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Charoisaur
Germany16085 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:13 Bagration wrote: I love how the casters are trying to sidestep the imbalance of queens lol - very well done yeah they did the same with Mines and Marines | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:15 stilt wrote: Yes, I particulary like their ability to counter attack thanks to their insane mobility offcreep We got the German taxi to fix that problem | ||
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Sif_
Brazil3106 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:15 stilt wrote: Yes, I particulary like their ability to counter attack thanks to their insane mobility offcreep Thats your counter to 'queens are too strong'? lol, i guess that just proves the point | ||
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stilt
France2755 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:17 Sif_ wrote: Thats your counter to 'queens are too strong'? lol, i guess that just proves the point I don't need any counters to your stupid hyperbolic statement. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:15 stilt wrote: Yes, I particulary like their ability to counter attack thanks to their insane mobility offcreep This. Sure, they are strong defensively. Sort of expected if you're putting 1.5K minerals and 20 supply into a unit with low DPS that isn't crossing the map. | ||
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Sif_
Brazil3106 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:19 stilt wrote: I don't need any counters to your stupid hyperbolic statement. Yet, you did try, huh.... | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:19 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: This. Sure, they are strong defensively. Sort of expected if you're putting 1.5K minerals and 20 supply into a unit with low DPS that isn't crossing the map. But a unit that is too strong defensively destroys the balance of the game nevertheless. Zerg by design is a reactive race - the player needs balance when to drone vs. when to make units. The queen allows the Zerg to drone with limited fear - making queens doesn't require gas or even larva. As a result, nowadays there's no point to the early game - short of a full-on bunker rush / proxy rax / cannon rush / other cheese, it's just macro until the mid / late game, since queens can handle most types of attacks (or at least buy enough time for a round of lings) | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:24 Bagration wrote: But a unit that is too strong defensively destroys the balance of the game nevertheless. Zerg by design is a reactive race - the player needs balance when to drone vs. when to make units. The queen allows the Zerg to drone with limited fear - making queens doesn't require gas or even larva. As a result, nowadays there's no point to the early game - short of a full-on bunker rush / proxy rax / cannon rush / other cheese, it's just macro until the mid / late game, since queens can handle most types of attacks (or at least buy enough time for a round of lings) That's not true though--zerg players do still routinely die in the early midgame to tank pushes and whatnot. | ||
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stilt
France2755 Posts
If you consider my ironic reaction as a counter point, it's maybe you're just no very sure that queens are actually good at everything. | ||
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irvnasty
United States211 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46243 Posts
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irvnasty
United States211 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Yeah Dark! That's one! Two more! Three more. It's Bo7.  | ||
Waxangel
United States33665 Posts
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
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stilt
France2755 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:27 ZigguratOfUr wrote: That's not true though--zerg players do still routinely die in the early midgame to tank pushes and whatnot. But that's more of the mid-game IMO - the early game is basically dead unless a player decides to cheese. I'm talking marine / marauder vs. ling-bling-roach - tier 1 vs. tier 1 units Maybe I'm becoming overly nostalgic, but I did prefer the variety of having both long macro games AND games with early aggro. I think the trend has been to make defense super easy (e.g., queens, shield batteries) so that there's more long macro games because back in 2010-2011, those were the super cool epic games. But when every game is a longer macro game that goes into the late game, it doesn't feel as special anymore. Just my 2 cents - maybe I'm being too much of an old-timer ;p | ||
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irvnasty
United States211 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:32 Bagration wrote: But that's more of the mid-game IMO - the early game is basically dead unless a player decides to cheese. I'm talking marine / marauder vs. ling-bling-roach - tier 1 vs. tier 1 units Maybe I'm becoming overly nostalgic, but I did prefer the variety of having both long macro games AND games with early aggro. I think the trend has been to make defense super easy (e.g., queens, shield batteries) so that there's more long macro games because back in 2010-2011, those were the super cool epic games. But when every game is a longer macro game that goes into the late game, it doesn't feel as special anymore. Just my 2 cents - maybe I'm being too much of an old-timer ;p This was what was lost with 12 worker start in LotV. All the pro players love 12 worker start because they waste less time with slow starts, and it's certainly nice to have less downtime during standard games. But there were a lot more opportunities to throw a wrench in the gears early with 6 worker starts. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 21 2020 08:32 Bagration wrote: But that's more of the mid-game IMO - the early game is basically dead unless a player decides to cheese. I'm talking marine / marauder vs. ling-bling-roach - tier 1 vs. tier 1 units Maybe I'm becoming overly nostalgic, but I did prefer the variety of having both long macro games AND games with early aggro. I think the trend has been to make defense super easy (e.g., queens, shield batteries) so that there's more long macro games because back in 2010-2011, those were the super cool epic games. But when every game is a longer macro game that goes into the late game, it doesn't feel as special anymore. Just my 2 cents - maybe I'm being too much of an old-timer ;p That's not something queens did though--that's the 12 worker start. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46243 Posts
Yay more games! | ||
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stilt
France2755 Posts
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