On February 26 2022 05:32 tigera6 wrote: Well yeah, somehow the person with the highest seed/EPT points is put into group D but not A is a big weird. Last year TY got the most pts and he was in group A iirc.
I think you know why
On February 26 2022 05:33 FCHK wrote: Let's just agree that the rules regarding the group draw is not good enough, and hope that it will be improved next season
Wouldn't hold my breath. Russia is too busy invading Ukraine and Microsoft doesn't care about esports
With Clem winning in the end, group D is actually the less surprising so far ! Things can change with Zoun going up against both Clem and Maru, Clem could very well not get out of this
Had stuff to do so watched the Reynor Maru match from the vod. Holy hell it delivered!! They both certainly will qualify and I'm very hyped for the coming up matches.
On February 26 2022 05:27 koalabro wrote: This is why we need transparency into how the groups are decided. This is what most likely happened:
ESL put Serral in the hands down easiest group there can be, and put him in an earlier day. Then put people like Maru and Reynor in the last group knowing they will play long games and they'll be tired. This gives Serral rest time and time to observe Maru and Reynor. They are gonna be extremely tired the next day and Serral will capitalize on that. Honestly. All of the groups should have been played at the same time.
You have no proof. You pull stuff from your ass. Can you please stop? You are an idiot.
On February 26 2022 05:27 koalabro wrote: This is why we need transparency into how the groups are decided. This is what most likely happened:
ESL put Serral in the hands down easiest group there can be, and put him in an earlier day. Then put people like Maru and Reynor in the last group knowing they will play long games and they'll be tired. This gives Serral rest time and time to observe Maru and Reynor. They are gonna be extremely tired the next day and Serral will capitalize on that. Honestly. All of the groups should have been played at the same time.
You have no proof. You pull stuff from your ass. Can you please stop? You are an idiot.
With no group setup transparency from ESL, all I can do is speculate.
On February 26 2022 05:41 EquilasH wrote: If you just look at the seeding of EPT points it looks pretty clear to me how groups are decided?
1-4 are all in different groups. 5-8 are in different groups. 9-12 are in different groups 13-16 are in different groups.
Hopefully it's completely randomized from there. This is never gonna leave us with perfect groups but no system is.
It is, but for 2 years in a row the draw results are lopesided
As I said, no system is gonna leave us with perfect groups.
Edit: This is the same for all sports; sometimes you end up in much harder groups than other times. Sometimes the same team will end up in a tough group 2, 3 or 4 years in a row.
On February 26 2022 05:47 JJH777 wrote: Groups with fixed positions for each seed announced in advance would be ideal.
Without any sort of randomization you incentivize people to throw certain matches late in the season to end up in a certain group. Personally that's something I want to avoid in Starcraft.
On February 26 2022 05:27 koalabro wrote: This is why we need transparency into how the groups are decided. This is what most likely happened:
ESL put Serral in the hands down easiest group there can be, and put him in an earlier day. Then put people like Maru and Reynor in the last group knowing they will play long games and they'll be tired. This gives Serral rest time and time to observe Maru and Reynor. They are gonna be extremely tired the next day and Serral will capitalize on that. Honestly. All of the groups should have been played at the same time.
You have no proof. You pull stuff from your ass. Can you please stop? You are an idiot.
With no group setup transparency from ESL, all I can do is speculate.
Do you have any skills in critical thinking? You say that your opinion is most likely the right one, but offer no evidence. You are literally just talking nonsense. Lets say that you were taking a test and got everything correct. Your teachers still fails you, because he/she had no evidence on you not cheating. Same logic as you are using.
On February 26 2022 05:27 koalabro wrote: This is why we need transparency into how the groups are decided. This is what most likely happened:
ESL put Serral in the hands down easiest group there can be, and put him in an earlier day. Then put people like Maru and Reynor in the last group knowing they will play long games and they'll be tired. This gives Serral rest time and time to observe Maru and Reynor. They are gonna be extremely tired the next day and Serral will capitalize on that. Honestly. All of the groups should have been played at the same time.
You have no proof. You pull stuff from your ass. Can you please stop? You are an idiot.
With no group setup transparency from ESL, all I can do is speculate.
Do you have any skills in critical thinking? You say that your opinion is most likely the right one, but offer no evidence. You are literally just talking nonsense. Lets say that you were taking a test and got everything correct. Your teachers still fails you, because he/she had no evidence on you not cheating. Same logic as you are using.
I believe it. ESL knows how important it is for Serral to get first. Not in terms of audience hype but in terms of his emotional well-being and self-esteem. Because silver medal is bad, and if you are third you are absolutely awful, if you're fourth you're completely useless. Only winning matters, that's the Finnish attitude
On February 26 2022 05:27 koalabro wrote: This is why we need transparency into how the groups are decided. This is what most likely happened:
ESL put Serral in the hands down easiest group there can be, and put him in an earlier day. Then put people like Maru and Reynor in the last group knowing they will play long games and they'll be tired. This gives Serral rest time and time to observe Maru and Reynor. They are gonna be extremely tired the next day and Serral will capitalize on that. Honestly. All of the groups should have been played at the same time.
You have no proof. You pull stuff from your ass. Can you please stop? You are an idiot.
With no group setup transparency from ESL, all I can do is speculate.
Do you have any skills in critical thinking? You say that your opinion is most likely the right one, but offer no evidence. You are literally just talking nonsense. Lets say that you were taking a test and got everything correct. Your teachers still fails you, because he/she had no evidence on you not cheating. Same logic as you are using.
I believe it. ESL knows how important it is for Serral to get first. Not in terms of audience hype but in terms of his emotional well-being and self-esteem. Because silver medal is bad, and if you are third you are absolutely awful, if you're fourth you're completely useless. Only winning matters, that's the Finnish attitude
I was just about to go off on you until you quoted that. Well played, sir.
On February 26 2022 05:27 koalabro wrote: This is why we need transparency into how the groups are decided. This is what most likely happened:
ESL put Serral in the hands down easiest group there can be, and put him in an earlier day. Then put people like Maru and Reynor in the last group knowing they will play long games and they'll be tired. This gives Serral rest time and time to observe Maru and Reynor. They are gonna be extremely tired the next day and Serral will capitalize on that. Honestly. All of the groups should have been played at the same time.
You have no proof. You pull stuff from your ass. Can you please stop? You are an idiot.
With no group setup transparency from ESL, all I can do is speculate.
Do you have any skills in critical thinking? You say that your opinion is most likely the right one, but offer no evidence. You are literally just talking nonsense. Lets say that you were taking a test and got everything correct. Your teachers still fails you, because he/she had no evidence on you not cheating. Same logic as you are using.
I believe it. ESL knows how important it is for Serral to get first. Not in terms of audience hype but in terms of his emotional well-being and self-esteem. Because silver medal is bad, and if you are third you are absolutely awful, if you're fourth you're completely useless. Only winning matters, that's the Finnish attitude
I was just about to go off on you until you quoted that. Well played, sir.
Actually my favorite SC2 quote in a long time.
Clem looking good vs. Zoun. Byun will be a tough match but I'll be impressed if he can get himself into a decider match after losing his first 5 games and pulling the sixth one out of his ass
On February 26 2022 05:41 EquilasH wrote: If you just look at the seeding of EPT points it looks pretty clear to me how groups are decided?
1-4 are all in different groups. 5-8 are in different groups. 9-12 are in different groups 13-16 are in different groups.
Hopefully it's completely randomized from there. This is never gonna leave us with perfect groups but no system is.
It is, but for 2 years in a row the draw results are lopesided
As I said, no system is gonna leave us with perfect groups.
Edit: This is the same for all sports; sometimes you end up in much harder groups than other times. Sometimes the same team will end up in a tough group 2, 3 or 4 years in a row.
Especially with such a clear gap between the 4 horsemen of Zerg, Maru and the next step down. It’s really difficult to make that fair. That’s my S class anyway
Go by EPT points and fully transparently people will still moan, because oh Trap is actually 3rd seed and apparently trash, so one or more group will 100% have more than one of that top group in it.
There’s too much one has to discount IMO to consider these groups particularly unfair.
Pesky things like, Zest and Trap actually winning tournaments the past year and being quite good for example. Or how the Korean tournies went
On February 26 2022 05:47 JJH777 wrote: Groups with fixed positions for each seed announced in advance would be ideal.
Without any sort of randomization you incentivize people to throw certain matches late in the season to end up in a certain group. Personally that's something I want to avoid in Starcraft.
I agree
Which is why I suggested drawing it so that the same ranked player within each tier will end up in different groups
e.g. Group A: 1 8 11 14 Group B: 2 5 12 15 Group C: 3 6 9 16 Group D: 4 7 10 13
Then 17-20 will be drawn into the groups randomly, and those from the Ro36 will be paired with them according to points
On February 26 2022 05:41 EquilasH wrote: If you just look at the seeding of EPT points it looks pretty clear to me how groups are decided?
1-4 are all in different groups. 5-8 are in different groups. 9-12 are in different groups 13-16 are in different groups.
Hopefully it's completely randomized from there. This is never gonna leave us with perfect groups but no system is.
It is, but for 2 years in a row the draw results are lopesided
As I said, no system is gonna leave us with perfect groups.
Edit: This is the same for all sports; sometimes you end up in much harder groups than other times. Sometimes the same team will end up in a tough group 2, 3 or 4 years in a row.
Especially with such a clear gap between the 4 horsemen of Zerg, Maru and the next step down. It’s really difficult to make that fair. That’s my S class anyway
Go by EPT points and fully transparently people will still moan, because oh Trap is actually 3rd seed and apparently trash, so one or more group will 100% have more than one of that top group in it.
There’s too much one has to discount IMO to consider these groups particularly unfair.
Pesky things like, Zest and Trap actually winning tournaments the past year and being quite good for example. Or how the Korean tournies went
I can only agree. I really hope we have some Protoss players coming up though because if I understood the interviews on the main stream correctly this might be both Zest and Trap's last international tournament.
On February 26 2022 05:47 JJH777 wrote: Groups with fixed positions for each seed announced in advance would be ideal.
Without any sort of randomization you incentivize people to throw certain matches late in the season to end up in a certain group. Personally that's something I want to avoid in Starcraft.
I agree
Which is why I suggested drawing it so that the same ranked player within each tier will end up in different groups
e.g. Group A: 1 8 11 14 Group B: 2 5 12 15 Group C: 3 6 9 16 Group D: 4 7 10 13
Then 17-20 will be drawn into the groups randomly, and those from the Ro36 will be paired with them according to points
How does that disincentivize the #7 seed trying to get to 8th on EPT points if it looks like group D will be harder for example?
Edit: I guess we should make a separate thread if we want to continue with this.
On February 26 2022 05:47 JJH777 wrote: Groups with fixed positions for each seed announced in advance would be ideal.
Without any sort of randomization you incentivize people to throw certain matches late in the season to end up in a certain group. Personally that's something I want to avoid in Starcraft.
This is the common thought but I disagree. For one seeds are constantly changing until the actual last event so it would really only be an issue there. Is someone really going to give up a chance to win $10k at Last Chance for a better IEM group? I doubt it.
On February 26 2022 05:47 JJH777 wrote: Groups with fixed positions for each seed announced in advance would be ideal.
Without any sort of randomization you incentivize people to throw certain matches late in the season to end up in a certain group. Personally that's something I want to avoid in Starcraft.
This is the common thought but I disagree. For one seeds are constantly changing until the actual last event so it would really only be an issue there. Is someone really going to give up a chance to win $10k at Last Chance for a better IEM group? I doubt it.
You have ESL cups that grant 10, 5 and 2 points with prize differentials of $100 between 1st and 2nd place. Those points could've been the difference between 15th and 16th seed this season. I don't think a lot of players would try to abuse this system even if they had the chance to but my point is that it incentivizes just that. I'm gonna leave this discussion at that.
On February 26 2022 05:47 JJH777 wrote: Groups with fixed positions for each seed announced in advance would be ideal.
Without any sort of randomization you incentivize people to throw certain matches late in the season to end up in a certain group. Personally that's something I want to avoid in Starcraft.
I agree
Which is why I suggested drawing it so that the same ranked player within each tier will end up in different groups
e.g. Group A: 1 8 11 14 Group B: 2 5 12 15 Group C: 3 6 9 16 Group D: 4 7 10 13
Then 17-20 will be drawn into the groups randomly, and those from the Ro36 will be paired with them according to points
How does that disincentivize the #7 seed trying to get to 8th on EPT points if it looks like group D will be harder for example?
Edit: I guess we should make a separate thread if we want to continue with this.
That is just an example, the idea is that every group gets a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th from each tier
On February 26 2022 06:15 Gina wrote: Have they even tried distributing stage time fairly in this group?
I don't think they were going to do Byun-Reynor this time. Only went that way because Scarlett Clem was way over-schedule and so Byun Reynor was the only one available.
On February 26 2022 05:47 JJH777 wrote: Groups with fixed positions for each seed announced in advance would be ideal.
Without any sort of randomization you incentivize people to throw certain matches late in the season to end up in a certain group. Personally that's something I want to avoid in Starcraft.
This is the common thought but I disagree. For one seeds are constantly changing until the actual last event so it would really only be an issue there. Is someone really going to give up a chance to win $10k at Last Chance for a better IEM group? I doubt it.
You have ESL cups that grant 10, 5 and 2 points with prize differentials of $100 between 1st and 2nd place. Those points could've been the difference between 15th and 16th seed this season. I don't think a lot of players would try to abuse this system even if they had the chance to but my point is that it incentivizes just that. I'm gonna leave this discussion at that.
This is a completely different argument though because initially you said it would cause players to throw. If they don't want open cup points they just won't play in them. If it effecting open cups is really the best argument then I think the transparency of that system is a worthwhile trade.
On February 26 2022 05:47 JJH777 wrote: Groups with fixed positions for each seed announced in advance would be ideal.
Without any sort of randomization you incentivize people to throw certain matches late in the season to end up in a certain group. Personally that's something I want to avoid in Starcraft.
This is the common thought but I disagree. For one seeds are constantly changing until the actual last event so it would really only be an issue there. Is someone really going to give up a chance to win $10k at Last Chance for a better IEM group? I doubt it.
You have ESL cups that grant 10, 5 and 2 points with prize differentials of $100 between 1st and 2nd place. Those points could've been the difference between 15th and 16th seed this season. I don't think a lot of players would try to abuse this system even if they had the chance to but my point is that it incentivizes just that. I'm gonna leave this discussion at that.
This is a completely different argument though because initially you said it would cause players to throw. If they don't want open cup points they just won't play in them. If it effecting open cups is really the best argument then I think the transparency of that system is a worthwhile trade.
I accidentally quoted your post and posted it so I guess I'm gonna answer anyway with an edit. You're right that it's a different argument but depending on how hard of a group a player thinks they're going to get at IEM I could see someone prefer getting 2nd over a 1st place in one of the slightly bigger tournaments.
2nd edit: Also I prefer if the system incentivizes people to get as high of a seed as possible even if it means playing open ESL cups.
On February 26 2022 06:28 TheLordofAwesome wrote: Uhhh, Trap says in response to "what's something most people don't know about you" question that "this tournament will probably be my last."
On February 26 2022 06:30 geokilla wrote: That feeling when not even progamers can buy a house in Canada or Korea.
*Even* pro-gamers? As if pro-gamers generally have such a good paycheck? I mean... winning IEM Katowice *should* give you a pretty good downpayment, but it also depends how much goes to the player and how much to the team, taxes, etc...
I never check the player cams, so after it was mentioned that Zoun hasn't appeared on the main screen yet, I looked down and immediately wondered why it looked like there was a hostile-looking man standing behind them .
On February 26 2022 06:28 TheLordofAwesome wrote: Uhhh, Trap says in response to "what's something most people don't know about you" question that "this tournament will probably be my last."
I wasn't aware of this!
the caption was bit inaccurate cause he said "last INTERNATIONAL tournament." But it does seem like military is coming sooner rather than later, in any case.
I wouldnt be surprised if Trap is feeling discouraged and doesn't want to put off military service because he doesn't believe hes going to win tournaments much.
On February 26 2022 06:44 [PkF] Wire wrote: ok so it's just Clem - Zoun in the end. Some great games but not the best group suspense and volatility wise
On February 26 2022 06:44 [PkF] Wire wrote: ok so it's just Clem - Zoun in the end. Some great games but not the best group suspense and volatility wise
In news far less interesting than the possibility of a second Protoss making the Ro12, it seems Reynor has 5-0ed the group of death, which is an impressive showing.
On February 26 2022 07:07 Fanatic-Templar wrote: In news far less interesting than the possibility of a second Protoss making the Ro12, it seems Reynor has 5-0ed the group of death, which is an impressive showing.
On February 26 2022 07:06 Brutaxilos wrote: Is Maru safe?
Yeah, Maru's definitely in. I think he's locked to second, even.
So Trap is sure to get one of Maru, Dark, or Rogue?
I have a feeling we might have a 0 toss ro8
Trap can beat them.
He probably won't, but he can.
yes Trap can absolutely beat anyone in the ro8 so as to disappoint everyone even harder when he completely collapses in the semifinals/finals
Yeah, with every successive round, the odds of Protoss surviving goes down.
which is true for any race until you get to a situation with only one race, isn't it ?
Objectively, yes you are correct .
But I personally feel that Protoss is most volatile and suffers most from a larger number of games. I haven't checked the data to see if this is corroborated though.
On February 26 2022 07:06 Brutaxilos wrote: Is Maru safe?
Yeah, Maru's definitely in. I think he's locked to second, even.
So Trap is sure to get one of Maru, Dark, or Rogue?
I have a feeling we might have a 0 toss ro8
Trap can beat them.
He probably won't, but he can.
yes Trap can absolutely beat anyone in the ro8 so as to disappoint everyone even harder when he completely collapses in the semifinals/finals
Yeah, with every successive round, the odds of Protoss surviving goes down.
which is true for any race until you get to a situation with only one race, isn't it ?
Objectively, yes you are correct .
But I personally feel that Protoss is most volatile and suffers most from a larger number of games. I haven't checked the data to see if this is corroborated though.
I actually have the same feeling, but it's just a feeling, I have no data to back up my statement
On February 26 2022 07:30 EquilasH wrote: Zoun played really well this series. I'm afraid he's going to struggle if he gets Rogue or Dark for the Ro12 though.
He's taken big series off of them in the past. Doing it at IEM Katowice and without much prep time is a different matter, but it's not impossible.
surprisingly aggressive play from Maru today. Usually he turtles behind PFs and the DTs don't do much, this time he went aggressive and died to DTs. Same pattern vs Reynor where he played aggressive on Hardwire and lost his economy vs ling bane
On February 26 2022 07:31 Charoisaur wrote: surprisingly aggressive play from Maru today. Usually he turtles behind PFs and the DTs don't do much, this time he went aggressive and died to DTs. Same pattern vs Reynor where he played aggressive on Hardwire and lost his economy vs ling bane
I guess he knew he was 2nd whatever happened, I'm unsure he used his best cards (for the TvP, he has to have played the TvZ at 100%)
On February 26 2022 07:30 EquilasH wrote: Zoun played really well this series. I'm afraid he's going to struggle if he gets Rogue or Dark for the Ro12 though.
He's taken big series off of them in the past. Doing it at IEM Katowice and without much prep time is a different matter, but it's not impossible.
That's comforting to be honest. Either way I'm hyped for the next round.
good bracket. Rogue has a very good shot at the semis. Dark / Trap / Reynor is very open, HM / Zoun / Solar will be the unexpected semifinalist and we could have a Maru / Serral for a place in the ro4. I like it !
On February 26 2022 07:34 Zambrah wrote: Even if we lose Trap and Zest forever, at least we'll have Zoun.
Zoun's going to have to win a premier before I feel happy trusting him with the fate of Protoss . Hard enough already, relying on Trap and Zest.
If you're like me and assume a bleak fate no matter what, Zoun starts to at least look like a small light in the dark that will let you watch Super Tournament sometimes. :p
On February 26 2022 07:38 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Zoun/Heromarine/Solar is actually a fairly weak bracket there.
weak is a very harsh word, let's say the semifinalist coming from this part of the bracket will be unexpected while we'll lose at least one of Maru / Serral, two of Trap / Reynor / Dark etc
On February 26 2022 07:38 Charoisaur wrote: so it's Maru or ZvZvZvZvZvZ
It was clear that Zerg will win the IEM, they don't break the streak now. The question only was who will be the zerg. Like c'mon, don't pretend otherwise.
On February 26 2022 07:38 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Zoun/Heromarine/Solar is actually a fairly weak bracket there.
weak is a very harsh word, let's say the semifinalist coming from this part of the bracket will be unexpected while we'll lose at least one of Maru / Serral, two of Trap / Reynor / Dark etc
As a fan of both underdogs and Protoss, I'm all in on top half bracket :D.
Ill put money on either Rogue or Reynor to win, Reynor looks exceptional atm and Rogue has the ideal bracket. Serral and Dark have a chance too and fuck me thats all Zergs, lol.
On February 26 2022 07:38 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Zoun/Heromarine/Solar is actually a fairly weak bracket there.
weak is a very harsh word, let's say the semifinalist coming from this part of the bracket will be unexpected while we'll lose at least one of Maru / Serral, two of Trap / Reynor / Dark etc
As a fan of both underdogs and Protoss, I'm all in on top half bracket :D.
Seems like a good bracket for Rogue, but it's conceivable that either of the Terrans could take him out and go to the semis.
Actually feels like a slightly harder bracket for Reynor, as his TvZ has looked unstoppable, while ZvZ is a bit more volatile by nature and by his own admission PvZ is his hardest matchup. If Trap can take out Dark he has about as good a shot as anyone against Reynor imo.
Obviously everyone will be looking at the Maru-Serral bracket.
On February 26 2022 07:42 Zambrah wrote: Ill put money on either Rogue or Reynor to win, Reynor looks exceptional atm and Rogue has the ideal bracket. Serral and Dark have a chance too and fuck me thats all Zergs, lol.
On February 26 2022 07:38 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Zoun/Heromarine/Solar is actually a fairly weak bracket there.
weak is a very harsh word, let's say the semifinalist coming from this part of the bracket will be unexpected while we'll lose at least one of Maru / Serral, two of Trap / Reynor / Dark etc
As a fan of both underdogs and Protoss, I'm all in on top half bracket :D.
You have good taste
As a person who gets up two hours after the broadcast starts, I am also going to miss those games, so fuck me I guess .
It's gonna be business as usual, the last Protoss hope will stand alone against the Swarm and get absolutely dumpstered in 30 minutes even if they get to the finals.
Best case scenario for Maru is Solar emerges from the upper bracket - which isn't impossible. Then it's mostly just Maru vs. Serral/Rogue to take the (easier) finals. He's done it before!
On February 26 2022 07:47 Elentos wrote: It's gonna be business as usual, the last Protoss hope will stand alone against the Swarm and get absolutely dumpstered in 30 minutes even if they get to the finals.
oh man I'm getting terrible flashbacks just imagining another Protoss vs Zerg final
On February 26 2022 07:47 Elentos wrote: It's gonna be business as usual, the last Protoss hope will stand alone against the Swarm and get absolutely dumpstered in 30 minutes even if they get to the finals.
oh man I'm getting terrible flashbacks just imagining another Protoss vs Zerg final
I don't want it to happen, but Rogue 4-1 Trap in the finals with a bunch of queen walks would be very funny.
On February 26 2022 07:51 EquilasH wrote: I'm hoping for a Reynor vs Maru finals with 7 games and either one winning. Could see it happening too.
it's possible and that would be great. But Dark has huge Korean pride, if he gets through Trap he'll have extra motivation vs Reynor. That's why I predicted 3-2 for Dark in that scenario. But we'll see
On February 26 2022 07:51 EquilasH wrote: I'm hoping for a Reynor vs Maru finals with 7 games and either one winning. Could see it happening too.
it's possible and that would be great. But Dark has huge Korean pride, if he gets through Trap he'll have extra motivation vs Reynor. That's why I predicted 3-2 for Dark in that scenario. But we'll see
Yeah I definitely think Dark has a good chance vs Reynor if they meet in quarters. Probably even above 50% - I much prefer Reynor's TvZ to Dark's though.
On February 26 2022 04:08 Elentos wrote: The fact that it says "DEATH, AND THE WORLDS ENDING" above the ticker bar for the entirety of every break on the B stream doesn't seem very sensitive to me.
I'll address this - I was thinking of the LOTR quote (theoden riding) pairing with the group of death and the final day of group stages. In the chaos of everything else, the real world implications didn't cross my mind and I changed it when I realized. Very sorry about that, will do better next time! I absolutely support the plight of the people of Ukraine and am horrified by what is happening.
On February 26 2022 04:08 Elentos wrote: The fact that it says "DEATH, AND THE WORLDS ENDING" above the ticker bar for the entirety of every break on the B stream doesn't seem very sensitive to me.
I'll address this - I was thinking of the LOTR quote (theoden riding) pairing with the group of death and the final day of group stages. In the chaos of everything else, the real world implications didn't cross my mind and I changed it when I realized. Very sorry about that, will do better next time! I absolutely support the plight of the people of Ukraine and am horrified by what is happening.
I really hope there will be a non zerg player in Spodek Sunday! Very sad for Clem, and since I didn’t have much battery / data left I could not really see most of his matches. They showed too much Reynor in main stage and not enough Clem, as the reigning world champion and a crowd entertainer I understand but Clem has dominated the EU region this season, feels bad not to have him interviewed at least once… Maru looked so tired against Zoun before the match, if he somehow makes it to Sunday ro4 alive he has a decent shot playing « early »
On February 26 2022 07:51 EquilasH wrote: I'm hoping for a Reynor vs Maru finals with 7 games and either one winning. Could see it happening too.
If Maru gets to the finals(which I seriously doubt) it will be most probably after 2 TvZs. At that point - unless Trap or Zoun make a miracle - he's gonna lose simply to the fact that the Zerg saw the games and prepared properly.
So the best possible finals may be Maru v P, otherwise it will be a shitshow - ZvZ, ZvP where Protoss revealed builds or ZvT where Terran revealed builds.
On February 26 2022 07:51 EquilasH wrote: I'm hoping for a Reynor vs Maru finals with 7 games and either one winning. Could see it happening too.
If Maru gets to the finals(which I seriously doubt) it will be most probably after 2 TvZs. At that point - unless Trap or Zoun make a miracle - he's gonna lose simply to the fact that the Zerg saw the games and prepared properly.
So the best possible finals may be Maru v P, otherwise it will be a shitshow - ZvZ, ZvP where Protoss revealed builds or ZvT where Terran revealed builds.
What are you talking about? Maru is a skill base player not a BO base. Moreover he is a Terran, not Protoss that has to surprises the Zerg by gimmick builds. His TvZ is turtle late game and everyone knows that no matter what.
On February 26 2022 07:51 EquilasH wrote: I'm hoping for a Reynor vs Maru finals with 7 games and either one winning. Could see it happening too.
If Maru gets to the finals(which I seriously doubt) it will be most probably after 2 TvZs. At that point - unless Trap or Zoun make a miracle - he's gonna lose simply to the fact that the Zerg saw the games and prepared properly.
So the best possible finals may be Maru v P, otherwise it will be a shitshow - ZvZ, ZvP where Protoss revealed builds or ZvT where Terran revealed builds.
What are you talking about? Maru is a skill base player not a BO base. Moreover he is a Terran, not Protoss that has to surprises the Zerg by gimmick builds. His TvZ is turtle late game and everyone knows that no matter what.
He can also heavily push you with the kind of cutthroat tempo push style that Clem had such success with against Serral and Reynor in EU. Honestly I haven’t seen him play it [i]quite[\i] as well as some of those Clem TvZ clinics, but he’s certainly capable of it.
There’s nothing to stop Maru, if he plays well. Maybe in a Bo3 build intersections can play a part but when we’re getting to Bo5+
As you say, builds are never not important, but in TvZ it’s a game of execution and tactical manouvering and raw mechanics. Especially given it’s a weekend tournaments.
TY showcased some killer builds and smart timings in his latter GSL runs, you can play that way, but you need time.
I fear Ryung doesn’t quite have the necessary prep time to compensate for his relative lack of mechanics compared to Rogue and will get absolutely butchered but hoping he can make a series of it.
On February 26 2022 05:14 Pandain wrote: Guys this scarlett clem game is actually insane too
IMO this was candidate for best sc2 game of all time. This had everything. action-packed back and forth that came down to the tiniest margins at the end.
I recommend everyone to check out the VOD on catz's stream.
On February 26 2022 07:51 EquilasH wrote: I'm hoping for a Reynor vs Maru finals with 7 games and either one winning. Could see it happening too.
If Maru gets to the finals(which I seriously doubt) it will be most probably after 2 TvZs. At that point - unless Trap or Zoun make a miracle - he's gonna lose simply to the fact that the Zerg saw the games and prepared properly.
So the best possible finals may be Maru v P, otherwise it will be a shitshow - ZvZ, ZvP where Protoss revealed builds or ZvT where Terran revealed builds.
What are you talking about? Maru is a skill base player not a BO base. Moreover he is a Terran, not Protoss that has to surprises the Zerg by gimmick builds. His TvZ is turtle late game and everyone knows that no matter what.
Yeah, I dont think that would be an issue neither, seeing how Maru went through 3 Zergs to win KoB2. While its true that Maru would probably exhaust all of his opening against Zerg in that case, his execution of the build is still second to none and still force lots of scouting and reaction from the opponent. I mean its just ridiculous how Reynor was abusing Clem in their match, and I know Clem definitely isnt at his best, like it was against Dream or something, with 6-7 minutes of creep cover 70% of the map and never looking back. On the other hand, Maru slow down the creep spread like a lot and even when the creep cover was large, like in game 3, Maru just knew how to slowly expand and defend all the position. Its like the only way you can break Maru is to do a surprise tech-switch (like BLord morph) or Maru making the mistake himself handing the momentum over.
I fear Ryung doesn’t quite have the necessary prep time to compensate for his relative lack of mechanics compared to Rogue and will get absolutely butchered but hoping he can make a series of it.
Rouge has struggled with Bunny lately, I would be more surprised if Rogue makes it past the two Terrans here.
I fear Ryung doesn’t quite have the necessary prep time to compensate for his relative lack of mechanics compared to Rogue and will get absolutely butchered but hoping he can make a series of it.
Rouge has struggled with Bunny lately, I would be more surprised if Rogue makes it past the two Terrans here.
Bunny is well, good. I’ve seen him put out some great TvZs the last year. He’s not spectacular mechanically, he’s not a strategic genius but he’s really good at the game.
He’s never made that huge deep run or tournament win, but he exists on that tier where he can conceivably beat the vast majority of players in any given series.
Not to disparage Ryung, he’s a TvT positioning maestro and he’s pulled out some wonders in TvP this tournament.
I just don’t think mechanically he can go toe to toe with Rogue in a Bo5. Maybe if it was a GSL and the prep of builds was a factor. GSL TY was a considerably different beast from weekender TY in TvZ in his last span, and I think Ryung is a player with similar strengths but even more weakness
On February 26 2022 05:14 Pandain wrote: Guys this scarlett clem game is actually insane too
IMO this was candidate for best sc2 game of all time. This had everything. action-packed back and forth that came down to the tiniest margins at the end.
I recommend everyone to check out the VOD on catz's stream.
I disagree, not even top3 of this tourney. Scarlett was never in a dominating position, nor Clem. There wasn't any big back and forth's of power balance. It was mostly a tight balance for maybe 10 minutes.
On February 26 2022 08:30 Poopi wrote: I really hope there will be a non zerg player in Spodek Sunday! Very sad for Clem, and since I didn’t have much battery / data left I could not really see most of his matches. They showed too much Reynor in main stage and not enough Clem, as the reigning world champion and a crowd entertainer I understand but Clem has dominated the EU region this season, feels bad not to have him interviewed at least once… Maru looked so tired against Zoun before the match, if he somehow makes it to Sunday ro4 alive he has a decent shot playing « early »
Reynor was on the main stage twice. Clem once. But he lost that match (to Reynor) and didn't get interviewed. Clem-Maru on the mainstage would also have made sense, but I think we would then not have had Byun on the mainstage at all, which also wouldn't be fair. And, of course also wouldn't have given you a Clem interview
On February 26 2022 08:30 Poopi wrote: I really hope there will be a non zerg player in Spodek Sunday! Very sad for Clem, and since I didn’t have much battery / data left I could not really see most of his matches. They showed too much Reynor in main stage and not enough Clem, as the reigning world champion and a crowd entertainer I understand but Clem has dominated the EU region this season, feels bad not to have him interviewed at least once… Maru looked so tired against Zoun before the match, if he somehow makes it to Sunday ro4 alive he has a decent shot playing « early »
Reynor was on the main stage twice. Clem once. But he lost that match (to Reynor) and didn't get interviewed. Clem-Maru on the mainstage would also have made sense, but I think we would then not have had Byun on the mainstage at all, which also wouldn't be fair. And, of course also wouldn't have given you a Clem interview
Reynor was on MainStage vs Clem, Maru and ByuN so three times. ByuN would have been on MainStage vs Reynor so it’s probably more about Scarlett who was only there for the initial match vs ByuN, and Zoun for the last match versus Maru.
On February 26 2022 05:14 Pandain wrote: Guys this scarlett clem game is actually insane too
IMO this was candidate for best sc2 game of all time. This had everything. action-packed back and forth that came down to the tiniest margins at the end.
I recommend everyone to check out the VOD on catz's stream.
I disagree, not even top3 of this tourney. Scarlett was never in a dominating position, nor Clem. There wasn't any big back and forth's of power balance. It was mostly a tight balance for maybe 10 minutes.
Do you prefer games where one player is 99-1 and then loses it? Those games in my book aren't close but rather throws. Throws can be fun and entertaining but in my opinion doesn't belong in all-time greatest games lists.
I loved this game exactly for the reason you mentioned; it was super close throughout the entire game with mostly just small advantages being exchanged and constant actions. Further, it had changing dynamics/unit compositions and a nail-biting and ridiculous end-phase.
I also think Spirit vs Nice game 2 and game 5 were very entertaining. Probably some of he most fun TvPs I watched in a long time - for similar reasons - the games were just really close and action-packed. So many potential tipping-points throughout the games.
On February 26 2022 07:51 EquilasH wrote: I'm hoping for a Reynor vs Maru finals with 7 games and either one winning. Could see it happening too.
If Maru gets to the finals(which I seriously doubt) it will be most probably after 2 TvZs. At that point - unless Trap or Zoun make a miracle - he's gonna lose simply to the fact that the Zerg saw the games and prepared properly.
So the best possible finals may be Maru v P, otherwise it will be a shitshow - ZvZ, ZvP where Protoss revealed builds or ZvT where Terran revealed builds.
What are you talking about? Maru is a skill base player not a BO base. Moreover he is a Terran, not Protoss that has to surprises the Zerg by gimmick builds. His TvZ is turtle late game and everyone knows that no matter what.
Maru does a lot of timing openings on maps which are worse for the split map situations. If you run of them you're in a big troubles. You cannot split every map and play from there in this map pool.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/mmCuuhG.png)
Trap, 
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now Zest and Trap are in danger wtf is happening LUL
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/1jdGPyi.png)
